Game thread - Werewolf C - The Father Christmas Murders

[Inziladun]

Here momentarily. It's been a long day, with family visits unfortunately mingled with dangerous weather situations. All seems to be quieting down now though, and I plan to be around much more tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I'm going to settle down and look at the voting record from yesterDay, go over the people I missed covering in my earlier post toDay, think about toDay so far, and try to catch us a wolf.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I'm not sure how far I'll get with that before I go to sleep, but I'll make sure to do that when I wake up if nOh, I get it then. So, it's not just the fact I voted for you but that I didn't plainly mention a suspicion of you before she cast her vote for you. That's fair enough considering how little there was to by for anyone yesterDay. Although since Lommy was the first voter and few people at that point had put down any serious suspicion of anyone, that reasoning would have risked anyone making a second vote for you looking dodgy.

Your explanation later in that post seems reasonable, I guess. On the minus side, I tend to be suspicious of people who make a point of saying "Let's get those wolves!", as if to spotlight their innocence. I will say you probably wouldn't be my primary candidate for a vote at this time.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!"). I would find that sort of rephrasing suspicious of itself, but a few more people seemed to think the point was fair. Looks as if I've misjudged the level of paranoia for that element of the game.

Nerwen made a good point addressing this.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Can you say that again please, because I think I'm missing something? What accusation? I do not believe I've accused Boro of wolvery at any point.

I was curious about that myself.

[Morsul the Dark]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Cop, the Modess has kindly extended the Day for another day. You don't have to worry about voting.

I totally didn't see the extension until now...

Still find McCab suspicious but obviously now that I have time I may find my vte unfortunate, as one big purpose of the vote was to avoid modfiring befre DL tonight(as I thought it was still tonight and whether or not I'd be back was in question...)

I hope this post is straight forward enough if not:


Silti löytää McCab epäluuloinen, mutta ilmeisesti nyt minulla on aikaa saatan löydän VTE valitettavaa, sillä yksi iso tarkoituksena äänestys oli välttää modfiring befre DL tänä iltana (koska ajattelin, että se oli vielä tänä iltana ja onko olisin takaisin oli kyseessä ...)***

***Courtesy of Google-Translate

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I totally didn't see the extension until now...

Modlote posted it only after your vote, I think.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Legate

more importantly, I am not sure if I'm buying what Cop did, apparently making a point of having a pre-prepared post and showing off to us all that it contains the pre-made line "oh, poor Boro and [name]". Sort of looks to me like something a Wolf could do as "look everyone, here's a proof I didn't know who was going to die toNight, and I am proving it by showing you that in my draft, there is a blank spot I intended to fill in after the narration has been posted". I think an innocent could have pretty well just deleted the second name from the sentence after finding out that no [name] died, but this looks to me like intentional effort of trying to prove one's innocence.

I thought of that too– but then an innocent– particularly one who has already been poked at a bit– might well be afraid that changing the name would be taken as a "wolf-slip". Although, I suppose you could say that her posting in general shows a bit too much concern with her "appearance".

My own problem with #177 is that it takes such a very long time to make a few, very obvious points that could have been made in a few lines.

Not that they're bad points, mind. McCaber's vote for Sally *is* peculiar– even, if that's not too loaded a word, "hypocritical", coming from someone who had barely been around himself. And his subsequent explanations don't really explain anything. Wolfish, though? It seems too clearly (and pointlessly) a "bad" vote for a wolf to make, unless there was a very good reason. In this case, the only one I could think of would be a Zil-McCaber pack, but I'll have to read through things to see how likely that might be.

I'll have more to say later, but I have to go now.

EDIT: fixed accidentally deleted sentence.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I thought of that too– but then an innocent– particularly one who has already been poked at a bit– might well be afraid that changing the name would be taken as a "wolf-slip". Although, I suppose you could say that her

...her? I hate it when computers delete stuff.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

...her? I hate it when computers delete stuff.

Don't know how that happened. I'll fix it.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I totally didn't see the extension until now...

Still find McCab suspicious but obviously now that I have time I may find my vte unfortunate, as one big purpose of the vote was to avoid modfiring befre DL tonight(as I thought it was still tonight and whether or not I'd be back was in question...)

While it seems clear that your vote came when you were under the impression that the Day would end earlier, it looks a bit strange that you take such pains to explain it while still saying Cab is suspicious.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I was a bit curious about people's choices for suspicion yesterDay, so I went through and counted how many posts each person made. Here's the post count from yesterDay (and a vote count, although not in order of timing):

Sally: 1 post (and no vote!)
Shasta: 10 posts (Voted Boro)
G55: 14 (Voted Legate)
Coppermirror: 14 (Voted Inzil)
Eonwe: 4 (Voted Boro)
Morsul: 6 (and no vote!)
Nerwen: 2 (and no vote!)
Inzil: 14 (Voted Boro)
Boro: 14 (Voted Sally)
McCaber: 6 (Voted Sally)
Thinlomien: 7 (Voted Inzil)
Legate: 7 (Voted Boro)

Accordingly, if we were simply going by voting for the most visible players, the biggest targets should have been...G55, me, Inzil, and Boro-innocent. All of whom came under a decent quantity of suspicion yesterDay, for one reason or another, and Boro who got voted off. I think we've messed up Day 1 rather badly in this regard. On the other hand, what were we supposed to do – suspect people who hadn't posted yet much? McCaber and Boro-innocent both ended up voting for Sally. They were both criticised for doing so, and I can see why. But, maybe they were right to take that tactic.

This is a pretty decent point. But, as you say yourself, there's no solution and it doesn't exactly yield anything.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Given that three people didn't vote and that many people didn't post much at all, toDay I will be very wary of the possibility that all of the wolves could be among the non-voting and not-posting-much people. 5 people posted a decent amount, and 4 of those survived. 7 people remain who didn't post nearly as much.

Statistically, this is true. But I am positive that at least one of the wolves was among the people who did vote.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Something that jumps out at me is that McCaber Tim has been very quiet for someone who decided to vote for someone based on a lack of posting and contributions. McCaber, why didn't you offer any analysis towards the end of the Day? You suggested “Maybe we should look for someone saying "I'm the Cobbler wolves please don't kill me" but you offered very little of substance at all, aside from that, and in fact most of your posts were about how you were going to vote for somebody quiet. I find it suspicious.

And anyone else – is this McCaber's usual playing style?

Can't tell. I haven't played much with him, and that time he was just as secretive and quiet. I can't say that this behavious is necessarily suspicious, but it is quite irritating.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I should note that I do find it suspicious when people show up close to the end without seeming to try contributing beforehand. Going by that on its own, Eonwe looks the worst.

Can't see how that's suspicious. See, people don't wait around all day next to their computers (I wish!) but maybe RL doesn't allow them to participate earlier. Some have to leave really early because RL doesn't allow them to participate in the second half of the Day, but that's not suspicious. Why should the other one be?

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

In the same post, Morsul also says it's terrifying that Gal thinks like him (and that maybe she should get her head checked). I don't know if it's just the way Morsul runs his sentences together or what, but to say that she was like him, and that it was scary, but not furry scary....I'm not sure what to think of it. Probably just typical Morsul. Thoughts from others, perhaps?

So this is what happened. Boro said that he watched a bunch of videos to imitate reindeer sounds. Following that, both Morsul and I opened Youtube (well I don't know what Morsul opened but I used Youtube) and searched reindeer videos. Morsul said that it's not-in-game scary that I would think like him at all, not related to the game in any way.

I know that Morsul tends to say three sentences for one punctuation mark, but it's not as confusing as you make it sound.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Boro's "next person in line should or shouldn't be killed because" or whatever plan wasn't the most sound idea I've heard, but Legate's reaction to it seems just as false as Legate claims Boro's plan is in the former's #61.

I would not disagree or argue with you on this, but, in all honesty, I want to ask you: why is it that you didn't like Boro's idea? I thought it's quite innovative, and while it doesn't hand you down the village victory it's something new to analyse instead of the old worn-down pattern.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

I'm currently thinking maybe a MCab Zil pacK

Zil's suspicions of Copper have grwn legs and spread but certain things she's saying make me doubt her furryness.

Mccab's vote for Sally seems rough, Sally just didn't make it here to post often yesterday I think we all gt caught up.

Nerwen Sally and I didn't vote this is fairly normal for NErwen but for Sally and I not so much I usually throw a half reasoned vote ut there Sally tries to be more meticulous... So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch

I think it is possible that one of them is a wolf, but something doesn't sit right about them as a pack. I do not think it's as simple as you make it sound. I would think that the wolves' connection would be less obvious.

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

You're usually quite active when pssible a vote for low participation makes no sense.

Voting fr you does two things He gets a safe vote(IE you wouldn't be lynched.)
Lets say IF you're innocent that lynch wouldve put MCab in everyone's minds tday. because there was no way yu were going to be lynched that problem doesn't exist.

Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

I tried to be thorough let me know if it's still not clear.

Morsul, a question for you. You've stated your suspicions on Cabbie and some thoughts on Lommy. What about everyone else? If you have time on your hands, would you mind making a list?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'm not saying that's what you actually did– this is not an accusation– but if you want to know why people didn't like your post, that's why.

This makes me slightly uneasy upon reread. I would expect Nerwen to be less... nice? about it.



Gosh, writing posts in a pain when you're listening to old Russian music and watching Star Wars simultaneously!

[Galadriel55]

Why is this game so dead? Post, people!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Just letting everyone know that I'm here... relatively. Expect thoughts from me in a few hours.

Edit - X'ed with G55, who is clearly not as exhausted from Christmas and immediately-following opening shifts at work as some people.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Why is this game so dead? Post, people!

Out of curiosity, did you ever find anything useful in analyzing the Night-kill that didn't happen?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Out of curiosity, did you ever find anything useful in analyzing the Night-kill that didn't happen?

Generally, yes, I make my own conclusions about what could have happened during the Night, and yes, it does influence my opinion. That does not mean that I am right in my conclusions, but such speculation never hurts when kept to oneself and when not considered decisive.

Out of curiosity, why do you keep bringing it up?

[Thinlómien]

Finally here! I hope you all had as nice Christmas as I did but it looks like you folks posted more. I'll try to redeem that: now here are some thoughts...


YesterDay

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Translation: "Hey, wolves, look what I found!" No, really, are you sure you're not the Cobbler of Christmas Present?

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

Very sure, thank you. But you commenting on that and trying to make it look like a signal does give me something extra to analyse about whether or not you're the Cobbler or a wolf, given that the gist of my comment settled on it being more likely that your statement was a Cobbler or wolf sign. Granted, I haven't suspected you a huge amount yet.

Wait, what???

End-of-Day1 Galadriel gives me a fishy feel. Both for praising my vote as impressive (which it wasn't) and her gut-feelingy suspicions that seem just fabricated. (Also "I haven't changed my gut-feelings"... huh? Does that mean you intentionally change them sometimes???)

End-of-Day1 McCaber, on the other hand, seems pretty sincere but I agree with whoever said it's not very profitable for us that he intentionally withholds stuff. Furthermore, his vote is not very impressive really - it's little more than a random vote. (Come on, who abatsins otally from posting intentionally? Most likely people have RL stuff in those cases.) I also like End-of-Day-1 Eönwë. He seems pretty sharp. Shasta has a good point about his vote possibly being suspiciously carefully structured, though.

Not really surprised about Boro being an ordo, and kind of curious about how that lynched happened. It seemed as if it came quite out of the blue even though it kept slowly unfolding during the later hald of the day. Have to think about that.


Last Night

I'm impressed! I don't remember when I last played with a ranger save. I am, however, a little sad of having less clues since there was no kill, but now it will be interesting to think who could have been targeted by both the wolves and the ranger last Night... Off the top of my head, I'd say Shasta, Nerwen, McCaber or Steve. Not very helpful, eh?



ToDay (it's been pretty long already)

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I have to leave now, but I wrote up a post last Night. Looks as if I don't need to edit it in response to someone getting killed overNight after all. I'm just going to post it unabridged and head off to do Christmassy things.

Ah, again the confidence in not getting killed... I have started witch hunts on this basis innumerable times. This time I'll just read on and see who starts it first... Although this one really makes my eyebrows jump with the pre-written condolences and all! Also pretty hypocritical-seeming commentary of yesterday in that post. I'm really not very happy about Coppermirror atm... [Later comment: so it was Legate who first brought it up! I knew it'd happen. Not sure what this makes me think of Legate. Probably that he and I think likewise.]

Looking at the voting record posted by McC, I have to say that if Inzil is a wolf, we'd better have a good look at Monsieur McC himself. Steve could be a packmate of Inzil's too. G55's vote looks totally out of plce, and doesn't exactly make me less suspicious of her.

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Ha! That should show these two villains that they aren't the boss here! That should show them that the situation could be reversed! And it will be reversed! We'll make them scared instead of beig afraid of them! Way to go, Ranger!

[/weird random obligatory IC]*

This gal seems just way too self-conscious about what she's posting.

Sally seems pretty ok once she appears.

Originally Posted by Morsul

SO it feels like Lommy is trying to make genuine prgress but running into blocks.

Thanks Morsul, that actually summarizes how I feel every single ww game.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Does this help?

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.

You just made my day, Eönwë!

Originally Posted by Eönwë

What did you mean here, Morsul?

That does seem pretty suspicious phrasing, I have to say! But it seems to suspicious to be an actual Freudian slip, especially as it's by Morsul.

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

For a moment I'll throw around the possibility of a Legate-Eonwe pack (and guys, I'm not accusing you here, just imagining scenarios). Legate apparently has a habit of voting for Boro early on in games. Knowing that and that Boro is innocent, they could use that as cover for a Boro vote, and Eonwe could follow on with it...But if that was planned out, would Eonwe omit to give any firm reasoning? Wolf-Eonwe wouldn't want to say "I suspect him for the same reason Legate does", but I find it hard to believe that someone would skimp on finding another reason. Provisionally, I'm going to conclude it's not likely that we have a Legate-Eonwe pack here. It's also just not likely that two wolves would vote for the same person when they're only a two-wolf pack.

Fair reasoning.

Originally Posted by Morsul

Silti löytää McCab epäluuloinen, mutta ilmeisesti nyt minulla on aikaa saatan löydän VTE valitettavaa, sillä yksi iso tarkoituksena äänestys oli välttää modfiring befre DL tänä iltana (koska ajattelin, että se oli vielä tänä iltana ja onko olisin takaisin oli kyseessä ...)***

Please don't kill me! *facepalms while laughing* This one actually makes sense more or less though!

I think from now on I could just post in Finnish, and you guys could google translate it, since it seems to go so well. Deal?


Ha, reading done! Now I could make a list. I have to vote relatively soon/early though, the DL being 6 am my time...

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Generally, yes, I make my own conclusions about what could have happened during the Night, and yes, it does influence my opinion. That does not mean that I am right in my conclusions, but such speculation never hurts when kept to oneself and when not considered decisive.

Out of curiosity, why do you keep bringing it up?

Because it seemed like an exercise in futility, potentially a "Look at me, I'm helpful" deal from a not-so-innocent.

[Thinlómien]

Probably got presents this year

Sally - the little she's posted seems actually pretty good. She's reasonable and thinks independently. I'd still like to see more from here to judge better.

Morsul - a bit fishy, I admit, but my gut-feeling says innocent. Far from being my top concern atm.

Nerwen - mostly gut-feeling again, but I don't find her very suspicious. I'd like to hear more from her, though.

Legate - his Boro-suspicion seemed like basic misguided ordo-Legate and today he has a train of thought very similar to my own, which makes me feel good about him. Quite alright for the time being.


The blind spot of my elvish intelligence

Shasta - like Sally, a quiet and independent poster, but he reminds me a little too much of succesful wolf-Shastas to make me feel easy about him.

Eönwë - I like his uncompromising thinking (and his jokes!) and he seems reasonable. Then again, there's something about him - notably him seeming a likely packmate for several people - that doesn't really sit right with me.

Zil - I don't know. He's actually under my radar right now. He hasn't really imporved much since yesterDay - in comparison with the general level of discussion (and again it seems he has RL reasons) - but there are way more suspicious people around right now. I'm keeping an eye on him, I guess.

McCaber - he's a little contradictory and mysterious, and his part in yesterDay's voting doesn't look too good. Then again, his tone is honest, if I'm any judge. Keeping an eye on him too.


Probably didn't get presents this year

Galadriel - flimsy reasonings and weird phrasings, plus she's way too self-conscious. Definitely makes my alarm bells ring.

Coppermirror - I really didn't like that pre-written post (both as an idea and the content). Otherwise, not so bad. Just seems to be off a lot, I wonder if it's confusion or wolvishness.


edit: xed with Zil

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

So this is what happened. Boro said that he watched a bunch of videos to imitate reindeer sounds. Following that, both Morsul and I opened Youtube (well I don't know what Morsul opened but I used Youtube) and searched reindeer videos. Morsul said that it's not-in-game scary that I would think like him at all, not related to the game in any way.

Aha! Yes, that actually makes sense. Thanks, Gal. I hadn't thought about it in that context. *headdesks*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, am I right in my calculations that the DL is supposed to come in something like 6, 7 hours? Does not really make me that happy since very many people haven't still showed up toDay at all, even though of course it is understandable and I am not the one who should complain, given that I also haven't been around. Still, one or two posts from the more obscure people like sally, or even Shasta who showed up basically only to excuse himself (though he promised more thoughts later, so I hope I'll still be around to read them, though I am planning to go to sleep in a couple of hours at most). Well, it is not such a tragedy, given the Ranger-save, technically, we can take this "extended Christmas Day" in some way as an extra-Day, with a lynch traded for a kill.

I am still pretty much wary of G55, who just keeps having the air of something not quite right there, and in some of her latter posts she seemed "agreeable", as if it was intentional way of trying to look like "Mrs. Agreeable". I was hoping for more from Steve, and I still hope he will show up. The same goes for Zil, who is really not very active, though it seems due to being busy. I must say I am pretty much in dark about McCab and actually haven't been thinking about him very much, because basically the only concrete thing about him is his vote for sally, which could've been an "easy vote", but that's about it, and I wouldn't necessarily put it past McCab to vote in such a way also as innocent.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I thought of that too– but then an innocent– particularly one who has already been poked at a bit– might well be afraid that changing the name would be taken as a "wolf-slip". Although, I suppose you could say that her posting in general shows a bit too much concern with her "appearance".

My own problem with #177 is that it takes such a very long time to make a few, very obvious points that could have been made in a few lines.

Yes, the "appearance" part is definitely there. And that's exactly why I would not expect an innocent to really give it that much thought. Simply put, I think it's rather a Wolf-thing to make show of one's posts and so on, an innocent would most likely edit it and not think about it.

Though of course taking into account also what Cop had said about her earlier gaming style, and also the explanation

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I would actually have had to do more editing than just deleting the name from the sentence there. The surrounding lines would have had to be re-written too ("What a tragedy! I'm terrified" doesn't fit at all when the Ranger's just made a great save, does it? And so forth...), and on the evening of Christmas Eve with a heck of a lot still to do, I was relieved that because of the Ranger-save I could slap an unabridged on my prepared post and go away ASAP without checking through it and making alterations.

It would be a plausible one. Though again it comes back to the question if an innocent would really bother himself with such things. I will have to think about it still.

As for Cop "taking long time to say obvious things", whereas I can see it being a "crime" in the eyes of some (and in a way in mine too, of course it's better to be clear and brief, but..)... it, exactly, isn't a crime by itself. So that wouldn't bother me. In such case, what is important is the content, whether it's long or short.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy and sally

[satansaloser2005]

I am in serious need of dinner and a few other things, but I'll be back before too long and will provide a list of suspicions and all that lovely stuff.

EDIT: x'd with Legate

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

End-of-Day1 Galadriel gives me a fishy feel. Both for praising my vote as impressive (which it wasn't) and her gut-feelingy suspicions that seem just fabricated. (Also "I haven't changed my gut-feelings"... huh? Does that mean you intentionally change them sometimes???)

Well, you don't change your mind either, if you think about it. Either way, it was referring to the reason behind the vote: whatever you want to think it is, mind or gut, it has not changed.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

That does seem pretty suspicious phrasing, I have to say! But it seems to suspicious to be an actual Freudian slip, especially as it's by Morsul.

Wait, what? What did I miss? How's it suspicious? It's just a bit muddled.

Edit: xed with Legate and sally x2

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Well, you don't change your mind either, if you think about it. Either way, it was referring to the reason behind the vote: whatever you want to think it is, mind or gut, it has not changed.

Actually, you can, if you think something over. Meanwhile, gut feelings seem to change by themselves. Or that's how I see it. However, it really isn't the only suspicious thing ou've said these past two Days.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Wait, what? What did I miss? How's it suspicious? It's just a bit muddled.

Might be a language thing, but I think noting that a post looks like you can "jump" on it sounds pretty opportunistic and fishy. As if you were just looking for something you could grasp at.

[Thinlómien]

Legate, the deadline is in a little less than 5 hours. See the Day1 beginning post time stamp for the deadline, for example.

[Inziladun]

Lommy's suspicion list looks quite a bit like one I would do at this time. Since I already was leaning toward her having an innocent air, that's helpful.

I would put Morsul in the Yellow category though, since I sometimes get the feeling he's trying to pull something.

x/d with Lommy x 2

[Thinlómien]

I'm probably the easiest buddying-up victim in ww history, but Zil agreeing with me and saying I seem innocentish made me feel better about him too.

Anyway

++Galadriel55

Easily the most suspicious person at the moment (which probably should be alarming. Where's the other wolf? And the cobbler?) If you need my reasons, see what I posted earlier toDay.

Now I'm off to bed. Happy remains of Boxing Day (or St. Stephen's, as you would say here) everyone and good night!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Might be a language thing, but I think noting that a post looks like you can "jump" on it sounds pretty opportunistic and fishy. As if you were just looking for something you could grasp at.

I think you're really overreaching here. To me it sounds muddled. Not more. If you look at it as a Freudian slip in the literal sense, that would suggest a wolf who all the time thinks of jumping on posts - which is actually not the best tactic for wolves to take as you usually susoect people based on those things. Can't see why jumping on posts would be plaguing a wolf's mind out of all the possibilities. And it's a very odd slip to make. I don't see your reason as a possibility. Moreover, the meaning of that sentence has already been clarified to the point that you would know what Morsul meant.

I don't like how you choose to press this issue. It is just like you did on Day1 - cast a shade of suspicion on someone and add that you don't truly believe in it, as though to distance yourself from it. I don't like it.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

This gal seems just way too self-conscious about what she's posting.

Give me an example of obligatory IC that's not self-conscious.



Now that people are starting to post I'm having trouble keeping up! Yay! Posts!

EDIT: xed since Lommy at 180

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Easily the most suspicious person at the moment (which probably should be alarming. Where's the other wolf? And the cobbler?)

Where indeed.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I did a little reread, and I should vote soon - so here a short list...

Sally - I can't honestly make a good judgement of her based on the little I have
Shasta - ditto
G55 - what I said about some "fabricated" feelings from some of her posts, with some having also the "Mrs. Agreeable" feel (although her short exchange with Zil wasn't that "agreeable", so maybe that's not really true anymore, however the fabricated tone remains)
Coppermirror - it's mostly the issue of the "poor Boro and [name]" post for me, though I can see the possibility of an innocent posting that as well, plus now, re-reading her posts a bit, I can see what Nerwen meant by the "little content", there is indeed much more of it than I thought, lot of what Cop says was really just recount of events of yesterDay with not making too many conclusions out of it. More to the point (still speaking of the pre-made post), I am not 100% happy about the easy throwing herself in with the list of other voted-for people (G55 and Zil) and the known innocent Boro. Could be a sort of "self-victimization" (while putting the name of a fellow innocent there), and reminded me of G55's insistance that "it looked like Cop-bandwagon could appear" yesterDay, and made me wonder if there might be a connection between those ideas.
Steve - I would just hope to see him around more. On re-read, I don't seem to recall what seemed so strange to me about his posting earlier. Actually, his posts have been toDay largely only short things, some lists etc. with not much content altogether. Some people said his vote yesterDay could have been a Wolf jumping on a bandwagon, though again, he could have jumped on either of the existing ones by the time he voted, unless he didn't care and/or there was a Wolf being voted for (though since there are only two Wolves, they would not have been both if Steve was one as well). All in all, needs more input, that's about it. But watching.
Morsul - despite his "hasty" vote (which he evidently thought belonged there), I still think he's being an innocent Morsul.
Nerwen - she is actually also one of the players who are not really as vocal or active as I might have expected her to be. But it is certain she brings out some good points in a Nerwen-esque fashion (though only a few). Basically it comes down to my wish that people would post a bit more than just "single-thought posts"...
Zil - ditto, as for toDay, there wasn't really that much. His little exchange with Galadriel was sort of interesting, but not really enough for making any conclusions.
McCaber - what I said, pretty much under my radar (or reindeer, to keep "themed") for the moment
Lommy - her thought processes seem similar to mine Now I wonder if I should be worried, but I can't imagine her mentioning that being e.g. a trick aimed only at me to lull me into trusting her or something similarly unlikely. So only in case you found my dead body toMorrow, then perhaps she should be looked at. On a bit more serious note, I really don't see anything suspicious about her so far, she seems to try to make an effort and not really sounding in any way false or anything.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy's vote and on

[Coppermirror]

Back, reading, and trying to put together a current chart categorising suspicions. Looks as if worryingly little has happened since I was here last.

[Galadriel55]

Sally - still digesting her posts. Leaning on the innocent side.

Shasta - I have hoped to see more of him. But he did promise to be around later.

Coppermirror - Just the same as before. Some mixed feelings.

Steve - see Shasta

Morsul - sounds innocent enough.

Nerwen - posts like her typical self mostly. Nothing alarming.

Zil - don't like our little peasant exchange, but then it could be comming from an innocent Zil too.

McCaber - that vote of his *sigh*. I have asked him a question regarding something he has said earlier, but he still hasn't come back to reply.

Lommy - don't like it how she paints suspicion on people while pretending not to hold the paintbrush.

Legate - has an interesting back-and-forth with Nerwen which makes me wonder about what could be the connection between the two, but no conclusions yet. May be just any typical back-and-forth. Also, that part discussing Lommy in his list - I'll have to reread that.


EDIT: xed with Cop

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Lommy - her thought processes seem similar to mine Now I wonder if I should be worried, but I can't imagine her mentioning that being e.g. a trick aimed only at me to lull me into trusting her or something similarly unlikely. So only in case you found my dead body toMorrow, then perhaps she should be looked at. On a bit more serious note, I really don't see anything suspicious about her so far, she seems to try to make an effort and not really sounding in any way false or anything.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Also, that part discussing Lommy in his list - I'll have to reread that.

I have consdidered this and decided that it's unlikely that Lommy and Legate are in cahoots, so at least this interesting relationship is sorted out into the right cubby in my head.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I have to vote, and there hasn't been really very much to go with. I think G55 is a good vote as any, and her last post does not really add to the impression I have of her.

++G55

Even though I am still curious about Cop as well, and definitely would like to look more at the more silent players too, Gal does not really look to me like an innocent Gal at all.

EDIT: x-ed with G55... this looks like even more grasping on straws, actually.

Good Night, village.

[Nerwen]

Back and reading.

[Coppermirror]

I'm still reading through the earlier posts and drawing impressions from those, but seeing the current trend towards G55 votes, I'd really like to know what G55 has to say about that. Could you respond to the suspicions that you're not acting like an innocent G55, if you're around?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Coppermirror

I'm still reading through the earlier posts and drawing impressions from those, but seeing the current trend towards G55 votes, I'd really like to know what G55 has to say about that. Could you respond to the suspicions that you're not acting like an innocent G55, if you're around?

I have responded to the clear-cut suspicions (or some at any rate... have I missed any? I can address those if you bring them up), but what can I tell you if I don't sound innocent enough for you?

That's a very easy reason to get me lynched by. And not something I can prove someone wrong about (no, I do sound innocent! - doesn't work, does it?). And I have been lynched for something similar in the past.

Tell me, do I sound fake to you? Just out of curiosity. Because, you know, you don't have to base your decision off a trend, whether it be in the negative or positive way.

[McCaber]

After getting off of work and doing some rereading, I have to rescind my accusations of G55. I misremembered what happened yesterDay and didn't do enough study on the holidays.

Legate, on the other hand, only gets worse while looking back. He jumped all over Boro yesterDay and really didn't do that good of a job explaining himself. I didn't want to believe it, but he looked like a wolf confident that he could get rid of a tough enemy early on a weak case.

[Coppermirror]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Tell me, do I sound fake to you? Just out of curiosity. Because, you know, you don't have to base your decision off a trend, whether it be in the negative or positive way.

I've just got to your name on the analysis list I'm doing and am just beginning to look through your posts now, so no, I haven't yet got a decent opinion on whether or not you're looking innocent. From what I've heard before and what you're saying now, you have been lynched while innocent for just sounding "wrong" a fair amount of times before.

You do seem a bit worked up, but that could be caused by getting two votes so far, and it also seems to me that a decent amount of people are cooler-headed as wolves than they are as innocents.

[Galadriel55]

Ah, screw all my plots and schemes, they never work anyways.

I am an Ordo.

On Day One I thought I'd make myself look like the Seer, so as to distract the wolves the following Night. However, all my suspicions have been genuine and very true. I have indeed suspected Legate based on feel. And I do believe I was the target last Night for that very reason.

ToDay, based on that belief (and, objectively speaking, I was the most Seerish looking person around), I decided to play Cobbler and try to get a reaction from Legate.

Now, I have considered the possibility that, assuming the wolves targeted me, they have done so to lead everyone down a false trail. However, at the same time, the wolves would not want to waste a kill on a person who is likely to be protected, so I think they would have come up with a better option if they weren't desperate. Get what I'm saying?

Plus, there are instances where I sensed Legate hinting at me. Especially the "fake" posts...


So, my conclusions, based on the above. Legate is a wolf. Last Night he was thinking that I have dreamt him on Night1 (which I did not, but he didn't know that). ToDay, as a means of trying to explore the possibilities this gave me, I did my best to dissuade him of my Seerness and persuade him that I am the Cobbler, which was also kinda difficult because I wanted to get him lynched.

Who is his mate and who is the real cobbler? Dunno. Nerwen and Lommy are worth looking into, but Lommy doesn't look like a potential mate, more like a cobbler. And Eonwe, Cabbie, and Zil are under a questionmark.


So, here's my proposition. Lynch Legate toDay. If he's not a wolf you can always burn me at the stake toMorrow. Deal?

++Legate



EDIT: xed since my last

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Back and reading. I do have to say my initial impression of the G55-wagon is that of... convenience, almost, although I can hardly blame Legate for wanting more content from people. I'll go through and do a more detailed post momentarily.

[Nerwen]

Just a note: I see various people have mentioned my lack of posting. The fact is, a Sugar-Plum Fairy has a *lot* to do at Christmas– sometimes not even murders can get in the way of that.

Originally Posted by G55

I'm still reading through the earlier posts and drawing impressions from those, but seeing the current trend towards G55 votes, I'd really like to know what G55 has to say about that. Could you respond to the suspicions that you're not acting like an innocent G55, if you're around?

And how is G55 supposed to answer that? "Yes, I am so!"? Really, that looks like a very calculating post, and does not make me think better of you, Cop.

But since you ask– I think what they are mainly talking about is– well the same thing I noted about you, actually– a general air of self-consciousness, as though she's been posting more with a view to "looking good" than anything else.

That said, I'm rather concerned the suspicion around her may be partly built on McCaber's statement about her having been "the one who rolled with that accusation [i.e. Boro's being a wolf] and made it stick"– which doesn't seem to be what happened at all.

EDIT:X'd since Cop at #192.

[satansaloser2005]

Don't trust:
Legate
Dun

Shifty:
Cop
McCaber

Unconcerned at present:
Lommie
Gal
Morsul
Nerwen

Will not vote toDay:
Shasta
Steve


The top two categories are open for business.


EDIT: x'd since the last McCaber

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

That said, I'm rather concerned the suspicion around her may be partly built on McCaber's statement about her having been "the one who rolled with that accusation [i.e. Boro's being a wolf] and made it stick"– which doesn't seem to be what happened at all.

Well, I don't know. A lot of it seems to have been based on feel. No one really mentioned Cabbie's early post as a part of the basis of their suspicion of me.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

The top two categories are open for business.

Don't know about Zil, but I won't mind a Legate lynch at all.