WW LXXXVII - The Valley Forge

[Folwren]

Deadline. Stop posting. Narration will come in time...probably an hour or so, because I'm not home yet and am just passing through a place that happens to have a computer and internet access. Yay!

-- Folwren

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Because I wouldn't like to see tp lynched toDay? Is that good enough?

You feel that good about him 'eh?

All his plan business, I highly doubt he was being serious with doing it, because of how ridiculous it would be to try. It was more likely fodder to be served as discussion. The question is whether it's a red herring to use later (ie he's a snickering Forge members) or if he was trying on of his infamous trap ploys.

--sally

++Bom

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Because I wouldn't like to see tp lynched toDay? Is that good enough?

Other people voted TP as well...

Yes, actually. Nothing more I dislike than a Day 1 throw away vote. It would mean I'd have to wait a day to see sally's reaction, but I'd have to wait regardless.

Who will the unlucky person be?

The Bom wagon looks weird to me. He made some odd comments, but he always says weird things. It's the norm for him. I don't get the sudden-just-before-DL "let's lynch him"-ness.

Edit: xed with Boro and Foley. It's still :59 on my clock.

[Folwren]

The day was filled with fierce argument amongst the villagers. The members of the Forge mingled amongst them, offering their opinions beside those of their innocent victims. One dwarf was very vocal, his shouting rising above the general discourse of the others.

“Ever since the King has sent his dwarves back here to try to solve our problems for us, the Forge has merely become more violent. Folwren was killed because she aided the King’s messenger! What more will happen if we keep him in our midst? Kill him now!”

“How could you offer to kill someone sent to help us?”

“Help us?” the loud dwarf said. “Help us! He hasn’t helped us! Perhaps he could help us if we could force the names of the members of the Forge out of him before we stretched his filthy neck!”

The crowd about him surged in anger, some agreeing with his words, others fiercely arguing for the opposite. Galin Ironfist laughed inside. If they wished to kill him, they would have to discover his identity first, and even the Forge members had not been able to find that out before letting him join them. He bid his time, and waited.

“That’s a marvelous good idea, my dear fellow,” said one dwarf. He ambled up and amiably clapped the loud dwarf on the shoulder. “While we’re asking everyone if they’re the King’s Dwarf, why don’t we ask if they're the Forge members, too? Perhaps they’ll just up and say who they are! Make our job a great deal easier.”

“I don’t like your tone, fellow,” a dwarf at his elbow said. “What’s your name, and are you a member of the Forge?”

“I’m called Bom. Of course I’m not. I was just saying it’d make it easier.”

“You talk too much.”

Bom looked from the dwarf to the others standing about. Their eyes were fixed on him. “Hey, now, it’s all in jest, right? You don’t really think I’m serious…I wasn’t really expecting…”

“We’re tired of jesting. This isn’t a jesting business! We’re being killed one by one! If you can take others’ deaths lightly, perhaps you can laugh at your own!”

An approving murmur ran through the crowd, and the murmur grew to a great grumbling growl. The dwarves reached out and took hold of Bom, dragging him down from where he stood by the loud dwarf, and taking him to the center of the village. They were a blood thirsty and frightened group and no one was there that knew better or who could hold them back. The members of the Forge stayed quiet, and Galin Ironfist remained silent, too, for this was the beginning of his victory.

Someone produced an axe – no one knew who’s it was – and handed it to another. Several dwarves overpowered Bom and tied him, hand and foot. He kicked and thrashed about until the dwarf with the axe stood by his head, then he laid still, his eyes gleaming.

“You’ll be sorry. Every last one of you will be sorry!”

The axe lifted high in the air and descended swiftly. A skilled and clean stroke, and Bom’s head rolled off into the ditch.

The crowd was silenced with the stroke. They looked at the body. The sun dipped behind the mountain’s shoulder and a shadow fell across the square. A cold wind blew silently up the street and the people shivered and turned away, their blood lust sated for the day and dread of the night beginning to set in.

Galin alone stood waiting until the street was clear. Then he approached and took the head by the beard and laid it by the body. He drew his dagger and cut away the cloth of Bom’s shirt by his shoulder and pulled it back, revealing the brand of the Valley Forge.


Alive
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Boro
Galadriel
Eruhen
Glirdan
Finduilas
Rikae
McCaber
Wilwarin
Pitchwife
the Phantom
Mithalwen

Dead
Folwren - Moddess
Bom - Member of the Valley Forge

[Folwren]

Night Two

Find someone who can help you. Someone who you can trust and send ahead to warn people. That had been the advice given to him, and now was the time to take action on it. As darkness fell, before he was required to be at the forge to meet about what to do, he waited and watched, hoping to find the one who could help him. But who could it possibly be? Most of the dwarves slunk off to their homes, bolting their doors behind them, as though that could keep them safe.

Then he saw the one. A dark, hooded figure standing in the shadow of an alley. He glanced up and down the street and then ran across, coming up behind the hood stranger silently.

“Friend, can you help me?”

The dwarf whipped about, and Galin turned his face away. “No, do not try to see me. It is better if you do not know me. But listen, I will bring word each night about this time of whom the Forge may seek to kill. I cannot promise that I will know, but it will be my best guess.”

“Why should your guess be any better than anyone else’s of who the Forge will kill?” the dwarf asked.

“Because I am one of them, but I am also the king’s messenger. So, hark, this night protect with your life. . .” and he whispered a name so low the other could scarcely hear. But he did hear, and he nodded.

“Good luck, friend,” Galin said, and turned away.

The debate at the forge was hot that night. They were angry and distraught, frightened at what Bom’s death foretold them. They knew they had to strike back, hard and swift, and sure, but how? The decision was not quite made and dawn was coming swiftly. “The first one we come to,” they decided. “Quickly now, we must be ready to face them come day break.”

They leaped up, loosed their daggers in their sheaths as they went and exited into the cold open air.

They almost immediately caught sight of the same hooded dwarf Galin had spoken to. Galin recognized the dwarf at once, and he stopped dead in his tracks, struck dumb with horror as his campanions hurried on, locked into their kill.

It was over quickly, and the body was left in the street. When the first dwarvish citizen dared to open his door and peek his beard out, he found the cloaked body of one of their women. He drew back the hood.

It was Wilwarin.

Alive
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Boro
Galadriel
Eruhen
Glirdan
Finduilas
Rikae
McCaber
Pitchwife
the Phantom
Mithalwen

Dead
Folwren - Moddess
Bom - Member of the Valley Forge
Wilwa - Night Watchdwarf

[Inziladun]

Well, they got their revenge for yesterDay.

More immediately, can anything be learned from Bom's comments and interactions?

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, they got their revenge for yesterDay.

Yep. Dang.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

More immediately, can anything be learned from Bom's comments and interactions?

Other than that he was eager to be rid of tp, he seemed to suspect you and McCaber to be in some kind of collusion IIRC (possibly together with tp). But I'll go back and look if there's more.

Speaking of McCaber - Rikae, please enlighten me:

Originally Posted by Rikae

and I don't know what McCobbler is doing (but I know for a fact he's not the KD!)

How can you know that "for a fact", unless you're a member of the Forge and he is not?

[Mithalwen]

Hi I am around ... inspired with a rare "catch" I have been doing some note taking... nearly done will be back soon with conclusions.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

Speaking of McCaber - Rikae, please enlighten me:

How can you know that "for a fact", unless you're a member of the Forge and he is not?

Um, because I'm one of the three people he named?
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[the phantom]

I'll be leaving shortly, but I'll return after 2-3 hours and be around the rest of the day. (Sorry for not being around yesterday. No choice.)

Anyway, I'm definitely not caught up on the specifics of yesterday, but in my quick skim it looked like Sally never explained my vote, so here's the explanation-

Watch

It's a running gag with Sally, Fea, and a couple others to imitate Spike in their Facebook posts and such, saying four words and adding the insult to the end.

While I was visiting Sally a short while ago she did it to me (several times), and suddenly I was struck with the idea to use the joke on the Downs only with Pitch inserted in place of the word that the mods here probably don't want me using as a way to label another member.

The original plan was to say- "You are a Wolf- Pitch", but it didn't fit in these circumstances (there being no wolves in this village), so I changed it to "You must be lynched- Pitch".

Probably not the least bit amusing to non-Buffy fans, but I know at least two people found it extremely funny.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Um, because I'm one of the three people he named?

"And I know of course I'm innocent (although I obviously can't prove it), so if he suspects me, he can't know my role"?

[Mithalwen]

Hmm I think Wilwa was a lucky strike on balance. From my notes she posted little and mainly discussed the game set up rather than individuals.Though her vote was on the money her reasons were more save Phantom than kill Bom.though she did remind us of the special instructions but was that enought to say "Lynch me I'm gifted" to the forge - it seems not to have alerted the KD unless Wilwa went her own way.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, they got their revenge for yesterDay.

Sure did. And Wilwa hardly said anything at all!

I can't stay for long or go searching for interactions and etc, but from toDay's posts, Pitchie's case against Rikae feels a bit... fabricated. I'll be back later with my thoughts in full...

Edit: xed with Mith

[McCaber]

So, yesterDay I forgot it ended at 4 instead of 5. This means that with work I'm going to need to vote quite early, and that I missed the previous vote by like 15 minutes.

So, phantom's plan got discarded early? Makes sense. I thought it was a bit too good to be true. Fortunately, it seems we hit on a Forger anyway.

I'll take a look at posts by and about the lateBomand see if anything trips my radar.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

"And I know of course I'm innocent (although I obviously can't prove it), so if he suspects me, he can't know my role"?

Well, duh. I didn't say "I can prove he isn't"... I can by dying, of course, and it will give me more time for WoW, too.
Actually I can't even say "I know he isn't" since I suppose it is possible the KD could deliberately try to lead the village astray, but I don't consider that too terribly likely (although on second thought it could help win the trust of his fellow wolves and keep him alive longer, too).

Anyway - I'm terribly sorry I didn't vote or participate much yesterDay - I hadn't checked when the DL was and was distracted by RL - but I'll try to do better from here on. I do think we can learn something from Bom's posts. Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right? That wouldput Phantom and Cabbie in a bad light (fake KD bluff attempt?) and whoever went after Bom, while a truly evil Bom would do the opposite.
I'd love to know for sure, well, how much we know. Moddess?
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[Pitchwife]

I'll skip the "Weredwarves reveal", my teasing him about it and his reply to me; they're all on page 1, easy enough to find.

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

"Alas," you say? A wolf desperately trying to kill the second-deadliest member of the village day 1? Not unlikely, I think.

"you" is here Boro; flattering tp and casting some shadow on Boro at the same time.

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I'm torn between keeping phantom around to admire his brilliance (before killing him for being an eeevil li'l schemer) and just plain killing him to, as G55 says, save us some headaches.

Also, phantom's fixation on killing the KD this early seems like a Forger trying to get an obstacle out of the way during the day, when the Watchdwarf can't protect him.

This, apparently, is where he changed his mind about tp and decided to go after him. Also, note the agreement with G55 - not the last time we see them paired.

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I suspect you know exactly what to make of it, and don't want to state it too openly. Why? Who knows? But I shall be watching you as well as phantom.

In answer to this:

Originally Posted by Zil

So tp happened to vote for someone suspected (for no reason) by Cabbie. What to make of that?

Suggesting tp, McCaber and Zil to be in collusion, but still mostly fixated on tp.

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

Tee hee. I suppose I'll be waiting until the last minute to vote . . . well, maybe not.

++TP

Votes tp. Again, following a lead from G55 (and Zil, who however retracted later from tp to Bom).

So far, merely from this, I'd say tp, Boro, Zil and McCaber are unlikely to be Bom's companions in Forgery. G55, on the other hand, could well be one.

The votes for Bom:
Pitch
Mith (2)
Eruhen (3)
Zil (4, retracting from tp)
wilwa (5)
Boro (6, retracting from sally; x-ed with DL, although it was still :59 on the BD clock)

wilwa of course is now a known innocent (and paid with her life for the vote). Mith and Eruhen look pretty good to me for adding wheels to the wagon. Zil and Boro see above.

G55, on the other hand, made an honourable last minute attempt to dissuade people from the Bomwagon. Again, possible packmate.

Which reminds me -

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Other people voted TP as well...

...so why didn't I ask you to retract, is that what you meant? Maybe I had a hunch that you wouldn't be likely to oblige; or if you did retract, you wouldn't use your vote in a way I would have liked.
Not that you couldn't have done it unasked anyway, you know...

[McCaber]

Boms first posts here were just chatter, asking the Forge to step forward and make their identity known. And it was reacted to as such.

Next is this:

Originally Posted by Bom Tombadillo

I'm torn between keeping phantom around to admire his brilliance (before killing him for being an eeevil li'l schemer) and just plain killing him to, as G55 says, save us some headaches.

Also, phantom's fixation on killing the KD this early seems like a Forger trying to get an obstacle out of the way during the day, when the Watchdwarf can't protect him.

which seems an awful like just badmouthing tp, or (if tp is indeed a Forge-ite) it could be an attempt to create an appearance of division between them. I'm leaning heavily towards the first right now.

He leans on Inzil a bit for not catching an inside joke, and gets a verbal smack back for it.

He votes phantom, hopping on a barrelling bandwagon against him. I'd say this looks like more evidence for phantom's innocence.

And Inzil and Eruhen voting him at the last moment also speaks volumes towards innocence in both of them, as his lynch was by no means set in stone.

[Rikae]

I didn't think Bom got the inside joke, though, Cab - he seemed to read something else into it (or want others to, anyway).
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[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by McCaber

So, phantom's plan got discarded early? Makes sense. I thought it was a bit too good to be true. Fortunately, it seems we hit on a Forger anyway.

.

So in ch that case why did you jump straight in to complying with it?

I have notes on everyone and at the moment Pitchwife looks pretty innocent to me. He picked up on Bom early and so his vote was consistent, Discussed the situation and TP's plan and was calm in the face of TP's fairly bizarre vote. Also in no hurry to dispose of the only other player in a close timezone...

Galadriel worries me a lot. I may be a poor judge because she was my abandoned cub the one and only time I have played with her but I have filled twice as much paper on her but it is a bit careful. Not much original - she agrees with Nerwen a bit, says Boro's predicitions is coming true. She does pick up on Eruhen's odd "nothing to add" in the face of TP's plan and points out that the plan is a de facto reveal - but seems to be looking for a way round it. On the less original side there are vote counts within 4 posts of each other, a list that draws no real conclusions - Wilwa and Pitch seem more innocent. Sort of stuff that makes a player look diligent but doesn't actually commit them - and all the misguided panic over the deadline- taking up Nogrod's cyber sheepdog role. Then the last minute attack on the bandwaggon.. just seemed it might be a fausse-naive bluff....

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Pitchie's case against Rikae feels a bit... fabricated.

That's not a case (yet), it's a question. And perhaps a test.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Well, duh. I didn't say "I can prove he isn't"... I can by dying, of course, and it will give me more time for WoW, too.
Actually I can't even say "I know he isn't" since I suppose it is possible the KD could deliberately try to lead the village astray, but I don't consider that too terribly likely (although on second thought it could help win the trust of his fellow wolves and keep him alive longer, too).

Exactly. Not that I consider it terribly likely either, but I'm glad you got my point.

Originally Posted by Rikae

I do think we can learn something from Bom's posts. Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right? That wouldput Phantom and Cabbie in a bad light (fake KD bluff attempt?) and whoever went after Bom, while a truly evil Bom would do the opposite.
I'd love to know for sure, well, how much we know. Moddess?

Foley's last word on the Admin thread was we'd know when the KD died. If she's changed her mind about that, it would be fair to let everybody know.

And about Bom-as-KD specifically: I know it's considered bad form to try and draw conclusions from the narration, but -

Originally Posted by yesterDay's narration

The dwarves reached out and took hold of Bom, dragging him down from where he stood by the loud dwarf, and taking him to the center of the village. They were a blood thirsty and frightened group and no one was there that knew better or who could hold them back. The members of the Forge stayed quiet, and Galin Ironfist remained silent, too, for this was the beginning of his victory.
[...]
Galin alone stood waiting until the street was clear. Then he approached and took the head by the beard and laid it by the body. He drew his dagger and cut away the cloth of Bom’s shirt by his shoulder and pulled it back, revealing the brand of the Valley Forge.

I like to think such a diligent writer as our Moddess would have phrased this differently if Bom himself had been the KD.

But supposing for the sake of argument he was, did he leave any hints about his role?

EDIT: x-ed with Mith, whose cyber sheepdog Nogrod totally cracked me up. I love you!

[the phantom]

About to head out again, but first I'll post some thoughts of my Day 1 skim...

First- wow! I was really close to dying, ha ha! Had I realized what was going on here my drive home would've been much more anxious.

Anyway-

Just as a point of interest, Bom, Gal55, Eruhen, Inzil, and Nerwen seem to think of the baddies as Werewolves (judging from their wording here and there) even though the baddies in this village are not Werewolves.

Others, such as Finduilas, Boro, and I, seem to make a point of calling the baddies what they are- Forge members or bad dwarves etc.

I have no idea if that means anything at all. I thought it was possible that people that had spent a good deal of time with the rules and thinking about things would naturally lean away from saying "Werewolves", and I also thought it possible that the bad dwarves would not refer to themselves as such, knowing that they weren't Wolves, you know, but Bom ruins that theory... Unless of course in their discussions they referred to themselves with classic pack terminology and it stuck in their minds and it carried over to the game thread. Who knows?

Originally Posted by Boro

I could have added eye rolls to show those posts were filled to the brim with sarcasm, but if phantom (or anyone else) interprets as sucking up, that's fairy nuff.

Ha ha, no, I didn't think you were sucking up. Quite the opposite- I figured you were addressing me as carefully as possible according to your formulas involving me not being able to read you directly and also opening up an opportunity for you to read me etc. In a way the attitude felt copied and pasted from other Day 1s when you've spoken to me.

Originally Posted by Gal55

I'm torn between voting some submarine or tp. The problem is, almost anybody except for tp is kinda sub-ish. Including me. And it's soooooooooo tempting to lynch phantom. At least just to show him that it can be done... But, on the other hand, I'd hate to lose "the second most deadliest person in the village" (or whatever it was that Bom called him) if he's innocent. But I'd dance on my head if he'll be a fenris.

Meh, I don't like this attitude. It's the old fan the flames and make the idea sound palatable while at the same time displaying disapproval. "Look people, isn't it tempting? But actually, I'm uneasy."

Originally Posted by Inzil

Because G55 looks less suspicious.

Why did you say that after you changed your vote from me to Bom? What was the connection?

Originally Posted by Rikae

This seems to be a flaw in the plan, though:
"This player will appear to be one of the members of the Valley Forge."

Does this mean the KD isn't revealed on his death?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right?

Foley specifically said-

Originally Posted by Foley

I think that roles will be revealed as long as the King's Dwarf is still alive.

Originally Posted by Foley

You will definitely know when the King's Dwarf dies.

With her saying that I felt fairly secure there would be no loop-hole in my loop-hole plan.

Gotta run now, but just to give an idea of my basic feelings- I seriously doubt I'm voting for Eruhen, Rikae, Mith, Inzil, or Pitch today.

[Mithalwen]

My notes on Bom were :

Invites werewolves to reveal. Later responds to Pitch noting this but not to my more strongly worded suspicion.

I didn't get eht "alas" in p 16 couldn't see who he was quoting . Think someone mentioned Boro later - I'll go back,

Then there is the Kill TP or not TP thing, deadline query with Galadriel.. and apart from that he is so devil may care that he might as well have revealed.

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

So in ch that case why did you jump straight in to complying with it?

Because if it WAS allowed to fly, it'd be a great way to get information out. I agreed with it, even though I didn't know if our Moddess Goddess would let it.

[Eruhen]

Well, I'm setting out on my road trip significantly later than I thought I was. Good thing, too, since I got to see all of this.

Well, certainly seems like the Forge got their revenge for our fenris. I reiterate my statement from Day 1: who asked to live in interesting times?

I don't have a lot of time to post before I head out the door, but I do want to make sure I get this in:

++G55

...for the reasons others have posted, but mainly for her last-minute defense of Bom.

If I'm able to get access later, that might change; for now, though, I'm going with her.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Just as a point of interest, Bom, Gal55, Eruhen, Inzil, and Nerwen seem to think of the baddies as Werewolves (judging from their wording here and there) even though the baddies in this village are not Werewolves.

Yes, I know we're not dealing with wolves, per se, but they act like wolves. What's the difference? If it kills like a wolf...

Originally Posted by the phantom

Why did you say that after you changed your vote from me to Bom? What was the connection?

The connection as that they'd both followed my vote for you. When I made it, I had every intention of checking closer to DL to see if anyone had opportunistically mimicked me. When Pitch asked if I'd retract, I did so, and went for Bom as the one whose vote I thought looked worse.

x/d with Eruhen

[Inziladun]

Let's see. I'm feeling pretty good about Eruhen, since she tied Bom with tp. Boro's vote might seem the least shiny of the Bom-voters, just because it came so late. Baddies have little to lose by putting another nail in a doomed mate's coffin, and everything to gain.

I'm curious to hear Finduilas's explanation for her vote on me. At the time, tp was in the lead with three votes, and Bom had two. Could a newbie-Innocent who was merely pressed for time not choose between one of them? Or was it a safe throwaway by a newbie wolf?

[Galadriel55]

The Day is already getting eventful! Me likes that!

Originally Posted by Rikae

I didn't think Bom got the inside joke, though, Cab - he seemed to read something else into it (or want others to, anyway).

I don't get it either. I don't even get what exactly was the joke.

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Galadriel worries me a lot. I may be a poor judge because she was my abandoned cub the one and only time I have played with her but I have filled twice as much paper on her but it is a bit careful.

That made me really happy again, MommieMith. I can assure you that I talked just as much as an ordo in Lottie's game as I did as a wolf in Zil's game.

Originally Posted by Mith

Then the last minute attack on the bandwaggon.. just seemed it might be a fausse-naive bluff....

.......Comming from MommieMith who doesn't really like bandwagons herself.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I'm curious to hear Finduilas's explanation for her vote on me. At the time, tp was in the lead with three votes, and Bom had two. Could a newbie-Innocent who was merely pressed for time not choose between one of them? Or was it a safe throwaway by a newbie wolf?

Seconded. Very curious. I wouldn't put her under either category until she explains.

[Finduilas]

Hm. I'm feeling terribly out of this game, I've been too quiet. Let's see if I can fix that.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

I'm curious to hear Finduilas's explanation for her vote on me. At the time, tp was in the lead with three votes, and Bom had two. Could a newbie-Innocent who was merely pressed for time not choose between one of them? Or was it a safe throwaway by a newbie wolf?

Zil, my vote for you was a case of... indecision (with a smidgen of time pressure too). I wanted to vote for both TP and Bom, but I dislike killing people on the first day (sorry, always have, I'll show more backbone toDay), so I voted for someone who had no votes, and who had not particularly struck me as a definite innocent. So I haven't decided on you yet, but that's why I voted for you. Actually, considering your retraction vote from Phantom (who'm I currently think is "innocent", though most other players seem to have termed him as evil, Forge member or not...) to Bom, I think I might trust you...

Originally Posted by Eruhen

Alsø alsø wik, the longer the KD has to give hints to the NWD, the better idea the NWD has of who's in the Forge and who isn't. The Forgers obviously aren't going to attack their own, so whatever names the KD gives to the NWD are known innocents. So, between the two of them, the KD and NWD work as a pseudo-Seer. Benefit to keeping both of them around as long as possible.

I like this thinking. Pity the Watch Dwarf died...

Alright, that's all for now. I will do my utmostest to be more active tomorrow (but still toDay).

[Galadriel55]

I found something else rather curious. TP voted Pitch. Pitch voted Bom. Bom voted TP. Interesting triangle. Contradictory conclusions are the only ones that come to my mind atm, so I'll have to address this again after a night of sleep. From the first look, Pitch and Phantom come out clean and shiny from yesterDay's vote. But I won't rule out a wolf-on-wolf yet. Fine. Forger-on-Forger. But I will still call them wolves. Evil werewolf spirits remain such regardless of who they posess and what shape they take. *stares at phantom*

And since I'm here, I can also say that Pitch is acting abnormal toDay, making an elephant out of a fly with Rikae. This isn't supposed to be related to my previous statement - at least in my head, - but they both stand... I think...

That's it. Bedtime. I'm stuttering in typing.... if that made any sense..... *head drops, eyes close*

Edit: xed with Findy

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Finduilas

Zil, my vote for you was a case of... indecision (with a smidgen of time pressure too). I wanted to vote for both TP and Bom, but I dislike killing people on the first day (sorry, always have, I'll show more backbone toDay), so I voted for someone who had no votes, and who had not particularly struck me as a definite innocent. So I haven't decided on you yet, but that's why I voted for you.

Since you remind me of myself last game, where ordo!me chose to neither save or to condemn a gifted but rather to throw away my vote, I won't yell "wolf!" at that...

Originally Posted by Findy

...Phantom (who'm I currently think is "innocent", though most other players seem to have termed him as evil, Forge member or not...)

But he is! Ask anyone, and they'll tell you that he's an evil genius.

Now, bedtime. Really. Night, all!

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I do think we can learn something from Bom's posts. Can we be sure he wasn't the KD? I don't think our moddess ever answered the question about the KD's role being revealed, right? That wouldput Phantom and Cabbie in a bad light (fake KD bluff attempt?) and whoever went after Bom, while a truly evil Bom would do the opposite.
I'd love to know for sure, well, how much we know. Moddess?

The narration has the "Galin Ironfist" character as still around, so I'd say not (unless that's a smokescreen, or something).

Funny thing is, Bom made some darned strange comments yesterDay, even for him– could he have been trying to pose as the KD? The obvious reason would be to throw the Sweetheart and Watchdwarf off– but would that be worth the risk of being suspected by his own packmates? Or is this just a case of Bom acting weird whatever his role?

Originally Posted by the phantom

Just as a point of interest, Bom, Gal55, Eruhen, Inzil, and Nerwen seem to think of the baddies as Werewolves (judging from their wording here and there) even though the baddies in this village are not Werewolves.

Others, such as Finduilas, Boro, and I, seem to make a point of calling the baddies what they are- Forge members or bad dwarves etc.

I have no idea if that means anything at all.

...How pedantic the player is? I hadn't thought about it, actually, but I suppose I've been calling them "wolves" out of a mixture of habit and convenience. I'm probably going to keep on with it too. This isn't a compulsory RP-ing game, phantom.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Let's see. I'm feeling pretty good about Eruhen, since she tied Bom with tp.

"He", not "she". Just letting you know.

[the phantom]

All righty- here's the voting from yesterday.

Phantom++Pitch
Boro++Sally
Inzil++Phantom
Gal55++Phantom (2)
Bom++Phantom (3)
Pitch++Bom
Mith++Bom (2)
Findu++Inzil
Eruhen++Bom (3)
*Inzil--Phantom (2)*
Inzil++Bom (4)
Wilwa++Bom (5)
*Boro--Sally (0)*
Boro++Bom (6)

Now, as I was driving home thinking about what to post, it hit me- I've been thinking of voting ALL WRONG! Now, I haven't had time to be terribly thorough with reading, but if I recall correctly I don't think anyone has pointed out something very very important which flies in the face of common voting logic that has been voiced thus far.

What am I getting at?

It is entirely possible that this particular group of baddies is more likely than any Werewolf pack to purposefully try and lynch one another during the day!!

Now duh, of course we knew the KD was working against them, but what about the others? All they know is that THEY are not the traitor, where as every one of their fellows is potentially a double agent.

So, without a Seer or Hunter to fear, it seems to me that the logical play would be to kill the other Forge members. And in fact accusing all three of your fellow members might be a smart play as it would make them extremely unlikely to turn against you, as they might fear that you are the KD and killing you would expose them.

But of course I just read Foley's ruling and it appears we won't be informed about the KD any more, so the position has changed somewhat. Going after all of your fellows together isn't so smart any more, but it's still perfectly acceptable to try and lynch one. And if you are questioned about it at night, the defense is "I thought he might be the KD".

So, what that means is this- people that saved an innocent Phantom by voting for a guilty Bom cannot be given the usual weight in the innocence column.

All right- what do the rest of you think? If I was a Forge member I'd probably kill all the others and win it by myself.

(edit: vote tally)

[McCaber]

Well, it looks like I'll have to vote now. I feel pretty confident, nonetheless.

++Galadriel55
for trying to stop a lynch of the Forge-ite Bom Tombadillo, and coming close to succeeding.

EDIT: crossed with tp

[McCaber]

Originally Posted by the phantom

It is entirely possible that this particular group of baddies is more likely than any Werewolf pack to purposefully try and lynch one another during the day!!

Now, I don't really know about this. It seems to me that even if there's a traitor among their ranks, every conspirator the Forge loses makes their overall victory that much harder. Every day they don't lynch an innocent is a day that slows them down. That, and Bom really didn't seem to give any suspicion of being the KD. In a touch-and-go thing like that, I think they'd want to get an innocent out of here rather than someone who *might* be working against them.

But I could just naturally be a team player, even in a hypothetical situation like that.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Now, as I was driving home thinking about what to post, it hit me- I've been thinking of voting ALL WRONG! Now, I haven't had time to be terribly thorough with reading, but if I recall correctly I don't think anyone has pointed out something very very important which flies in the face of common voting logic that has been voiced thus far.

What am I getting at?

It is entirely possible that this particular group of baddies is more likely than any Werewolf pack to purposefully try and lynch one another during the day!!

Now duh, of course we knew the KD was working against them, but what about the others? All they know is that THEY are not the traitor, where as every one of their fellows is potentially a double agent.

So, without a Seer or Hunter to fear, it seems to me that the logical play would be to kill the other Forge members. And in fact accusing all three of your fellow members might be a smart play as it would make them extremely unlikely to turn against you, as they might fear that you are the KD and killing you would expose them.

But of course I just read Foley's ruling and it appears we won't be informed about the KD any more, so the position has changed somewhat. Going after all of your fellows together isn't so smart any more, but it's still perfectly acceptable to try and lynch one. And if you are questioned about it at night, the defense is "I thought he might be the KD".

So, what that means is this- people that saved an innocent Phantom by voting for a guilty Bom cannot be given the usual weight in the innocence column.

All right- what do the rest of you think? If I was a Forge member I'd probably kill all the others and win it by myself.

Believe it or not, I was just about to make this same point– it's been a nagging back-of-the-mind thing with me for a while, but I hadn't quite got it into focus. Yes. The wolf tactics (or Forge-member tactics, if that makes you feel better) are going to be completely different from normal. Probably anyhow– you do have to bear in mind that we have a number of inexperienced players.

EDIT:X'd with McCaber.

[Nerwen]

Also, it does depend a lot on the personality of the wolves– how ruthless, how confident at being able to win alone, etc. So I wouldn't say for certain that the Forge members would go all out to kill each other, only that they might.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Boro's vote might seem the least shiny of the Bom-voters, just because it came so late. Baddies have little to lose by putting another nail in a doomed mate's coffin, and everything to gain.

The fact that it ended up last in a string of last minute votes is mis-leading. I crossed with everyone since my post responding to Pitch on whether I would be willing to retract my vote.

So, in truth, you, wilwa, and me, all voted at the same time and my vote coming at the end is coincidental since your magical internet pixies may have transferred the info a fraction sooner, or your fingers were just that much faster.

[the phantom]

I understand what you're saying, McCaber- in normal conditions I NEVER kill my packmates. It's practically my number one rule as a baddie. But in this game one of your mates is against you and so long as he is alive you're very vulnerable. The traitor can take down the entire Forge, particularly if he finds his sweetheart and the both of them are trying to lynch the same people during the day (the other people in the village would definitely catch on if KD & Sweetheart do a joint attack, and it wouldn't count as revealing either because there'd be no way for a common player to know which is which- the two of them would basically be unstoppable).

May as well try to make it alone, especially if you're someone like me that believes you will pull it off. Like I said- no Seer to be scared of, so no reason for a forceful and active player to be nervous if he thinks he can influence the vote enough to stay alive each day.

(x-post Nerwen & Boro)

[the phantom]

I would love to do a reread of yesterday with the dwarf-eat-dwarf mentality in mind, but I'm too tired. I'll be around tomorrow.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Hmm I think Wilwa was a lucky strike on balance. From my notes she posted little and mainly discussed the game set up rather than individuals.Though her vote was on the money her reasons were more save Phantom than kill Bom.though she did remind us of the special instructions but was that enought to say "Lynch me I'm gifted" to the forge - it seems not to have alerted the KD unless Wilwa went her own way.

This seems likely to me– nothing she said seems like an obvious Ranger-hint. (Ahem! I'm afraid can't help recalling here a Mithwolf some games back explaining just why the pack killed Shasta...)

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

So in ch that case why did you jump straight in to complying with it?

And McCaber says this in reply:

Because if it WAS allowed to fly, it'd be a great way to get information out. I agreed with it, even though I didn't know if our Moddess Goddess would let it.

Um... you know, McCaber, no offence, but I'm not sure that's even an answer. Mith asked you why you jumped straight in without knowing if the plan would be allowed, and you said, "Yes, I did."

Originally Posted by Mith

Galadriel worries me a lot. I may be a poor judge because she was my abandoned cub the one and only time I have played with her but I have filled twice as much paper on her but it is a bit careful. Not much original - she agrees with Nerwen a bit, says Boro's predicitions is coming true. She does pick up on Eruhen's odd "nothing to add" in the face of TP's plan and points out that the plan is a de facto reveal - but seems to be looking for a way round it. On the less original side there are vote counts within 4 posts of each other, a list that draws no real conclusions - Wilwa and Pitch seem more innocent. Sort of stuff that makes a player look diligent but doesn't actually commit them - and all the misguided panic over the deadline- taking up Nogrod's cyber sheepdog role. Then the last minute attack on the bandwaggon.. just seemed it might be a fausse-naive bluff....

She's an enigma to me. Honestly, her opposition to the Bom-waggon really doesn't look that suspicious. I mean, if you were an ordo who suspected phantom, and then there was a last-minute push to lynch an "easy target" instead– you might well think you were seeing an evil bandwaggon. On the other hand, as you say, she posted much and said little yesterDay, and toDay her defence of Rikae against Pitch's "case" seems over-the-top– perhaps a "white knight" act? (Now, if he had really been going after Rikae it would be different– but I don't think he was.)

EDIT: Fixed bolding; clarification