Werewolf LXXXI: Under the Misty Mountains

[wilwarin538]

Okee.

Sally -> Phantom
Lottie -> Phantom (2)
Rune -> Lommy
Greenie -> Nerwen
Nogrod -> Izzy
Mira -> Phantom (3)
Boro -> Wilwa
Lommy -> Greenie

So, so far our only rep is Phantom, and if he gets another vote I believe that means he gets 2 lynch votes (right??).

So nobody else vote him, or that would be annoying.

And I think if you see that your vote choice already has 2 votes, just pick someone else. The more reps the better.

x'ed with Eonwe and reworded last sentence for clarity

[Eönwë]

Actually, I'm not sure about Zil. His not voting point seemed good at first, but it may well be something that could help the Elves. Then again, it seemed well-meaning at the time. He was also the first person to suggest not voting, which might be something too obvious for a wolf. Though he may have just been trying to lure unsuspecting innocents (or at least, true orcs) to agree with him, and therefore make them look suspicious (and if someone didn't vote for this reason, would also mean less orc-votes). On the other hand, it seems more to me like he's advocating thinking/waiting until people have actually started posting before voting (instead of doing a Sally), which is just reasonable.

In any case, even if there is a chance he's evil, it might be a good idea to vote him in as a representative to force him out of the shadows (both literally and figuratively).

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by the phantom

On Day 1 in particular, some people have to just take a flying leap and do something! And in a game like this especially, as it's not completely a tragedy to accidentally vote for a SoE early anyway, as it would be instructive to see what he does with the power you give him. Not to mention the fact that the SoE wish to control the vote, and so it's completely possible that they will look like the best candidates if you wait around!! Meaning that your best chance of not voting for a SoE is to vote completely on a random whim and let the simple percentages dictate if you're right or not!

So it's good to vote randomly because having an SoE as a rep this early is useful later, but also because you're less likely to get one?

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right? Not to mention, most of the people throwing suspicion around right now are doing so based upon the early voting and reactions to it! If everyone followed your advice (and not voted), we'd be back at square one as far as suspicions!

Well, in a normal game, why not give a Day 1 vote before 95% of the players have posted? We're supposed to be electing people we think will vote for the SoE's, so doesn't it come to the same thing?

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

This is my first representative game, and it's very possible that my brain isn't totally understanding it, but from what I can see the best way to do it would be for us to not give anyone more than 2 votes, right? Cause once they have 2 votes they're a representative, and if they get more than they start gaining more power.

Makes perfect sense to me.

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Anyway, my point. Phantom is a rep now, nobody else vote for him. These caves are small enough already, I'd rather not have his ego take up even more room.

Hear, hear!

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Wilwa (she turned up at last, yay!) and Nog are making sense. Also, whatever is the Emperor's cat? Legate?

Looks like it's my bedtime now, and since the deadline is 4 AM my time I won't wake up to vote then.. So I'll vote

[highlight++ Nerwen for rep[/highlight

Because she is independent-minded and clever and if she's innocent she can do a lot of good in that position - and if she isn't, a Nerwelf is, in general, such a sly case that forcing her into the spotlight wouldn't be such a bad idea.

I've thought about voting Nerwen, but I'd like to see more of her.

Originally Posted by Nogrod

So how is it... tp has two votes (enough) and Lommy and Nerwen have one each?

I have nothing against those three ending up as representatives. Basically I have nothing against more or less ayone becoming a representative at this stage of the game: it would be interesting to learn more about everyone.

So for me it comes down to deciding whether to vote for someone I tend to trust a little, who is loud and enigmatic, who is very careful, who is hiding in the shadows...

I think you will take care enough loudmouths get to be elected so I'll start a new trend then.

[highlight++ Izzy for representative[/highlight

She is very good and I always have hard times reading her. I'd like to see her contribute more, already at this stage of the game and not only when the numbers have dwindled.

Hm. She's only made one post, so I'd have a problem voting Izzy right now.

Originally Posted by Mirandir

[highlight++phantom for rep[/highlight]

Ah, come on. Isn't there a game rule about not feeding the phantom's ego? And was no one else even in the running?

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Vote me for rep...I'll vote to lynch phantom. No lie.

You do make a strong campaign!

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

This is my first representative game, and it's very possible that my brain isn't totally understanding it, but from what I can see the best way to do it would be for us to not give anyone more than 2 votes, right? Cause once they have 2 votes they're a representative, and if they get more than they start gaining more power. Well I don't like the idea of just a couple people having a lot of power (and maybe a couple amoung them having even more). I'd rather have half the people have all the same amount of power. That gives us more stuff to analyse, and makes it harder for the SoE to get too much power (unless, like all 4 of them get voted as representative, but at least if they don't have more pull than the other reps it wouldn't be so bad). Did that make any sense?

It does, but then what's the point of having representatives if you're just effectively shrinking the village to half its size?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

So, so far our only rep is Phantom, and if he gets another vote I believe that means he gets 2 lynch votes (right??).

Each Representative gets as many votes as were given to him by the other players to get him elected. To clarify: three people have voted for the phantom, so he currently has three votes to cast.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

It does, but then what's the point of having representatives if you're just effectively shrinking the village to half its size?

Well, it's just better than putting all the power in the hands of like 3 people. And the more votes there are, and the more spread out they are for different people, the more information we'll have. If everyone today voted for only 3 people, then when the second half of the Day starts those 3 people would not have a lot to go on, and than the following day when we want to look at reps we'd only have 3 people to look at, and since everyone will have voted the same the day before than that's not a lot of info.

Anyway, my point, more information the better, easier to find patterns and connections between people, so the more reps the more info, etc etc.

Right now I will likely vote for one of: Nog, Lommy, Boro, Legate or Greenie. Because they're shiny, and I agree with them mostly, and I think they'd be very smart voters. Though having some quieter ones would be great too, so Nerwen and Izzy would be good choices, and Inzil. Hmm....I'll probably wait til closer til DL (since I will definetely be around then).

x'ed with one of the lovely Modesses

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Mira

Deal. And I'm holding you to that.

Well well, I didn't actually expect that in the least. Well then... I'm an orc of my word, and I will at some point in the following two weeks take a picture to prove I have kept my end of the bargain. *bows*

Originally Posted by Folwren

Really, Mirandir? Did you really not do any reading before voting for Phantom? Weren't you paying attention? Guess not.

Why do you assume she did not read, and even if she didn't, why would that have changed her vote? I haven't seen anyone say anything incredibly compelling to discourage her from doing as she has done.

Why be so condescending, as if you know better? You do realize don't you that at this stage you and everyone else knows absolutely nothing, right? For all you know I'm the flippin Seer and Mira spotted something that you didn't.

Originally Posted by Boro

By your own admission you've never been lynched... The chance to be the first one to ever lynch the phantom is too enticing to resist.

Um, I believe this is the 1,314th time I've had to say this, but- I have never claimed such a thing. I was lynched fairly early on- in the third WW game on this site. Where does this "never been lynched" myth come from?

Right now I'm trying to decide if you are foolish enough to fabricate a reason for lynching me that is so incredibly easy to disprove.

All in all Boro I have not been a fan of yours to this point. You're getting hung up on things you'd normally realize were pointless, and just... No, I'll say no more. Just, you know, shape it up, or I'll begin to think these lapses are intentional.

Originally Posted by Lommy

And you think they would really be so intimidated by you? *raises an eyebrow*

The SoE fear being lynched, and if something is happening that increases those odds, they would most definitely become fearful of whoever it is holding those votes.

Originally Posted by Lommy

And while I agree no one knows anybody's alignment (are we really discussing this?!), you can make a better guess at somebody's alignment after 24 hours than when the game has just started.

I agree in some cases, but it still remains but a guess- particularly on this first day. And if the SoE are playing well early then your guess will logically have a worse chance of being right than a random vote. That's simply the way things are, like it or not. Don't act like those early voters made some sort of serious sacrifice by voting early. They didn't vote stupidly- they voted differently.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Each Representative gets as many votes as were given to him by the other players to get him elected. To clarify: three people have voted for the phantom, so he currently has three votes to cast.

Oh, so all Representatives automatically have 2 votes?

x'ed with Puddingtom

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Well, that's interesting. Than perhaps the SoE will not want to be reps, maybe it'll bring too much attention to them, while non-reps can just glide on by. But then again of course they want to be reps, that gives them power, which the Elvies wants.

I think they'll probably want to be reps as late in the game as possible. However obvious that may sound, my point is that on Day 2, the reps will be under less scrutiny than on Day 1, and so on, because there will be more other things to go on (in terms of suspicion). So, as well as being more important later on, I think the Elves will want to reps later because they'll have less focus on them.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

To clarify: three people have voted for the phantom, so he currently has three votes to cast.

So does that mean that they can be split up?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Eonwe

So it's good to vote randomly because having an SoE as a rep this early is useful later, but also because you're less likely to get one?

For the most part you've got it.

Basically, my point is that it doesn't matter enough that it should be as big a deal as people are making of it.

Given the right circumstances, the odds of voting right later in the day don't necessarily increase, and under this set up it might actually prove useful later to be wrong early anyway. I'd say the primary difference in the way you stated it and what I meant was that you said that it's "good" to vote randomly, where as my point was more that it's "not bad" to vote randomly.

[the phantom]

Oh, and just for the record, I don't have enough votes.

Would you like to see me dressed up a certain way in a picture? Perhaps you'd like me to visit? Or you'd like me to never visit? Or would you just like to receive some cold hard cash in the mail? I am absolutely willing to negotiate. Name the price of your vote.

Boro- I'll sport a "I hate Ohio St" shirt. Cel- I'll buy you another one of those awesome outfits you wore on New Years. Glirdan- I'll make your dream of being kidnapped and delivered to Boston come true. Kath- I'll start watching Doctor Who.

Lommy- I'll delete my account after the game and never return.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I was going to say wilwa and Nogrod's same proposals was a good idea. We should still probably stick to that. Give 2 votes to someone, making person a rep, and stop it at that. Phantom will just have 3 now, no reason to trash the reasonable proposal.

The numbers don't add up for this (Unless some people don't vote). What happens to the last vote?

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Would you like to see me dressed up a certain way in a picture?

So tempted, but no. You already have too many votes.

Originally Posted by Eonwe

I think they'll probably want to be reps as late in the game as possible. However obvious that may sound, my point is that on Day 2, the reps will be under less scrutiny than on Day 1, and so on, because there will be more other things to go on (in terms of suspicion). So, as well as being more important later on, I think the Elves will want to reps later because they'll have less focus on them.

I get your point, but I don't think I totally agree. I think because they will be so important later on, they'll have even more focus on them. But because their influence will be so much bigger then (since there will be less of them at a time), than I think the SoE will desire the position even more by that point, whether they have a lot of focus or not.

I'm going to disappear for a bit, but I'll definitely be back well in time for DL.

x'ed with Eonwe, well if everyone votes than either someone will only receive 1 vote and not be a rep, or someone else will need to have 3 votes. But there will likely be atleast one person who doesn't vote *cough*Kath*cough*, so we'll probably end up with a bunch of 2Reps and then the one 3Rep. But I think we should avoid giving anyone more than 3 votes. (but also be careful that we don't end up with a bunch of people with just 1 vote, and not get any representatives, )

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, if I understood what Fea said correctly, then eurgh for phantom already having three votes! Disgust, utter disgust.

Anyway, as for my options:

Foley
Glirdy - okay, not really probably (see above - just out of "dragging into the light", but now with phantom having so many votes, I feel more like putting there somebody I trust, not somebody about whom I just want to get info)
Greenie (has 1 already)
Izzy (1)
Lommy (1)
Nerwen (1)
Nog
Wilwa (1)

I would prefer to vote for somebody who already has a vote, so as to ensure that somebody gets there. We need to get there as many people as we can, like it was said many times. The worst thing would be to have dozen of people with one vote and only phantom for rep

So out of those Greenie's been a possibility for several people, so I may leave her for the others. Same with Lommy, whom I am not so terribly keen to vote anyway. Nerwen was mentioned partially by some, though not strongly, I might vote her for the sake of it, but... Right now I would prefer Foley, if only I was sure that somebody else will vote her too, so that my vote is not wasted. Any volunteers? Wilwa is right now a bit enigmatic to me, so maybe leaving that be for now.

EDIT: x-ed with several...

[Eönwë]

Well, out of Legate and Greenie, I'm going to vote

++Greenie



Because I like her reasoning and don't think that she's evil.

[Celuien]

I'm finally here and catching up on the minutes. Halfway through... I've been reveling in the evilness of demolishing a camp near the mountain. Bwhahaha.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Celuien

I'm finally here and catching up on the minutes. Halfway through... I've been reveling in the evilness of demolishing a camp near the mountain. Bwhahaha.

Yes! A true orc, bursting onto the scene and finding pleasure in her evil deeds!

At this point I'd say Celuien should be one of the leaders to be a rep. We'll see what she says after reading.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I would prefer to vote for somebody who already has a vote, so as to ensure that somebody gets there. We need to get there as many people as we can, like it was said many times. The worst thing would be to have dozen of people with one vote and only phantom for rep

Indeed. It would be nice to have a couple more who can approach or rival tp's power, for balance.

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

So out of those Greenie's been a possibility for several people, so I may leave her for the others. Same with Lommy, whom I am not so terribly keen to vote anyway. Nerwen was mentioned partially by some, though not strongly, I might vote her for the sake of it, but... Right now I would prefer Foley, if only I was sure that somebody else will vote her too, so that my vote is not wasted. Any volunteers? Wilwa is right now a bit enigmatic to me, so maybe leaving that be for now.

I've been leaning toward Boro, but I could possibly go for Lommy or Wilwa as well, since both seem reasonable at the moment.

x/d with Eönwë, xed, and tp.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Phantom

Raise your hand if you know precisely who is a true orc and thus deserving of your vote.

Of course they don't know my alignment! Who knows anyone's alignment?! I mean, really, what a meaningless comment to make. Voting for me is no different than voting for anyone else, other than the fact that I am more likely than most to show up and vote and be vocal and vote according to a plan.

Not entirely untrue, but definitely taken out of context. Phantom - it seems pretty clear to me that Lommy was talking about how early Sally and Lottie both threw away their vote onto you for no reason (they can quote statistics all they like, I have yet to see an actual full-fledged reason for them other than the fact that, well, you're you).

Originally Posted by Phantom

I even got the vote train rolling, which is of course about the most important thing we'll be looking at in this contest.

I don't believe you did. Just because the votes were for you, it doesn't follow that you started the entire thing, so I think you're attributing a bit much to your own good self, as usual.

(Sidenote: It's hard for me to be genuinely angry at Phantom after having met the guy, but man, he does frustrate me sometimes. )

Originally Posted by Rune

It's not a meaningless comment. She's right. At least Sally threw her vote to you directly without hearing anything from anybody else. In Day 1 there are definitely ways to get ideas or hunches about people, and she didn't even wait for that. You and Sally treat Day 1 as though it were a perfect waste, and Lommy treats it as though it were not, and you bash her for it. Sir, we may all be 'evil orcs' but I'm getting a feeling that you're more evil than the rest of us, because you're willing to trample on people and their ideas.


But it IS clear-cut, Phantom. People should wait and let their ignorance be enlightened if at all possible before voting.
And he IS right about not voting in ignorance. Absolutely he's right. To not vote is idiotic, but to vote blindly and out of ignorance is even worse.

I really like this post of Rune's. He seems more clearheaded and focused than I usually see him (take this with a grain of salt as it's been ages since I played with the man), and I like it.

Originally Posted by Phantom

You know better than this, Boro. To vote for me at that stage was frankly quite impressive in some ways. On one hand, it displays a "Might as well" attitude, which shows nerve as well as an understanding of where we are on this first day. And also, it fed in nicely to the underlying motive which was simply to create discussion and get the ball rolling.

Wrong, wrong, wrong on all counts. "Impressive"? Really? Would you be saying the same thing had Sally and Lottie voted someone like, say, Folwren? A 'might as well attitude' shows 'nerve'? I think not, it pretty clearly shows that Sally and Lottie don't really feel like playing before Day 2 starts (which, in a sidenote, also makes it look like they are sure they'll be around for said Day 2... something to consider). An 'understanding of where we are on this first day'? Coming from you, that translates to "Vote for Phantom because today won't matter and it will be amusing!" Well, so what? While amusing the moddesses would be a happy side effect of playing this game, I personally am here to win. So are you, so you've said, which makes me wonder if there's not some sort of contradiction here.

Greenie's #83 probably sums this up more succinctly than I have, but I'm typing my replies as I see posts. Speaking of Greenie, she's another one I like today.

Given all this, though, I do think Phantom has a point here, re: Inzil:

Originally Posted by Phantom

You agreed way too quickly to something that is not nearly so clear cut as you put forth, and your suggestion of not voting, well... I really don't like it. If all the SoE are voting for each other, encouraging others to sit on their votes would be a great way to gain larger sway over the lynch.

And Inzil's defense here -

Originally Posted by Inzil

I didn't suggest not voting as a practice, but I find it preferable to making a random one without examining as many people as possible. And I also said anyone not voting should be held accountable and made to explain.

...I don't know, something just seems wrong with it. I think it's the "and I also said" that is pinging my radar, as if Inzil is, I don't know, trying to please everyone, which is an Elf trademark.

Originally Posted by Phantom

But what's so wrong about voting before you have a hunch on this day?! Seriously, what are the odds you'll get a halfway strong leaning, and what are the odds it will be right? Not to mention, most of the people throwing suspicion around right now are doing so based upon the early voting and reactions to it! If everyone followed your advice (and not voted), we'd be back at square one as far as suspicions!

Simple. How are we to analyze votes tomorrow were everyone to say "oh, disregard yesterday's vote, it was simply random"? It's insanely easy for a wolf to hide behind such a move, and it gets the town nowhere with analyses and such. I fail to see why you wish to deny information to the town, Phantom.

Just saw Mira's vote at #103, and while frustrating... it really doesn't surprise me too much.

Originally Posted by Folwren

Phantom, I'm curious - are you going to be at all flattered when you become a rep only because people voted for you without thinking?

Hahaha, I love this person (guy? girl?).

Originally Posted by Phantom

Don't act like those early voters made some sort of serious sacrifice by voting early. They didn't vote stupidly- they voted differently.

Voting for someone based solely on the strength of A) their personality and B) what they've done in past games is stupid, sorry. I love Sally and Lottie to pieces, but it was.

I wonder - was there anything in the rules about not voting ourselves? I should go check that.

Right now my vote could go to Rune, Nerwen, Lommy, Greenie, or Izzy. I need to think a bit more. I could also vote myself.

Edit: X'ed since Eonwe's vote (I think).

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by the phantom

At this point I'd say Celuien should be one of the leaders to be a rep. We'll see what she says after reading.

Why?

x/d with Shasta

[Inziladun]

Bah. Need to vote now, as I'm not sure I'll make it back before DL.

++Boro for rep

I still think there's something odd in the first two votes for tp, and Boro seems like a good alternative.

Maybe someone else will vote for him, too.

[the phantom]

What's the obsession with balance anyway? Do you honestly want balance?! We ought to wish for lopsided domination by the orcs! Who cares how many votes I have so long as you don't think I'm a SoE (which I'm not).

Originally Posted by Shasta

How are we to analyze votes tomorrow were everyone to say "oh, disregard yesterday's vote, it was simply random"? It's insanely easy for a wolf to hide behind such a move, and it gets the town nowhere with analyses and such. I fail to see why you wish to deny information to the town, Phantom.

Ah, but who would truly accept such reasoning tomorrow? I mean, heck, you're already suspicious of it.

Originally Posted by Shasta

I have yet to see an actual full-fledged reason for them other than the fact that, well, you're you

And what's wrong with that anyway? Perhaps Lottie thought, "All right then, I'll play his game. Let's see where he's trying to go with this." For all I know Lottie and Sally are testing me with the power and will come out against me tomorrow.

Originally Posted by Shasta

Voting for someone based solely on the strength of A) their personality and B) what they've done in past games is stupid, sorry. I love Sally and Lottie to pieces, but it was.

Past behaviors are not to be completely ignored, nor is personality. Those things always factor in at some level when you are with familiar faces, and so I think it is rather harsh to accuse them of being stupid when, to this point, they and Mira are the only villagers that I know for a fact have voted for a true orc and not a SoE.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Phantom

they and Mira are the only villagers that I know for a fact have voted for a true orc and not a SoE.

And you can't expect us to be led around by the nose and believe you when you say that.

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by Inzil

Why?

It goes back to that tantrum I threw at the beginning- the fact that we orcs are the bad guys, and I'm sick of this wishy-washy nonsense about trying to paint ourselves as the good guys. Let's be bad and enjoy it, I say! And Cel came right in displaying that attitude, and it made me smile. So yeah, no other reason than that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I am basically half asleep already... so... the idea is... will anybody vote for Foley if I do? That's my dilemma. Otherwise, Greenie's been voted for, I could vote Izzy, but she seems to have some support possible from several people, Nerwen and wilwa possibly too, whatever...

So should I be brave and point people towards Folwren instead of just talking about it, or go with somebody else - probably Nerwen...

[the phantom]

Shasta- you don't have to have 100% proof of that statement to understand that the point is a nice support for my overall argument. The fact is, what they decided to do had just as much chance of yielding positive results as whatever they would've attempted later in the day, and from my unique perspective I can see quite clearly that they at the least elected an orc. What else do you want me to say?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The fact is, what they decided to do had just as much chance of yielding positive results as whatever they would've attempted later in the day

This is flawed. Sure, if you want to go by pure statistics, then yes, you can say this. However, this game is not played on statistics alone. If it was, we'd all be accountants, and I wouldn't be playing because I hate math. The fact is, Sally and Lottie both voted before any information could be gathered, based on nothing from inside this particular game. You may say that this fact is irrelevant all you like, the fact is that it's not irrelevant at all. Yes, it's possible that you're innocent and that from your point of view, Sally and Lottie (and Mira) have voted for an orc. However, no one else (not even they) can be for sure that you're an orc, unless they're an elf. And before you reiterate your previous argument, let me state that both Sally and Lottie voted for you before you even showed up, which means they had no in-game basis for voting you, and Mira admittedly read nothing of the thread before voting you so she's basically in the same boat. The fact that they voted you does not mean that they're innocent - in fact I think it points at just the opposite - and I fail to see why you consistently defend them for such an anti-town play.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Izzy

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by myself

and I fail to see why you consistently defend them for such an anti-town play.

Addendum - unless it's of course that they voted for you, and your "knight in shining armor" syndrome is kicking in.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, I really cannot think anymore, and since nobody seems to help me with the particular concern I have now, I will go to sleep now. And since Izzy already got the vote too, then it is clearly of my other options,

++Nerwen for rep

Good night.

[Celuien]

That was quite a twisty read - quicker to get lost in that than in the tunnels. Sorry if I repeat things, as I'll admit some of it ended up getting skimmed.

My thoughts on whom I'd like to see as a representative at this point...

I want orcs with minds of their own. The SoE are a sneaky group of rats and I'd think that even with this representative system, louder members of the group are apt to try to steer voting, especially in the chaos of the first days. That said, I equally dislike having the votes being dominated by a few since that sets up far too easy a hiding place for quiet orc-killers. And a position with all of the power concentrated in one place would be tempting for the tricky, loud, steering SoE, if they exist.

I find nothing odd about tp's campaign to lead, but I don't think it helps me decide if he's a true orc or not. In any case, I think that debate has been discussed extensively enough above, and I'm not inclined to go there again.

Would you like to see me dressed up a certain way in a picture? Perhaps you'd like me to visit? Or you'd like me to never visit? Or would you just like to receive some cold hard cash in the mail? I am absolutely willing to negotiate. Name the price of your vote.

Cel- I'll buy you another one of those awesome outfits you wore on New Years.

As much as I would like to accept (oh, for a visit or photo!), I'm afraid I can't today because I do want to spread some of the representing vote power around and because I want to get more discussion and voting trails for tomorrow.

For the rep vote, I don't think I will go with Boro. I don't want the rest of the day to become a Boro vs Phantom match. So I'd like to go with one of the quieter (so it seems at this point) and more difficult to read members of the group.

++ Foley for rep

More in a bit. I'm sure the talk has been continuing while I was typing...

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by the phantom

It goes back to that tantrum I threw at the beginning- the fact that we orcs are the bad guys, and I'm sick of this wishy-washy nonsense about trying to paint ourselves as the good guys. Let's be bad and enjoy it, I say! And Cel came right in displaying that attitude, and it made me smile. So yeah, no other reason than that.

Haha! Or rather, mwhahaha. None of this "good" nonsense. That sounds like elf talk.

[the phantom]

Ah, well, you seem to have given part of my answer for me, Shasta. Since I did in fact promise protection to them, I do feel honor bound to give it this day. But the biggest reason for my defense is simply the number of people who thought it very telling. I mean, it's the sort of thing that logically is easy to wave off given the reasoning I have provided, and yet people have remained firm even after I've pointed out these things I never imagined I'd have to bother with.

Really, in a typical village I'd expect there to be far more people than me saying, "Bah, it's Day 1. It's a blind shot anyway, so why not go unconventional just this once?" Given past games and behaviors I would have expected a village to have a mix of reactions from "That's annoying!" to "What the heck?" to "Oh well, just being silly". I've been doing this long enough that I can see reactions come ahead of time quite often, and I can tell you the reactions to Sally and Lottie have surprised me, and makes me suspect something or other is off.

[the phantom]

Got to run off now. I'd better go ahead and vote.

++Celuien for rep

Because she acts like an orc, and I'd like to see her active in the second part of the day.

[wilwarin538]

Votes

Sally -> Phantom
Lottie -> Phantom (2)
Rune -> Lommy
Greenie -> Nerwen
Nogrod -> Izzy
Mira -> Phantom (3)
Boro -> Wilwa
Lommy -> Greenie
Eonwe -> Greenie (2)
Inzil -> Boro
Shasta -> Izzy (2)
Legate -> Nerwen (2)
Celuien -> Foley
Phantom -> Celuien

So our reps so far: Phantom3, Greenie2, Izzy2 and Nerwen2.

I definetely won't be voting for anyone who doesn't already have a vote (I don't want to have too many people with just one vote, and then end up with a lack of representatives). I'm currently leaning towards Boro or Lommy, but I'll wait a tad longer.

And though Phantom's vote is a tad odd, I don't totally object, I like the idea of having some quieter reps.

[Nerwen]

Hola! I'd apologise for not being around, but that would be so un-orclike.

Well, then–

++Lommy for rep

–thoughts to follow.

[wilwarin538]

Actually, I'm just going to vote now

++Lommy for Representative

Because I agreed with her today, and she's a very logical person, so I trust her to make a good choice.

x'ed with Nerwen, ok than, I just accidently went against my own plan oh well, now Puddingtom isn't the only one with 3 votes

[Isabellkya]

I think it more prudent than previously, for all to make their thoughts known on players. That way the Rep's have things to read. Of course this is on the hope that they don't simply decide amongst themselves, but take into account what the Non-Rep's think.

I hadn't thought about that. In what Boro discusses in #65. We don't want a Rep who will cower and give-in to the other Rep(s). Representative dynamic is something to think about as well.

The "you give me your vote, I won't lynch-vote you" could always be a tactic to hide Elves voting for Elves for Representative. Since I think this style of voting has a slightly higher information rate. Are Elves going to be bold and attempt to elect their mates into power - which I think is a larger connection than the more traditional distance voting. how else would you setup up a scenario in which you could explain away voting for your mate, when/if the time comes that you are called out for it?

You know better than this, Boro. To vote for me at that stage was frankly quite impressive in some ways. On one hand, it displays a "Might as well" attitude, which shows nerve as well as an understanding of where we are on this first day. And also, it fed in nicely to the underlying motive which was simply to create discussion and get the ball rolling.

Sally voted for you in her first post of the game, second over all. Loslote's was the 17th of the Day. Neither had even given the Day a chance to get rolling before tossing their vote away. Loslote even later asks Nerwen how she could distrust you, given the only banter posts. How could one trust only on banter posts?

Okay. About post #85 is when I started skimming because I noticed 38 minutes left.

I support adding Mira to the/a lynch pool.

No more people should vote for phantom.. three votes. Good grief.


X'd with Nerwen and Wilwa