Itaril

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I still say, when PJ stuck with the original plot, the movie was magical. Even when dialogue of one character in the book was stated by another character in the movie, it was moving. But everytime PJ strayed away with his fancies, the sequences were farcical. Think about it:

I don't know...I think PJ just plain didn't want to do the elves right. I'm just hoping that Golden Haired Thranduil doesn't end up dish water blonde (Hi Celeborn the gray) or with a receding hairline. Of course, that would make special snowflake Tauriel look so much better next to that ugly old elf....

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

From a related comment in another thread:

Originally Posted by Rumil

And another Mary-Sue-iel...

... strong female roles are thin on Middle Earth in Tolkien's work ...

Which begs the question: So why introduce them?

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

... I think PJ just plain didn't want to do the elves right...

The elves? Look what short shrift he gave the hobbits! I mean, the wounded Frodo didn't get to ride Glorfindel's great white horse to safety at the Ford of Bruinen. The brunette elf chick Arwen got to do that. Merry didn't get his big dramatic scene with Théoden on the Pelennor Fields, sending the dying King off to drink mead with his ancestors in Valhala. The Rohan blonde chick, Éowyn, got that big moment. And of course, all the hobbits lost out when they didn't get to scour the Shire of evil men, Saruman, and Wormtongue. Talk about getting royally screwed so that some barely mentioned Appendix girls could get in more implausible, forced screen time swapping spit with -- or simply drooling over -- Aragorn. The elves got off lucky by comparison.

Now that Peter Jackson has to make a movie ostensibly about one particular hobbit -- and a confirmed bachelor at that -- he invents yet another elf-chick character to waste precious screen time that the schizoid Smeagol-Gollum could easily employ to memorable effect. If any character deserves an expanded role in these films, then the pathetic/treacherous Smeagol-Gollum does. I mean, face it, the elves have pretty much given up on Middle-earth. They mostly just want to leave. So I say, let them. At any rate, Bilbo Baggins and Smeagool-Gollum have more to do with the fate of Middle-earth than any elf-chick afterthought possibly could. These films should make that truth abundantly clear.

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

Of course, that would make special snowflake Tauriel look so much better next to that ugly old elf....

I have no confidence that the special snowflake Tauriel will look anything but instantly risible next to just about anyone: elf, dwarf, man, or hobbit -- ugly or otherwise.

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

The elves? Look what short shrift he gave the hobbits! I mean, the wounded Frodo didn't get to ride Glorfindel's great white horse to safety at the Ford of Bruinen. The brunette elf chick Arwen got to do that. Merry didn't get his big dramatic scene with Théoden on the Pelennor Fields, sending the dying King off to drink mead with his ancestors in Valhala. The Rohan blonde chick, Éowyn, got that big moment. And of course, all the hobbits lost out when they didn't get to scour the Shire of evil men, Saruman, and Wormtongue. Talk about getting royally screwed so that some barely mentioned Appendix girls could get in more implausible, forced screen time swapping spit with -- or simply drooling over -- Aragorn. The elves got off lucky by comparison.

Well by elves, I was mainly referring to the male elves...to be frank, I tend to forget Arwen was even there. Out of the male elves, Elrond now has a receding hairline, anger management issues, and a hatred of men. Celeborn has grey hair and a speech impediment, Haldir and co are apparently such bad soldiers that every single one dies at Helm's deep, Legolas apparently has to state the obvious (A Diversion! Orcs! A Chair!*) every single time, and half the unnamed elves, you can't even tell their gender.....

Now that Peter Jackson has to make a movie ostensibly about one particular hobbit -- and a confirmed bachelor at that -- he invents yet another elf-chick character to waste precious screen time that the schizoid Smeagol-Gollum could easily employ to memorable effect.

Ahh...but then PJ wouldn't have his own characters, and he'd just be *gasp* following what the books says. Everybody knows that audiences these days can't watch movies that don't have Action! Hot Women! Dumb Jokes!

If any character deserves an expanded role in these films, then the pathetic/treacherous Smeagol-Gollum does. I mean, face it, the elves have pretty much given up on Middle-earth. They mostly just want to leave. So I say, let them. At any rate, Bilbo Baggins and Smeagool-Gollum have more to do with the fate of Middle-earth than any elf-chick afterthought possibly could. These films should make that truth abundantly clear.

Not all the elves do...Celeborn and Thranduil both stay past the end of the War of the Ring, which is a big reason that I like them better then Elrond or Galadriel...they seem so much more alive. It's also one of the reasons I dislike this Tauriel character so much - he already has wonderful elves in Galion and Thranduil for Mirkwood, he doesn't need another one.

I have no confidence that the special snowflake Tauriel will look anything but instantly risible next to just about anyone: elf, dwarf, man, or hobbit -- ugly or otherwise.

That was sarcasm on my part...note the special snowflake description. I only call people that when I'm implying that they're really only special because mommy (or in this case, PJ) thinks they're oh so special. PJ, in my opinion, has messed up so badly that he's no longer deserving of the term adapter - he's no better then a glorified fanfic author.

*One of these might be an invention on my part, however, everybody knows Legolas was thinking it at some point.

[Galadriel55]

I think that TMT has a good point about Gollum. That's one interesting character, with plenty ways to develop it more (although in LOTR PJ simply murdered it! ). I think that he should get more attention than some Itaril-Tauriel blasphemy. Unless it's going to be an expanded version of that sequence where he decays alive as he turns into that colourless skeleton...

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Originally Posted by LadyBrooke

... note the special snowflake description. I only call people that when I'm implying that they're really only special because mommy (or in this case, PJ) thinks they're oh so special.

I like that "special snowflake" characterization. I had gotten stuck trying to fill out the last line of a verse stanza with something that had to rhyme with "cast" or "passed," etc. I really wanted to use "aghast" but I couldn't make it fit following the comic-book references in line 5. Your mention of a snowflake at least gave me something to work with. Still not what I wanted to get across, but at least I've got something passable for the present. Thanks again for the helpful suggestion.

Murkwood Mary Sue's come back
Rebranded and recast.
First "Itaril" imploded, now
It’s "Tauriel" who’s passed
From Vicky Vale to Lois Lane:
A snowflake melting fast.

I give the elves credit for trying to write poetry, Tolkien's own favored means of literary expression. However, since I don't speak, read, or write Elvish dialects, I have to go with Bilbo Baggins as the hobbit Homer of Middle-earth. Naturally, none of this versification stuff has a chance in hell of making it into a Peter Jackson hack-and-slash action extravaganza. Now, if instead of Murkwood Mary Sue disemboweling orcs, wargs, and giant spiders, this Tauriel turned into an elegant, elvish Edna St. Vincent Millay, saying of the world's cruelty and injustice:

I know.
But I do not approve.
And I am not resigned.

... then I could appreciate such truly feminine strength and character. Of course, Galadriel would deliver such lines with more authority than Murkwood Mary Sue, just returned from her morning kung-fu choreography training, but if this story absolutely has to have something quintessentially elvish going on in King Thranduil's household while Bilbo skulks about, unseen, looking for a way to free his dwarf companions, then I would not mind witnessing a timelessly young elvish wordsmith audibly composing trenchant verse in King Thranduil's library. I think an invisible Bilbo would find that experience both enchanting and edifying, as well.

And then I woke up ...

[LadyBrooke]

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

I like that "special snowflake" characterization. I had gotten stuck trying to fill out the last line of a verse stanza with something that had to rhyme with "cast" or "passed," etc. I really wanted to use "aghast" but I couldn't make it fit following the comic-book references in line 5. Your mention of a snowflake at least gave me something to work with. Still not what I wanted to get across, but at least I've got something passable for the present. Thanks again for the helpful suggestion.

You're welcome! I really like your poems. I'd try one, but in my family, my sister got all the poetry skills, and I got the essay writing skills...But yours are wonderful.

Naturally, none of this versification stuff has a chance in hell of making it into a Peter Jackson hack-and-slash action extravaganza. Now, if instead of Murkwood Mary Sue disemboweling orcs, wargs, and giant spiders, this Tauriel turned into an elegant, elvish Edna St. Vincent Millay, saying of the world's cruelty and injustice:

I know.
But I do not approve.
And I am not resigned.

... then I could appreciate such truly feminine strength and character. Of course, Galadriel would deliver such lines with more authority than Murkwood Mary Sue, just returned from her morning kung-fu choreography training, but if this story absolutely has to have something quintessentially elvish going on in King Thranduil's household while Bilbo skulks about, unseen, looking for a way to free his dwarf companions, then I would not mind witnessing a timelessly young elvish wordsmith audibly composing trenchant verse in King Thranduil's library. I think an invisible Bilbo would find that experience both enchanting and edifying, as well.

I don't think I'd mind this character, if she was what you are describing - a minor background character, inserted to set the mood in Thranduil's caverns, acting in an elvish fashion. Unfortunately, she's some mary sue of a modern woman, poorly disguised as an elf. *sigh* I'm just hoping that she isn't inserted onto the White Council or anything - one woman on the Council - Galadriel, not Tauriel. Also, I'm wondering who all they're going to place onto the Council - Galadriel, Saruman, Radagast, Gandalf, and Elrond of course. But what about Celeborn or Cirdan, neither of who, as far as I am aware, have been cast. If Tauriel gets on it, and neither of them do.... Must remember to wear pointy high heels to the movie that day....

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Originally Posted by Rumil in another thread:

... strong female roles are thin on Middle Earth in Tolkien's work ...

Granted, but I think that certain characteristics of hobbits: namely, their shyness, love of growing plants, and relatively small stature, for example, substitute in many cases for appearance and behavior that men typically associate with women. I wouldn't go so far as to call hobbits "effeminate" by nature, but they do tend to live and act in ways antithetical to the adolescent, swaggering machismo that animates so much of infantile male mythology. Therefore, by creating morally "strong" hobbit characters like Bilbo and Frodo Baggins, Tolkien essentially provided what strong, mature women would have supplied, but without the mythological penalty of putting girls into a boy's fantasy adventure.

I say these things because I once wanted to pay tribute to a strong woman who I consider one of my country's real heroes: a mother who had lost her son in Iraq who subsequently confronted the President of the United States from a position of enormous relative powerlessness but far greater moral authority. For inspiration, my first thoughts turned to Shakespeare's Measure for Measure, where Isabella pleads with a judge for her condemned brother's life. Then I thought of Macbeth and Hamlet in reference to the unequal struggle with bloody power figures. Then I thought of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, specifically "Riddles in the Dark" and "The Shadow of the Past," respectively. Then this happened:

Metrics for Measure
(Dedicated to Cindy Sheehan)

The pricking of his thumbs begins to sting
As something wicked comes his way unsought:
The awful truth about the play as thing
Wherein the conscience of the prince is caught

Now Isabella camps outside his ranch
Her silent supplication real not fake
Her rude requests for justice make him blanch
Her simple power poised to grab and shake

Her time, down in a roadside ditch, she bides
With twenty*-hundred crosses witness mute
While safe within his bubble he resides
The gashes in the dead his lies confute

His thought no counsel credible informs
So on he stumbles, mouthing scripted rhyme
Upon the gibbet’s scaffold he performs
For his allotted fifteen minutes’ time

An angry ape with glassy essence clear
Before high heaven trotting out his trick
Afraid of nothing quite so much as fear
Which makes splenetic angels laugh till sick

Assured of his own ignorance he pressed
To have himself informed of what he knew
In little brief authority he dressed
So as to mask his nakedness from view

His counselor, the clown, roved here and there
Professing, like Rasputin, cures to know
For royal hemophilia laid bare
As turds that blossom on the frozen snow

But still the would-be great no greatness had
They thus could only mock the small who sobbed
Until disrobed, in disrepute unclad,
Their perfidy showed clear to those they’d robbed

But Gandalf once to Frodo Baggins said,
In telling him his uncle Bilbo’s tale,
That even small ones lost in fear and dread
Can turn the blast of fortune’s greatest gale

For Bilbo spared the vicious Gollum’s good
In pity of one long so lonely lost
And would not strike him even though he could
Which in the end saved all great evil’s cost

No doubt some live who maybe ought to die
And some that die deserve to live instead
But who shall make of his own life a lie
Who deals out death in judgment of the dead?

And as the wizard might have said at length
What Isabella did, a court to sway:
How excellent to have a giant’s strength
But tyrannous to use it in that way

For even very wise ones cannot see
The end to all the mischief that ensues
From feckless fights and their mad misery
As complex as a rainbow’s many hues

And as such smallish suitors might combine
Soliciting compassion as their cause
They plead for pity in a single line
That pelting petty officers might pause

For making thunder just to hear the noise
And lightning just to see the awe and shock
If overused by adolescent boys
Will look more like the chicken than the hawk

They like it well enough when first they think
That all will go exactly as they dream
But soon enough they shun the fetid stink
That clogs the nose and gags them till they scream

Those wise who hold great power in reserve
And do not waste it in a foolish deed
Have moral power more which well will serve
When faced with future’s grave and greater need

Thus Isabella Baggins now implores
The one who can to pity those who serve
And bring them home from bloody foreign shores
To reap the future lives that they deserve

We only ask for metrics we can use
To measure what is often promised glib
By bureaucrats who went and lit the fuse
And now can only hedge, and stall, and fib

The prince from all his lies, has not escaped
Despite the chimps and baboons that he aped
Upon this dwarfish thief with soul misshaped
His title's giant robe hangs loosely draped

* Note: As of early 2008, the number of dead American soldiers in Iraq had reached 4,000 – or “forty hundred,” as the poetic meter would have us mark the doubling yet again of premature graves filled with more luckless victims of vainglorious venality.

Michael Murry, “The Misfortune Teller,” Copyright 2005, 2008, 2011

So, it appears that deep down in my own psyche, I associate strong women and hobbits, without the distracting violence and sexuality that attend more "modern" conceptions of "femininity" and "strength." Whether Tolkien intended that sort of subliminal association or not, I cannot say; but it seems to me that with the best qualities of hobbits to work with, Professor Tolkien did not require much in the way of overt female roles to communicate his major themes and issues.

Just a few thoughts and verse stanzas on the subject ...

[Nerwen]

I think some named Elven characters would be needed (yes, even in a hypothetical faithful version). I mean, Elves turn up quite a bit in the book, but are mostly referred to collectively : "they said this", and "they said that". That would probably not work in a film. So I've got no objection to PJ throwing in an Elf-maid named Tauriel– as long as she's a minor character, and not another version of "Itaril".

Here's hoping the change of name indicates a change of plan. Jackson has supposedly said she's not to be Leggy's love-interest, which reduces the Mary-Sue factor somewhat.

On the other hand, there's speculation she's going to be Bard's love-interest...

Oh, and though in every reference to this new character on the net, she's "Tauriel, daughter of Mirkwood", the name doesn't, in fact, mean this at all. Wonder where that came from.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, and though in every reference to this new character on the net, she's "Tauriel, daughter of Mirkwood", the name doesn't, in fact, mean this at all. Wonder where that came from.

It was taken off Jackson's facebook page but may be elsewhere too; and I think it's likey from someone on the Jackson team, a sort of simplification: as the name appears intended to mean 'daughter of the forest' -- and the particular forest in reference (so to speak) is popularly known as Mirkwood (or Taur-e-Ndaedelos 'forest of great fear').

Thus Jackson, or someone, 'simplifies' it in this way: 'daughter of Mirkwood'.

[Mithalwen]

I suppose that it is so luxiouriously cast that even Raft elves and the hunting/feasting elves areliable ot be"names" and I suppose there is no great harm if the spokes rafte elf were female however I have no faith itwill be jsut that.

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

On the other hand, there's speculation she's going to be Bard's love-interest...

At this point in the revolting development, I've begun to not care if "Murky" becomes romantically attracted to Smaug, or vice versa. Something along the lines of Fay Wray and King Kong, only the reptilian version.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

At this point in the revolting development, I've begun to not care if "Murky" becomes romantically attracted to Smaug, or vice versa. Something along the lines of Fay Wray and King Kong, only the reptilian version.

Well, PJ did film an over-produced but ultimately mediocre version of King Kong. Perhaps he has run out of plot bunnies and had to borrow one from there.

[Galadriel]

What about this Tauriel chick? I heard she's affiliated with Thranduil and/or Legolas...

[narfforc]

The name Tauriel say to me The Lady of the Forest.....will she be Thranduil's wife?


Orome= Tauron= Lord of Forests/Forester.

Galadriel= The Lady of the Tree.


Any thoughts on this?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by narfforc

Galadriel= The Lady of the Tree.

Galadh=tree. Galad=light. Riel=rig+el=garland+lady

Galadriel=Lady Crowned/Garlanded with Light.

Tauriel: taur=forset -iel=daughter Tauriel=Daughter of the Forest


Why the speculations about Elvish, though?

[Galin]

Well it's not the first time someone thought Galadriel's name was associated with trees...

'When Celeborn and Galadriel became the ruler of the Elves of Lórien (who were mainly in origin Silvan Elves and called themselves the Galadhrim) the name of Galadriel became associated with trees, an association that was aided by the name of her husband, which also appeared to contain a tree-word; so that outside Lórien among those whose memories of the ancient days and Galadriel's history had grown dim her name was often altered to Galadhriel. Not so in Lórien itself.' Unfinished Tales

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Galadh=tree. Galad=light. Riel=rig+el=garland+lady

Galadriel=Lady Crowned/Garlanded with Light.

Tauriel: taur=forset -iel=daughter Tauriel=Daughter of the Forest


Why the speculations about Elvish, though?

J. R. R. Tolkien did not invent this pseudo-character Itaril/Tauriel. Peter Jackson did. And Peter Jackson says that the name means "Daughter of Mirkwood," referring to the name that men gave to Greenwood Forest after the Necromancer (i.e., Sauron) began spreading his evil shadow over the place in 1050 of the Third Age. Peter Jackson, a man (of sorts) has created this pseudo-character and given it (her) a name derived at least partially from the languages of men and not exclusively from the languages of elves.

In reality, though, given the transparent pandering to teeny-bopper/horny-adolescent consumer demographics, the name most likely means "actress with breasts from the television series Lost who mostly appears in tight-fitting jeans and a wet t-shirt."

As for all the Tree-Worshipping stuff -- especially in Northern Europe -- I recommend Chapter IX from Sir James George Frazer's The Golden Bough (a Study in Magic and Religion):

http://www.bartleby.com/196/17.html

Personally, though, if I had to choose between gods in trees vs godesses in tight-fitting jeans and wet t-shirts, I'd choose, well, ...

[Galadriel55]

(I'm sure this was mentioned before, but I can't find where)

"Tauriel" - Daughter of the Forest - could have no other meaning than "The Daughter of the Mirkwood Forest". PJ and his simplifications.

I think it's better that PJ invented his own name, even if he used Tolkien' elvish. I can't help associating "Itaril" with Idril (wel, PJ took it from here), and I don't want to lose respect for her.

[Galin]

Also Itaril is attested as the Quenya form of Idril, so while not impossible, shirly something Sindarin is better here.

Tauriel is not derived from a Mannish language, and fits Quenya in form and meaning as well as Grey elven... though again better thought of as Sindarin for an Elf of Taur-e-Ndaedelos.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by TheMisfortuneTeller

J. R. R. Tolkien did not invent this pseudo-character Itaril/Tauriel. Peter Jackson did. And Peter Jackson says that the name means "Daughter of Mirkwood," referring to the name that men gave to Greenwood Forest after the Necromancer (i.e., Sauron) began spreading his evil shadow over the place in 1050 of the Third Age. Peter Jackson, a man (of sorts) has created this pseudo-character and given it (her) a name derived at least partially from the languages of men and not exclusively from the languages of elves.

What G55 and Galen said. The name is Elvish, not Mannish, and doesn't literally mean "Daughter of Mirkwood", anyway. It's really not a bad choice.

Of course, this is to say nothing of what the actual character will be like, something about which we can only speculate.

[narfforc]

If such a person as Tauriel ever existed then it is by no means whatsoever that she would be Daughter of Mirkwood Forest. If she were related to Thranduil or his father Oropher she may well have been a Sindar and not Silvan, if so then she may have been a survivor of Doriath or come from Lorien, nothing can be taken for granted here........ if you are going to make things up then why not make her the sister of Amdir or Amroth.....Thranduils wife....Legolas's sister.... blah blah blah.. we know nothing of this elf other than she doesn't exist... the same as Lurtz didn't and Ugluk did.

[Galin]

Forest-daughter is an apt name for a female Elf who lives in a forest, whether Sindarin, Silvan, or Avarin. Just like L(a)egolas 'Green-leaves' is a good 'foresty' kind of name.

That said, Jackson's 'loose translation' and description (I think he refers to her as Silvan) points to her being one of the Tawarwaith of Mirkwood.

[Galadriel]

Originally Posted by Galin

Forest-daughter is an apt name for a female Elf who lives in a forest, whether Sindarin, Silvan, or Avarin. Just like L(a)egolas 'Green-leaves' is a good 'foresty' kind of name.

Though you have to admit, 'Forest Daughter' is a much more Mary Sue-ish name than 'Green Leaves', especially when given to an OC.

[Morthoron]

I fell in love with the "forest daughter",
And it took quite a while to get her.
For she's more prolific than she ought'er
With many an Elf for to bed her.
And now I've had trouble passing water
Ever since I met her.

[Galin]

Originally Posted by Galadriel

Though you have to admit, 'Forest Daughter' is a much more Mary Sue-ish name than 'Green leaves', especially when given to an OC.

Heheh; I guess for some this name simply will not prove good enough

In any case, I note Lúthien 'flower-daughter' according to Tolkien after The Lord of the Rings was published (before The Lord of the Rings was in print Tolkien imagined it meant 'enchantress' rather). Here -ien 'daughter' rather than -iel in Tinúviel 'twilight-daughter, nightingale'

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

I fell in love with the "forest daughter",
And it took quite a while to get her.
For she's more prolific than she ought'er
With many an Elf for to bed her.
And now I've had trouble passing water
Ever since I met her.

OK. Nice idea. So how about:

Elvish STDs

I fell in lust with the "forest daughter."
Through bushes and brambles, for ages I sought her.
She wanted a ring, so I heard, which I bought her
From dwarves who for payment insisted I slaughter
Some goblins for them. This I did, then I brought her
The thing she desired. Was she happy? No, not her.
It turned out her mind she had changed, now she thought her
Affections best lavished on men who had fought her.
So this I did, too. And I won! I had caught her!
But bad luck for me, no one ever had taught her
About elf diseases, and so when I got her
She gave me a pain when I try to pass water.

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

RELEASE ONE of this “Itaril” idea crashed
And burned because the concept truly stank.
Rebranded then as “Tauriel,” and unabashed,
RELEASE TWO offered even less: a blank
Generic name with nothing but the same rehashed
'Strong female role" -- or Mary Sue -- to thank.

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

"I'm five feet two,
With eyes of blue,
With brown hair to my shoulders --
A manly elf
So full of self
The ladies say he smoulders."

Kurt Vonnegut, Welcome to the Monkey House

You-Know-Him

He's six feet two,
Has eyes of blue
And blonde hair to his buttocks --
An action elf
Right off the shelf,
Direct from Sears and Roebuck's.

You-Know-Her

She's five feet eight
With eyes of slate
And hair down past her shoulders.
A killer elf,
Pure Death herself,
With breasts as big as boulders.

Michael Murry, The Misfortune Teller

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

If at first you can't sell Mary Sue as "itaril," change the spelling of her name to T-a-u-r-i-e-l and try again.

A Name by any other Name ...

Daughter of vegetation,
Child of the flowers and plants,
Offspring of trite derivation,
Sweetheart of movie romance,

Formula role for an actor,
Paid to look lovely on cue,
Storywise, hardly a factor:
Anything sexy will do.

Show up for filming and fake it
Who’s to care what you might do?
Jiggle and wiggle and shake it.
Strike a cute pose for the crew

Try to look fierce yet alluring
Try to look deadly but sweet
Prior to, after, and during
Scenes where you turn up the heat

“What’s in a name?” you inquire.
“Nothing at all,” we reply.
Just fan the flames of desire
Then have the good grace to die.

Michael Murry, The Misfortune Teller

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

Actress Evangeline Lily worries that Tolkien "purists" won't like her wet-T-shirt impression of an elf-chick security guard named Itaril/Tauriel (or, whatever) who just so happens to have no place in the story that Tolkien wrote. Speaking only for my impure self, I'd say she has good cause to feel that way. I had almost forgotten her, but If she makes one more public announcement reminding me of her needless and pointless presence in The Hobbit, I may have to write another scatological poem in her dishonor. ...

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011...r-hobbit-role/

[Galadriel55]

But Lilly admits she is terrified Tolkien devotees won't respond well when the movie epic is released next year

She better be! Though it's not her fault. Blame PJ.

"The Hobbit didn't include female characters at all. I can see why additional characters were needed to round out the story as an adaptation, especially female characters.

"I am very concerned that people will watch and I'll be the black mark on the film. I know how adamant the purists are and I'm one of them."

I kinda wonder if she really is, or if she's saying this just to please me... well, us, "purists". If I was asked to play a stupid hot elf-chick (not that I'd ever be ) I would refuse, unless I was up to my ears in debt and needed money that badly.

[Mithalwen]

Well it depends what her role is. If it just happens that there is a raft elf who happens to be a female named Tauriel I doubt many will be so bothered as if she in some way befriends Frodo and aids him liberate the dwarves. Which I fear since I don't htinkI have seen casting for the chief Gaoler and Galion.

[Galadriel55]

But, you see, the point is that there shouldn't be a female rafter. What would a female do on the raft? They have better things to do. There must be some purpose for such a character. And that could be no other than playing the hot-elf-chick-princess-Xena.

Her role has to be very important, otherwise why would they go through all the trouble with Ronan, and then with Lily? Obviously it's not just a random rafter (that is both uncanonical and pointless)...

[Mithalwen]

Not necessarily so. Obviously the silvan elves in HoME Tolkien says that among the Eldar while some tasks tended to be carried out by neri or nissi there was no absolute bar (save I think Lembas) and women only fought in defence... it amuses me that food cooking was largely the province of male elves which leads me to suspect that barbecue featured heavily and hope that they did their own washing up....

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011...iel-in-elvish/

She just won't shut up. She keeps telling anyone who will listen that, yes, she really does have a part in this movie -- no matter how lame and unnecessary -- and also that she gets to practice all sorts of language and stuff for whatever she gets to do in a movie that doesn't require her presence.

Itaril/Tauriel
Please shut your trap a spell

Elvish or English
You're just not what we would wish

OK, you got a part:
Wet T-shirt Hooters' tart

Just what The Hobbit needs:
Elf-chick that really bleeds

[Inziladun]

I like this:

"Pete, Fran and Phil, they're not going to create a character who is not true to Tolkien's world," she said, referring to Peter Jackson, Fran Walsh and Phillippa Boyens, who co-wrote the screenplay for The Hobbit.

Really? Like they wouldn't twist one of Tolkien's characters in directions contrary to their depictions in the books, for the sake of being more "cinematic"?

And she's admittedly afraid of "rabid fans". Like I've been saying, since Liv Tyler's still thriving, Ms. Lilly should have no worries.

[mark12_30]

I find "Forest Daughter" vaguely reminiscent of "River Daughter" and it doesn't horrify me too much.

...after all this hate and discontent, I almost hope that I like her.

[TheMisfortuneTeller]

I see where the studio -- which otherwise enforces total secrecy -- continues allowing You-Know-Her to blab in public, hoping to drum up some kind of mall maiden interest in a Mary Sue elvish security guard with large breasts. Oh, please. Just hand me the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. Why drag Tolkien into this smut?

And how does one "open up" about completely contrived emptiness? I liked the cleavage on display but couldn't bear to listen to the promotional blurb. Therefore, I'll just post the link for those with a stronger stomach than I possess.

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011...s-a-pub-owner/

I get the point that You-Know-Her has a part in this movie playing something or someone that Peter Jackson first tried to sell as "Itaril" and -- when that blew up in his face -- tried again with another name, "Tauriel." Whatever.

If at first you cannot sell
That which doesn't go down well
Try again, and hope like hell
That no one gags from just the smell

[Elfchick7]

I'm not going to lie, I was prepared to grin and bear her part in the films, but I was insulted by that AccessHollywood interview on TORN. I mean, if the point of the interview was to allay our fears, then calling us rabid and then intimating that we would be pacified by the fact that she acted in LOST was definitely not the way to go.

Also, that vapid reporter has no idea what she is talking about. I have met many Tolkien fans over the years and they are not the least bit rabid. On the contrary, they are well-adjusted, well-read, intellectual sorts, who enjoy good literature and intelligent, reasoned conversations. So, unless rabid has become the new slang for "capable of critical thinking", or "unwilling to be force-fed the rubbish that frequently comes out of Hollywood", then that interview missed the mark in a huge way.