Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, discussion thread

[Boromir88]

I know Team Wolf have planned all along to release our night-chats; Boro, as Last Wolf Standing are you okay with your chat being published? I should be able to get stable versions of both up pretty quickly.~Huey

Please do! I only shared 2 of mine that were my favorites

Originally Posted by Rikae

Crossed with Boro ... me, seerish? Well, I guess getting killed as seerish is the best an ordo can hope for, but I reacted to Boro the way I did Day 1 because I was thinking vaguely " possible baddie, possible seer, just nudge him slightly and see how he reacts" Guess that kinda worked? :Not how I wanted!

Yep. When you said you planned a trap, I took your "I like lists" in your first post as a sign you were contradicting me without trying to draw too much attention. And that ended up with my scheming that was doomed from the start. I think it would have worked if it didn't actually end up protecting the real seer, but because of your suspicions of Brinn I chose to make it look like I was protecting her and Lommy.

After sally's lynch, I started stepping up the efforts to draw out the seer. Going after Lottie right at the start of the next day, but after Lottie's responses I backed off feeling pretty confident she wasn't the seer, but actually was the Innocent child.

Then when the QT voted Lhuna and after her lynching I thought I could try to look like the seer to draw the real one out. Lalaith picked up my slip at the end of the day. Which I guess hindsight any innocent could have done, but with her previous frustration with how openly people were discussing Kit's reveal, thought maybe that was a sign she was the seer.

Then with Pitch's reactions after Legate's death, and his reaction to the QT voting Rune the next day, we thought perhaps Pitch was the seer, who had not dreamed a wolf yet and he seemed frustrated/upset by people he dreamed innocent dying/being suspected. Funny the night we chose Pitch, THE Ka, Kath and I spent probably a combined 20 hours going through every post from every day and still didn't have any reason to believe the seer was Brinn at that time.

We caught Rune's "Telemus" clues, but found it hard to believe if he was the seer he surely would have dreamed of Eonwe by now.

Then after we killed Pitch, I don't know if I agree with Lommy saying I chickened out on just not going through with the "fake seer reveal" that I was setting up for. At that time THE Ka had said she was going to have trouble being around over the weekend and we didn't want her to obligated to survive, so let her relax with in the QT with her dead mates and G55. If I went through with a fake reveal, it would just leave Kath, and if I had not been dreamed yet, I surely was going to after all the "Yeah I'm not the seer, just tried to look like it."

So the plan then was it would be better not to fake a reveal, to try to kill the Seer (which I think was the night we decided on Shasta) for all of his "hot takes" being scary accurate. Then Brinn comes out and reveals she dreamed Kath and it was kind of all over. After that, I just said I wanted to have one shot at who the Innocent Child was (which I was pretty strongly convinced was Lottie, before she revealed).

And yes my early banter was a "let me try to find the cobbler" because my plan to start was to try to act like the cobbler and not have the village so easily willing to lynch me. And that had to be scrapped, but for being a 1 day cobbler, G55 caused quite a bit of distraction and destruction, particularly in the death of the ranger . That is a trade that wolf-me would make any day.

Boro - words actually fail me. When did you turn into the phantom 2.0?~Pitch

Well when Huey posts our planning, that was never my intention from the outset! ha. I wanted to stay limited and argue with a few people as possible to not leave any trail, then eventually thought I'd be lynched in 2-3 days. Turned out had to try something else and I threw every trick I could think of to draw out the seer. Brinn did not budge. It was remarkable.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

After sally's lynch, I started stepping up the efforts to draw out the seer. Going after Lottie right at the start of the next day, but after Lottie's responses I backed off feeling pretty confident she wasn't the seer, but actually was the Innocent child.


...


After that, I just said I wanted to have one shot at who the Innocent Child was (which I was pretty strongly convinced was Lottie, before she revealed).

I KNEW IT! I said that's what you were doing, I knew that was a wolf checking to see if I was the Seer!! Also, yeah, I figured between me and whichever of Rune or Boro wasn't the wolf, it would be pretty easy to figure out that I was the Innocent Child. So not coming out there would've meant I probably still died but the village had a slightly less guaranteed victory. Just how it turns out sometimes.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Sally, I'm so sorry. But the hunter really IS more fun when she gets to kill somebody, whatever the consequences.

It is, but it was so earlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! I was terrified I was going to take our last gifted with me, which is why I switched to Mac at the last moment, because I knew he was either a wolf or an ordo, and either way I preferred him to certain uncertainty. (Sorry again, Mac! There was a lot of panicked screaming over here that afternoon, I assure you.)

If it helps, I was convinced you were evil almost until the end.


On to cheers then. To the goodies first!

~

Massive kudos to Brinn for a role spectacularly played! Three cheers to the only gifted who managed to do her job and not get herself killed! Ahem.

I pegged you as the seer from close to the start and deliberately ignored you so I didn't get you killed with my fat mouth. Once I made it to the Dead Thread, the idea of us constantly voting for you (almost unanimously one Day!) was too good to pass up, and I knew it would cause enough chaos for your elegant self to hide behind.

~

Also kudos to Shasta for his valiant snackrifice, and for putting on such an entertaining show! Not so much for voting me though - my feathers are ruffled! (I jest!) I had suspicions you might be the Child but couldn't decide, and at one point I thought you had to be evil, though perhaps only because of the feather ruffling. <3

~

To Lottie, our little companion, many cheers to you as well. I read your "don't." post and somehow I just knew. You should have seen me hit the floor with my laptop and start frantically typing.

~

Last but not least, to Kit, who tried so hard but knee-jerked much like I did, resulting in her demise. It was still a joy to play with you, and a joy to hunt you right off the plague bat out of principle!



x'd with a host

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

To Lottie, our little companion, many cheers to you as well. I read your "don't." post and somehow I just knew. You should have seen me hit the floor with my laptop and start frantically typing.

I was like 80% sure you would pick it up, but it was such a nail-biting deadline! Also, that post was originally "DON'T.", but the Downs auto-uncaps it to "don't.", which actually conveyed the tone better...maybe the Downs itself was on my side.

[Huinesoron]

Since I'm not sure how well this stuff will stay together in the archives:

The Game Thread

The Quarantine Thread / Infirmary / QT-bar

And here's the night-chats:

The Living Pack's Night-chat

Which I set up on Google Docs and then promptly got quarantined out of; I fully intend to read it tomorrow.

And finally:

QT Wolf Perpetual Night-Chat

Wherein I monologue about possible Seers, we laugh ourselves silly over the QT's belief in BoroSeer, and go out still trying to come up with plans for the Days that never came.

hS

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I was like 80% sure you would pick it up, but it was such a nail-biting deadline! Also, that post was originally "DON'T.", but the Downs auto-uncaps it to "don't.", which actually conveyed the tone better...maybe the Downs itself was on my side.

I also posted in all caps, which is how I realized you were freaking out.

[Lhunardawen]

PPS. If we kill Brinn, that would be a riot toMorrow. Hahaha.
PPPS. I need coffee.

Me on the Wolf Chat, Night 2. Moral lesson of the story, maybe: Start listening to caffeine-less self.

[Thinlómien]

Very cosy with just G55 and Rikae, loved the surprise teaming up. This made me giggle:

Originally Posted by G55

Brinniel talks like she's on a sedative.
Boro talks like he's on a stimulant.

I love how the cuties hated the long poss even more than the living. This one made me snort:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Eonwe is now wall-of-text quote-posting... himself. I half thought he was trying to prove himself a wolf!

I want to laugh at Mac's conviction that Boro was the seer, but I don't think I can judge!

Generally, I'm quite comforted by the fact that the dead were just as confused as the living. I was somewhat terrified you guys had figured everything out and were yelling us how can we be so stupid.

Originally Posted by Mac

I reeeally hope Boro will dream of Greenie tonight. I will eat my mousepad if she's not evil.

How did it taste?

Originally Posted by Lhuna

Also I wish people would stop using [name of Downer]-alysis: it conjures images of the said Downer spontaneously bursting.

Sorry Lhuna! I am laughing at the mental images though, sorry again.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Also Lommy, debacle =/= debate!

But sometimes a thing can be both...? *innocent face*

Originally Posted by Pitch

I'm not averse to voting Steve (cats destroyed my AltGr key, so I can't spell Eonwe properly anymore)

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Anyway, thanks guys - all of you, really, the QT was a great read! I now understand why Legate has been laughing aloud while playing.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Last but not least, to Kit, who tried so hard but knee-jerked much like I did, resulting in her demise. It was still a joy to play with you, and a joy to hunt you right off the plague bat out of principle!

Sallycakes, you and are will be locked in this dance forever. I actually protected you Night 1 because I thought you'd make a good no trace kill.

Twas a lovely distraction from the real quarantine. I just wish I could keep up with all the posts throughout. I think Rune was onto something with a character limits game.

When Day 1 started and I was biting my nails trying to spot a wolf, my husband casually said "maybe I'll join the forum and play a game with you." I promptly screamed "you're not ready!" But really, is anyone ever ready for WW?

I missed you all!

[Brinniel]

I'm a little disappointed that I never got to play in the QT since I've never been in a dead thread before, but obviously it was more important that I stick around.

I must admit, I'm so proud of myself for actually succeeding in this role - I was a bit terrified when I learned I was the seer since I sort botched it last time I had the role (dreamt of Night kills, then got Night killed early on, yet the entire village couldn't figure out my dreams).

So my goal for this game was to stay alive as long as possible and dream of those who a) aren't likely to get quickly lynched or killed and b) wouldn't expect a seer-me to dream them. My plan was to leave clues but avoid being so obvious to point being caught and keep under the radar but not too much (I always think it's a good thing to be a little suspicious as the seer).

I did NOT expect to almost get lynched Day 1. That almost never happens to which is actually why I kept my cool when Rikae voted me - I wasn't expecting their suspicion of me to start a bandwagon. I think reading the wolves' conversation, they were wondering why I didn't reveal then - it crossed my mind, but after I saw all the votes and did the math I realized I probably didn't need to because Sally's vote wouldn't lynch me and I didn't expect Lalaith to return. It was a heart-pounding moment, but a risk that paid off.

As for my dreams, I PMed Nogs all my reasoning for who I chose each Night so that I could have somebody to talk at.

Night 1:

I chose Lommy because

First Nights are always tough, but this time I think it will be most helpful to pick someone who is an active participant and has a history of sticking around for several Days.

Night 2:

Phew...that was close!
Let's just pretend I meant for all that to happen.

In all seriousness, the Day has given me plenty to ponder over. There are certainly A LOT of players whose intentions I would like to know, but alas, I can only pick one.

I took some notes which helped me narrow it down to four, then down to one. So let's go with:

++Pitchwife

Right now I'm finding several players to be suspicious, Pitch included. The difference is that I think knowing his role (regardless of what it is) could be more telling of other players as well.

I can't remember who my other three suspects were - probably Inzil...and maybe Hui and Boro.

I can't believe how accurate that Hui bandwagon was from the innocents - there really wasn't any seer help there. I had a hunch that Hui might be evil the way he defended me the previous Day, but had not dreamt of him.

Night 3:

Why I chose Lhuna

There's plenty to scrutinize from yesterDay's later votes, which I think will be discussed heavily by the village toMorrow. So I would rather learn more about one of the earlier voters particularly someone who is flying under the radar as I imagine a wolf is hiding among them. Unfortunately that makes picking someone a shot in the dark, because I honestly have no clue which one could be evil!

This really was a lucky guess because I was very close to dreaming Greenie instead. I was quite gleeful that I found a wolf, yet I was not in a hurry to lynch her and make it too obvious. We had just lynched a wolf, so I knew I had an extra Day or two to observe her and hopefully find clues to other wolves. Unfortunately, she disappeared the next Day. I was actually a little bummed she got lynched the Day after because 1) I really wanted to lynch Inzil (sorry!) and 2) it was nice to have a known wolf in my back pocket should I need to reveal. The good thing was that since the village seemed set on lynching her, I was able to step back and go along with it without looking seerish to the remaining wolves.

My first reaction to Nogs after Lhuna's lynch:

Quarantine Thread stole my thunder.

Didn't realize it was actually evil Boro...

And Inzil, I never did dream you because you seemed like a viable lynch candidate and also I realized if I was wrong about you, doing a Legate180 would appear incredibly seerish. I did briefly doubt my suspicions for a little while because I wasn't sure two wolves would entangle themselves in the ranger debacle, but I just had to know your role and it had to be via lynch. (Again, sorry!)
See Night 3

After everything that happened, I find Inzil to be the most suspicious - so much so that I actually do not want to dream him because I think he may be a viable lynch candidate toMorrow, guilty or not. And even if he is innocent, I have concerns that an attempt for me to defend him may give seerish vibes. If he does survive the Day (and I'm still alive), I may revisit him.

and Night 5

I've now come to realize that I can't dream Inzil because in the scenario that I'm wrong about him and he's innocent, doing a 180 on him toMorrow could be a red flag to the wolves. It's driving me crazy - I just want to know what he is!

Night 4:

I had five players on my short list that Night. I considered Lottie, but thought if she were innocent, her reaction to Sally's hunt might hint seerness and get her killed. In the end I chose Shasta because

If he's a wolf, he's slipping under the radar. If he's innocent, his psychic powers weren't really working yesterDay, but maybe they'll pick up again later - and I find it less likely that he will be killed toNight.

Shasta, I have to echo Lommy from earlier in the game and wonder whatever happened to those psychic powers?

Night 5:

I was rereading yesterDay's events last night...and at some point fell asleep. Anyway, I'm just going to go with my gut because I think knowing his role will be most useful:

++Eonwe

And considering he became quite suspected later on, knowing his role was indeed helpful.

Night 6:

Now that I know Inzil is innocent, I'm come to realize I honestly have no clue who the final three wolves are! There are certain pairs I find unlikely, but even after going through past posts, I don't feel confident about anyone anymore.

I really was thrown - you guys really did a good job hiding from me too. If it weren't for process of elimination, I don't think I would've figured you out. Thus, my choice of Greenie was another shot in the dark.

Once I knew she was innocent, I starting grouping unknowns to figure out possible wolf pairings. In my handwritten notes, at one point, I did note Ka/Kath/Boro as the most likely trio. I was almost certain about the first two and less so about Boro.

As for the whole Boro-ploy. I did leave him alone that Night thinking he might be an ordo baiting the wolves. When he didn't die, I thought it might be because he was wrong about Eonwe and the wolves didn't fall for it. I tried to stay away from the discussion that Day in case it was a ploy to draw out the seer, but in all honesty, I thought him more likely to be innocent by the end of the Day for the same reasons Lommy gave.

Day 6 was tough for me because I had a RL Board meeting to attend during the last two hours and while I was able to monitor the thread, I could not actively write anything. If one of my unknowns had gone to QT overNight, I would have immediately revealed. But Pitch was chosen instead which had me weighing my options. I did the math and realized I probably could reveal and result in a win, however I felt less comfortable doing so without a confirmed wolf and should there be a counter reveal or the village not believe me, RL wouldn't allow me to defend myself. And anyway I thought there was enough seer talk for one Day. I decided I'd only reveal if a known innocent (i.e. Eonwe) was looking to be the primary lynch candidate. I even pre-wrote my reveal post (which was similar to the actual one I used) - that way I could just hit submit during my meeting if necessary. (I did the same with my vote.) The QT vote caused me to panic for a quick second and I thought really was going to have to reveal to save myself. Thankfully the village ignored their vote and smartly went with Ka.

Night 7:

That Night I thought there was a chance that my defense of Eonwe exposed me and I really thought I might get killed. If not me, I suspected it would be Greenie, but thankfully the wolves fell for Shasta's seer hints. I chose Kath because

If she's not evil, so help me..

And I really needed a known wolf.

I really was torn between Rune and Boro the last Day. Rune kept looking more like a frustrated innocent and Boro's last posts were rather fishy (especially when he tried to advise me on how to lead QT vote the next Day). Boro you were truly brilliant - I semi-suspected you for the first half of the game, but after you bused both Lhuna and Ka along with you claiming to be ordo pretending to be the seer, I was fairly convinced you were innocent. Right up until the end.

All of you baddies did a great job, really. If it weren't for my seer abilities, I really don't think I would've had you figured out and if you had found me, I think you most likely would've won the game because you definitely kept the village guessing.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Brinn, was your "bearing gifts" remark deliberate? Why did you choose your dreams? Deeetails!

When I first wrote out that sentence, I didn't intend it to be a hint, but when I previewed my post I read it back and realized it could work as one and decided, sure why not? Felt low risk but fun enough to keep in.

Hopefully my previous post gives you all the details you need.

I should note that in general I'm not very good at leaving clues, but they were there, and I was consistent about all my dreams. For one, the only players I ever described as genuine were the ones I dreamt as innocent.

Day 1

So far I find Lommy to be the most genuine. She's only posted a few times early on, however, I do find her to be sensible and am agreeing with what she has to say.

Day 2

After re-reviewing his posts, I do find Pitchwife to be more genuine and if I were to guess, I'd think him innocent.

Day 3

Okay, I had some concerns about Lhuna's posts from yesterDay, and after really reviewing them, I do find her suspicious. For her involvement in the ranger discussion, the way she encouraged suspicion against me in a subtle way, her vote yesterDay, and her bringing up Hui's slip.

Day 4

Shasta: I've liked his thinking so far and he's feeling genuine to me.

Day 5

In light of learning Lhuna's role, I do actually find Eonwe to be more likely genuine. I looked back at the earlier part of yesterDay and he was gaining a fair amount a suspicion along with Lommy, Boro, and Inzil. Knowing there could be a chance he could be lynched, I don't think Lhuna would've voted him if he were a packmate.

Day 6

And I like Greenie's "unpicking Boro" post. Her analysis seems genuine and find myself agreeing with her conclusions, particularly with the possibility that both Boro and Eonwe are innocent.

(Or course me grouping Boro as also innocent could throw things off here. )

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Generally, I'm quite comforted by the fact that the dead were just as confused as the living. I was somewhat terrified you guys had figured everything out and were yelling us how can we be so stupid.

Meanwhile I spent two days in the middle there having visions of Seer-Boro showing up in the QT and spanking us for getting him killed/messing up his plan.

[Lhunardawen]

Just brilliant Seering, Brinn. How you refused to be drawn out despite Boro's best mind-bending efforts, how you managed to stay under the radar yet suspected just enough for us to leave you alive thinking you're always a probable lynch candidate, how you made excellent dream picks (I had been hoping most of your dreams end up quarantined early and was surprised to find only two of the innocents were! also the fact that I would be chosen as a dream was unthinkable to me)...

Not only did our (Hui, Cobb55, and me) insistence to vote for you everyDay in the QT give you the best possible "cover" if you were really our packmate, it probably also kept us from seriously considering the likelihood that you were the Seer. At least it did for me.

I did have the feeling the Seer was likely refraining from dropping obvious hints to stay alive as long as possible, so for a while I felt it might be Greenie, whose overwhelming walls-of-text posts containing very impressive analyses screamed ordo to me.

[Rikae]

Brinn - wow, here we all were in four different threads (thank you Hui, it's so fun to be a fly on the wall!) knocking ourselves out trying to find/protect/kill the seer (and considering everyone in the game at some point), and behind the scenes you were making these amazing well-thought out dream choices that really were what made the victory possible in the end. My great fear was that when the seer finally came out most of their dreams would be dead, and I initially doubted your reveal because they weren't! I think most seers would have fallen into the trap* of dreaming some of the more controversial people.

Originally Posted by Brinn

When I first wrote out that sentence, I didn't intend it to be a hint, but when I previewed my post I read it back and realized it could work as one and decided, sure why not? Felt low risk but fun enough to keep in.

Hopefully my previous post gives you all the details you need.

I should note that in general I'm not very good at leaving clues, but they were there, and I was consistent about all my dreams. For one, the only players I ever described as genuine were the ones I dreamt as innocent.

Thanks! I have an ongoing debate with myself about whether successful seers would hint at all in a dead thread game, and I'm selfishly pleased to have one data point saying they do. I love looking for hints, and leaving them.

*why do I keep using that phrase? It got me killed!

[Rikae]

Lhuna, I'm reading the night-chat now, and I see I gave Boro credit for your idea! Hats off to both of you - you for crafting an expert seer trap (even if in this situation it caught ordos), and to Boro for acting as bait so well, in the end I think I trusted him because I wanted him to be innocent.

(Me on the dead thread: "he's right about everyone and still alive, how is that possible?" but still trusting him - you must have had a good laugh!)

Edit: Maybe some day I'll learn to gather my thoughts into a single post instead of triple-posting ...

[Brinniel]

(Note: Someday I would love to be an ordo or a cobbler and be on this thread. Feels like a nice consolidation prize for dying.)

Originally Posted by Sally

I actually said I was hunting Lottie, or rather hinted at it, in a post I'll find and quote later. I like making people guess, but not like that. I was trying not to be That Lazy Girl who had people over to help me and then did nothing, but I finally sat down right before DL and told them I needed to do A Thing or it would be Very Bad. Sadly, I was too late.

Sorry, Sally! It sucks when RL interferes. I admit I was initially mad you took out Mac, but now I am eternally grateful you didn't hunt Lottie.

Originally Posted by Mac

Me, too, that's why I'm so excited!

Aww, poor Mac. *pats head*

Originally Posted by Mac

I reeeally hope Boro will dream of Greenie tonight. I will eat my mousepad if she's not evil.

How's that mousepad tasting?

Originally Posted by Legate

The original setting was my very first game, modded by Mac, but it was unusually the other way around: the "Wolves" were the good guys. It was "The Isle of the Were-Faithful". The former queen Tar-Míriel was the Cobbler.

That was my first game too! I recall getting lynched as an ordo on Day 3 thanks to Rune bandwagoning against me and was one a plane that Day so I couldn't defend myself. In RL, I ended getting stuck in an airport overnight and allowed myself to pout about WW for a couple hours, but I got over it.

Originally Posted by Sally

Oh yes, I remember Roa quite fondly as well! With all the people coming out of the woodwork for this game, I almost expected to see her, but alas, perhaps another time.

That would've been lovely, but I think she's been quite busy minding her little ones.

Originally Posted by Legate

Just a moment. I know where each of these comes from, but isn't that a bit too much? What are we now, officially the drinking thread? Where did we earn that reputation?

EDIT: x-ed with Lalaith. LALAITH! What are we, a bar?!?

Oh boy, I really did miss out!

Originally Posted by Legate

Well. My personal question being something like...

WHERE IN THE NAME OF BEÖR THE OLD IS THE SEER?!?

Well, I wasn't trying to keep you guys guessing, but this did make me laugh.

Originally Posted by Lhuna

WHAT

IN

FREAKING

ARDA AND THE VOID

WHERE IN THE NAME OF ALL THE VALAR IS THIS SEER?????!!!!!???!?!!

I really didn't think I was hiding that well!

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Has anyone seen The Good Place?
I feel like I've been told like everything is nice and these are the innocents but I'm still feeling tortured.

Loved the references here.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Then Fea decided to just let the people continue playing, with no wolves and not telling us there were no wolves, while she randomized the Night-kills herself (if I remember it correctly).

It was absolutely insane as there was absolutely no sense in anything that happened and we knew nothing about what had happened in the first place

That was before my WW days, but it sounds insane. But a better resolution than that time where the mod (Gil I think) switched my role from cobbler to wolf because the last wolf had to be mod-fired. Of course I got lynched shortly after because I was being a good cobbler. I think that was the only time I was ever cobbler.

Originally Posted by Legate

Btw I wonder why did Brinn not dream of Boro (if she's telling the truth). Maybe because he was under so much scrutiny that he was likely to be either lynched or Night-killed, so it was likely to be a dream wasted?

The Day Inzil got lynched, I thought he was possibly baiting himself for the wolves and in that scenario, I wanted to leave him alone. The next Night I thought Kath most likely a wolf and wanted a confirmed wolf to reveal.

Also, the QT is probably the first place where I've won a voting popularity contest multiple times.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

(Note: Someday I would love to be an ordo or a cobbler and be on this thread. Feels like a nice consolidation prize for dying.)

Hui summed it up best, in my opinion:

Originally Posted by Huinesoron, on the CutieWolves' Perpetual Chat

We like to think we have more fun over here, but that may be because we're both drunk on the lack of tension.

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Lhuna, I'm reading the night-chat now, and I see I gave Boro credit for your idea! Hats off to both of you - you for crafting an expert seer trap (even if in this situation it caught ordos), and to Boro for acting as bait so well, in the end I think I trusted him because I wanted him to be innocent.

My seed of an idea was nothing as elegant as how Boro executed it, though. But I'm glad he went through with it, and did it better than I ever imagined. The Perpetual Chat will reveal how nervous I was about his survival! Much thanks to Nilp, too, for being my sounding board.

Edit: Maybe some day I'll learn to gather my thoughts into a single post instead of triple-posting ...

Meh. Anything to keep people from wall-of-text posting.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by CutieWolves' Perpetual Chat

Since I'm sure you're wondering, and these arrows through my legs take a certain amount of pressure off, you survived Night 2 because various wolves were pretty sure you were trying to cover for the real Ranger. Good thing (for the wolves) Zil brought you out into the open yesterday...


hS

Oh, I noticed that, thought it could be a newly dead wolf slip but there was a remote possibility it could be a fake slip planned with Lhuna, and decided it was best to disregard it.

[Galadriel55]

You guys are all amazing. Hui - those links will absolutely be read (tomorrow, as it's nearly midnight). I am so curious what you thought of everything on the QT behind the scenes.

I think what really killed me on D1 was that I had to sleep. I made an agenda for myself (and even wrote it down as a reminder!), and while I stuck to it everything went swimmingly. Then I went to bed, and woke up to such horrendous amount of content that I got bogged down in trying to process it in favour of following the agenda. Note for the future, regardless of role: stick to your agenda, it's ok to fall behind on content. Or don't sleep. Still, the most gratifying were probably Hui's comments of how I spent so much time steering the thread into a sideways discussion. I did punch the air the first time it came up.

As for the Seer!Boro idea - Mac championed it on the QT, but his Up To Somethingness was screaming in my face. I guess I did have a conversation witb him on D1 that went kinda like "Where is the cobbler?" - "It's me. Who are you?" - "I am a wolf, but hush, stay in character and act innocent." - "Roger, Wolf Tower*". Which no one picked up on, probably because analyzing cobbler posts is useless. And then he started the next 2 Days with a blatant "I am focusing on THIS, because reasons and hint hint trust me", which gave me massive Up To Something vibes even besides the D1 exchange. I suppose this looks very Seerish, but I didn't really buy it because if Boro was innocent he wouldn't have lived as long as he did. Also, I indirectly confirmed with Hui when he joined me on the QT by asking if they got my gifted flag, which they did not (ie he was not a gifted, and I don't believe a wolf would just ignore InnoBoro's early posts).

For those who want a brief skim of the QT, I made a list of my favourite moments last Night. It's on my computer though, and will be posted here tomorrow. Phones are just not conducive to werewolfing.


* My answer was a response halfway between Roger and Flare: Gifted, because I thought Boro could potentially be the Hunter as well, and just barely potentially the Child. I didn't want to make too much of a flare in case he was a wolf, or be too subtle in my Roger in case he was gifted. Then I tried to distance myself from the whole thing amd sweep it under the rug, my main thought being that some clever innocent (especially the resident psychic ) will see through the message and find Borowolf through me. Oh what a duo we could have been! I am curious - did you try to signal me on D2 about who to vote on D2? Because if there was a specific signal, I must have missed it. I was following your opening with "assume Brin is guilty".



Edit: xed with a couple. Being drunk on the lack of tension was EXACTLY how I felt!

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

For those who want a brief skim of the QT, I made a list of my favourite moments last Night. It's on my computer though, and will be posted here tomorrow.

Yessss, we have an Agan summary post! I had been hoping someone far less lazy than me would do so.

FWIW, G55, I sensed in the Infirmary Bar that you knew Boro was Up To Something. It was all the more reason for me to lament that you couldn't chat with us. Imagine if you could!

[Eönwë]

Wow! That really felt like the kind of game we were having 10 years ago.

I really thought Lottie was the seer for such a long time!

Kind of crazy that I was unintentionally framed (I don't remember when it was, but I remember Lommy's post along the lines of 'how could it be coincidence that the last 3 deaths are people that suspected Eonwe?')

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

I honestly felt pretty much the same for the last few Days - that's part of the reason I thought I might as well try to go out with a bang and take out the Borowolf that no-one else was seeing!

[Eönwë]

Also, I think the QT in this game has more posts than most main game threads!

[Eönwë]

Also, it looks like Lottie ended up playing the Innocent Child in the best possible way, story/drama-wise - revealed and self-sacrificed to ensure a village victory.

[Eönwë]

And I can't tell you how horrified I was when I wrote that sentence that looked like a slip (that I only saw after clicking submit).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

And Inzil, I never did dream you because you seemed like a viable lynch candidate and also I realized if I was wrong about you, doing a Legate180 would appear incredibly seerish. I did briefly doubt my suspicions for a little while because I wasn't sure two wolves would entangle themselves in the ranger debacle, but I just had to know your role and it had to be via lynch. (Again, sorry!)

That makes sense. Regardless of alignment, making it past Day 2 is often an accomplishment for me.
I find it perplexing that when a wolf, I get suspicion for seeming too careful. When innocent, it's because I say too much.

[Kath]

I'm so sad I didn't get a chance to play in the QT! But I love the self sacrifice motif at the end.

Brinn. You were seriously the village person of the game. My head and my analysis said she's got to be a contender for Seer, but it was always logic based not gut level because you were hiding so well so I never pushed for it. Huge kudos to you!

Lommy and Eonwe, you were sort of the wolves' people of the game. Eonwe you were so helpfully constantly suspicious and Lommy ... I mean ... leading a charge that ended up taking out the Hunter and then being so utterly convinced about Boro. You couldn't have been more helpful if you HAD been the Cobbler!

To my fellow wolves, thank you for such a fun game! Lhuna you nearly gave me a heart attack with that self vote Day 1; Ka I can't believe how incredibly you played especially with all the RL stuff going on; Hui my friend if we're ever wolves again I'm letting you go down in flames because that was hilarious and left no traces and I don't know how you did that; Boro I laughed every single time I read the game thread and watched you drop Seer hints left, right and centre and everyone else mildly panic about interacting with you as a result.

I think Ka said it at one point, using this place as a safe haven in a storm, and honestly I have had so much fun, and the majority of that has been all of you. It's been far too long.

[Boromir88]

That QT was a delight to read.

I tend to lament never being able to enjoy participating in the games with dead threads, as the couple times a game has had them, I've either survived to end or killed on the final end game. However, for this game a larger part of me is happy I didn't die early on. I had way too much fun being an unknown for almost the entire game. If I was a known and lynched wolf, I would have joined in the shenanigans, but I don't think I could have had as much fun as I ended up having. Reading the QT afterwards added more to a great experience. And reading my dead comrades night plans to go along with the BoroSeer of the QT and still plotting on a way to try to help me as the last wolf standing was super. Thank you!

I did laugh out loud (for real) when reading Legate in the QT:

Also: looked through Boro's posts for some obvious stuff and also his early posts for some announcement of strategy and found zip, nil, nada.

Heh, sorry, just the thought of your fruitless endeavor to try to find out my strategy for the QT was terribly funny. I guess you could say my strategy was to cause confusion and spin the quarantined around in circles. Which, well when you were in the GT you spotted that was exactly my strategy and suspected me for it. What happens to an infected brain that starts saying "trust Boro"?

All the behind the scenes goings on, makes me realized what a fantastic and balanced game this was. A couple turning points that would have changed our fortunes...

Big one right at the start is Brinn was tied and so close to be lynched. When I came out Day 2 with an "assumption" that Brinn was a wolf, she had played off the Day 1 suspicions and mine so calmly I never suspected her as the seer for the entire game. Maybe if I had stuck with the "Brinn's a wolf" assumption, I surely would have been lynched, but perhaps exposed Brinn early on.

My absolute favorite day was the day Inzil was lynched (sorry bud ). The pack was anticipating THE Ka to be lynched, so I was in full throttle seer-hinting mode, THE Ka was holding up a "just lynch me sign", Pitch was scrambling around and looking like he was frustrated that he couldn't steer the village in the direction he wanted (which we interpreted as a seer who had only dreamed innocents), then we all returned to our night chat wondering how the heck Inzil got lynched that day. Heh

But that day led to the next turning point, the day THE Ka was lynched and after that day I felt my cruddiest. Just read my post:

As much of a headache I probably caused everyone, at least for myself, I'm pretty comfortable with these...

I considered making it interesting...because I trust Lommy and Kath more, but I don't trust Eonwe. Them and myselves I believe who we have left to vote?

I considered Brinn, because I don't know what the QT is trying to do, but I don't trust THE Ka, and she added on to vote Brinn.

I think the time for plans and tricks is over. A missed wolf today and we're in big trouble. So...

++THE Ka

Left to vote was Kath, Lommy, Eonwe and me. I knew Eonwe wouldn't vote for himself so there wasn't going to be a chance he would be lynched. But with Kath and myself around, I was torn on do I do a 180 and vote Brinn (the QT and Ka voted for her). If I voted Brinn there though, it would certainly expose me, and probably Kath too (I don't know if she would have voted for Ka or not), but probably would have been the best play for me knowing now that Brinn was the seer and would dream of Kath the following night.

[Kath]

Boro, reading that also made me remember that on the Day where Inzil was lynched I had been so taken by surprise by the QT vote for Rune that I genuinely thought Rune was dead and Inzil was alive. I spent half the Night analysing Inzil's posts for possible Seerishness and totally ignored poor Rune!

[Lhunardawen]

For the record, village, I was bussed. I was totally, stab-in-the-backingly bussed. While I very much welcomed it, I did not expect to wake up and find myself in the QT, much less have two of my packmates vote for me!

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Kath

I think Ka said it at one point, using this place as a safe haven in a storm, and honestly I have had so much fun, and the majority of that has been all of you. It's been far too long.

Wholeheartedly seconded. It's been such a treat being back here with all of you, thanks everyone (and of course Nog!) for making it into such a crazy, epic comeback game. <3 I'm sure I'll read the QT next time I need cheering up. (This game was also a good reminder to myself that colour-coded spreadsheets aside, I do better at wolf-spotting when I don't try to rely too much on logic. It really just doesn't work.)

As a bizarre coincidence, during the game I was reading a book on asylum determination processes for work, and it basically reads like a werewolf manual -

4.3 Provision of reasonable opportunity for an applicant to clarify potentially adverse credibility findings
It is very possible that a perceived lack of detail, omission, inconsistency, or implausibility in the information provided by the applicant is not in fact real, but may be legitimately explained. As the credibility assessment should be based, as far as possible, on reliable evidence, it is of crucial importance that the determining authority affords applicants a reasonable opportunity to clarify issues which may potentially lead to adverse credibility findings. Moreover, any explanations offered by the applicant should be duly considered before a final decision is taken on the application.

I wish I had followed this advice more.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Lhunardawen

Yessss, we have an Agan summary post! I had been hoping someone far less lazy than me would do so.

Sadly not as well organized and linked as Agan's. I should do that next time though.

Originally Posted by Lhuna

FWIW, G55, I sensed in the Infirmary Bar that you knew Boro was Up To Something. It was all the more reason for me to lament that you couldn't chat with us. Imagine if you could!

I am glad to hear it! I was afraid that when you said that it was because you needed me to do something and I wasn't getting it, or was doing the exact opposite of what you wanted.

[Galadriel55]

Day 2

Rikae and I start off by agreeing to spam the thread to make the Living wonder what we were up to.

Rikae votes for Brin, and I abstained.

Rikae becomes the First Ever Good Cobbler.


Day 3

Huey reveals his packmates to be Nogrod, Nerwen, Balfrog and The Barrow-Wight.

I suggest we vote Brin again for jokes, and The Boss agrees. I wonder / hope that the InnoCuties will keep voting Brin to make the GT lose it.

Meanwhile, Rikae votes for Bernie.

Going into Night 4, Rikae asks if every gifted is secretly a cobbler. I wholeheartedly approve of the idea.

Mac does a



"saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", while Rikae finds consolation in that it could have been the Seer.

Meanwhile, it turns out just about everyone left early Hunter hints that absolutely no one picked up on.

Mac convinces everyone that Boro is the Seer.

sally wants to fry some cookies.


Day 4

Mac channels Nilp's alter-egos.

Roa Aoife makes an appearance.

The whole QT thread asks Nog to prank the GT with a fake ++Brin. This is my proudest moment in the game, when the whole thread and the Mod, for one shining moment, became cobblers. On this note, thanks to Mac, we now know that after "thirded" comes "fourtified". A new addition to my growing vocabulary, along with Pitchie's "frell".

Going into Night 5:
Lhuna explains the exact mechanism by which our QT became a Prolonged QT. And I love her for it.

Legate becomes an Honorary Infected. Almost.


Day 5

Kit remains the only unsurprised person to be in the QT, which is filled with Not The Seers.

Mac wants to mess with Boro by voting for him.

Legate does indeed vote for Karl Marx. For which he was meta-caught on the GT.

We do not have beer to offer Inzil, but we do have Gin and Tonic.

As Night 6 begins, Lhuna consoles Zil by saying she didn't think he was bad. But Hui did!

Everybody wants to vote Steve. It seems like Steve and Boro will never die.


Day 6

Pitch joins us as the 4th Not The Seer, after Rikae, Legate, and Lalaith.

Among the scrutinized Living, Rune, Shasta, and Lottie join Boro in the Possible Seers List. People are wondering where the frell is the real Seer. Apparently Mac and sally are now Seers too. I suggest Brin, but of course no one thinks I'm serious.

Inzil admits that when he was still "alive", he earnestly believed we were busy here in QT discussing the GT!

Lhuna does an analysis of her own death.

I propose a game. People get to decide my vote in exchange for answering a question.

This is the Day when QT voting was more intense than GT voting. The InnoCuties want to vote unanimously for Brin, and sally gets infected by the cobbler pseudobug. Sadly the vote is not quite unanimous, but almost. Still, Nog's and GT's reaction were worth it. The QT believes that now that we've (almost unanimously) voted Brin, she'll turn out to be the Seer or the Child (Ha!).

OverNight, we find out there is a separate room in Hell.



Day 7

Shasta becomes yet another Not The Seer. People are genuinely questioning whether there actually is a real Seer in this game, and Nog actually has to confirm this, and yet is still not quite believed.

We discuss ridiculous game ideas with weird twists. We reminisce of games long past.

The GT decibels are finally down to a decent level. Because population control works. ^.^ Nog practically dares us to pass the GT in post count.

Lhuna does an analysis of Ka's death on her behalf.

The Princess Bride keeps coming up time and again. It is indeed a great description for the whole game (and for a lot of my personal experience too) – and almost inadequate compared to the actual amount of scheming and double bluffing and various possibilities that went on. Because it’s not just both goblets poisoned, it’s the poison poisoned and the poison antidoted and while you decide which antidote matches which poison an elephant falls on you. (Specifically it was inadequate for Rikae trying to figure out what I thought of Brin. I didn't know anything about Brin, that was irrelevant; my decisions were based on what would maximize chaos).



And that was all I got before Brin revealed and everything spiraled towards the grand finale. I want to congratulate Boro and Brin again for a brilliantly played game! A special mention to Kath, who would have totally made it to endgame if she just wasn't dreamed. Very very sneaky wolf! And cannot say this enough: Nog, that was some brilliant Modding! The narrations were gripping, the comments and reactions were fun, and the game set-up was excellent!

[Blind Guardian]

Maybe this isn't the place to put this, but I would like to play in the next game and I don't remember how to sign up or when that will happen. Please push me in the right direction!

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Blind Guardian

Maybe this isn't the place to put this, but I would like to play in the next game and I don't remember how to sign up or when that will happen. Please push me in the right direction!

Hey there, BG. This is the main TIG thread. Sorry you missed this last game.
There was a long hiatus before it, but hopefully that won't be the case now.

[Nogrod]

Sorry for not being around that much after the game ended. RL just took quite a tight grip of me as I realized how much stuff I had left undone because of the game.

But yes, it was quite a game!

And everyone was in it from the beginning to the end, which made the feeling quite unique. Couldn't rep you all at one sitting, as you well know, but will continue tomorrow... You all deserve it!

~*~

Let me just give you one more POV to look at the game. The POV of one who actually knew all the time what was going on.

It was, well...


Like the fist lynches going into the last second - and with "high risk high reward" results hanging in balance for both sides to the very last!

Or the few slips I of course noticed and then followed how you guys related to them...

And the QT was just so much fun.


But the best one must have been when Sally was "lynched" and she was going to take Lottie with her!

Think of it from the narrational POV! Little Túrin taking even younger Lalaith with him into the Great Hall in front of his shocked and petrified parents and the bewildered villagers!

I had written the "DEADLINE STOP POSTING" -message already and was ready to post it, keeping eye on the clock, and checked one more time when it turned into 0:00 to see if Sally had changed her pick at the last minute. There were no new PM's for me, so I thought she wasn't going to change it. Actually - following just an impulse - I added to that Deadline post a new line reading just *Good Grief!*.

When I had posted it, I realized there was a new PM for me! I went to see it, and it was from Sally, and she told me to change the hunt for Macalaure! The time stamp was indeed 0:00 - so it was a valid change, albeit it came literally at the last possible seconds.

I quickly edited my "Good Grief" out from the Thread as not to reveal anything, but was feeling strongly that I had screwed up. Happily it turned out not to be so in the end - or at least I hope so.

[Lhunardawen]

You had hands down the best seat in the house, Nog. I can only imagine how hilarious it must have been for you to see us obsessively vote for the Seer in the QT.

Think of it from the narrational POV! Little Túrin taking even younger Lalaith with him into the Great Hall in front of his shocked and petrified parents and the bewildered villagers!

Now I wish it had actually happened.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

And I can't tell you how horrified I was when I wrote that sentence that looked like a slip (that I only saw after clicking submit).

It happens to the best of us... including myself.

Remember this?

Originally Posted by Lhuna

You would know, wouldn't you. Wicked. Tricksy. False.

Everyone was really baffled by this and thought Lhuna is suspicious and not making any sense. While I did get it afterwards and ignored it. Because it did look like I slipped I knew Brinn was innocent! Even though I believe the context was something like "maybe the wolves badnwagoned to lynch innocent Brinn - or maybe 'innocent' Gal", so this "slip" wasn't really that bad.

~*~

Anyway I very much hope a second game happens still in the summer - but whether it happens or not, what say you about reviving the annual tradition of summer werewolf? I see the last games we had were about one per year sometime between May and September. Let's keep this happening, shall we?

[Kath]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Anyway I very much hope a second game happens still in the summer - but whether it happens or not, what say you about reviving the annual tradition of summer werewolf? I see the last games we had were about one per year sometime between May and September. Let's keep this happening, shall we?

I think an annual revival sounds like an excellent plan!

[Blind Guardian]

A whole year... you're making me wait a whole year