Tol-in-Gaurhoth XX: Wereorc I: The elves cannot hide themselves much longer.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Originally Posted by Roa_Aoife

Legolas,
Why are you voting for Diamond? Can you have posts thatare more than a sentence? We need reasoned argumentments, not random statements. Try to be useful to the village.

Yes, I agree, and also, Legolas, you posted that your vote was for Diamond, and was located within your last post. Your last post was this:

I guess she is a bit peculiar. I posted. Dunno if I'm too late.

Assuming you didn't delete the post in question, there's something that needs to be explained.

When you're voting, you need to put the person's name behind two plus signs, and leave that in its own line. Like this:

++your vote's name here

Except that you need to put it in bold face, which I didn't do here, in order not to generate confusion about was my vote example actually real.

You also need to give some explanation, preferably with examples or some other kind of evidence in order to back up your vote (otherwise, people just think you're suspicious).

For instance, here's some suspicion for you right now. Your behavior sends up some red flags, Legolas. One-liner posts are not particularly helpful. They don't do much to further the rest of the group's understanding of you. Voting without proof or explanation of any kind is to be suspected, so be careful. So I'm going to help you out here: Why do you suspect Diamond? Can you give us any examples of her behavior that sent up red flags for you?

Please don't take this post as a personal attack. I know you're new at this, and that you were confused yesterDay, so I'm trying to help you out. I'm willing to cut you some slack, depending on how you play for today, but it may not last.

[Nogrod]

This seems really getting intresting... and my time is zero!

I'm trying to join you as soon as I can!

Just a short note to Caran

Originally Posted by Caranlondien

Nogrod makes good points, but he also makes me uneasy. Are you suggesting that without well-founded suspicions to go on, we should lynch the quiet people? I can see some of the appeal. It's true, what you said, that quiet people get more and more dangerous as the game goes on. But that's also the sort of plan a bunch of loud orcs would want.

Not it isn't. Orcs love those who do nothing, they are easy prey, and not worth killing during the night: the gifteds and the good players are their primary night-targets... during the daytime good players fight back, during the night they can't.


And Jenny: thank's for your kind words again...

[Caranlondien]

I decided to analyze Nogrod first, because when I was part-way through writing my last post, he posted some things that made me more suspicious of him (if you go back to my last post, you'll see I put in some thoughts on his post).

Nogrod:

DAY ONE

#2: Suggests dreamers (besides Shaman) reveal their dreams as they happen.

#4: Defends plan, saying it will force the orcs to react rather than act. Also likes Celuien's suggestion that dreamers leave obscure hints, but thinks it might be too difficult then to determine what was a hint and what was not.

#6: Agrees with Roa that the Shaman role is "interesting" in that once the Shaman dies, we won't be scouring their posts for clues (except, of course, for the first dream).

#26: Thinks many players have made a hasty judgement on his dreamer plan. Says there's no way the orcs could benefit from it.

#32: Corrects Spawn, who had said that once a dreamer dies, we will easily be able to tell whom they dreamt of; says we won't know that person had a dream in the first place. Responds to Jenny's comment that revealing known innocents will help the orcs determine who the Shaman is; says it would also limit the scope for the Shaman about who the orcs are, but can't tell which is "heavier". Finally, says his plan is bad for a different reason: if the Shaman chooses mostly experienced players to dream about, we will be eliminating all those experienced players early (since the orcs would kill them).

#38: Agrees with Jenny that "I agree" stuff with no reasoning looks suspicious. Also finds people who say Day 1 is useless suspicious. Divides the villagers who have spoken so far into 3 groups. (Group 1) He thinks Celuien, Roa, Jenny, Spawn, and Caranlondien have been well-reasoned so far. (Group 2) Thinks Grendelien, Glirdan, Kitanna, Findeasea, and Naria have flawed reasoning (or no reasoning at all) in going against his plan. (Group 3) Thinks Diamond and Sleepy are acting suspiciously.

#41: Pretty much restates previous post, saying he won't vote for Group 1, and is willing to give the newbies from Group 2 the benefit of the doubt. Points out that Azaelia and Legolas iS haven't spoken yet.

#51: Vote count

#54: Responds to Roa's question about time zones.

#56: Tells Findeasea to make her vote bold, tells mod he thinks the vote should count anyway.

#58: Apologizes for accidentally changing his vote count in #51.

#60: New vote count. Doubts his suspicions of Diamond and Glirdan, and asks to hear more from Diamond.

#66: Defends his plan against one attack, but then says again that it's bad for other reasons.

#70: Says Sleepy's confession that he has been trying to get himself lynched confuses him and puts those who haven't voted yet in a weird situation. Edits to say cross-posted with Roa, who suggested Sleepy is trying to go for a record for getting lynched Day 1 or Night 1.

#73: Says Diamond's defense of herself (#71) has eased his suspicion of her.

#78: Lists the leading lynching candidates (Diamond, Glirdan, and Sleepy) and seems to briefly analyze each of them, though I can't make out what he's saying exactly about Glirdan. Lists the others who have not yet voted (Grendelien, Zali, Naria, and Legolas iS)

#85: Cross-posts with a bunch of people, and so doesn't realize he's not the only one left to vote; seems to prefer killing Sleepy (who seemed to want to be lynched), but says it would take another person to help him.

#88: Says since Glirdan's fate is already sealed, he might as well give Sleepy his wish and vote for him. (Votes for Sleepy).

#92: Tells Diamond that analyses have often proved useful.

DAY TWO

#99: Rejoices that Ranger staved off the Orcs' attack, but regrets we lynched an innocent yesterday. Says he felt uneasy about the forerunners (Does he mean he felt suspicious of them, or felt uneasy about lynching any of them? Probably the latter.) Warns he has RL stuff going on, won't be around too much toDay.

#101: Cross-posts a tally of votes with Celuien; says he excuses Legolas iS's no-vote as newbie-ness, and Naria's as computer-problems.

#102: Asks Celuien to analyze the Glirdan vote, and he'll do overall suspicions - innocence -claims.

#106: Responds to Roa, who had said she'll analyze Diamond-voters.

#118: Analysis of who people suspect / who they think is innocent

#122: Comments on the massive amount of analysis; wonders why no one analyzed Spawn, who is high on his suspicion list after doing his analysis. Asks some questions about Spawn's objections to his plan.

#127: Says suspicion of Spawn is because he sees her ideas as orc-helping, yet she has somehow not come under suspicion.

#129: Replies to Legolas iS

#141: Says he is toning down his suspicion of Spawn, but still thinks her attack on Roa is odd, and wonders at her suspicions about random voting. Makes a distinction between a "random" gut vote and a truly random (i.e., roll a die) vote.

#148: Worries that the day is wearing on and we have next to no suspects (Which I have to say is concerning me too). Decides to go by confusion-sowing, and lists Spawn and Celuien as two players whose posts have confused him.

#149: Responds to a question Roa asked him (asks what she's asking about)

#162: Responds to Caran's uneasiness, making a good point I hadn't thought of: a bunch of loud orcs might benefit in the short term by having the village kill all the quiet ones, but overall they'd prefer to have quiet people to hide amongst.

My thoughts: In #60, saying that he doubts his suspicions of the two people at that time in the lead for votes puts him in a very safe position if they're both innocent. Whichever one ends up dying, he can say he didn't think they were guilty. However, if they are both innocent, then it's good he doubts his suspicions of them... hmm, you could take this either way. #66 looks oddly defensive of his plan; I mean, he'd already found a flaw in it himself, so why keep defending it from other attacks?

I have a tendency to begin to suspect whomever I analyze, so I want to be cautious, but Nogrod certainly warrants keeping an eye on.

And I just re-checked the thread and added his latest post (#162). It addresses one of my concerns, and makes me less suspicious of him.

[Caranlondien]

That analysis took longer than expected (Nogrod, innocent or not, no one can say you haven't made substantive posts ) , and I have to go for a bit. I'll return to analyze Roa.

[Celuien]

Right. Loud orcs vs quiet innocents is exactly what a loud orc would want. Then they're doing all of the theorizing and planning to sway the daytime events and killing the more dangerous loud innocents at night. It leaves them completely in charge of everything.

So far the only vote is Kitanna for Diamond. Kitanna's main reason for the vote seems to have been Diamond's statement that she won't be helpful. That statement looked like Diamond just trying to say that she didn't really know anything with certainty, and was followed by this:

I suppose despite being an ordo I could still come up with some genius theory to help figure out who the Orcs are, but I kind of doubt it. Not my area of strength.

...so I thought she was just saying that she didn't feel confident in theorizing without input from revealed dreams.

Of course, Kitanna has now made me rethink my classifications, so while I most likely will not vote for Diamond, she moves to my watch list again.

And, please, Legolas iS, tell us some more about what you're thinking. One liners and silence only benefit the wereorcs. I'm also willing to give you the benefit of the doubt since you have been confused, but you can see that a plan has been floated that would involve lynching quiet villagers such as yourself. I don't want that to happen since even though I have supported actions in that vein before, I don't want to do so unnecessarily or without giving everyone a proper chance to adjust to the game.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Unfortunately I have to vote now.

There are a few silent people whom I could vote for being around so little that it's impossible to know if they are orcs or not, and if they're not, they aren't helping us to get the culprits.

Then there are a few loud ones who have caught my attention. One of them is Nogrod. I don't think he is suspicious because he made a case (even though it wasn't a case) against me, but because he twisted some of my words, and when a few people said that they didn't find my behaviour alltogether that suspicious, he started backing off (seeing that it might be dangerous to pursue this further, perhaps).

I really need to go now and I don't want to put Diamond so clearly in the lead (did Legolas' vote count?), so I'll explain my vote more tomorrow if I'm not dead by then. In the meantime, you can look at Caran's analysis of him, because she makes some points that I agree with.


++Nogrod


Good night.

[Roa_Aoife]

I have to say I sort of agree with Nogrod about lynching the quiet ones. It always seems to get maddenly quiet in the last days of a village because everyone who contributes has been killed, either by orcs or by lynchings. Also, orcs have been knwn to be intentionally quiet because no one ever looks in their direction to lynch them. Of the quiet ones: (These are taken from the post list at 5 or under posts)

Findeasea & Grendelien are new to the game, but despite the low posting number, they still manage to be thoughtful and substantial in their posts. I would like to keep them around for a little while longer at least.

Kitanna I don't what to make of. She seems to playing to her usual style- A few, good posts. (She's never survived long enough in games I've played with her to get a good feel for her way of playing.)

Zali is at the high end of the quiet people. She makes good posts despite the low volume, but several others have remarked (I believe) that she normally posts more.

Naria posts about the same way she always does. She doesn't do a whole lot of theorizing, but she does ask good questions.

Spawn also at the high end of the quiet people. She kind of pops in and pops back out with out much warning or explanation. I've not played with her before, so I don't know if this is typical.

Edit:Cross posted with Spawn, and forgot LiS.

LiS I'm excusing since she just seems to be really confused about WW at this point. Hopefully she'll catch up and be able to contribute.

[Celuien]

Unless I'm mistaken, Findëasëa hasn't arrived yet today. I hope she does. Farael has implied that non-posters for a day will automatically be killed (is this correct, oh great mod?), and I'd hate to lose anyone needlessly. Unless she's a wereorc, in which case she's more than welcome to stay away.

Since I have to go soon and am not sure if I'll make it back before the day ends, I'll have to cast a vote now.

++ Azaelia of Willowbottom

I'm interested by Spawn's suspicions of Nogrod. I think I'll have to take another look at both of them, but unfortunately, that will have to wait for tomorrow. If I'm still alive.

[Farael]

This is a message from the Prime Minister of the United States of America
*Hint**Hint* the US has a President

It has been hereby decreted that Legolas iS's vote will NOT count unless he votes again in the proper fashion.

Furthermore, it is now forbidden for any of the players to post or vote after the deadline, even if the Mod has not said anything about it (sorry guys, I might not be home tonight... that's why I wanted a co-mod but we didnt have enough players anyway.

In any case, you can all post for about three more hours and fifty minutes.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Originally Posted by Jenny

Diamond, there is a big difference between volume and substance.

Jenny, this doesn't sit quite right with me. I feel like Diamond has gotten down to business very well today (and even had before this particular post of yours). Her posting on the first day, I'm willing to forgive and forget for now, as there are aspects of my own behavior yesterDay that I'd like for the same thing to be done with.

And Celuien, I want to know why you voted for me. You expressed suspicion of me, but I feel like I wasn't given much of a chance.

[Diamond18]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I find this little bit from Diamond rather unsettling. Everyone in this villager (minus the orcs) is in a position to help. We can all help with well-thought out arguements and if we try to avoid random voting at all costs.

I agree, but mostly what I was responding to in my post was the assertion that my early Day 1 posts were useless (I didn't have anything to go on, and chose to take the opportunity to have fun rather than ulcerate over the Day 1 curse). Then Naria accused me of being unhelpful in my analysis. So, basically, what I wanted to say was "What do you expect from me? Blood?" I will post to the best of my abilities, and if that's deemed not useful enough to the village then I guess I'm bound to die, because this village seems eager to lynch me for lack of substance -- rather than actual Orcishness. I seem to have been dubbed a lack of space early on. So I only feel it fair to point out that if/when I die as an innocent, it will look very bad for those who voted against me because the reasoning isn't very logical.

So, why call attention to being "unhelpful"? What possible reason can she have to say that? What are you trying to hide yourself from, Diamond?

I was merely responding to claims already made against me, re: the unhelpful business.

Also she keeps saying she is an ordo, but the more she says it the more I feel she is anything but an ordo. We all know you can say you're just an innocent villager until the cows come home, but it doesn't make it so. I had very little suspicions of Diamond until I read that post.

Finally, a decent reason for voting against me. I don't mean to reiterate ordo-ness, I just got annoyed (again) be being accused of being a waste of space. If you find loud declarations of ordoness Orcish, than I suppose I do look Orcish from your viewpoint.

And yet, here we go again:

I'm not overly suspicious of Diamond, but her unhelpful post really set off an alarm about her. The fact she said that really got me worried. I just can't shake it.

You're not overly suspicious of me, but you're voting for me for perceived unhelpfulness. So I guess you just think I'm not an asset to the village? Wow. In a game with players like LiS, I'm really actually insulted by this.

Oh well. If I do die, it will be most fun watching you try to figure out which of my accusers had evil intentions.

EDIT: X-posted with everyone in the known universe.

[Roa_Aoife]

I have to go soon, so I'm going to get my vote in now, just in case.

I don't know really what to make of this village. Everyone is acting at the same level of suspiciousness to me, and I can't really decide who deserves a vote. I don't really want to get rid of the people who are contributing to the discussion since they're keeping things going. Of the quiet ones, I think Kitanna is looking the worst right now. So

++Kitanna

Edit: Cross posted with Zali and Diamond.

[Caranlondien]

Originally Posted by Roa

I don't know really what to make of this village.

Tell me about it.

Three and a half hours left, and no major suspects... As promised, I'll do an analysis of Roa.

I just can't decide whether Nogrod's new plan of lynching the quiet ones is something the orcs would or wouldn't want. I originally thought as Celuien does, that orcs could kill the loud ones at night and lynch the quiet during the day, but Nogrod did make some good points in his favor. I think if I have time, I'll analyze Celuien, too, as she and Nogrod are a bit at odds over this plan. Plus she's another one I naturally want to trust, and I wouldn't want to let an orc slip by me so easily! Sorry, I know other people have done analyses, but it's just about the only way I can work out whom to vote for... Plus, we do benefit from cross-checking.

[Sleepy Ranger]

What I Think About You - WITH REASONS!

Caranlondien: Innocent
I believe shes innocent. Shes been active in discussion and hasn't really given me any reason to suspect her.
Suspicion Level: *
---

JennyHallu: Not sure
JennyHallu is a very good player and I suggest we keep our eye on her, if shes an innocent then good for us however if she is an orc we're screwed. So I'll be keeping an eye on her just to be safe.
Suspicion Level: ***
---

Nogrod: A bit on the suspicious side
Now heres an excellent player. He could pull off quite about anything, whenever I've seen him play as an innocent hes played very well and has always been a prime target of the bad guys. However, in a way I have a feeling that hes been playing this game rather differently. I have a half formed theory linking him with Spawn, I'll work on this and see if anything works out.
Suspicion Level: ****
---

Grendelien: Not sure
I'm really not sure what to think about this one.
Suspicion Level: **
---

Findëasëa: Flip-floppey
No, I'm not calling her flip-floppey, I'm just saying thats what I am about her. I'd keep an eye on her but theres not enough to see.
Suspicion Level: ***
---

Celuien: Not sure
I'm not sure about her. I've a gut feeling that says shes up to no good but thats not really something you can rely on too well. For now I guess I'll leave her be with minimum suspicion.
Suspicion Level: *
---

Zali: O_o
Uh... I don't know?
Suspicion Level: N/A
---

Diamond: Innocent
I'm pretty sure Diamond is innocent. She never really struck me as suspicious, she had some fun on Day 1 and that alone proves to me she isn't here for the killing. At this stage I'm not really willing to believe that Diamond is anything but innocent, however later developments could prove me wrong, I wont rule it out.
Suspicion Level:
---

Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant: Very suspicious
At the moment since I have some sort of link between her and Nogrod I'd be bold enough to say that if she is an orc so is Nogrod and if she is innocent so is Nogrod. Its a very bold statement and probably a bit rash as well but it makes some sort of sense to me so I'll stick with it till I can solidify it. I'd suggest lynching her today.
Suspicion Level: *****
---

Kitanna: Somewhat suspicious
She can be a rather aggressive player at times, in fact I believe shes been aggressive in all the games I've seen her play. Her silence disturbs me, could something be wrong? I don't know but I'd definately like to hear from her.
Suspicion Level: ****
---

Naria: Innocent
Naria doesn't seem suspicious to me. For now I'd leave her be but once I have a look at the other folk it couldn't hurt to turn her way. For the moment I won't waste my time with her but if I come across anything I shall press.
Suspicion Level: *
---

Sleepy Ranger: Self-analysis is lame
I've always found people who analyze themselves sort of guilty. Probably just in my head but oh well, I won't be doing one for myself.
---

Legolas in spandex: noob
Shes a noob and has no idea what shes doing. I doubt she would've recieved a special role but with dear Farael, who knows?
Suspicion Level: What you say?
---

Roa_Aoife: Probably Innocent
Its a wild guess actually, I'll keep my eye on her but I believe shes innocent. I've seen Roa play as an evil-doer and I've seen her play as an innocent, I don't see much wrong with her.
Suspicion Level: **
---

Thats all for now. I'll get to work on my Nogrod-Spawn theory and get back to you folk as soon as I can. My vote will probably be for Spawn but it shall wait, I want to see what develops.

[Naria]

I am out of time! The most suspicous for me toDay would have to be Sleepy. He said that he was going to be more "normal" and help the village more toDay, but if I am correct he has only done the one post toDay and not much in it. I am not discounting the other two that I have on my list; I just think he is the most suspicous for toDay.

++Sleepy Ranger

[Findëasëa]

Good morning…er afternoon everyone,
First I would like to explain my choice for voting for Glirdan. I apologize for the lack of detail or substance in the explanation in my choice, I was under the impression that the voting ended one minute after I made my post, not two hours after. In order to make the deadline my explanation was rushed and, as a result, flawed. I understand that my accusation seemed unfounded and hypocritical, for the latter I have no excuses, I do look suspicious for my lack of informative posts. I will try to remedy this. My choice to vote for Glirdan was based mostly upon my perception of his actions. Disregarding all of the in character stuff, he seemed suspicious because of his random vote and because of his explanations. The random vote seemed suspicious because the nonchalance of his words seemed to contradict what I perceived as defensiveness in his explanations. We now know that this is innocent, so my perceptions were obviously wrong.

I have been trying to analyze the information posted today and its significance in discovering wereorcs. If I were a wereorc, I would try as hard as possible to make my image separate from that of my fellows in the minds of the other players. This would be beneficial in that if one were to die the others would not be reveled. Because I am new to the village, I am not quite familiar with the nature that individual people ordinarily project. This may handicap my ability to determine if a person is going out of their way to create a different image than usual. I am not trying to imply that this is a universal truth, just a way that one might be better able to figure out who is guilty. I guess that on the first few days this would be especially true. I will come back in a bit and post a list of people and who they have mentioned or interacted with.

[Legolas in spandex]

Reason for my vote: Diamond seems rather spontanious and she set about giving a non-useful post early in the game. She seems overly dramatic in her posts and has some desire to constantly speak of killing orcs, almost in a defesnsive manner as if afraid to speak too much of other things. As I have said..

++Diamond

[Farael]

Legolas' vote WILL count. But please, remember to bold your vote.

[Diamond18]

I have some ideas on who to vote for, but I'm going to hold off as long as possible (non-retractable voting makes me nervous). I'm at work and am about to leave, so when I'm at home and have more leisure to peruse the day thus far, I'll try to do some kind of review of my ideas/suspicions about all the players and make as informed a vote as I can. So, more later.

PS -- LiS, I'm always melodramatic. *dons valkryie cap, braids, and anatomically correct breastplate, sings opera* But I have to close up this joint and get home, so you'll all have to wait for my final aria.

[Caranlondien]

Roa_Aoife

DAY ONE

#5: Notes that the Shaman role is interesting; Shaman need not come forward (villagers who dream can sacrifice themselves instead), but on the other hand, once the Shaman dies, we can't just look back through their posts to figure out who they dreamt of.

#11: Says she thinks deciding whether to reveal the dream is up to the dreamer. Wants to move on and talk about strategies. Comments that random votes are better than no votes at all.

#16: Responds to Jenny's (joking) accusation.

#28: Asks Naria to explain two quotes, one of which was made by Nogrod, not Naria.

#40: Apologizes for misquoting Naria; tells Spawn her response to Jenny was joking. Defends random votes as a last resort.

#46: Says she must vote. Says Diamond is suspicious-looking, but doesn't think an orc would be that reckless off the bat. Decides to vote for Glirdan.

#53: Raises question about Timezones.

#69: Suggests that Sleepy is trying to get lynched because he's been killed Day 1 or Night 1 for the past few games and wants to go for a record.

#74: Points out to Nogrod tht Diamond is currently in the lead for lynching votes.

#76: Updates voting list.

#79: Lists those who have not yet voted.

#91: Says analysis can be difficult.

DAY TWO

#105: Says she'll analyze those who voted for Diamond.

#111: Analysis of Celuien. Decides Celuien looks less suspicious and more helpful.

#115: Laughter at "#71 Calls Sleep a dork"

#116: Analysis of Caran. Say she can't seem to find anything suspicious about me. ( Well, that's good, because I'm innocent).

#120: Analysis of Jenny. Can't seem to find much on her, either, but says that out of the three she's analyzed, Jenny looks most suspicious.

#126: Says Spawn's accusation of her left her confused.

#138: Explains Nogrod's short-hand in his vote summary.

#145: Expresses confusion about Grendelien's reasoning for voting for Glirdan. Agrees with Diamond that everyone seems to be trying to find fault with her. Answers Naria about someone postponing analysis; asks Nogrod his thoughts on "the whole suspicion thing".

#147: Asks Legolas why she voted for Diamond.

#151: Clarifies that she was asking Nogrod about his analysis of people's suspicions.

#154: Apologizes to Farael for "doing his job".

#167: Says she "sort of" agrees with Nogrod about lynching the quiet ones, because orcs can hide in quiets, and it gets quiet the last few days if all the louds are lynched. Lists "the quiet ones" as Findeasea, Grendelien, Kitanna, Zali, Naria, Spawn, and LiS.

#172: Decides that out of the quiet ones, Kitanna is looking the worst right now. Votes for Kitanna, saying she has to leave soon.


My thoughts: Post #11 (when Roa makes the now infamous statement about random votes being better than no votes at all) doesn't seem that suspicious to me. I agree with those who are opposed to random votes, but it seems to me that this statement was made in an attempt to convince people to vote, in general. Since then, she's sort of dropped out of the action, doing some analyses and mostly seeming thoughtful. Now this is no reason to think her guilty, I suppose, but she is clearly being careful. I still don't know what to think about the "killing-the-quiet-ones" scheme, so neither am I sure what to think about Roa's stance on it. In short, I'm keeping my eye on her.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Azaelia is Zali?!? No wonder... *slaps head*

[Nogrod]

I know that this looks bad: just writing reaction-posts to others (kind of defending my position), but I just have these twenty minutes or so, and I have just seen what has happend after my last visit here.

So a couple of fast remarks.

= Spawn
Then there are a few loud ones who have caught my attention. One of them is Nogrod. I don't think he is suspicious because he made a case (even though it wasn't a case) against me, but because he twisted some of my words, and when a few people said that they didn't find my behaviour alltogether that suspicious, he started backing off (seeing that it might be dangerous to pursue this further, perhaps)

I do admit rephrasing your post badly - as I checked it afterwards. My bad. But not intentional (see the widht of the analysis...). But the second point I don't understand: people grow more suspicious because of what is said and they grow less suspicious with it. I just basically learned from others, that there were other misunderstandings about the dreams (that they would be revealed), and started to think, that maybe you too could have misunderstood them. So I didn't tone down my suspicion about you because some others said they didn't find you suspicious (indeed there were also people who thought you suspicious too...).

= Caran
I just can't decide whether Nogrod's new plan of lynching the quiet ones is something the orcs would or wouldn't want. I originally thought as Celuien does, that orcs could kill the loud ones at night and lynch the quiet during the day, but Nogrod did make some good points in his favor.

This would need to be checked, but I have thought, that Celuien and I have been quite evenminded with this one. Celuien stated, that there is a danger of lynching innocents more, than lynching orcs - I do realize this danger with the quiets, but that danger also lurks when we lynch the active players. And really: these are suggestions for everyone to think about, not plans driven with some madman vigour...

Trying to be back asp.

[Findëasëa]

After starting to compile the interactions that people have had with one another I realized that my approach was too simplistic. There is a huge disparity between those who post a lot and those who stay silent. The list I was hoping to create may be more useful if I am still around later in the game with a fewer number of people who are forced to interact.

I have also been thinking about what Nogrod said earlier about focusing on the quiet ones in the group in order to protect the villagers who contribute the most. He comments that wereorcs could be attemping to hide under the radar to diffuse suspicion, and that leaving quiet villagers around does not contribute to the village overall. His logic in this post is well founded and his argument is valid. The one thing that I must call into question is his deeper motivation. Obviously, due to his many contributions to the discussion he would not fall into a category that would be considered for lynching under his own logic. This isn’t directly suspicious, as he did make a valid point and he, as well as everyone elce, is trying to survive. The problem I have with this reasoning is that it focuses the attention of people on a more random vote (since the people being targeted are quiet there is not much to base votes on). If one or more of the wereorcs is more interactive, they might direct suspicion upon one of the more quiet people who is innocent. I guess my issue is the founding for such a vote.

[Caranlondien]

I have to go soon, and must decide how to vote. It's difficult, because one can interpret a single action in so many ways - Nogrod seems reasonable, and not set in a single way of thinking. Or, perhaps he's eager to please, and doesn't want to ruffle anyone's feathers. My analysis of Roa didn't yield much, and I'm not ready to sacrifice someone who, if she is innocent, is surely an asset to the village.

Decisions... I'll go re-read a little and then cast my vote.

[Caranlondien]

1. Kitanna --> Diamond (Diamond 1)
2. Spawn --> Nogrod (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1)
3. Celuien --> Azaelia (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1)
4. Roa --> Kitanna (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1)
5 Naria --> Sleepy Ranger (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
6. Legolas --> Diamond (Diamond 2, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)

I'm concerned that the votes are spreading so thin. And I am quite inclined to believe Diamond innocent, now (because of her reaction yesterday, coupled with her substantive posts today). I just can't shake this bad feeling about Nogrod. So I'll vote for he who I find most suspicious:

++Nogrod

[Caranlondien]

1. Kitanna --> Diamond (Diamond 1)
2. Spawn --> Nogrod (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1)
3. Celuien --> Azaelia (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1)
4. Roa --> Kitanna (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1)
5 Naria --> Sleepy Ranger (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
6. Legolas --> Diamond (Diamond 2, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
7. Caran --> Nogrod (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)

[Sleepy Ranger]

Time for my vote, I'll stick with Spawn

FOR GREAT JUSTICE!

++Dancing Spawn of Ungoliant

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Originally Posted by Sleepy Ranger, emphasis mine

What I Think About You - WITH REASONS!

JennyHallu: Not sure
JennyHallu is a very good player and I suggest we keep our eye on her, if shes an innocent then good for us however if she is an orc we're screwed. So I'll be keeping an eye on her just to be safe.
Suspicion Level: ***

We're screwed.

++JennyHallu

Edit: cross-posted with Sleepy (unfortunately)

[Sleepy Ranger]

Oh My! Azaelia, do you mean to say you've had a dream of JennyHallu and she is an orc? In which case I regret not waiting a few more minutes before voting!

[Grendelien]

Originally Posted by Diamond18

Exactly what do you mean by this? I attacked no one at all (seriously) the first day. My vote for Glirdan was purely a defensive act (better he die than me). How was I quick to attack? I've mostly been responding to accusations so far.

By "quick to attack," I meant that you seemed overly offensive (and defensive), as a defensive strategy. However, I can understand your need to protect yourself, as no villager or orc wants to be lynched. Orcs generally have a greater reason to be defensive, since they are smaller in number, but it would probably be unwise for an orc to be openly defensive so often. I do have a tendency to second-guess myself, which means that I think frequent defensive posting could be a diversion (gah, back to that again)...but since I cannot come to any conclusion about this yet, I won't use Diamond's self-protective posts as a reason to find her guilty thus far.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

There is no going back, now.

That is exactly what I meant to say...so, in a word, yes. I did.

And I fear I will be orc meat tonight...Oh dear.

Edit: cross-posted with Grendelien

I've been going back and forth about this ever since I got in yesterday night. And subtlety was foiled: Jenny plays too well.

[Nogrod]

Oh my!

I think like I have seen this situation before. Nogrod on his way to gallows... Well not yet, but anyhow.

I'll try to catch up with what has happened. Half an hour! Auch...

[Grendelien]

Oh my, I was originally considering voting for Spawn or Nogrod, based on the various posts I have read, but Zali's newest post about JennyHallu is very telling. I will go back and reread Jenny's posts, along with others' anayses of her.

[Nogrod]

Are there enough of us here still? We need two votes! I can give one.

= Sleepy
Oh My! Azaelia, do you mean to say you've had a dream of JennyHallu and she is an orc?

= Zali
That is exactly what I meant to say.

And I fear I will be orc meat tonight...Oh dear.

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I think we can just swing it. By my calculations, 3 people have not yet voted... 4 should be enough for a majority, with the wide variety in votes.

*hurries back to refresh the thread*

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Grendelien

but Zali's newest post about JennyHallu is very telling. I will go back and reread Jenny's posts, along with others' anayses of her.

I don't think you need to. Jenny has been dreamed of, and I trust it, because it would be fool's work to be an orc-Zali and to lie about the one dreamt of. We should find the lie out immediately after Jenny's death, and would kill Zali the next day...

++ Jenny Hallu

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

Grendelien, I expect that as you re-read her posts, and others' analyses, the only thing you will find is a helpful, reasonable "villager" and a bunch of people who fell for the act.

I would have too, if I was not chosen last night.

edit: cross-posted with Nogrod

[Grendelien]

Ok, I will trust the dream:

++JennyHallu

[Sleepy Ranger]

If Grendelien and Nogrod vote for JennyHallu she can still be taken out and if she does turn out to be innocent then we'd know who we have to lynch the next Day. I've seen JennyHallu play before and as I said, "If shes an orc we're screwed." Its best not to take any chances, I don't mean to sound to forward but I am sort of panicing over the whole thing for some reason. My suggestions, go for JennyHallu. I doubt her posts will give any clues at all.

EDIT: Seems my post wasn't needed >_>

[Nogrod]

1. Kitanna --> Diamond (Diamond 1)
2. Spawn --> Nogrod (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1)
3. Celuien --> Azaelia (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1)
4. Roa --> Kitanna (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1)
5 Naria --> Sleepy Ranger (Diamond 1, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
6. Legolas --> Diamond (Diamond 2, Nogrod 1, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
7. Caran --> Nogrod (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1)
8. Sleepy --> Spawn (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1)
9. Zali --> Jenny (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1, Jenny 1)
10. Nogrod --> Jenny (Diamond 2, Nogrod 2, Azaelia 1, Kitanna 1, Sleepy 1, Spawn 1, Jenny 2)

So this means:
Diamond 2
Nogrod 2
Jenny 2

And Jenny is a dreamt of wolf...