Game Thread: TIG XCII - Disaster by the Lake

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Gal

But the next question then is, why did the wolves not choose someone who would point more in the wrong direction (leave a false trace)?

Am I being a tree stump and missing something obvious?

I dunno - false traces are still traces, aren't they? And since everyone knows whatever trace the wolves leave may as well be false as not, every false trace will be taken with quite a large pinch of salt. Still, since pretty much any kill can be traced to pretty much anyone, I don't think speculating too much on why they chose Kath is going to do us a whole lot of good. At least, not until we have a little more information on other things.

[A Little Green]

Also - where is everyone? Quadruple-posting is kind of depressing, especially since I want to go to sleep quite soon and would like some discussion before that..

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Also - where is everyone?

Finally here and reading... if you have anything in mind, let me know. Otherwise I'll try to comment as I go...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

To clear that up, I don't think innocents should speculate about a certain player's giftedness or non-giftedness while that player is alive - which is what Nog did, wondering about G55's alleged slip with Nights and Days; and giving reasons why a player is likely not gifted is almost as bad as pointing out signs of giftedness, because it helps the wolves narrow down their kill-choices, which is not an innocent's job. I don't see why that is so difficult to comprehend.

As a rule, I don't think so either - but rules can be broken if necessary. Nog knows this full well. Anyway I checked the context where he said that: it was his first post, around 7PM our time, in reply to my absolutely non-serious questioning of Gal for saying she can be around more at Nights. Nog took it onto another level entirely. I was earlier ready to put it down on, I don't know, it being day 1 and stuff, but now I'm not so sure.

Btw Agan, I don't think your explanation that Nog did this "to protect an assumed gifted" holds. The best way for an ordo to protect the gifteds would be to act as a decoy, or if you can't think of a way to do that, the second-best way would be to keep mum about whatever makes you think a certain player might be gifted (or not), or explain it away as best you can without bringing the question of giftedness up at all.

It's not like it couldn't be so, but I never thought that was what Nog had intended. I was going for some damage control in the sense that there would be at least one argument, albeit feeble, between Gal and giftedness. You know, just to muddle the waters because that's what I so like to do.

That the rest of us spend our days twiddling our thumbs? Spare the rolleyes and come off the high horse, please.

One more reason why Pitch is the best. I love it when people talk back to Nog.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Now who's reading too much? Please show me a major point that early into Day 1. As it was, that was the only on-topic thing that seemed even remotely worth commenting.

I wouldn't have thought of it if I hadn't had other reasons for finding you suspicious. It could also have been phrased like "If Greenie turns out to be a wolf, I'd take a hard look at Bom, and the other way round."

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

I wouldn't have thought of it if I hadn't had other reasons for finding you suspicious. It could also have been phrased like "If Greenie turns out to be a wolf, I'd take a hard look at Bom, and the other way round."

Fair enough.

[Aganzir]

Oh and just something minor to cheer you all up: 11 villagers; 4 villains, 7 goodies; 3 wolves, 8 humans. If we don't get a wolf either today or tomorrow, we probably lose.

INNOCENT
Kit. I like her arguments and she's reasonable enough. I still dread her though.
Pitch. I simply don't think he'd play the way he did if he was a wolf or the cobbler. Never mind that "there was probably a wolf involved among the first players", it's a single minor point against him when he's otherwise making sense.

GUILTY
Green. I think her attack on Nog was opportunistic because she knows what kind of player he is. And there's something very wrong with her not suspecting me because usually I annoy her and that makes her suspicious.
Nog. He doesn't strike me as a wolf but I don't think cobbler would be that far-fetched... Which means he's probably the seer. Whoops I forgot we're not supposed to speculate on gifteds! (And before anyone gets carried away, that's a reference to a particular catastrophic game.)
Shasta. Doesn't sit right with me at all. I can't explain it other than that his way of playing reminds me vividly of Shastawolf.
Bom. Has posted little that isn't crazy, therefore he's here for now.
Lottie. Because behaving unusually = evil, when it isn't that simple.
Gal. I kind of like her because she seems nice and tra-la-lally enough, but I don't trust her.
sally. Evil unless proven otherwise, and she isn't proving very apt at proving that because she doesn't post.
Nerwen. Sneaky.

Unless something drastic happens before I go to bed, I intend to vote for one of the three first Guilties.

[Nogrod]

Okay. Galadriel says I'm "plain illogical" and Agan says I'm "surprisingly illogical". Now that actually makes me interested, not that I'm too happy to discuss me as we have other things to do and talking about someone also heightens the chance of that person being lynched, but just out of curiosity: could you please show me some illogicality as I do doubt having been illogical. Actually I would be quite confused and ashamed if I had been illogical.

Okay. I hate doing this but as you seem to be so willing to speak about it in every other post Pitchie, then let me rephrase what I said yesterDay.

But I must say I don't understand why - if you really think yourself like you say you think - so why do you bring this up time and time after time? Even trying to exhaust all possible scenarios one might take! (Well, happily you missed mine)

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

To clear that up, I don't think innocents should speculate about a certain player's giftedness or non-giftedness while that player is alive - which is what Nog did, wondering about G55's alleged slip with Nights and Days; and giving reasons why a player is likely not gifted is almost as bad as pointing out signs of giftedness, because it helps the wolves narrow down their kill-choices, which is not an innocent's job. I don't see why that is so difficult to comprehend.

So like I said yesterDay: I wasn't first to speculate on Gal and I hope the wolves have now harder time to guess and second-guess what I know or guess or don't know and what should they think about it.

And that's the end of this conversation on my part.

Originally Posted by Pitchie

Spare the rolleyes and come off the high horse, please.

Haha. I have always been afraid of horses... (note: no rolleyes)

Originally Posted by Pitch

That is not at all what I suspected you for. See above.

All I can deduce from your post as a kind of grounds for suspecting me would make a total moron and half-wit out of me. I do hope you reconsider how big an idiot you think I am.


EDIT: X'd with a lot, so back to reading before this becomes a novel...

[Pitchwife]

I'm flipflopping about Kit at the moment. Her comment on the Bom-Zil-Lottie triangle yesterDay didn't sit right with me, but that may have been me seeing things. Her long posts yesterDay and toDay look fair enough at first sight, balanced and independent (as in agreeing with Greenie's points against Nog but not with Zil piggybacking on them), but things have changed a lot over Night:

YesterDay:

Originally Posted by Kit #85

Inzil's vote for Nog seems like a piggyback on Greenie's suspicious. Aside from Nog, she's made the best case for a lynch candidate and it's not even that strong. (I don't expect any to be that strong toDAy though)[...]
Greenie makes a decent point about Nog

ToDay:
[QUOTE0Kit #106]Greenie puts words into Nog's mouth and Lottie's mouth in one sentence. I'm impressed.
[/QUOTE]
Referring to this:

Originally Posted by Greenie

Lottie never said "never mind that person" but rather "never mind that particular point against that person" - which is something an innocent can afford to say.

I suppose you could call "never mind that particular point..." putting words in Lottie's mouth, but "never mind that person" is a verbatim Nog-quote.

Originally Posted by Kit #106

Ok, Greenie said a lot without saying a lot. She jumps on a comment about Nog from Pitch that was pretty bad for a suspicion, even by Day 1 standards. Then she twists what Lottie says by twisting what Nog said.

So yes, I know, wolves can be consistent while innocents may need to change their minds, but I'd still like to hear how "making a decent point" and "the best case for a lynch candidate" became "said a lot with saying a lot" and twisting words? Especially as Kit seems to me to be largely echoing Nog's self defense.

(x-ed with a load)

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

Green. I think her attack on Nog was opportunistic because she knows what kind of player he is. And there's something very wrong with her not suspecting me because usually I annoy her and that makes her suspicious.

You do annoy me, dear. I'm just trying very hard not to let that affect my opinion of your alignment. Actually, that's part of why I'm so undecided about you at the moment.


EDIT: x-ed with Pitch

[Shastanis Althreduin]

On Aganzir, Day 1

#18 - No real content. Several things in this post could be taken to be hints to people (Bom, G55, me) but I can't say for sure.

#50 - Agrees with Nog that Bom is just adding to the confusion, but she's not willing to vote for him.

This post has the quote that originally drew my attention to Agan. Here it is below -

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Or someone being gifted. I wouldn't say Bom's behaviour has been unusual enough to merit either title, but I do wonder why you didn't think of the other option.

This pounce on Lottie bothers me. For one, why assume Lottie didn't think of the other possibility and choose not to mention it (like an innocent should)? For another, why draw attention to a possible Gifted!Bom yourself in the first place? It doesn't sit right with me.

Mentions Pitch is erroneous in saying "there was a wolf involved in the early talk". I agree here, but not to the extent that it makes Pitch looks suspicious like Agan thinks.

Says she's going to vote for me, Lottie, or Pitch. It's interesting to note that the only thing Agan has said about me thus far is that I "feel sneaky" and she still "feels bad" about me.

#58 - Defends Nog pretty passionately here, against Greenie (and this is in response to Inzil.) Puts more pressure on Pitch (and this looks somewhat like the beginning of a witchhunt.)

#60 - Mentions Greenie and Inzil together again, probably because of their votes for Nog. Mentions Inzil has already been voted for, but that she's "not sure if it was ever going to turn into a bandwagon" which is a comment I don't understand.

#62 - Vote count.

#66 - This is an interesting post. Agan says she's flip-flopping on Lottie, but the content of the post appears to say the opposite - Agan mentions that Greenie singled out one part of a three-part Lottie statement to respond to, which is strange, I'll agree. Lottie's response to that makes sense to me and is normal enough, though. What I find the most interesting is this -

Originally Posted by Aganzir

So how did it become about the cobbler? As I see it, Lottie originally also offered two other options! It looks like they're both reading too much into it: first Greenie grasps at a part of a sentence, then Lottie immediately backs off.
Weirdos.

The way I read into this bit is Agan offering up food for thought to the village in general and stepping back to wait for reactions... which isn't typical of Agan in my experience. Hmm.

#69 - Responds to me about Lottie and Bom. Agan raises a good point here about "unusual" meaning "not ordinary" rather than "wolfish", but I don't think simply pointing out behavior that appears unusual is as big a point against Lottie as Agan is trying to make it out to be.

#70 - Question to Lottie - "And why would a wolf do that?" Unfair question - what a wolf would do depends on any number of factors, like who the wolf is, what the situation is, etc. Again, looks like a prelude to a wolf hunt - Agan looks like she's waiting to pounce on whatever answer Lottie gives, no matter what it is.

#78 - Agan answers what I said with "Yep, I did, so what, oh well." I'm thinking of leaving apple cores in her bed for this.

#79 - Agan dismisses outright Lottie's theory about Bom under her own theory that the risk of being dreamed is too great. Seems a bit silly to me - finding the cobbler is a nice bonus for the Seer, but not the main priority. I think Lottie's theory is valid, personally. And why even bother with that "if I was a Gifted" business?

#88 - Another vote count.

#91 - Another vote count.

#94 - Votes Inzil (a far cry from a) where her suspicions were and b) who she said she'd vote.)

#96 - Tells Nog to go to bed.




Thoughts -

Agan evidences suspicion of me (for being sneaky), but all day her main target was Lottie. The only thing she said about Inzil was in regards to defending Nogrod. Since the only reason I can see Agan voting Inzil is to save Nog, I find it interesting that the very first thing Agan says starting Day 2 is "I am torn about Nog" (which is a far cry from the absolute trust she had in him Day 1) but doesn't go on to explain why, really.

[Nogrod]

If there is nothing else going on, I'm going to take a quick look at yesterDay's voting as I feel myself quite at loss at the moment as to where to turn for this little while I have time to be around.

One clue I know and you may know at some point is that there was a run-off between two innocents yesterDay so the wolves had quite a laid-back Day1. I'll try to see if that shows anywhere there.


Other than that, I still suspect Greenie the most.

Originally Posted by Grendel

He criticized me for sticking to my suspicion of him based on his grasping at straws with Lottie even after he explained it, but the thing is, the explanation didn't convince me so here we are.

That is the easy way out. Give some reasons so I can try to tell you why you're wrong.

Just saying: "blah-blah, say what you want, I just am not convinced" is not the most fruitful approach to a game of Werewolf. Especially if the other person has explained why the reasons the other one claims to suspect him are false.

Also, I find it at least a bit dubious she thinks it is okay to suspect others for "putting words into other peoples' mouths" and then does it herself - using that more or less as a basis for her vote...

EDIT: X'd again with a few

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay. I hate doing this but as you seem to be so willing to speak about it in every other post Pitchie, then let me rephrase what I said yesterDay.
But I must say I don't understand why - if you really think yourself like you say you think - so why do you bring this up time and time after time? Even trying to exhaust all possible scenarios one might take! (Well, happily you missed mine) So like I said yesterDay: I wasn't first to speculate on Gal and I hope the wolves have now harder time to guess and second-guess what I know or guess or don't know and what should they think about it.

Of course I think like I say, and I've brought it up time and again because, like you said yourself, "it's already been voiced over".
But actually, I've got to admit I'd skimmed over/neglected/forgotten Agan's teasing "night-scheming" comment to G55 until she just reminded me of it herself, so I was under the impression you had actually been the first to speculate about it. I now get what you seid to me yesterDay, so please disregard my #87 to you. My bad.

[quote=Nogrod;664653]And that's the end of this conversation on my part.[quote]
And mine.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

That is the easy way out. Give some reasons so I can try to tell you why you're wrong.

Just saying: "blah-blah, say what you want, I just am not convinced" is not the most fruitful approach to a game of Werewolf. Especially if the other person has explained why the reasons the other one claims to suspect him are false.

Also, I find it at least a bit dubious she thinks it is okay to suspect others for "putting words into other peoples' mouths" and then does it herself - using that more or less as a basis for her vote...

Take it down a notch, please. You're implying here that I'm purposefully disregarding another player (you, in this case), which is both unkind and untrue.

There's a difference between blah-blah and not buying an argument. If you really think this is a subject we should waste our energy on, then fine. You wanted to know why I'm not convinced by your further defence of your argument against Lottie, right? The original argument was as follows:

Okay. My initial reason to suspect Lottie more than Zil from their more or less similar actions (turning their wheels on Bom) was that unlike Zil who added the "it might be taken in many ways", Lottie went on saying "never mind, then".

Now it is hard for me to see any innocent saying that because someone acts suspiciously - and that is his habit - then there is no reaason to look after that person, that we should not mind ourselves with that person at all.

An innocent fears everyone as an innocent doesn't know the roles of others. Thus an innocent can't give a free pass to anyone. An innocent can't afford to say "never mind that person".

I won't repeat what I said to this, would be a waste of time. Anyway, the following arguments are below.

And you are not reaching when you say Lottie meant "never mind that particular point against that person".

She said "never mind, then". And to me that reads like "I'll drop the suspicion", not "I'm watching him closely but will dismiss this particualr suspicion".

I already quoted this one toDay, asking for clarification. Basically, there are a few problems with this one. First off, the difference between your two options of how it could be read seem, to me, to be more or less the same thing. Secondly, you seem to have forgotten that it was early on Day 1 and the original suspicion on Bom had not been a strong one. The "watching closely" part would have been quite unnecessary - it kind of goes without saying, at least to most of us, that dismissing a particular argument against somebody (especially early on Day 1) doesn't mean forgetting about them for the rest of the game. The way I read it, Lottie's "never mind" was referring to the particular point against Bom. She has confirmed this herself, which might be genuine or might not be.

Originally Posted by Nog

Also, I think I made it clear why I think Lottie looks suspicious. Greenie seems to have had no time or wish to comment on my explanation on that (#47). And what I said in #55 doesn't make Greenie look any better.

This is not a new argument, so I don't need to say much about it - basically, yes, you made it clear, but I didn't find the reasons very valid.

I just checked it: Greenie never mentions Zil in her late posting, even if he was under some considerable pressure. But she made her "decision" on me on grounds of defending Galadriel (for which there was no reason) and Lottie (to whom I was "reaching" - even if I had explained it in two posts why I said I was suspicious of her).

First of all it looks pretty wolvish to vote by "defending others" (in normal situations on D1 the only ones who can do it are wolves). But secondly it makes both Gal & Lottie look more innocent (neither was in dire straits and defending ordos is the best way for a wolf to gain trust and friendship).

But the fact she didn't mention Zil at all, despite the suspicions, makes me wonder if the two really are in cahoots...

A couple of things. First, that you explained your reasons for your suspicion in two posts doesn't necessarily make those reasons any less far-fetched (and before you get worked up, yes, most reasons given on Day 1 are far-fetched). Second, that I suspect you based on your jumps on other players doesn't necessarily make the suspicion defensive by nature. Third, given that I had nothing to say about Zil, why should I have? Just to boost conversation on a topic I had nothing to contribute in and that was getting a bit too much attention as it was?


EDIT: x-ed with Pitch

[Nogrod]

Okay. Looking at yesterDay's voting then.

Galadriel -> Nerwen
Has been talked a lot and I will not delve into that any more than this. The vote is odd, but possibly understandable; but also a bit suspicious (suspicious in a way of choosing someone who hadn't appeared as yet like to avoid any nasty questions as to why pick X - and needing to show some posts to refer to).

Kath -> Zil
Kath is a deceased ordo.

Zil -> Nogrod
Zil is a deceased ordo.

Greenie -> Nogrod 2
Well, I've argued about the whimsiness of her suspicions already a few times. Now she was in a hurry to go to sleep and that might have been an excuse yesterDay, but as it seems she's still of the same mind I'm bound to think she's up to no good.


The "easy ones" were there. The rest requires some thinking (and re-reading).


EDIT: X'd with Greenie: good to hear from you.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

X'd with Greenie: good to hear from you.

Yeah, good to know the tendency to stay up later than is wise because of werewolf does run in the family!

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shasta

#79 - Agan dismisses outright Lottie's theory about Bom under her own theory that the risk of being dreamed is too great. Seems a bit silly to me - finding the cobbler is a nice bonus for the Seer, but not the main priority.

Can the Seer even see the cobbler? Admin thread just says

The raven then reports back to the Seer on that villager's role.

so that looks like yes, but usually they can't. Boro?
(This is just a minor point, though.)

Originally Posted by Shasta

Mentions Pitch is erroneous in saying "there was a wolf involved in the early talk". I agree here, but not to the extent that it makes Pitch looks suspicious like Agan thinks.
[...]
#58 - Defends Nog pretty passionately here, against Greenie (and this is in response to Inzil.) Puts more pressure on Pitch (and this looks somewhat like the beginning of a witchhunt.)

I appreciate the defense, but this is not how I read her. She was just questioning me on a statement I had made and made me explain it, which I think is normal procedure in WW. I've seen Agan witchhunting, and this isn't what it looks like (as you should actually know, if I'm not mistaken).
But Agan, how did Nog turn from someone you trusted enough to save his life yesterDay to a baddie you could imagine voting for toDay?

[Kitanna]

I've had the Chance to skim but not actually read. I just got some very bad RL news and so I won't be around again (I'm sending this hastily from my iPod).

++ greenie

I stated reasons earlier and since I do not the time to read all that's been said since I was last on please refer to that.

Provided I survive, I'll be back on Day 3.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Kit

I've had the Chance to skim but not actually read. I just got some very bad RL news and so I won't be around again (I'm sending this hastily from my iPod).

Hope everything's all right! *hug*

I'm really liking Shasta, having serious second thoughts about Agan, and (as yet) unchanged with regards to Nog. Speaking of which - please answer sooooon, because I'm yawning my head off and really need some sleep...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Okay. Galadriel says I'm "plain illogical" and Agan says I'm "surprisingly illogical".

I didn't say you were illogical now, and I probably couldn't give you any examples off the top of my head. The illogicality I mean is more of the kind of looking at the world through strongly wolf-coloured glasses with a la-la-la-not-listening attitude which you tend to have at times.

I wasn't first to speculate on Gal and I hope the wolves have now harder time to guess and second-guess what I know or guess or don't know and what should they think about it.

Yes you were. My remark about it was about as relevant as, well, any of the first posts.

Originally Posted by A Little Green

You do annoy me, dear. I'm just trying very hard not to let that affect my opinion of your alignment. Actually, that's part of why I'm so undecided about you at the moment.

I always try that too but it never works, and laugh at me all you like, it worries me that you're not suspecting me. Last time I remember you doing this, you were a wolf and I wasn't.

Ahh now Shasta makes me feel special! Good thing he made the summary, otherwise I wouldn't remember what I thought on day 1.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

For one, why assume Lottie didn't think of the other possibility and choose not to mention it (like an innocent should)? For another, why draw attention to a possible Gifted!Bom yourself in the first place? It doesn't sit right with me.

Because if I think someone is acting unusually (as opposed to suspiciously), I tend to keep it to myself until I've figured out if they're unusual in a good or a bad way. This means I don't accuse them before that - which Lottie basically did.
And Shasta might be a gifted. It's not even that unlikely, there's a 3/11 chance he's one. There. Am I drawing attention to a possible gifted? If I don't have an in-game reason for thinking someone is one, it can hardly be considered "drawing attention".

It's interesting to note that the only thing Agan has said about me thus far is that I "feel sneaky" and she still "feels bad" about me.

Yeah, I think so too. Usually I need a stronger suspicion to consider voting someone.

Mentions Inzil has already been voted for, but that she's "not sure if it was ever going to turn into a bandwagon" which is a comment I don't understand.

I believe it had to do with him being seemingly so concerned about saving his skin. He had been talked about but I wasn't sure if it was enough to earn him lots of votes yet, like he seemed to think.

Again, looks like a prelude to a wolf hunt - Agan looks like she's waiting to pounce on whatever answer Lottie gives, no matter what it is.

It was intended to be a prelude to a wolf hunt. If Shasta is a wolf, I suggest lynching Lottie next.

I'm thinking of leaving apple cores in her bed for this.

You think I'd take you into my bed so soon after Kath's death??

#94 - Votes Inzil (a far cry from a) where her suspicions were and b) who she said she'd vote.)

Actually one of my vote counts has my name missing from the Left to vote list. That's because I had typed plus plus Shasta but then counted the votes again and figured it would be a complete throwaway and besides, it would be very unlike me to wash my hands from the lynch.

Now Lommy and Legate wandered into my room and asked if I'd still like to do something fun with them before going to bed and I said yes, so I'll be back a bit later.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Greenie

First off, the difference between your two options of how it could be read seem, to me, to be more or less the same thing.

And to me they look very different. This may be a question of semantics (or knowledge of language - to my inability then), but to me saying "never mind, then" is dismissing the whole idea, not the specific reason to suspect one.

Secondly, you seem to have forgotten that it was early on Day 1 and the original suspicion on Bom had not been a strong one. The "watching closely" part would have been quite unnecessary - it kind of goes without saying, at least to most of us, that dismissing a particular argument against somebody (especially early on Day 1) doesn't mean forgetting about them for the rest of the game.

I never said anything about the "rest of the game". The way it could be seen is to momentarily hold back off the idea when one sees it's getting controversial and people don't like what you say.

On the other hand I must return the amazement about some people forgetting it was earlyish on D1 when this controversy began. So did you - or anyone else - think I was thinking of having "strong cases" (I'm afraid some did think that way regarding the odd posts about my "not so strong arguments")? It was D1 and all most people did was banter for 2/3's of the Day! What I said about Gal - which you think was reaching and a reason to vote for me - was actually a question as to whether she is a or b... and what I said about Lottie was making an interpretation of her words - of which you made your own...

The way I read it, Lottie's "never mind" was referring to the particular point against Bom. She has confirmed this herself, which might be genuine or might not be.

Of course she confirmed it. Like you said, innocent or not, she had to confirm your interpretation. So I think you can not rely on that as a merit for your interpretation...

before you get worked up, yes, most reasons given on Day 1 are far-fetched

Don't worry. I need not get "worked up" as I totally agree. Although that is not always the case: I have seen good arguments on D1 - and even seen them giving results... but this game sure isn't one of them. Here we agree.

given that I had nothing to say about Zil, why should I have? Just to boost conversation on a topic I had nothing to contribute in and that was getting a bit too much attention as it was?

Well, here reality has already proved me wrong as Zil was innocent. So I'm actually wondering why do you feel the need to explain it... or do you just wish to twist the knife in my belly by reminding me of my bad suspicion?

Yeah, good to know the tendency to stay up later than is wise because of werewolf does run in the family!

PS. I hope I have not been "unkind" as you said back there. That has not been my intention.


EDIT: X'd with a lot it seems...

[Pitchwife]

Dang! I actually considered voting Kit toDay (see #128 above), but under these circumstances that would feel really mean.

Anyway, I'm sorry to hear that, Kit; hope it's not that bad.

[Nogrod]

Btw. Agan is the cobbler.

[Nogrod]

Uh-oh... Kit. Sad to hear that. Be brave.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nog

Btw. Agan is the cobbler.

What?

I mean, she might be for all I know, but do you have reasons or are you completely bonkers now?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Btw. Agan is the cobbler.

I knew it!

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

And to me they look very different. This may be a question of semantics (or knowledge of language - to my inability then), but to me saying "never mind, then" is dismissing the whole idea, not the specific reason to suspect one.

OK, I think we're indeed discussing semantics here, but the thing is - the way I see it, the one specific argument was, at that point, "the whole idea".

What I said about Gal - which you think was reaching and a reason to vote for me - was actually a question as to whether she is a or b... and what I said about Lottie was making an interpretation of her words - of which you made your own...

Concerning Gal - the whole bringing up of that question (whether Gal's offhand statement that her schedule happens to be less busy during Night phases is a sign of wolvery or not) seemed rather pointless to me. It just wasn't, in my opinion, a statement that could in any possible way be a wolf slip; therefore, even voicing it as an option as likely as it being just a comment on her timetable seemed and still seems fishy to me. Concerning Lottie - yes, we both made interpretations of her words, I'm not denying that. But that doesn't mean I can't still find your interpretation rather opportunistic.

Originally Posted by Nog

Well, here reality has already proved me wrong as Zil was innocent. So I'm actually wondering why do you feel the need to explain it... or do you just wish to twist the knife in my belly by reminding me of my bad suspicion?

No! I brought that up for two reasons. First, because when someone asks me a question I expect they want an answer, late or no; second, because I don't think it's a very valid argument against anybody that they don't take part in a certain conversation.

PS. I hope I have not been "unkind" as you said back there. That has not been my intention.

I know it wasn't so I didn't take it badly, but just wanted to let you know that it could be taken that way.


EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Pitch, and Shasta

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

Btw. Agan is the cobbler.

She's certainly taking pains to look like one, but in her case I'm unconvinced of whether she actually is one or not.

[Nogrod]

Sally 2 posts. Promised to be here this evening...

Galadriel and Nerwen 4 posts each. Little said thus far.

Bom 12 posts and promised to do things toDay - not seen him after that.

Bored ordos with bad morals? If they are wolves (some of them that is), then I'd just say they don't merit the spoils and we can say we are moral winners even if we lose.


Kit I think is out of the question at least for now for lynching. I started having some bad vibes from her becasue she sounded so reasonable, especially when she was talking about people who made "attacks" on me.

I mean if one learns something playing a lot of ww-games, it is that the people who are the nicest to you, people who back you in Daylight, most often stab you during the Night.

But like I said I'm not going to vote her toDay anyway.


That leaves us (me) little choice - and still too much, looking at the clock...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

She's certainly taking pains to look like one, but in her case I'm unconvinced of whether she actually is one or not.

Well, it does merit lynching her sooner or later... I was quite annoyed and confused about the way she strongly defended me yesterDay - but at the same time very happy because she was right of course and was in no way going to open this discussion back then.

[Pitchwife]

This row between Agan and Shasta is interesting. Shasta's accusation of Agan pointing out a possibly gifted Bom is twisted (and was so yesterDay), because it rests on the equation "unusual = possibly gifted", and it has I think been agreed that Bom wasn't behaving unusual (by his standards), so the question of his being gifted because of that is moot to begin with.

And I kinda get what Agan says about Shasta reminding her of himself as a wolf. Much as I agree with him on not discussing gifteds, I've seen a Shastawolf using that same argument against innocents - which doesn't say, however, that an innocent Shasta can't do the same. I just can't read him.

Agan, on the other hand, is a sphinx to me (I think she'll like that). At times sensible, at times flamboyantly weird in a manner that reminds me of Fea. I'd still like to hear her explain her change of mind on Nog.


EDIT: x-ed from #145 down

[A Little Green]

Pitch is so logical and reasonable that it's almost scary. I sincerely wish he's on our side.

[A Little Green]

Bleh. Really need to go to bed now. I probably won't surprise anyone with this one -

++ Nogrod

[Nogrod]

So the people playing (other than me) and available for lynching if we disregard those you can't say anything and Kit (for obvious reasons now):
Aganzir
Greenie
Lottie
Pitch
Shasta

At this point I must admit I'd rather see you all face another Day and let those silent submarines take the hit as this game will become very dull and boring if even few of those who actually post and talk are lynched... whatever the cost of that decision might be.

Let me hear what you think.

And I really need to vote quite soon. Really, this time.


EDIT: X'd with Greenie - now self-preservation mode says "vote Greenie"... oh my... gets too complicated.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Pitch is so logical and reasonable that it's almost scary. I sincerely wish he's on our side.

That depends which side you're on. And at the moment I'm rather worried by getting that much trust. Like Nog said in #148, those who are nicest to you...

Nog, if you're fooling me this time, I swear I'll sneak into Finland somehow and put explosives in your cigarettes.

[Galadriel55]

Back and reading.

[Loslote]

So I'm afraid I can only pop on for a moment before I have to leave - I still haven't finished the reading and I've got less than an hour before it needs to be done.

I am feeling much better about Greenie after toDay's posting, and even Nog's posts are feeling more like a frustrated innocent than a wolf...and I feel good about Shasta and Pitchie, too. Basically...who's up for an Agan lynch?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nog

At this point I must admit I'd rather see you all face another Day and let those silent submarines take the hit as this game will become very dull and boring if even few of those who actually post and talk are lynched... whatever the cost of that decision might be.

You know, I have such a hard time to figure out you talking folks I could actually get behind that.
sally said she'd be back before DL, and I'm inclined to wait still a little for her. Which leaves the self-declared cobbler (Bom), the backstabber and the backstabbée.

EDIT: xed with G55 and Lottie.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Loslote

So I'm afraid I can only pop on for a moment before I have to leave - I still haven't finished the reading and I've got less than an hour before it needs to be done.

I am feeling much better about Greenie after toDay's posting, and even Nog's posts are feeling more like a frustrated innocent than a wolf...and I feel good about Shasta and Pitchie, too. Basically...who's up for an Agan lynch?

-Raises hand, unsurprisingly-

[Nogrod]

Nine votes (possibly) to come.

Kit -> Greenie
Greenie -> Nogrod

Originally Posted by Pitchie

You know, I have such a hard time to figure out you talking folks I could actually get behind that.
sally said she'd be back before DL, and I'm inclined to wait still a little for her. Which leaves the self-declared cobbler (Bom), the backstabber and the backstabbée.

I kind of agree - but as we know, that always begs the question, are we trying to make "too easy" decisions? If Bom would be innocent I'd hate to have been part of his lynching - but then again not playing isn't kind of in the spirit of the game either.

Originally Posted by Lottie

who's up for an Agan lynch?

I might be. But the problem is that she will come back and I need to go to sleep, pronto - and I can see her speaking you all (especially those who will / may come in at the late stages) away from that. Possibly ending in my own lynching which I preferred not to happen.

But I'd feel better voting Agan than Greenie. I still suspect Greenie and I think I have good reasons for it. It's just that I started wawering with my thoughts reading her posting late toDay... although her vote pick still screams to me she was just sweet-talking only to vote from wolvish grounds.

Gah.

[Loslote]

Alright, I've got to go read about Sicilians fighting some Athenians, so I'll go ahead and

++Agan

Because, of all the people who have been posting at all yesterDay or toDay, she's the only one who consistantly gives me a funny taste in my mouth - for agreeing with Nog so much yesterDay (that's why I didn't think they could be in a wolf-pack together; they were arguing too similarly. But, as I've started to reconsider my suspicion of Nog because of his posting toDay, I've reopened the question of Agan's guilt) and for her not exactly helpful arguementativeness throughout the game.

EDIT: xed with Nog