Riddles in the Downs

[Huinesoron]

Nope (Finrod was the eldest of his siblings, and probably older than at least some of his cousins). Muuuuch later; we're down in the Third Age here.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Nope (Finrod was the eldest of his siblings, and probably older than at least some of his cousins). Muuuuch later; we're down in the Third Age here.

hS

Sam and Rosie?


Pippin and Diamond?

[Huinesoron]

Dingdingding!

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Last of all he joined the journey
Though at first one of the three
Ventured forth and found new honour
Before returning home - to me.

Though the youngest of his fellows
He took the title deemed most high
While I by name alone am titled
Who is he?
And who am I?

Pippin was the last member of the Fellowship to be officially appointed, though he had been one of the original three companions in the Shire. He became a Guard of the Cotadel, then returned home to marry Diamond of Long Cleeve. He was the youngest hobbit in the Fellowship, but wound up Thain of the Shire, the titular ruler of the region. Diamond, meanwhile, exists only as a name and some children.

Phew! Well done, Urwen, and a well-earned 'over to you'.

hS

[Urwen]

Thank you. Here is a fairly simple one I've been cooking up.



The Beauty and the Brave
That's what we were
Yet because of a single moment
We were no more


But that moment didn't last
Because we won His favor
The island with a spooky title
Was where we lived with fervor


Here we've dwelled
Till we've left the world
And despite the ages that passed by
We're still remembered through song

[Galadriel55]

Beren and Luthien?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Beren and Luthien?

Yeah.


Can you explain, though?

[Galadriel55]

Well, Beauty and Brave are appropriate titles. After dying they succeed in pleading with Mandos to grant exceptions from the fates of both their races. Following resurrection they live in the Land of Living Dead or something similar, which is a pretty creepy name if you don't know the backstory. Finally their story still lives in the Third Age and is literally presented to us for the first time in the form of a song.

[Urwen]

Your turn. You've earned it.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Your turn. You've earned it.

Thank'ee!

This shouldn't be a difficult nut either. Enjoy!



Don't be afraid, don't turn away,
Though we look old we have no sway.
Our fathers here left us to stand;
Their children left ancestral lands,
Their speech is loud but we are deaf,
We both mark ways away from death.
Our deeds forgotten, our purpose gone,
Our mournful gaze falls onto stone.

[Pervinca Took]

The Argonath?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

The Argonath?

No, but good thinking. You're on the right track.

You know what? This riddle could have been much cooler if I involved the Argonath. Maybe several years from now when this one is forgotten I'll reuse it with an update.

[Pervinca Took]

'Both' made me think there were two, and was partly what made me think of the Argonath, but it could be 'us' and 'those others,' reading the riddle again.

It also makes me think of Legolas's 'fair they builded us ... but they are gone. They sought the havens long ago.' I can't remember what 'us' is, though.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

It also makes me think of Legolas's 'fair they builded us ... but they are gone. They sought the havens long ago.' I can't remember what 'us' is, though.

It was the stones in Eregion. Another excellent answer but not the right one, I'm afraid. Keep going, you're getting there.

[Huinesoron]

Is it the stones on the path up to Dunharrow? The Púkel-men, who were probably placed by the Woses/Druedain; both they and 'their [ie, the makers'] children' guard ways away from death, in that the two roads taken from Rohan to Minas Tirith were through the Druadan Forest and the Paths of the Dead.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Quiet around here suddenly. I know it hasn't been long, but you were so close with those guesses I thought you'll hit it with the next swing.


EDIT: Ha! Cross posted!

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Is it the stones on the path up to Dunharrow? The Púkel-men, who were probably placed by the Woses/Druedain; both they and 'their [ie, the makers'] children' guard ways away from death, in that the two roads taken from Rohan to Minas Tirith were through the Druadan Forest and the Paths of the Dead.

hS

Exactly! It is the Pukel-men in Dunharrow. The description is based on the passage when Merry sees them, and a bit of info about the Druedain near Amon Din.

I was thinking that the statues point the way into the haven/fortress/survival place of Rohan while the living Druedain show the Rohirrim a road that avoids death at the hands of the army guarding the main road. But your explanation works as well.


Over to you!

[Huinesoron]

Yay! Great riddle, I love how much depth you've snuck in there.

And since I've got this one all prepared...

Last of all and named to prove it
Though the sense was left unclear
Took me north to broken kingdom
From my southern home so dear

He laid claim to ancient title
When my father cold did lie
Yet the crown fell to my cousin
So who are they?
And who am I?

Three names being looked for here (or even four!), but 'He' and 'I' are the key ones.

Hopefully not too hard...

hS

[Galadriel55]

Sounds like some Arnor/Gondor thing. Here's my best solution:

He = Arvedui, last King of Arthedain, a piece of the broken Arnor Kingdom. Wanted to reunite the Kingdoms under himself as ... High King presumably?
I = his wife Firiel, the Gondorian princess
Father = (had to look him up) Ondoher
Cousin = (likewise) Earnil II

If I remember correctly Gondor was left without a direct son and heir, and there was a debate. The King of Arnor (presumably Arvedui but I'm not too sure) presented his claim to the throne as 1) the husband of the heiress and 2) a descendant of Isildur, but it was rejected because 1) in Gondor only the male line was used and 2) Gondor is Aranion's Kingdom, Isildur got Arnor.

[Huinesoron]

Exactly right! 'Arvedui' is translated 'last-king', a name given to him by Malbeth the Seer. Malbeth explicitly says that he's either going to be the last king of Arthedain because it will be destroyed, or because he will wind up as High King.

It takes... a fair amount of gumption for the ragtag king of a shattered realm (two-thirds of which have been conquered by Angmar!) to say 'hey, I'll happily take over your prosperous southern kingdom' and expect it to stick, but that's Arvedui for you: he was never afraid to throw himself at a challenge.

(Which didn't exactly end well for him, but hey, he tried.)

Anyway, over to you!

hS

PS: The events surrounding the loss of the two Dunedain royal lines within a generation of each other are one of the few incidents in Tolkien where it's entirely possible to root for both sides of a conflict. I have said, and maintain, that the period would make an excellent candidate for Amazon's Game of Middle-earth Thrones thingy - not least because there's so little canon material for them to break!

[Galadriel55]

Great riddle! I like how you tied in multiple names and facts together so neatly.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

PS: The events surrounding the loss of the two Dunedain royal lines within a generation of each other are one of the few incidents in Tolkien where it's entirely possible to root for both sides of a conflict. I have said, and maintain, that the period would make an excellent candidate for Amazon's Game of Middle-earth Thrones thingy - not least because there's so little canon material for them to break!

That's actually a very good idea. Like a really really good idea.


Here's another fairly simple riddle. No rhyme for this one, creativity running low, but you still get a rhythm.

Through great peril and enchantment
On wings birdless I speed onward
Past the dark place and the light one
'Cause I promised. Where now am I?

[Pervinca Took]

Earendil ... now Venus?

[Galadriel55]

Not him.

[Pervinca Took]

Luthien in her bat disguise, but now beyond the Circles of the World?

[Galadriel55]

Not her either. Maybe the riddle is not as simple as I thought. In both answers, what is the promise that spurs the first lines?

[Pervinca Took]

Aragorn, promising to get to the Pelennor after going through the Paths of the Dead?

Ah, what were the promises vis-a-vis my wrong answers? I thought maybe Earendil promised the Valar to sail Vingilot across the skies / some vague promise of loyalty to Beren from Luthien.

But when considering the 'promise' bit I thought the wings could be Shadowfax and the promise Gandalf's - to return to Theoden .. and he is now back in Valinor.

[Galadriel55]

Still no correct answer, but getting closer in a way.

[Urwen]

I'll go with dear Sam and his promise to Gandalf.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I'll go with dear Sam and his promise to Gandalf.

Ok and in that case what are the wings and the places?

Not the answer. Is it time for a hint?

[Urwen]

Easy. 'Wings' in Tolkien language could mean running really fast, as in 'Fly you fools'. The places are Minas Morgul and Lothlorien.

And if not, I'd say it is time for one.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Easy. 'Wings' in Tolkien language could mean running really fast, as in 'Fly you fools'. The places are Minas Morgul and Lothlorien.

And if not, I'd say it is time for one.

I would argue that Sam passed through many dark and light places, not just those two. And though in Tolkien language wings might be entirely metaphorical, they aren't entirely so in mine.

As for the hint... Give the last question a thought. It's more than just a question for you to answer, it's a clue in itself.

[Urwen]

Maybe Gandalf, on Shadowfax?

[Pervinca Took]

I suggested Gandalf and Shadowfax in my last post.

...

Does Sam promise Gandalf anything? In the book?

[Pervinca Took]

Not Gandalf falling with the Balrog? Depths of Moria, then out on the mountain-top?

Promise ... 'I will always help you' - to Frodo?

It was your mention of wings that did it ....

But 'peril and enchantment' do suggest Angband ... or maybe the Girdle of Melian (or Galadriel's enchantment of Lothlorien).

[Galadriel55]

So far all the answers come from the wrong time. And seriously, think about the Where question. It's more than a question.

[Huinesoron]

"Where now the horse and the rider?"

Eorl the Young rode south with wings of cavalry to aid Gondor as he promised, past dark Mirkwood and golden Lorien (and through a cloud of enchantment from the latter, I vaguely recall). Depending on how you read it, he is now ruling in Rohan, lying in a barrow, or beyond the circles of the world.

Alternately, Theoden the Old kept the same promise in the same manner, passing the White Mountains and the dark Druadan Forest (which many say is enchanted). He wound up on the Pelennor fields, then in a barrow at Edoras or in the Timeless Halls with his forefathers.

hS

[Urwen]

Maybe Aredhel, who is now with Mandos, in Mandos.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

"Where now the horse and the rider?"

Eorl the Young rode south with wings of cavalry to aid Gondor as he promised, past dark Mirkwood and golden Lorien (and through a cloud of enchantment from the latter, I vaguely recall). Depending on how you read it, he is now ruling in Rohan, lying in a barrow, or beyond the circles of the world.

hS

Bravo! Eorl indeed. I had Felarof's winged deet in mind but everything else is exact.

The riddle was sort of inspired by your last one, got me digging through half-forgotten texts. I think the oath on Halifirien is a beautiful passage, and you really get a sense of the now multiple reasons it's called Holy.

Over to you!

[Huinesoron]

Okay! This is the last one I've got pre-written, so hopefully I don't wind up answering any more. ^_^ I think it's pretty easy.

Last of all to hold his office
In the tower tall and proud
Yet my fate would bring him sorrow
And dark thoughts leave his head bowed.

Borne was I by bonds of marriage
To the Mountains from the Sea
Twelve short years before strength failed me
Who am I?
And who is he?

hS

[Urwen]

Denethor and Finduilas is my first guess.

[Huinesoron]

And the first guess is the last, because that's exactly right. ^_^

Over to you, Urwen.

hS