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07-01-2015, 02:04 PM | #1841 |
Wight of the Old Forest
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Oh gods, after all these years finally someone who gets it! Well met, I say!
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
07-01-2015, 04:33 PM | #1842 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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So, tho the identity you've named is not quite right, the area of Aule's 'making' in Arda is one and the same with the He of the riddle. And for very much similar reasons as you've given. Cheers Pervinca Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-01-2015 at 11:55 PM. |
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07-01-2015, 04:37 PM | #1843 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Truly I got to thinking about The First and Pitchwife and their most beautiful union after seeing your Avatar. I remember Pitchwife also during the repair of the main mast of the Dromond, which was another of the moments that have stayed with me over the decades.
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07-01-2015, 04:43 PM | #1844 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I'll just move this to the new page and do a quick sum up of what's been figured out.
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2. Tho Pervinca has not quite the right identity for the 'He' in naming Aule, what he got right was that the 'He' in the riddle has/operates under the same 'portfolio' of expertise as Aule--crafting/manship. I'll add here that Aule's Dwarves were borne of Love of Eru even tho they also, it might be said, were begot of Vanity. Eru spared the Dwarves for love. But, love was not always the prime directive of other crafts of Vanity. So - a 'He' of Aulie's domain, yet not Aule, --master craftsperson-- who, metaphorically can and cannot beget 'progeny' (metaphor) as can Eru. I'm looking for responses, especially, to the particular questions in the riddle cheers everyone Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-01-2015 at 04:46 PM. |
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07-02-2015, 11:18 AM | #1845 |
Wight of the Old Forest
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An investigation of history, smithcraft and numerology
All right, let's try to shed some more light into this darkness. From LotR Appendix B,The Tale of Years :
Second Age 1200 Sauron endeavours to seduce the Eldar. Gil-galad refuses to treat with him, but the smiths of Eregion are won over. The Númenoreans beginn to make permanent havens. + 300 = 1500 The Elven-smiths instructed by Sauron reach the height of their skill. They begin the forging of the Rings of Power. + 90 = 1590 The Three Rings are completed in Eregion. With that in mind, the person addressed at the beginning must be Sauron, handsome and comely in his disguise as Annatar Lord of Gifts, Lord of the Seven and the three times three = Nine, but not of the Three. He can beget no children, as Evil cannot create but only mar, but wasn't he something like the project manager in charge of turning Elves into Orcs for Morgoth way back when?[/vague memory], so Orcs could be his metaphorical children? "Tall ships and tall kings" seems to refer to the Númenoreans building havens, as mentioned in the 1200 annal, and/or to the navy Tar-Minastir sent to aid Gil-galad. Im still hazy about the "disease" mentioned twice, and "the gate into the day" etc. The latter is obviously a quotation, but from where and said by whom? And how does it all hang together? (PS. - Pitchwife has a lot of great scenes all over the Second Chronicles. My favourite is when the First tells of her temptation by the Elohim, when one of them took the shape of an unstunted Pitchwife and she rejected him because he lacked her husband's heart and humour - awww! But I suppose we shouldn't take discussion of Giantish matters too far on this thread, lest the skwerlz descend on us.)
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
07-02-2015, 12:27 PM | #1846 |
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I did think of Annatar, and Frodo's answer regarding the orcs (and whether they eat and drink): 'the shadow that made them can only mock; it cannot make.'
Not as eloquently as Pitchwife, though. Could the disease be the unwholesomeness that Sauron brought to two different places when, after his fall, he took up residence there? Mirkwood, due to his proximity (in Dol Guldur - is that right - ie is it near Mirkwood?) and then in Mordor. (I'm not sure Mordor was particularly a health-spa before he went back there, though).
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 07-02-2015 at 12:31 PM. |
07-02-2015, 06:41 PM | #1847 | ||||||
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Hey there Pitchwife excellent numerology hahaha - we'll have to set u up with a shopfront and advertise
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The ideas about evil not being able to beget children and marring I used. I was a bit off the mark with that one in some ways. I don't think Sauron ever 'made' anything living of his own, that I can recall. Morgoth had tanties and spat his dummy marring Eru's creations - with a project manager. But, I kinda decided Ringwraiths were Sauron's children. Definitely had anti-social tendencies, as did Sauron's Vampires, and I think also he did the Werewolves (of Tol Sirion, FA, I think). Quote:
If they were do we have Ringwraith candidates from The Land of Gifts? Might have appealed to a Numenorean from a disaffected blood line. (Actually, sounds wrong. I can never seem to remember when exactly Ringwraiths appear. I think its' around 800 or 900 TA. But that doesn't say anything about 'when' a man received one of the Nine and then 'how long' it all took. But we never found out which three Numenoreans became wraiths. We know that when the Witchking was standing, his knee was where Merry cleaved undead flesh (I think Merry was kneeling). Tolkien used the words "mighty knee" to describe the Witchking in a reference to stature. So what's left? Quote:
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There is a clue in Pitchwife's bodily bearing, actually, that aligns with the Riddle. It's interesting, isn't it, the strange coincidences. Pitchwife's 'spirits' and 'heart' of Giant were 'not diseased' -- in fact a Giant of such moving beauty, joy and great loyalty and love - Even though, I seem to recall, his deformation was, by part, affliction of the Bane in the background, creeping over the world - Sunbane. The next poster follows this idea on. Thanx so much for the responses, Pitchwife, and kind regards Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-02-2015 at 07:06 PM. |
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07-02-2015, 06:52 PM | #1848 | |||
Shade of Carn Dûm
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The Noldor in Eregion missed it from 1200 to the disaster of 1590. Quote:
One Spa to Rule them All One Spa to Filter them One Spa to Wraith-ise those Germs And in the Armpit Grow them! hahahahah Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-02-2015 at 07:01 PM. |
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07-02-2015, 06:58 PM | #1849 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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the one item of the riddle - i'll complete. It's minor, and wasn't asked as a question.
"Lofty Lord to Those, yet not so to These..." Referred to Annatar's initial coming, I think it was in Lindon, where he spoke to Cirdan's mob, and they thought he seemed a bit off colour, so they sent Mr Bad Boi Annatar (with aftershave that smelt fine, but seemed foul), to the Noldor in Eregion (and let's face it. After the Kinslaying, they all had a bit of that same aftershave thing - a bit of stench, of the UNsmell kind. Noldor were never the best judges of character. Seemed a thread thru Aule's aligned persons. The Noldor, most gifted in Crafting. Sauron, the renegade Maia of Aule's domain. And Aule - who wrought some off-centre things in crafting - but redeemed were the Mighty Dwarves and truly, as well, their 'firmament', bearing Aule, most resistant to even a Maia of Aule's realm: nigh immunity to the seven. Interesting all the cross-themes, in this one, I found Thanx for the responses Whose Next? You two decide |
07-03-2015, 05:45 AM | #1850 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Pitchwife did the vast majority of the work. I'd say it's definitely over to Pitchwife.
(Also, although I have loads of experience in writing cryptic clues, I don't think I've ever written a riddle). (By the way, the first disease I thought of was the one that carried off Lalaith, but then I realised I was in the wrong Age).
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"Sit by the firelight's glow; tell us an old tale we know. Tell of adventures strange and rare; never to change, ever to share! Stories we tell will cast their spell, now and for always." Last edited by Pervinca Took; 07-03-2015 at 05:53 AM. Reason: I'd typed 'Cryptic Rules' instead of 'cryptic clues.' |
07-03-2015, 05:50 AM | #1851 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I'm sure it'll be perfectly perfect, |
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07-03-2015, 05:57 AM | #1852 | |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Say - why don't u wait for Pitwife to caste his riddle - then - add in a 'duo riddle' concept - i.e. write either of: 1. An Extension. 2. An Inversion. 3. An Augmentation or simple Second Verse - that somehow links theme one (Pitwife) to ur Theme Two then we all gotta Duo Riddle to answer Interested? :anyone else want to pipe up to say 'yay or nay'? |
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07-03-2015, 06:28 AM | #1853 |
Wight of the Old Forest
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Butbutbut what's the solution to the riddle as a whole? Sauron? Rings of Power? Or is there even one? *scratches head in confusion*
OK anyway, if you consider this riddle solved I can try to cobble something together in the next couple of days, but I'm a bit rusty, so if Pervinca has something up her sleeve I'm fine with her going ahead. As for the timeline, the Rings of Power (including the One) were forged roughly in the middle of the Second Age, whereas the big action with Ar-Pharazôn was about millennium and a half after that, with the Nazgûl first appearing inbetween, in S.A. 2251. I notice you seem fascinated with Sauron's erotic life, Ivriniel! I'm not sure if he indulged in such pursuits at all, being a Maia, but if he did, I think he would have used sex as a tool for domination only (if you've read the Gap series, think of Angus Thermopyle with less mother issues, more self control and way more malice). (As for my namesake and his creator, much as I'd like to talk about them at greater length I really feel we shouldn't clutter the Riddles thread with that, but if you're interested in discussing Tolkien with an eye on Donaldson (or Donaldson with an eye on Tolkien), I made a thread about Donaldson's reading of LotR a few years ago; we could revive it and move over there, or you could just PM me. Cheers!) EDIT: x-ed with the two of you by half an hour. I really shouldn't post from work! *rolleyes-at-self*
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
07-03-2015, 07:02 AM | #1854 |
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Psssst! Come and play in the Password thread too!
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07-03-2015, 08:01 AM | #1855 | ||
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Quote:
“Tall ships and tall kings Three times three, What brought they from the foundered land Over the flowing sea? Seven stars and seven stones And one white tree." The end of the riddle - it's the end of the Tale of the Years for the tale of years told in rhyme Quote:
I'll answer the riddle - explained in Rhyme Numenor, being founded after The War of Wrath, Yea! Earendil went forth with Vingilot And Elros, brother twin, founded Estel in Wandering Thence far off into the Night Annatar - Lord of Gifts he bore Unlight First to Lindon, Cirdan's Realm A land of Farsight Straight, True and Clear Where Palantir Emyn Beriad to Tol Eresea its glance And so tho Cirdan was of Nolddorin kind He Bore Unsight, yet true so sees Annatar's Hue it so seeming light, yet as tho by some art, So say Cirdan, Nay Annatar! Lord not is one who bears Gifts Into the Night though shalt roam be not our Kin and Home And so, fled Annatar unto Celebrimbor's Abode Where it was that he pondered long Galadriel's sending away of Feanor's kin without love's bond For Galadriel, she did, refuse Celebrimbor's hand to wed For was it not so, that unfriends with Feanor she was unto the End And woe, then now for that is how Annatar found a foothold The Elessar tho Galadriel held, the love of Celebrimbor's Hope And while hearts wounded pondered long Celebrimbor's hand, Annatar did hold And under the moon and starlight said Ai! Annatar - Celebrimbor deceived who seemed himself said a Ring I see Foreseen Tonight Nay Three I see of Elvenkind - tho doom was wrought, for it was Annatar who spoke and Celebrimbor so heard what was seen and so thus it was Yet Three Time Three again for Men For Governace of Mortal needs Unsight Yet not the Kind Cirdan holds well And so it was Celebrimbor fell For Sauron's words 'Unsight' meant 'Unwell' but only for Men And that is how Celebrimbor missed the Ring Spell And long Sauron wrought his Unliving Children's Hell 'The Nine he wrought and Seven as well And from 1500 to 1950 - Gwaith I Mirdain Cirdan knew so well A Hall of Great Lore, of Elven Spell and Realm Valinor nigh even as well Thus, Celebrimbor Fell For Valinor in Middle Earth, a Vanity of Sauron's head For though Elf wrought Ring of Sparing and Unfading Long Yet still, one thread alone of Middle Earth Was what Sauron needed to Weave One around all Eslave all and yet be One, to Rule them All, through Slave of Birth, Narya! Vilya! Nenya Free! Yet one thread each of Middle Earth's Realm each must have held And so on Orodruin's Night in -- not Unsight -- but Unlight that is of Ea Running in the Inverse Ash Nazg Durbataluk - Orodruin's Might Ash Nazg Gimbatul - Orodruin's Despite Ash Nazg Thrakataluk - Orodruin's Unlife Ach Burzum Ishi Krimpatul - Orodruin's laugh Unto Midnight It is 1590 - the Dawn of the Dark Night The Orcs they came and feasted on Elven Light They hacked and maimed the Ost-In-Edhil - Eregion's Plight Celebrimbor he stood, at the Mirdain's Gate The Hordes of Hate and glee of greed's might Transgressed and trammelled Cirdan's last Rite His head, they hewed and put upon a pike And as Sauron feasted in Unlight The Banners and Helms - Ai! It is the Numenoreans! Look at their eyes - sea grey Elven in Starlight They Call with Voice of Valinor's Sight And despoiled the despoilers Sauron Vanquished Yet still foreboding - Ar Pharazon is Coming And Doom's Footsteps unhalting Until The Witchking's Making Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-03-2015 at 10:21 AM. |
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07-03-2015, 08:10 AM | #1856 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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07-03-2015, 08:22 AM | #1857 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I just had a thought - Cirdan must have viewed Tol Erestea from the Tower of Emyn Beriad. So, when Annatar came to Middle Earth, perhaps it was Cirdan's communications (there were other Palantiri in Valinor) or just viewing of the Uttermost West - even that would have been enough, 'extra' clarity of Sight True - to see through Annatar - just a thought.
Far forwards in time, then, when Galadriel and Gandalf bore the Palantir from Lindon to Valinor. If the Stones had sentience it must have had a very long time in Emyn Beriad alone - a merry journey then that Stone and glad to be going Home. ...thanx again for ur posts - who's gunna write one... Last edited by Ivriniel; 07-03-2015 at 09:50 AM. |
08-23-2015, 11:05 AM | #1858 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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So who is next?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
08-23-2015, 11:37 AM | #1859 |
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It seems I was, but I forgot all about it and I don't even have the beginning of an idea. I'd like to pass my turn on to Pervinca because the two of us solved the last one together, but if she doesn't want it or is unavailable anyone can go ahead.
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Und aus dem Erebos kamen viele seelen herauf der abgeschiedenen toten.- Homer, Odyssey, Canto XI |
08-23-2015, 03:24 PM | #1860 |
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A kind offer, Pitchwife, but I never seem to have ideas for riddles, although I like making up cryptic clues.
Would anyone like to write the next riddle?
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08-23-2015, 03:54 PM | #1861 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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I could, and will steer clear of my two obsessions. Let me think of one.
Okay, here goes Though we went through thick and thin Our company had dissolved in this time frame I, the last one standing, Shall now take all the blame I was afraid Afraid of what might happen to our kin And because of this worry I have fallen into sin Now, even if I am estranged, And no longer within reach I could at least rest knowing That we have been avenged Not too good, but I think it's pretty good for something made on spur-of-a-moment.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
08-25-2015, 04:28 AM | #1862 |
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Is this Turin, Urwen? He always seemed to end up alone, and he certainly ended up with a lot of blood on his hands.
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08-25-2015, 04:52 AM | #1863 |
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Nope. I did say I will steer clear from my obsessions, which means no la familia or Tar-Miriel.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
08-25-2015, 04:57 AM | #1864 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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OK. I didn't know what your obsessions were when I posted.
The riddle's narrator sounds kind of dwarvish, I think.
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08-25-2015, 05:03 AM | #1865 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Nope, not a dwarf.
Hint: the narrator isn't actually the last one standing, but since the final member of group is somewhere else, he is the last one of those that were there. Hope it isn't too confusing.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 08-25-2015 at 05:08 AM. |
08-25-2015, 05:11 AM | #1866 |
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It makes me think of the son of Feanor left singing in regret and remorse ... was it Maglor?
Tar-Miriel is Numenorean, I think, not Finwe's first wife? So I am not in the territory of your two obsessions.
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08-25-2015, 05:12 AM | #1867 |
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Not that either, but you have the right book on that last one. Maglor is the last one for real.
Also, Urwen's interesting info: Hin Hurin are my la familia. The screen name I have is the birth name of one of them. This has been Urwen's interesting info.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. Last edited by Urwen; 08-25-2015 at 06:02 AM. |
08-25-2015, 06:56 AM | #1868 |
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I know who Urwen is, Urwen.
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08-25-2015, 07:19 AM | #1869 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Good, you figured out my real identity, now can you figure out the identity of my mystery dude?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
11-08-2015, 04:14 PM | #1870 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Celebrimbor O Eregion?
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11-09-2015, 04:51 AM | #1871 |
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Nope.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
11-09-2015, 05:24 AM | #1872 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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What about Mim?
Last edited by Ivriniel; 11-09-2015 at 05:46 AM. |
11-09-2015, 07:27 AM | #1873 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Right age, wrong answer.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
11-09-2015, 02:47 PM | #1874 |
Blossom of Dwimordene
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I'm thinking Gorlim, who gave in to Sauron fearing for his wife, and who posthumously let Beren know about his treason so that Beren would avenge the group...
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11-09-2015, 03:03 PM | #1875 |
Spirit of Nen Lalaith
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Yessire.
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
11-10-2015, 01:51 PM | #1876 |
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When creativity runs low, I turn to cryptics. 'mfraid it's not too original, but should be fun to piece together.
My first is exactly the same as my fourth. My second died out in the South, not the North. My third and my fourth stand 'twixt hoops and their master, Between bird and light, who saved lands from disaster. My fifth is the colour of heroes and dragons. My sixth is a fancy and glorified cabin. Put them together, but that's not the answer: My name that was given at birth's what you're after. Happy riddling!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
01-26-2017, 10:42 AM | #1877 |
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My answer is Ereinion, better known by his second name, which fits the clues. However, I am not so sure.....'fancy, glorified cabin' and 'the bird of light' clues have me stuck....
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
01-26-2017, 11:15 PM | #1878 |
Wisest of the Noldor
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It's been a while, Urwen. I wonder if G55 even remembers the answer?
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01-27-2017, 02:09 AM | #1879 |
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Well, if she doesn't confirm and deny it within 72 hours, then we can declare it open?
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Tuor: Yeah, it was me who broke [Morleg's] arm. With a wrench. Specifically, this wrench. I am suffering from Maeglinomaniacal Maeglinophilia. |
01-27-2017, 04:59 AM | #1880 |
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I didn't remember it, but I was able to figure it out based on a vague memory of one of the clues.
You can't get the answer from the last lines. Ereinion does not fit any of the clues except that he has two names - but so do many othets. What are his six? It's cryptic, which means you have to solve each line separately first before you can get the answer. Give it a shot!
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You passed from under darkened dome, you enter now the secret land. - Take me to Finrod's fabled home!... ~ Finrod: The Rock Opera |
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