6 Degrees of Separation

[Urwen]

Mine is Gorbag - Shagrat - Mouth of Sauron - Gandalf - Gwaihir - Thorondor

[Morsul the Dark]

Both use Gwaihir which is a connection I missed, I looked up an obscure character (to me) I didn’t realize being immortal he and Gwaihir rescued some folks together. I think Urwen uses less assumptions. So Urwen I think gets it

My initial track was Gorbag slain by Sam friend of Elrond son Ereandil who led the eagles into battle alongside Thorondor.

[Urwen]

Here is a tough cookie

Zimraphel - > Eldacar

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Here is a tough cookie

Zimraphel - > Eldacar

So... which Eldacar? Because Eldacar of Arnor was the grandson of Isildur, which gives us:

Zimraphel > Elendil > Isildur > Valandil > Eldacar.

But there's also an Eldacar of Gondor, who I admit would be a mite trickier.

hS

[Urwen]

The one of Gondor.

[Huinesoron]

I've been trying to reach an immortal by hopping down the family tree to the Princes of Dol Amroth, but I wind up with Amroth as #9, so it's way too long.

hS

[Urwen]

In that case, I'll accept your first answer.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

In that case, I'll accept your first answer.

But my first answer was not correct (except technically, which is the best kind of correct).

I wouldn't be able to put up another one tonight anyway, so there's no harm letting people think for longer than 12 hours.

hS

[Huinesoron]

So then, where can we go from Eldacar?

-Down towards Mithrellas. This takes far too many steps.

-Across to Castamir the Usurper. So far as I can tell, Castamir and his descendents never had direct contact with Sauron, so this looks like a dead end.

-Up to his Northman ancestry. But where then? They're entirely self-contained, and their battles contain no named enemies (for instance, Nazgul).

-Up the family tree? Eldacar directly overlaps as far up as Calmacil, who overlaps up to Hyarmendacil I, who overlaps up to Falastar and Beruthiel. That's nine Kings of Gondor; surely at least one of them must have met Gil-Galad or someone?

... no. Apparently not. Not according to their own Gateway pages, at any rate.

So who might have run into the Kings of Gondor? Saruman is an option, but he was in the East for most of this time period. Galadriel and Celeborn maybe; apparently they were hanging out in Edhellond, but there's no recorded contact with Minas Anor. Amroth and Elrond seem to have kept to themselves.

How about this?

-Eldacar overlaps by 110 years with his grandfather
-Romendacil II, who built the
-Pillars of the Arganoth, which were later passed by
-Aragorn, who was fostered by
-Elrond, who fought alongside
-Elendil, who knew
-Zimraphel.

Only that's seven. But there is this:

-Eldacar fought in the Kin-Strife, during which the
-Osgiliath-stone was lost, having been originally placed by
-Elendil, who obviously knew
-Zimraphel?

Only, y'know... inanimate objects. So how about this?

-Eldacar overlapped by 36 years with his great-grandson
-Minardil, who overlapped by about fifty years with his grandson
-Tarondor, who planted the
-Third White Tree of Gondor, which was a sapling of the
-Second White Tree of Gondor, which was planted by
-Isildur, who knew
-Zimraphel.

Only living things, but it still hits seven.

Any pointers on where to start out?

hS

[Urwen]

Your second solution is good to go.

Try my riddle as well.

[Huinesoron]

So did your solution also go via the palantir of Orthanc? I'm insatiably curious.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

So did your solution also go via the palantir of Orthanc? I'm insatiably curious.

hS

I had no real solution. I just threw that one to be evil.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I had no real solution. I just threw that one to be evil.

:O You fiend!

So, the original Miriel was (according to one account) known as Firiel after her rebirth, since she was hanging out with Vaire. There are a couple of other Firiels, but let's do the less tragic* one:

Firiel (AKA Miriel) -- Firiel Fairbairn

(And if you can pass through Firiel of Gondor, so much the better!)

*Unless the connection of her with the Firiel of 'The Last Ship' is correct.

hS

[Urwen]

Firiel - Elanor - Sam - Elrond - Maedhros - Feanor - Firiel
Firiel - Elanor - Sam - Elrond - Maglor - Feanor - Firiel

I could try doing it in lesser steps, but it'd be difficult...

P.S: Could you try my riddle, or is it too much work for you?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Firiel - Elanor - Sam - Elrond - Maedhros - Feanor - Firiel
Firiel - Elanor - Sam - Elrond - Maglor - Feanor - Firiel

I could try doing it in lesser steps, but it'd be difficult...

Surely difficult is the point? It's been a while, but 'six degrees' means six names total, right?

hS

[Urwen]

Firiel Fairbairn - Elanor - Arwen - Galadriel - Feanor - Firiel

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Firiel Fairbairn - Elanor - Arwen - Galadriel - Feanor - Firiel

This works.

hS

[Urwen]

Speaking of same names......


Miriel - > Miriel

[Huinesoron]

I think one end of this has to be Gil-Galad/Elrond - Elendil - Miriel. There's no other avenues to Numenor apart from Sauron, and like the thread says, avoid.

Hmm... wait, I know someone who was close to Elrond:

Miriel > Feanor > Maglor > Elrond > Elendil > Miriel.

(Those are not 'greater than' signs. I would never place Feanor above Maglor.)

hS

[Urwen]

Spot on, and both me and my friend are glad you think so.

[Huinesoron]

Well, let's roll with the theme...

Firiel Fairbairn to Firiel of Gondor.

hS

[Urwen]

I have a link, but it goes through Sauron. Permission to use it?

[Urwen]

Ah-ha, found another link.

Firiel Fairbairn - Elanor - Sam - Cirdan - Aranarth - Firiel

(This with the assumption that Sam and Cirdan met when Sam sailed to the west)

[Urwen]

So....am I right, or am I not right?

[Huinesoron]

Yes, and good find with the Aranarth-Cirdan link.

hS

[Urwen]

How about Firiel of Gondor - Firiel?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

How about Firiel of Gondor - Firiel?

FIRIEL's son was
ARANARTH, whose gave the keeping of his son and heirlooms to
ELROND, who was himself the foster son of
MAGLOR, who was the son of
FEANOR, who was very taken with being the son of
FIRIEL aka Miriel Therinde.

hS

[Urwen]

Spot on, as I checked it out.

[Huinesoron]

Right then, this should please you: the two happiest characters in Middle-earth:

Merry Brandybuck -- Lalaith daughter of Húrin.

... without going through any member of House Finwë, because that lot are too miserable for this question.

hS

[Urwen]

I suppose Elrond does count as member of house Finwe.

Well then.

Merry - Celeborn - Thingol - Turin - Lalaith

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I suppose Elrond does count as member of house Finwe.

Well then.

Merry - Celeborn - Thingol - Turin - Lalaith

He does indeed. Your answer is what I got (though I suppose one could say Celeborn is a member too, by marriage... but that's going a little too far, don't you think?).

hS

[Urwen]

In honor of your Bad guy puzzle


Feanor - Ciryatan

[Morsul the Dark]

Fëanor > Melkor>Manwe> Atanamir> Ciryatan

Fëanor used by Melkor
Melkor to Manwe
Manwe corresponds with Atanamir son of Ciryatan

[Urwen]

The thread says to avoid using Morgoth or Sauron.

[Morsul the Dark]

I’ll keep looking technically unless it’s later on the original says avoid Saruman Gandalf and Sauron.

[Urwen]

Right, my bad. Please continue.

[Urwen]

Bump?

[Alphaelin]

Originally Posted by Urwen

In honor of your Bad guy puzzle


Feanor - Ciryatan

Feanor, half-brother of
Finarfin, father of
Angrod, father of
Orodreth, father of
Gil-Galad, who was fostered by
Cirdan, whose name in Quenya was Ciryatan

?

[Urwen]

Morsul?

[Urwen]

Okay, since Morsul won't continue this, anyone else up for taking over?