The Hobbit in July 2007?

[Aaron]

Wait, is Christopher Tolkien still alive? I heard he was dead.
How about Spike Lee as a director? Oh, would that be amusing.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

If not Spike Lee, what about
Sylvester Stallone? (See him
punch out all the Giant Spiders to save the dwarves).

[Kuruharan]

Actually, I find Stallone to be surprisingly articulate when he is speaking as himself.

Except now I'm having horrible visions of The Hobbit starting off with Bilbo running up the stairs of the Mathomhouse in Michel Delving with the Rocky theme music playing in the background.

[narfforc]

I find him very articulate after I drink ten pints of Orkbrew and watch three Arnie films.

[Kuruharan]

I said "surprisingly" articulate. Not "very."

There can be a profound difference between the two.

[Mister Underhill]

The Jackson/New Line rift is growing wider and wider: Jackson Banned From Hobbit

[Child of the 7th Age]

Thanks Mr Underhill for that sorry link. It seems that this quarrel is pulling in other actors from the cast. There was one additional quote from New Line honcho Shaye implying this in another article:

Shaye said that many of the Rings trilogy actors "suddenly, because, I'm guessing, of Peter's complaint," have declined to participate in celebrating New Line's 40th anniversary. "I'm incredibly offended," he said.

PJ responded in Variety by saying it was "regrettable" Mr Shaye had made the issue personal and added this comment:

Jackson also disputed suggestions by Shaye that Rings cast members had declined to take part in New Line's 40th anniversary. "In light of these circumstances, I didn't think it was appropriate for me to be involved in [an anniversary video]," Jackson said. "I have never discussed this video with any of the cast of the LOTR. The issues that Bob Shaye has with the cast pre-date this lawsuit by many years."

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Regardless of whether Shaye's criticism of Jackson is justified, his comments are downright idiotic. He has thrust the dagger into his own heart; now, with the latest comments from Wingnut, PJ has twisted it for him.

We now know for sure that PJ will not be making The Hobbit for New Line Cinema. Probably, this means that New Line is forfeiting their right to make the movie. Well, not forfeiting, but since their films rights expire in a year, since they can't make the film without MGM, and since MGM won't let them make it without PJ, New Line's effectively out of the discussion.

Which means that PJ almost certainly will be making The Hobbit, a little further in the future, though certainly not for New Line.

[The Might]

Guess it's there loss, I'm sure the movie would have been a guarranteed success considering the profit made by the trilogy
I just hope that whoever makes it, makes it good.

I wonder if some of the previous films actors would be willing to play again...I liked Ian Holm as Bilbo

Originally Posted by Elladan and Elrohir

Regardless of whether Shaye's criticism of Jackson is justified, his comments are downright idiotic. He has thrust the dagger into his own heart; now, with the latest comments from Wingnut, PJ has twisted it for him.

We now know for sure that PJ will not be making The Hobbit for New Line Cinema. Probably, this means that New Line is forfeiting their right to make the movie. Well, not forfeiting, but since their films rights expire in a year, since they can't make the film without MGM, and since MGM won't let them make it without PJ, New Line's effectively out of the discussion.

Which means that PJ almost certainly will be making The Hobbit, a little further in the future, though certainly not for New Line.

I really hope this is how it plays out, since New Line's being so ridiculous. I could care about the actual company as long as Peter Jackson, & most importantly, the original actors & the WETA stuff, are doing the film
BB
Teleri

[Lathriel]

I just hope they'll make the movie before Ian McKellen gets too old.
Grrrrr, these politics are so annoying, so without any further ado "Get on with it!!" (Monty Python and the Holy Grail)

[Child of the 7th Age]

Sam Raimi now reports that he is considering directing The Hobbit. Here.

[Lalwendë]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

Sam Raimi now reports that he is considering directing The Hobbit. Here.

Don't get too excited, I've read that he's looking at doing The Phantom next and that would happen over 2007-08.

[Oddwen]

Originally Posted by Lal-bad-mental-picture-wendë

he's looking at doing The Phantom next

...
...
...
...what?

;P

I'd be very interested to see someone else's version of the Hobbit, if it comes to that. The more I look back at PJ's version, the less and less I like it.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Don't get too excited, I've read that he's looking at doing The Phantom next and that would happen over 2007-08

Excited? Nah.....

After waiting endless years for someone to do a film adaptation and then living through the flawed attempt of Bakshi and the even worse Rankin Bass, I am probably more forgiving of PJ than others might be. PJ's films were a long way from perfect but, in my mind, they were also a considerable distance from "bad", despite the pain of seeing Frodo and Faramir mangled. I found them visually stunning in parts and certain characters like Bilbo and Gandalf came close to how I've always envisioned them.

Overall, however, I would say that I am more disappointed than excited regarding The Hobbit. Whoever manages to pull the movie off (if anyone does), it looks as if we'll be waiting a long time for this to happen. My gut feeling right now is that, if what the papers are reporting is correct, New Line will not get its act together and that the rights will eventually revert back to Zaentz/MGM. At that point it's likely to go to PJ, but who knows for sure?

So many of these decisions and arguments seem to be tied up with money. Zaentz, like PJ, was suing New Line because he said they reneged on their contract with him and that they owed him another 20 million. So he would probably love to see the film rights come slipping back out of New Line's grip.

Raimi just doesn't excite me. I guess he'd be "competent" but that's about all. I don't think he'd have any more feel for "faerie" than PJ had. The advantage of having PJ do the film is that we would likely get Ian McKellen, WETA, and hopefully the same artistic crew of Lee and Howe. However, the Hobbit we get would not be the book, which is essentially a children's story but one that is richly layered with meaning by the time we reach the ending scenes. Instead, we'd get an adult prelude, possibly two, to the Lord of the Rings movie.

I know a lot of people prefer an "adult" Hobbit, but I would honestly love to see the original children's tale that Tolkien crafted. Otherwise, so much of the charm of the story will be lost. I doubt anyone is going to make that children's tale -- whether PJ or anyone else. So I'll just sit back and wait and see what happens. And, yes, whoever makes it, and whatever angle they take, I will likely go see it. So I am hoping that something comes through eventually.

[Lalwendë]

Child, I wouldn't be excited by a Raimi directed film either. I found the Spider-Man films to be Curate's Eggs - good in parts, bad in others. Now, I thought they were mostly good, but the bad parts were very cheesy - especially in the first one which had that whole useless portrayal of the Green Goblin and that big excuse of showing Kirsten Dunst in a wet t-shirt. Tobey Maguire was great though, a superhero of the post-Donnie Darko-era. If that makes sense.

What I'd love to see is an animated version of The Hobbit. Wait, don't run away...I mean one based on Tolkien's own artwork like that trailer of an animated short of Mr Bliss that you can find on YouTube : Mr Bliss.

[Thenamir]

I like that idea, Lal, but I'd take it a step further. Consider what might be possible if you were able to render photo-realistic digital landscapes based heavily on Tolkien’s artwork. With the great strides constantly being made in digital animation and rendering, it might be possible to actually create an entire digital Middle-Earth in glorious 3-D, and populate it either with real actors blue-screened in, or digital characters in the Tolkien-art style a la Andy Serkis’ Gollum. Hire some professional voice talent, and then you’d have it! I’d get behind that in a heartbeat.

[Mister Underhill]

There are a lot of "ifs" in this article, but for better or worse Raimi has finally gone on record as wanting to do The Hobbit:

http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20035161,00.html

[Sauron the White]

New Lines rights expire within 18 months. There is no way they can make and release a first class blockbuster film heavy in CG and special effects in that time. The clock has ticked down and their rights are virtually dead at this point. The only real options they have are
1) rush a quickie HOBBIT into production on the same level as a made-for-tv movie and get it out next summer
2) make a deal with MGM to sell the interest they still have in the project
3) make nice-nice with Peter Jackson, pay him what he thinks they owe him, and get an extension from Zaentz to allow them to make a film on the same quality level as the LOTR films.

New Line has completely wasted the last six months in this sillyness with Shaye and Jackson. Shaye is 67 years old, has not had a good production record on films since LOTR, and is coming off a financial loser he directed in MIMSY. At some point you have to wonder if his superiors think he is worth it while letting Jackson and the franchise go.

This is a business where the mantra is indeed "what have you done for me lately".
And lately Bob Shaye has been a liability to New Line and its owners.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

New Lines rights expire within 18 months. There is no way they can make and release a first class blockbuster film heavy in CG and special effects in that time.

It depends upon the precise terms of the option agreement. New Line might be able to secure the option simply by commencing production within 18 months.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Child of the 7th Age

I know a lot of people prefer an "adult" Hobbit, but I would honestly love to see the original children's tale that Tolkien crafted. Otherwise, so much of the charm of the story will be lost. I doubt anyone is going to make that children's tale -- whether PJ or anyone else. So I'll just sit back and wait and see what happens. And, yes, whoever makes it, and whatever angle they take, I will likely go see it. So I am hoping that something comes through eventually.

I'd agree with everything that Child said in the post that I drew this from. I would love to see a childish Hobbit made... with all the humor and light heartedness that Tolkien put in it left in tact.

--

From what few posts I've read on this last page, am I correct to think that people here don't think that it's coming out this summer?

-- Folwren

[Sauron the White]

Yes, you are correct in theory. However, based on discussions on other boards where people working inside the film industry have posted, it is my belief that the contract between Zaentz and New Line calls for substantial progress to have been made before that date (in production) for them to be able to do the film. Having a script in the works or naming a director or even scheduling a starting filming date would not be enough.

I realize that until one actually reads the contract and is aware of the actual terms all this is speculation. But I am basing this on six months of following this whole issue on a daily basis and the opinions of insiders who are in a position to know.

This whole thing reminds me of the scene in WIZARD OF OZ where the Wicked Witch turns over that gorgeous hourglass and Dorothy watches her time run out. Thats a great deal like New Line and their HOBBIT rights today. Each day that goes by means a little less chance that they will ever make this film.

Right now, they have nothing. No script. No actors under contract. No director. No special effects house. No crew. No shooting schedule. Nothing. THE HOBBIT is not like shooting a movie of the week where you can rope off a New York or LA street at dawn and shoot what is there with a small crew and a handful of actors. I imagine it will take a good six to nine months of pre-production work just to get everything in place to begin filming. And that is a very liberal estimate. It could take twice that.

With all the location shots and special work necessary the actual shoot could take another six months. Then there is a lengthy post production process in any film that is heavy with special effects and CG work. Adding all that up takes us beyond the expiration date of the New Line HOBBIT rights.

Zaentz has already said that Peter Jackson will make THE HOBBIT. He has positioned himself to make a deal with another studio and Jackson as soon as he is legally able to. Zaentz wants to maximize his profit participation and the way to do that is with the same man you turned the first three films into $4billion dollars US.

Look at it this way. I do not know what Zaentz's profit participation number is but lets say its 5% of gross. If New Line rushes something into production with a lesser director and the public does not take to it like they did the LOTR films, the gross could be way down compared to the LOTR films. Instead of looking at 5% of a billion dollar film, Zaentz gets a check for 5% off a $350 million dollar film. Thats a huge difference.

If he makes a new deal two things happen for Zaentz. He can negotiate a better profit participation deal than he now is getting and he can put himself in a position where he gets Jackson at the helm to insure his take. Its a win-win situation for both Zaentz and Jackson. Shaye and New Line can only lose.

[ElentariGreenleaf]

Just read a few of the articles you guys have posted. My opinion of PJ just dropped so much. He sued them??? What? How could he?

Anyhoo, I think if the Hobbit does ever come out, that I'll probably go see it, but I won't exactly be excited about it. They better the Ian Mckellen to play gandalf, and various other characters that were in LotR otherwise I just think it'll be weird, lol. Although, Ian Holmes may not be up to playing Bilbo in that time of his life ^^; So changing Bilbo's actor I can understand.


I still think they may just drop it. Even though it has an awesome plot that'd be great for a single film.

[Sauron the White]

My opinion of PJ just dropped so much. He sued them??? What? How could he?

ElantariGreenleaf ... let us say that you and I entered into a legally binding contract to do some bit of business together. It ended up being wildly successful, far more than we ever had a right to expect, and money rolled in like water over Niagra. We both ended up rich. I kept the books and financial accountings while you were the talent end of the partnership. You were provided with evidence that I had not paid you all that the contract said you were entitled to. In fact, the amount in question was in the millions of dollars.

The contract said that if a dispute arose about distribution of revenues, either party was entitled to an independent examination of the books. But when you asked me to provide those books to you - I refused claiming that I was insulted that you did not trust me. Besides, you already are rich from the deal and I paid you enough.

This is what we have in the case of Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema. Everyone who enters into such an agreement is entitled to have all the terms of the contract enforced fairly.

[Folwren]

Youch. That's nuts. It's a pitty, but, really, don't blame PJ too much for sueing for millions of dollars.

I think instead of bothering my head about when the Hobbit might come out, I'll ignore this thread and wait until it does come out. I'm sure I'll hear about it sometime while it's still in theaters...maybe...

Thanks, StW, for your answer.

-- Folwren

[ElentariGreenleaf]

Ah, I see. I dont think I quite understood why he was sewing. *opinion of PJ goes right back up* PJ rules! Yeah! PJ for Hobbit director!

Thanks for explaining Sauron

[Sauron the White]

you are both very welcome.

[narfforc]

Hi ElentariGreenleaf, I think you are right about Ian Holm, however wouldn't it be nice to see him as The Old Took, then he could have been Bilbo, Frodo and Gerontius.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Originally Posted by narfforc

Hi ElentariGreenleaf, I think you are right about Ian Holm, however wouldn't it be nice to see him as The Old Took, then he could have been Bilbo, Frodo and Gerontius.

A nice idea: but sadly the Old Took is dead by the time Bilbo's adventure begins.

I suppose he could play Holman Greenhand, Bilbo's gardener.

[narfforc]

I know that William, Gil-galad had died before the War of the Ring but he still appeared in the movies, I was suggesting that Ian Holm played The Old Took as part of Bilbo's storyline in a cameo appearence, maybe I should have made myself clearer.

[davem]

http://www.forbes.com/forbeslife/hea...out604370.html

Films that delivered the most "smoking impressions" included The Perfect Storm, Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring -- yes, the ritual smoking in the J.R.R. Tolkien movie counted -- Wild Wild West and Saving Private Ryan.

Anti-tobacco activists want Hollywood to reduce smoking in movies and adjust the ratings system to give R-ratings to movies with smoking.

However, there's always the option of starting with

'Bilbo Baggins was standing at his door after breakfast eating an enormous long stick of celery that reached nearly down to his woolly toes (neatly brushed)"

& ending

'Thank Goodness!' said Bilbo, laughing, & handed him the tofu.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Or Ian McKellan's idea of his chewing gum instead of
smoking a pipe to show he kicked the tobaccy habit.

[narfforc]

Or maybe they could show him with a patch on his forehead from the company called The Wizard Weed Walloper.


Smoking is bad for your Elf, but not your Dwarf, Hobbit, Man or Wizard.

Smoking causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease and Yellow Fingers.

[Sauron the White]

As someone who loathes smoking in any form I find this latest effort to be a bit silly. As long as films depict people or characters with real human behaviors then smoking will be something on the table. I hardly think Gandalf and his pipe encouraged anyone to take up the noxious habit.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think that we can all agree that it is silly if there was no smoking in the LotR films as it is a thing you notice in the books and which is done and talked about several times in the books.

As Davem says it would be silly if Saruman was to say "Youre love for the Halflings taters has clearly slowed your mind"

But I think there is a fair point in chritisiesing Hollywood to use smoking to an extreme, a lot of times there is absolutely no idea in the people smoking. . .It does not even do anything to their charachter. Of course there should be room for people making movies like "coffee and cigarets" and people smoking in "reservoir dogs", but often one is left with the impression that the only reason the person is smoking is because some industry pays for it.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Or the actor himself, like Jack Lemmon- who often couldn't make it through a take without lighting up.

[Sauron the White]

Latest in the rumor mill about the HOBBIT film is that New Line is courting Peter Weir from down under. His latest was MASTER & COMMANDER. I think his best was WITNESS or GALOPOLLI which are both outstanding films. A much better choice than Raimi.

[Sir Kohran]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

Latest in the rumor mill about the HOBBIT film is that New Line is courting Peter Weir from down under. His latest was MASTER & COMMANDER. I think his best was WITNESS or GALOPOLLI which are both outstanding films. A much better choice than Raimi.

I also thought M&C and particularly Gallipoli were great movies, but I'm not sure he could do fantasy - he does political/historical films mostly, it seems. However this down to earth tone may actually suit TH better - the story itself is not particularly magical. And he's certainly better than Raimi. All the same, I still want Peter Jackson back...

[Sauron the White]

100% in agreement Jackson all the way.

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

But he'll never do it. Peter Jackson is a broken man, look at him, he looks ill, like he never eats or sleeps. He needs serious medical attention and no, I'm not joking. So, for the sake of his health I don't think he should do this movie, he's suffered enough and I just hope that he can get over his drug problem soon
But at the same time I don't want Raimi directing it either, hmm, what about Spielberg?