TIG CXVII: DEAD Thread: By the Waters of Tarn Aeluin

[Formendacil]

Well, that was a turn...

Pitch got there first, right and we KNOW he's innocent... so... Legate?

[Loslote]

Morsul - Pitch
Lommy - Legate
Legate - Pitch
Pitch - Legate
Boro - Lommy

Of these, which are the votes by possible wolves? Morsul voted for innocent Pitch. Lommy split the vote, adding possible wolf Legate, and Legate voted for innocent Pitch to save himself. Only one of these could be wolf-on-wolf, namely, Lommy voting for Legate, and Lommy simply didn't need to do that if they were packmates. If they are *not* packmates, that makes Morsul a wolf by default. Morsul has been pushing against the Pitch wagon now, and I'm not sure what that means. Is Legate the innocent of the three? But then did Lommy not vote for innocent Pitch if she was a wolf?

If Soriman votes Pitch, we have to vote Legate. If he doesn't vote at all, we could vote Lommy, and our vote would be the tiebreaker. This is tense.

[Loslote]

Pitch just asked Soriman to vote Lommy and leave it up to us. So, what do you say, Form? Legate or Lommy?

[Formendacil]

I'm afraid of getting it too close to the wire and I have NO read on Soro's reliability. I'll let you make the choice: Lommy or Legate.

[Loslote]

This is so stressful. If one of Legate and Lommy is innocent, which is the only way our choice could cost us the game, then that means they're packmates with Morsul. Morsul is currently pushing to let the Dead decide - because he thinks the Dead will vote for Pitch? Lommy added Legate to the board, and Boro added Lommy...and Boro is more trustworthy than Lommy, simply because we know for a fact Boro at least isn't voting an innocent on purpose...

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

That doesn't sound like a bad plan. I mean they would be making their decision based on more information than we have. Even though they may be fallible, it would be an interesting way to end it.

For love of the Witch-king, Boro!

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Loslote

This is so stressful. If one of Legate and Lommy is innocent, which is the only way our choice could cost us the game, then that means they're packmates with Morsul. Morsul is currently pushing to let the Dead decide - because he thinks the Dead will vote for Pitch? Lommy added Legate to the board, and Boro added Lommy...and Boro is more trustworthy than Lommy, simply because we know for a fact Boro at least isn't voting an innocent on purpose...

Yeah, I think they think we'll vote Pitch. Joke's on them, though, because knowing an innocent makes this confusing...

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Yeah, I think they think we'll vote Pitch. Joke's on them, though, because knowing an innocent makes this confusing...

It sure is!!

If Morsul is pushing for the Dead because he thinks it's the more likely way to get Pitch over Legate, maybe that means they are packmates??

[Formendacil]

It might be the best thing we have to go off.

Sally's comparative silence is actually WORSE than trying to fool us toDay.

[Loslote]

Vote Legate then? I have both votes cued up, ready to press send.

[Formendacil]

I almost think Lommy, because though she and Morsul have traded lots of barbs over his "unthinking" trigger-voting, that ALMOST seems staged to me... but he and Legate haven't really gone head-to-head...

[Formendacil]

Alea iacta est!

Morsul's last has convinced me...

++Legate

[Loslote]

If Morsul is innocent, it doesn't matter which we choose. It only matters if he's a wolf. This is so convoluted.

[Loslote]

++Legate

I hope to see you all on the other side.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Loslote

If Morsul is innocent, it doesn't matter which we choose. It only matters if he's a wolf. This is so convoluted.

Gah! You're right about that--I have this whole thing backwards "if X is a wolf then Y is an ordo, but if Z is an ordo then P can only be a wolf on the half-moon..."

Still, Legate FEELS right(er). Barely.

[Loslote]

I am sitting on pins and needles here waiting for the narration. Legate, welcome to the Dead Thread, really hope you're a wolf!

[Huinesoron]

Well done, Deaduns! (Are we still Cuties if we're not the Quarantine Thread?) I'm excited to find out in the morning what happened on this side of reality!

hS, allowed actual words again

[Formendacil]

By Manwë's blue nether-regions! That was a tense Day-end!

Legate, I am delighted you are a Wolf.

Hui, welcome back to the Departed!

[Loslote]

YES! The game continues!!

It's now a 50-50 shot between Morsul and Lommy, and depending on the Night kill and on the information we get from our Moddess, we might be able to figure out which one of them it is. We might actually pull this one out, friends!

Edit: xed with Huin and Form - welcome back, Huin!! Excellent job haunting!

[Formendacil]

I am mildly petrified of a Lommy-wolf killing Boro overNight and an Ordo-Morsul seeing Pitch's continued life as a clear sign of Wolvishness--get [b]Soro[b] to go along (he does, after all, seem to care a bit more about being mod-fired for not voting than for actually not voting...) and you've got a Dead-proof vote for a Known Innocent.

...but all that's for later! For now, we "live" to fight another day.

[Galadriel55]

The Living
Boro
Lommy
Morsul
Pitch
Soriman

The Dead
Gorlim (NPC/Ghost)
Galadriel55 (Night 1)
BlindGuardian (Night 1)
Greenie (Day 1 - Ordo)
Formendacil (Night 2 - Ordo)
Hui (Day 2 - Ordo)
Loslote (Night 3 - Ranger)
Sally (Day 3 - Wolf)
Kath (Night 4 - Seer)
Legate (Day 4 - Wolf)

Night 5 begins.

Legate, welcome to the DT! You and sally will receive an infodrop selection when BG and I find something eligible. This is getting harder and harder to do. Please be patient with me, I apologize for the delay.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, hells. Welcome to the party, brother sestra.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

It might be the best thing we have to go off.

Sally's comparative silence is actually WORSE than trying to fool us toDay.

I'm glad it's driving you insane, because I've been so out of it today I am barely keeping up with the thread. Glad to be of disservice.

[Blind Guardian]

In accordance with what was discussed prior to the start of the game, we don't believe that the DT should function as a Seer. Therefore, no one player's role should be given with certainty. Furthermore, as mods, we don't feel it is fair to give free information that can override all the player's actions, as that will invalidate the playing and break the game. This 50/50 scenario is something that should have been foreseen but wasn't, and for next games some sort of caveat should be made for this situation. But for now, please accept our apologies and this infodrop. While redundant, we hope that it will still point out a different perspective to you.

We are aware that you may be upset about this change and we are prepared to listen to any complaints you may have. Therefore, we have prepared a complaint box for your enjoyment. We hope that this is satisfactory.

There have only been 3 wolf-on-wolf votes in the game.

[Loslote]

That’s very fair, and I wondered if you might come to that decision! I, for one, am not going to complain. I think the Ghost and infodump mechanics have been great, and I especially like that the Living have one perspective and set of information, the Dead Thread has another, and the Ghost has a third, which is basically an outdated version of the Dead Thread perspective. It makes for a very fun game with high tensions and lots of excitement.

[A Little Green]

Ooooh, well done Form and Lottie! So we're down to Lommy or Morsul for the last wolf. I'm tempted to say that if it's Lommy she deserves to win. She could just as well have used the Confused Lommy -act to justify a vote for Pitch instead of throwing in a fellow who had avoided more or less all scrutiny until then. (I don't think anyone had voted for Legate all game until then. It was getting a bit creepy, actually.)

Originally Posted by Form

I am mildly petrified of a Lommy-wolf killing Boro overNight and an Ordo-Morsul seeing Pitch's continued life as a clear sign of Wolvishness--get [b]Soro[b] to go along (he does, after all, seem to care a bit more about being mod-fired for not voting than for actually not voting...) and you've got a Dead-proof vote for a Known Innocent.

That's a terrifying possibility. It'll be interesting to see whether the last wolf will go the obvious route and kill Soriman as a more or less known innocent, or do something else.

Originally Posted by BG

There have only been 3 wolf-on-wolf votes in the game.

I'm aware this doesn't actually give us anything definite, but I did go back through the votes anyway. If the last wolf is Lommy, the 3 wolf-on-wolf votes would be Legate>Sally (D3), Lommy>Sally (D3) and Lommy>Legate (D4). If the wolf is Morsul, they would be Legate>Sally (D3), Morsul>Sally (D2) and Morsul>Sally (D3).

As for toMorrow - Kath, would you like to go back as Ghost yourself and tell them about Boro and Pitch? Or does someone else want to do it?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Well, Hui looks like he's having fun--and he's got some excellent texts. Almost too excellent. To my mind, he's conveying the information extemely well.

Not that I necessarily want to make a tough job tougher, but... it might be worth considering for future iterations, if we want to keep upping the difficulty level, so as not to have "set texts," that a Ghost can only use a quote once per game--i.e. no repeating that extremely useful "Innocent" quote from UT.

A suggestion for the future--not now!

I absolutely agree with this, and have in fact named my file of quotes/posts "Breaking the Ghost over My Knee". This is why I argued for some limits on the role - cutting it down to one quote per post or giving a posts-per-day/posts-per-hour limit would seriously reduce the ability to do this sort of thing. No reusing quotes is also good (and would make it very hard to say "innocent" reliably, or to talk about "Iluvatar" very much).

The biggest realisation I had was that I could bracket multiple name-quotes with repeats of the information about them. It's very hard to misunderstand "three quotes saying 'pitch' with 'we don't know for sure' on either side". (I was perversely glad not to have to clue Kath, though; that was definitely my weakest prospective post.)

Originally Posted by Kath

Popping in but won't be back til after work. Is Hui allowed to read in here today? Cause Pitch is not a wolf. Dreamt him last Night.

I noticed mention of this last night when I checked in, and it's hilarious. ^_^ There's me trying to come up with ways to explain why we suspect him, and you lot all know he di'n't do it!

Originally Posted by Kath

Still popping sorry! Dreams were:

Night 1 - Greenie - innocent
Night 2 - Sally - wolf
Night 3 - Boro - innocent
Night 4 - Pitch - innocent

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

In accordance with what was discussed prior to the start of the game, we don't believe that the DT should function as a Seer. Therefore, no one player's role should be given with certainty. Furthermore, as mods, we don't feel it is fair to give free information that can override all the player's actions, as that will invalidate the playing and break the game. This 50/50 scenario is something that should have been foreseen but wasn't, and for next games some sort of caveat should be made for this situation. But for now, please accept our apologies and this infodrop. While redundant, we hope that it will still point out a different perspective to you.

We are aware that you may be upset about this change and we are prepared to listen to any complaints you may have. Therefore, we have prepared a complaint box for your enjoyment. We hope that this is satisfactory.

There have only been 3 wolf-on-wolf votes in the game.

This is entirely fair. Going back for a final Things We Know:

A) This information all used up.

B) This information all used up.

C) This information all used up.

D) The last wolf can be found among Boro, Pitch, Lommy, and Morsul .

E) Soriman is innocent.

F) Boro and Pitch are innocent.

G) Lommy or Morsul is the last Wolf.

H) When not bussing Sally, the wolves all love each other very much. ^_~

hS

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Greenie

As for toMorrow - Kath, would you like to go back as Ghost yourself and tell them about Boro and Pitch? Or does someone else want to do it?

I think it would be very fitting for the Seer to return as our final Ghost, but I'm not sure what Kath's timings are like? I think we need a Ghost-drop right after DL, because otherwise an innocent Morsul could pull an early-day Pitch vote again and throw everything to the winds.

I wonder who we'll see toMorrow... objectively the last wolf should kill Soriman, because a Known Innocent in the final 4 is a terrible thing. But when that innocent has such a low post-count, and has in fact missed two votes, it might be better to instead target someone you think is likely to out you/someone to misdirect suspicion.

It would be hilarious if Wolflomien killed Morsordo to try and get people to vote Innopitch.

~

I scribbled some notes in the haze of yesterDay evening, and it looks like I found Lommy's interactions with the Ghost somewhat suspect.

Originally Posted by Lommy #445

I don't understand Hui's posting.

...

I would like to know how they're sure they know, but I guess I'll just have to take a leap of faith.

Originally Posted by Lommy #458

Yes, I agree toDay's messages have been clear.

...

Or does it mean he is not hostile to me or Morsul (since we're the ones with Sindarin usernames) and the dead think we're all innocent? Or even know something?

1) The second post flatly contradicts the opening of the first on whether she could understand my posts.

2) In the first, she tried to tempt me into explaining how we know Soriman is innocent. That would be a great way to get a confusing Ghost post that she could use to sow more confusion in the camp.

3) Seeing a quote that says 'innocent' in the middle, and trying to parse a mention of Elves as being specifically about the players with Sindarin names is just... well, a huge stretch, and I don't think very likely to do in good faith. Looking at my opening posts and thinking I'd throw in two more Known Innocents ("or even know something?") in an incredibly oblique couple of words is... nah.

Of course, I also scribbled about Lommy and Pitch working together to get Boro and Legate to turn on each other or Morsul, so that's the value of my thoughts.

hS

[satansaloser2005]

I got up to get more meds, and I come back to people actually trying to catch wolves? What is this nonsense?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I got up to get more meds, and I come back to people actually trying to catch wolves? What is this nonsense?

You're absolutely right. The important thing is how heartless those other wolves were in voting for your demise when you never even dreamed of doing the same thing to them. I think you should sit down and tell us all about how Legate and wossname mistreated you; you'll find us a very attentive audience.

hS

[satansaloser2005]

Nice try, Huey.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh hello there... who would have known Halls of Mandos are full of meat!

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Legate, I am delighted you are a Wolf.

The pleasure's all mine, I assure thee.

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Well, hells. Welcome to the party, brother sestra.

Thank you, thank you, Sestra Wolfcake. Glad to see you are dead and well. Let us grab some popcorn and see how this unfolds.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Huin

I wonder who we'll see toMorrow... objectively the last wolf should kill Soriman, because a Known Innocent in the final 4 is a terrible thing. But when that innocent has such a low post-count, and has in fact missed two votes, it might be better to instead target someone you think is likely to out you/someone to misdirect suspicion.

It would be hilarious if Wolflomien killed Morsordo to try and get people to vote Innopitch.

That would be such a great ending! Or, for that matter, Morswolf offing Lommy thinking she'll look too innocent after her Legate vote Seriously though, I hadn't thought of this before but it might actually work in our favour that the village didn't get Kath's information already yesterDay. This way whichever of them is the wolf has to make toNight's pick without knowing that it's going to be just between them and one other toMorrow.

Originally Posted by Legate

Let us grab some popcorn and see how this unfolds.

I agree with Legate (even if I haven't quite forgiven him for getting me lynched on Day 1 ). This is going to be very entertaining, whichever way it ends.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

I agree with Legate (even if I haven't quite forgiven him for getting me lynched on Day 1 ).

Ah, surely you can forgive me such a minor trespass. After all, I had to offer an alternative to lynching an innocent Hui - surely you perceive that that's a charitable deed? And think how much good it did - it gave the good fellow an entire full Day of life! Is that not fully worth a little (green) personal sacrifice?

[Kath]

Hi all! Welcome Legate and welcome back Hui.

Form and Lottie well done on that save yesterDay. It was seriously down to the wire!

I would love to be the Ghost as it looks like so much fun, but it's just not feasible for me I'm afraid due to my timings as someone said so I will bow out gracefully.

And yes, if Lommy/Morsul manage to kill the other suspect then ...

[Huinesoron]

I'd really like someone new to be Ghost, but if nobody is able I can drop a set of Iluvatar-Innocent posts at DL (sleep is for the weak). But I'd really rather someone else did it.

hS

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I'd really like someone new to be Ghost, but if nobody is able I can drop a set of Iluvatar-Innocent posts at DL (sleep is for the weak). But I'd really rather someone else did it.

hS

I'm with Hui in both being able and wanting someone new to do it. Since we DON'T want the Wolves--*looks scoldingly at the Wolves* and if we spare the earlier-to-bed players... Lottie? Want a go?

[satansaloser2005]

Pick me! Pick me! I'll do a good job, I swear!

[Loslote]

I can do it if there isn't a high demand for the position. I'll start getting some quotes ready.

[Kath]

Thank you for volunteering Lottie! Do we need to vote for who is going to be the Ghost?