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#1841 | |
Wight of the Old Forest
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#1842 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
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So, tho the identity you've named is not quite right, the area of Aule's 'making' in Arda is one and the same with the He of the riddle. And for very much similar reasons as you've given. Cheers Pervinca ![]() Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-01-2015 at 11:55 PM. |
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#1843 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
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#1844 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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I'll just move this to the new page and do a quick sum up of what's been figured out.
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2. Tho Pervinca has not quite the right identity for the 'He' in naming Aule, what he got right was that the 'He' in the riddle has/operates under the same 'portfolio' of expertise as Aule--crafting/manship. I'll add here that Aule's Dwarves were borne of Love of Eru even tho they also, it might be said, were begot of Vanity. Eru spared the Dwarves for love. But, love was not always the prime directive of other crafts of Vanity. So - a 'He' of Aulie's domain, yet not Aule, --master craftsperson-- who, metaphorically can and cannot beget 'progeny' (metaphor) as can Eru. I'm looking for responses, especially, to the particular questions in the riddle ![]() Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-01-2015 at 04:46 PM. |
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#1845 |
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
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All right, let's try to shed some more light into this darkness. From LotR Appendix B,The Tale of Years :
Second Age 1200 Sauron endeavours to seduce the Eldar. Gil-galad refuses to treat with him, but the smiths of Eregion are won over. The Númenoreans beginn to make permanent havens. + 300 = 1500 The Elven-smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of their skill. They begin the forging of the Rings of Power. + 90 = 1590 The Three Rings are completed in Eregion. With that in mind, the person addressed at the beginning must be Sauron, handsome and comely in his disguise as Annatar Lord of Gifts, Lord of the Seven and the three times three = Nine, but not of the Three. He can beget no children, as Evil cannot create but only mar, but wasn't he something like the project manager in charge of turning Elves into Orcs for Morgoth way back when?[/vague memory], so Orcs could be his metaphorical children? "Tall ships and tall kings" seems to refer to the Númenoreans building havens, as mentioned in the 1200 annal, and/or to the navy Tar-Minastir sent to aid Gil-galad. Im still hazy about the "disease" mentioned twice, and "the gate into the day" etc. The latter is obviously a quotation, but from where and said by whom? And how does it all hang together? (PS. - Pitchwife has a lot of great scenes all over the Second Chronicles. My favourite is when the First tells of her temptation by the Elohim, when one of them took the shape of an unstunted Pitchwife and she rejected him because he lacked her husband's heart and humour - awww! But I suppose we shouldn't take discussion of Giantish matters too far on this thread, lest the skwerlz descend on us. ![]()
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#1846 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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I did think of Annatar, and Frodo's answer regarding the orcs (and whether they eat and drink): 'the shadow that made them can only mock; it cannot make.'
Not as eloquently as Pitchwife, though. ![]() Could the disease be the unwholesomeness that Sauron brought to two different places when, after his fall, he took up residence there? Mirkwood, due to his proximity (in Dol Guldur - is that right - ie is it near Mirkwood?) and then in Mordor. (I'm not sure Mordor was particularly a health-spa before he went back there, though). ![]()
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 07-02-2015 at 12:31 PM. |
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#1847 | ||||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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Hey there Pitchwife
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The ideas about evil not being able to beget children and marring I used. I was a bit off the mark with that one in some ways. I don't think Sauron ever 'made' anything living of his own, that I can recall. Morgoth had tanties and spat his dummy marring Eru's creations - with a project manager. But, I kinda ![]() Quote:
If they were do we have Ringwraith candidates from The Land of Gifts? Might have appealed to a Numenorean from a disaffected blood line. (Actually, sounds wrong. I can never seem to remember when exactly Ringwraiths appear. I think its' around 800 or 900 TA. But that doesn't say anything about 'when' a man received one of the Nine and then 'how long' it all took. But we never found out which three Numenoreans became wraiths. We know that when the Witchking was standing, his knee was where Merry cleaved undead flesh (I think Merry was kneeling). Tolkien used the words "mighty knee" to describe the Witchking in a reference to stature. So what's left? Quote:
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There is a clue in Pitchwife's bodily bearing, actually, that aligns with the Riddle. It's interesting, isn't it, the strange coincidences. Pitchwife's 'spirits' and 'heart' of Giant were 'not diseased' -- in fact a Giant of such moving beauty, joy and great loyalty and love - Even though, I seem to recall, his deformation was, by part, affliction of the Bane in the background, creeping over the world - Sunbane. The next poster follows this idea on. Thanx so much for the responses, Pitchwife, and kind regards Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-02-2015 at 07:06 PM. |
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#1848 | |||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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The Noldor in Eregion missed it from 1200 to the disaster of 1590. Quote:
One Spa to Rule them All One Spa to Filter them One Spa to Wraith-ise those Germs And in the Armpit Grow them! hahahahah Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-02-2015 at 07:01 PM. |
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#1849 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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the one item of the riddle - i'll complete. It's minor, and wasn't asked as a question.
"Lofty Lord to Those, yet not so to These..." Referred to Annatar's initial coming, I think it was in Lindon, where he spoke to Cirdan's mob, and they thought he seemed a bit off colour, so they sent Mr Bad Boi Annatar (with aftershave that smelt fine, but seemed foul), to the Noldor in Eregion (and let's face it. After the Kinslaying, they all had a bit of that same aftershave thing - a bit of stench, of the UNsmell kind. Noldor were never the best judges of character. Seemed a thread thru Aule's aligned persons. The Noldor, most gifted in Crafting. Sauron, the renegade Maia of Aule's domain. And Aule - who wrought some off-centre things in crafting - but redeemed were the Mighty Dwarves and truly, as well, their 'firmament', bearing Aule, most resistant to even a Maia of Aule's realm: nigh immunity to the seven. Interesting all the cross-themes, in this one, I found Thanx for the responses Whose Next? You two decide ![]() |
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#1850 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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Pitchwife did the vast majority of the work. I'd say it's definitely over to Pitchwife.
![]() (Also, although I have loads of experience in writing cryptic clues, I don't think I've ever written a riddle). (By the way, the first disease I thought of was the one that carried off Lalaith, but then I realised I was in the wrong Age). ![]()
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 07-03-2015 at 05:53 AM. Reason: I'd typed 'Cryptic Rules' instead of 'cryptic clues.' |
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#1851 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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#1852 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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![]() Say - why don't u wait for Pitwife to caste his riddle - then - add in a 'duo riddle' concept - i.e. write either of: 1. An Extension. 2. An Inversion. 3. An Augmentation or simple Second Verse - that somehow links theme one (Pitwife) to ur Theme Two then we all gotta Duo Riddle to answer ![]() Interested? :anyone else want to pipe up to say 'yay or nay'? |
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#1853 |
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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Butbutbut what's the solution to the riddle as a whole? Sauron? Rings of Power? Or is there even one? *scratches head in confusion*
OK anyway, if you consider this riddle solved I can try to cobble something together in the next couple of days, but I'm a bit rusty, so if Pervinca has something up her sleeve I'm fine with her going ahead. As for the timeline, the Rings of Power (including the One) were forged roughly in the middle of the Second Age, whereas the big action with Ar-Pharazôn was about millennium and a half after that, with the Nazgûl first appearing inbetween, in S.A. 2251. I notice you seem fascinated with Sauron's erotic life, Ivriniel! ![]() ![]() (As for my namesake and his creator, much as I'd like to talk about them at greater length I really feel we shouldn't clutter the Riddles thread with that, but if you're interested in discussing Tolkien with an eye on Donaldson (or Donaldson with an eye on Tolkien), I made a thread about Donaldson's reading of LotR a few years ago; we could revive it and move over there, or you could just PM me. Cheers! ![]() EDIT: x-ed with the two of you by half an hour. I really shouldn't post from work! *rolleyes-at-self*
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#1854 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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Psssst! Come and play in the Password thread too!
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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#1855 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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![]() “Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree." The end of the riddle - it's the end of the Tale of the Years for the tale of years told in rhyme Quote:
I'll answer the riddle - explained in Rhyme ![]() ![]() Numenor, being founded after The War of Wrath, Yea! Earendil went forth with Vingilot And Elros, brother twin, founded Estel in Wandering Thence far off into the Night Annatar - Lord of Gifts he bore Unlight First to Lindon, Cirdan's Realm A land of Farsight Straight, True and Clear Where Palantir Emyn Beriad to Tol Eresea its glance And so tho Cirdan was of Nolddorin kind He Bore Unsight, yet true so sees Annatar's Hue it so seeming light, yet as tho by some art, So say Cirdan, Nay Annatar! Lord not is one who bears Gifts Into the Night though shalt roam be not our Kin and Home And so, fled Annatar unto Celebrimbor's Abode Where it was that he pondered long Galadriel's sending away of Feanor's kin without love's bond For Galadriel, she did, refuse Celebrimbor's hand to wed For was it not so, that unfriends with Feanor she was unto the End And woe, then now for that is how Annatar found a foothold The Elessar tho Galadriel held, the love of Celebrimbor's Hope And while hearts wounded pondered long Celebrimbor's hand, Annatar did hold And under the moon and starlight said Ai! Annatar - Celebrimbor deceived who seemed himself said a Ring I see Foreseen Tonight Nay Three I see of Elvenkind - tho doom was wrought, for it was Annatar who spoke and Celebrimbor so heard what was seen and so thus it was Yet Three Time Three again for Men For Governace of Mortal needs Unsight Yet not the Kind Cirdan holds well And so it was Celebrimbor fell For Sauron's words 'Unsight' meant 'Unwell' but only for Men And that is how Celebrimbor missed the Ring Spell And long Sauron wrought his Unliving Children's Hell 'The Nine he wrought and Seven as well And from 1500 to 1950 - Gwaith I Mirdain Cirdan knew so well A Hall of Great Lore, of Elven Spell and Realm Valinor nigh even as well Thus, Celebrimbor Fell For Valinor in Middle Earth, a Vanity of Sauron's head For though Elf wrought Ring of Sparing and Unfading Long Yet still, one thread alone of Middle Earth Was what Sauron needed to Weave One around all Eslave all and yet be One, to Rule them All, through Slave of Birth, Narya! Vilya! Nenya Free! Yet one thread each of Middle Earth's Realm each must have held And so on Orodruin's Night in -- not Unsight -- but Unlight that is of Ea Running in the Inverse Ash Nazg Durbataluk - Orodruin's Might Ash Nazg Gimbatul - Orodruin's Despite Ash Nazg Thrakataluk - Orodruin's Unlife Ach Burzum Ishi Krimpatul - Orodruin's laugh Unto Midnight It is 1590 - the Dawn of the Dark Night The Orcs they came and feasted on Elven Light They hacked and maimed the Ost-In-Edhil - Eregion's Plight Celebrimbor he stood, at the Mirdain's Gate The Hordes of Hate and glee of greed's might Transgressed and trammelled Cirdan's last Rite His head, they hewed and put upon a pike And as Sauron feasted in Unlight The Banners and Helms - Ai! It is the Numenoreans! Look at their eyes - sea grey Elven in Starlight They Call with Voice of Valinor's Sight And despoiled the despoilers Sauron Vanquished Yet still foreboding - Ar Pharazon is Coming And Doom's Footsteps unhalting Until The Witchking's Making Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-03-2015 at 10:21 AM. |
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#1856 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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#1857 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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I just had a thought - Cirdan must have viewed Tol Erestea from the Tower of Emyn Beriad. So, when Annatar came to Middle Earth, perhaps it was Cirdan's communications (there were other Palantiri in Valinor) or just viewing of the Uttermost West - even that would have been enough, 'extra' clarity of Sight True - to see through Annatar - just a thought.
Far forwards in time, then, when Galadriel and Gandalf bore the Palantir from Lindon to Valinor. If the Stones had sentience it must have had a very long time in Emyn Beriad alone - a merry journey then that Stone and glad to be going Home. ...thanx again for ur posts - who's gunna write one... Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-03-2015 at 09:50 AM. |
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#1858 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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So who is next?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1859 |
Wight of the Old Forest
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Unattended on the railway station, in the litter at the dancehall
Posts: 3,329
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It seems I was, but I forgot all about it
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
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#1860 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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A kind offer, Pitchwife, but I never seem to have ideas for riddles, although I like making up cryptic clues.
Would anyone like to write the next riddle?
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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#1861 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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I could, and will steer clear of my two obsessions. Let me think of one.
Okay, here goes Though we went through thick and thin Our company had dissolved in this time frame I, the last one standing, Shall now take all the blame I was afraid Afraid of what might happen to our kin And because of this worry I have fallen into sin Now, even if I am estranged, And no longer within reach I could at least rest knowing That we have been avenged Not too good, but I think it's pretty good for something made on spur-of-a-moment.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1862 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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Is this Turin, Urwen? He always seemed to end up alone, and he certainly ended up with a lot of blood on his hands.
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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#1863 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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Nope. I did say I will steer clear from my obsessions, which means no la familia or Tar-Miriel.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1864 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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OK. I didn't know what your obsessions were when I posted.
![]() The riddle's narrator sounds kind of dwarvish, I think.
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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#1865 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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Nope, not a dwarf.
Hint: the narrator isn't actually the last one standing, but since the final member of group is somewhere else, he is the last one of those that were there. Hope it isn't too confusing.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 08-25-2015 at 05:08 AM. |
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#1866 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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It makes me think of the son of Feanor left singing in regret and remorse ... was it Maglor?
Tar-Miriel is Numenorean, I think, not Finwe's first wife? So I am not in the territory of your two obsessions. ![]()
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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#1867 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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Not that either, but you have the right book on that last one. Maglor is the last one for real.
Also, Urwen's interesting info: Hin Hurin are my la familia. The screen name I have is the birth name of one of them. This has been Urwen's interesting info.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 08-25-2015 at 06:02 AM. |
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#1868 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Treetops, C/O Great Smials
Posts: 5,035
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I know who Urwen is, Urwen.
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." |
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#1869 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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Good, you figured out my real identity, now can you figure out the identity of my mystery dude?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1870 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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Celebrimbor O Eregion?
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#1871 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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Nope.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1872 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 430
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What about Mim?
Last edited by Ivriniel; 11-09-2015 at 05:46 AM. |
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#1873 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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Right age, wrong answer.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1874 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,360
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I'm thinking Gorlim, who gave in to Sauron fearing for his wife, and who posthumously let Beren know about his treason so that Beren would avenge the group...
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#1875 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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Yessire.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1876 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,360
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When creativity runs low, I turn to cryptics. 'mfraid it's not too original, but should be fun to piece together.
My first is exactly the same as my fourth. My second died out in the South, not the North. My third and my fourth stand 'twixt hoops and their master, Between bird and light, who saved lands from disaster. My fifth is the colour of heroes and dragons. My sixth is a fancy and glorified cabin. Put them together, but that's not the answer: My name that was given at birth's what you're after. Happy riddling!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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#1877 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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My answer is Ereinion, better known by his second name, which fits the clues. However, I am not so sure.....'fancy, glorified cabin' and 'the bird of light' clues have me stuck....
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1878 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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It's been a while, Urwen. I wonder if G55 even remembers the answer?
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"Even Nerwen wasn't evil in the beginning." –Elmo. |
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#1879 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Meneltarma
Posts: 5,380
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Well, if she doesn't confirm and deny it within 72 hours, then we can declare it open?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
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#1880 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: The realm of forgotten words
Posts: 10,360
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I didn't remember it, but I was able to figure it out based on a vague memory of one of the clues.
You can't get the answer from the last lines. Ereinion does not fit any of the clues except that he has two names - but so do many othets. What are his six? It's cryptic, which means you have to solve each line separately first before you can get the answer. Give it a shot!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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