The Silmarillion Survivor

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

The Kingship is also a vital issue. Think what the scheming uncle may do to his nephews once the throne is his! I implore Feanorians back the guile, craft and staying power of Curufin. Remember, he has an heir; Maedhros doesn't...

If by "heir" you mean "son or daughter" then you or correct. If you mean "legitimate successor", then Maedhros has no lack, and with these being Elves, there is no need for lifespan to be a concern. They are, in order* (counting only Elves or those who choose Elvenkind...):

Maglor, Celegorm, Curufin, Celebrimbor, Caranthir, Amrod, Amras, Fingolfin, Fingon, Turgon, Idril, Earendil, Elrond, Elladan/Elrohir, Aredhel, Maeglin, Finarfin, Finrod, Aegnor, Angrod, Orodreth, Gil-Galad, Finduilas, Galadriel, Celebrian.

As you can see, no lack of heirs.

*According to ONE possible geneaology

[Gothmog]

the Phantom:

As long as Melkor's got the jewels, the oath is great because it will ensure that the Sons of Feanor will oppose Melkor to the death, and if the eldest of the sons is king then everyone will follow in unity.

Yes, but I'm afraid it will also ensure that the sons of Feanor oppose Melkor to the death of 99% of the other elves. But true is that if the eldest son is chosen, there'll be less complaining. So why choose Curufin? No, go for Fingolfin or Maedhros. It's your choice, I'll stick with Fingolfin.

I really do hope that, as some people seem so confident about, the sons of Feanor will get an other kind of life without the kinslaying. I don't think that will save Curufin though... I'm afraid he's lost and has to go before he makes something stupid.

(Yikes! I got into a sig! Never thought that day would come Thanks Anguirel...I think...)

[Alcarillo]

I'm a ghost prince!

Anyways, I don't think we should evict either Osse or the Doom of Mandos. Why? Because they provide a lot of angst and drama. Who wants to watch an episode of Survivor without angst and drama? Certainly not me.
++Elbereth

The story has moved on to Beleriand and out of Aman. And with Manwe gone, all she does is sit up there on Taniquetil, just watching Middle-earth. She's already made the stars, so now I just don't see what she's good for anymore.

[the phantom]

If I'm not mistaken, the current count is-

Give the Kingship to...

• Maedhros- 6
• Fingolfin- 4
• Curufin- 2
• Fingon- 1

Get rid of...

• Osse- 4
• Doom of Mandos- 3
• Curufin- 3
• Elbereth- 1
• Finarfin- 1
• Fingolfin- 1

That's not too bad.

As I stated here, Maedhros is without a doubt the best choice for King of the Noldor.

As far as who to vote out, I'd really like to see the Doom of Mandos kicked out, but Osse is better than most of the other choices.

Tomorrow and the next day, be looking for an opportunity to get rid of Aredhel before Maeglin is born.

Why Aredhel and not Eol, you ask?

Because, we need Eol to stay alive long enough to make the sword Anglachel, which will be instrumental in not only killing Glaurung, but is also mentioned in some of Tolkien's writings as being the sword that will, in the Last Battle, deal Melkor his final death blow.

Now, I can't remember right off hand when Anglachel was forged, so if anyone finds evidence that it has already been made then please feel free to vote off Eol instead of Aredhel. But we need to get rid of one of them before Maeglin is born if we want to save Gondolin.

[Anguirel]

Voting closed.

The rightful High King of the Noldor, Maedhros, has been crowned. He at once magnanimously forgives the rebellions of his uncle, cousins and brother.

Meanwhile, the sea-Maia Osse has been successfully divorced by his wife in a high-profile case, and is dispatched to the Void!

Results up soon.

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY ONE (M-e)

Olwe looked yearningly back across the sea. Today it seemed strangely calm. Was a storm about to strike?

Suddenly a veritable whirlpool came into being; and its centre was the Maia Osse. Behind him were some fifty barracuda in legal wigs. Uinen could be noticed to one side, smugly putting on her make-up.

At last Osse cried out in despair, "Alright! Alright! I'll pay the damages. She can have the house, and I'll, *sniff*, go and join Manwe in the void."

The barracuda retreated and a squadron of tough police dogfish led Osse off. Uinen smiled. It was clear that she had become another emancipated woman...

~~~

RESULTS OF DAY ONE (M-e)

Maedhros, meanwhile, was duly enthroned and crowned High King of the Noldor. He summoned his uncle, two cousins and brother to appear before him. Fingolfin shuddered. What could this violent Son of Feanor be thinking of doing to him? After all, he had planned to lock up Maedhros and Curufin in a tower and then...ah...well, anyway...

Maedhros took him by surprise. The High King shook his cousins' hands warmly, bowed to his uncle, and embraced and kissed his brother.

"Thou art all forgiven, friends, and I shall bestow lands and kingships upon you..."

Later that day came a hooded messenger from Morgoth to parley for the return of a Silmaril. Maedhros consented, but persuaded by Curufin plotted an ambush. Morgoth plotted a more extreme one. The guard of Maedhros were destroyed, and he was captured! In the interim, poor Maglor had the crown foisted upon him.

Yet Fingon, moved as ever by love and respect for his cousin, rescued him with the help of Celegorm and Huan the wonder-hound (since Eagles seemed to be mysteriously absent, other talking animals had to be employed...) And the High King returned to his people.

In that hour did the Sun and Moon rise, bright and beautiful beyond words.

An emissary came from Thingol, and Finrod and Artanis answered it. There the lands allotted to the Noldor were decided, though Maedhros and the princes had taken them already, and Artanis loved Celeborn and became Galadriel, leaving her people.

Finrod found Nargothrond and Turgon Gondolin. Both were built in a day.

Finally, out of the east came there news of approaching unsightly folk; the Dwarves, and later, the Atani, Men...

It's Day Two in Middle-earth.

The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Fingolfin
Finarfin
Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Caranthir
Curufin
Amras
Fingon
Turgon
Idril
Aredhel
Finrod
Orodreth
Aegnor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Thingol
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung
Beleg
Daeron
Saeros
Eol

MAIA/ELF

Luthien

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Huan
Tilion (with Moon)
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Azaghal of Belegost
Telchar of Nogrod
Mim the Petty-dwarf
Khim
Ibun

MEN

Balan/Beor
Baran
Bereg
Marach
Amlach
Haldad
Haleth
Haldar

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Ungoliant
Sauron
Gothmog

The fourth challenge: EDUCATION. Teach the Men and Dwarves that they should be nice Elf-friends, and not ally with nasty Morgoth.

[WaynetheGoblin]

++gothmog destroy evil.

[Lord Melkor]

++Thingol

Remove Thingol, the snobby, human-hating, isolationist ruler of Doriath. Thingol's contempt for humanity reflects very poorly upon the elven race as a whole, especially with Thingol being the most powerful king in Beleriand. Removing him so he can make way for a more human-friendly ruler who will allow them inside Dorath will do much to improve Human-Elven relationships. I don't really know who should succeed him, but considering the fact that there are bits of lemon peel floating down the Sirion who would make a better king of Doriath it really isn't much of a concern I feel.

[Lalaith]

I was all set to vote off Yavanna. Soppy tree-hugger who probably wears a lot of cheese-cloth and tie-dye, and clearly sees men and dwarves as a threat to her ickle fuwwy animals.
But then I saw that AngMod had removed her from the lists....so...I've decided to agree with Lord Melkor, particularly as I'm ethically opposed to isolationism.
++Thingol


On the subject of which, I'll be gunning for horrible Turgon sooner rather than later. And as for getting rid of Aredhel - *tsk*, phantom, where are your production values? This is about making an exciting reality tv series, not "lets give the Noldor a really easy life."

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by Anguirel

The fourth challenge: EDUCATION. Teach the Men and Dwarves that they should be nice Elf-friends, and not ally with nasty Morgoth.

Yes, Thingol could be fairly xenophobic. But he was not the worst. Who was it who said:

If the Men of Hithlum are so wild and fell, of what sort are the women of that land? Do they run like deer clad only in their hair?

Perhaps the worst insult that an Elf could throw at a Man. Ladies and gentleman, I give you the most xenophobic Elf of all time:

++ SAEROS

All Elves can be pretty snooty and superior at times. But surely he must be the most snooty and pompous of them all. He exemplifies all that I dislike in Elvenkind. Make an example of him, and perhaps his fellows will show a little more understanding. Indeed, without his counselling, it is quite possible that Thingol will look more favourably on those of other races. Certainly, with Saeros out of the way, Turin is going to get (and cause) a lot less grief when he comes along.

[Alcarillo]

If we get rid of Turgon we make it possible for Beren to only need mom's permission for Luthien's hand in marriage, probably without the need for a Silmaril. No Silmaril in Doriath = No kinslaying. And because Thingol is already gone, we won't get too see him get chopped up by minimum-wage dwarves. We lose a lot of the drama if we get rid of Thingol. And did not Melian's Girdle fail when Thingol died? This brings up an oppurtunity for orcs to roam through Doriath. Luthien won't be allowed outside! And Beren will never find her, and that means no Elwing, no Kings of Numenor!

Thingol is clearly an important part of the story. Take him away, and the other two kinslayings won't happen, Luthien won't meet Beren, and no Kings of Numenor will ever exist, whose dramatic woe-filled lives we will never read about here in the Seventh Age. Keep Thingol, for he is the creator of woe and misfortune!

[Glirdan]

Both arguments from Alca and SpM are good, but I'm going to have to side with SpM on this one. At least Thingol allowed Beren to marry Luthien. And who was the one that let Turin stay in Doriath and demanded that his mother and sister go live there as well? Thingol. Saeros is a no good elf who deserved the death he got. (well, will get ) I say get rid of Saeros.

++Saeros

[Lord Melkor]

Tsssk, tsssk. You silly people seem to have forgotten one thing: If Thingol is *cough* 'removed from the game' so to speak who will succeed him? That's right, Luthien! And we all know Luthy likes to get down n dirty with Mortal Men . I'm sure removing Thingol and replacing him Luthien will dramatically improve Elven-Human relationships. Sure, Saeros is an inflated, xenophobic windbag, but he's ultimately a small fish. Remove the inept Thingol and watch the number of Human-Elven relationships soar!

[Alcarillo]

Keeping the education challenge in mind, I shall vote off Bereg.

++Bereg

He spreads dissent among men wherever he goes, telling rumors that the Gods in the West are merely elvish lies. Those who listened to him passed back over the mountains and into the East. Who knows how many possible Elf-friends were lost at that moment?

Question to Ang: Is it possible for multiple evictions? I suggest that we get rid of Bereg, Saeros, and any others who can create hatred between Men and Eldar.

Edit: And will Silmarillion Survivor include the Akallabeth?

[Anguirel]

Ties result in mass evictions, yes...

Wayne, I'm not going to regard that as a valid reason. Come on, old chap, you can do better than that. It's two words long!

VOTES

Thingol-2
Saeros-2
Bereg-1

As for my own vote, relating particularly to the phantom's campaign against Aredhel, I am in agreement with Lalaith-

Originally Posted by Lalaith

And as for getting rid of Aredhel - *tsk*, phantom, where are your production values? This is about making an exciting reality tv series, not "lets give the Noldor a really easy life."

Exactly. Things have been too simple for the Noldor (admittedly thanks to radical but wise decisions) up till now. To stop the birth of Maeglin would be a barren trade of characterisation for hunky-doriness. It would also destroy any hope of redememption for my favourite character, Lomion, the Child of Twilight, the bearer of Anguirel, friend of Salgant...oh, how I wish Tolkien had written more on him...

I sympathise somehat with Thingol, and if he is voted off now Beren and Luthien will be a radically different story, either more bland or more dark, I'm not quite sure which. In any case, I propose:

++TURGON. He's performed his main service by founding Gondolin, and his highhanded behaviour to Hurin and Huor (yes, you can stay here and die, no, I'm not going to let you into my city Hurin, you can yell "Remember the Fen of Serech" as hard as you can, I ain't backin' down) will eventually come to represent the essence of failure of Man/Elf relations-incomprehension, hauteur, lack of empathy.

Maeglin (born soon) will make a fine successor to him, and will never betray a city he is King of...in the interim Idril can be another fine example of feminine government.

EDIT: Alca, fraid not. This game stops with the end of the Quenta Silmarillion and the drowning of Beleriand.

[Lord Melkor]

Ah, one last point: Remember that we must also take Dwarven relationships with the Elves into this and then Thingol's removal becomes even more necessary. No Thingul means no insulted Dwarves, no insulted Dwarves means no war between Elves and Dwarves and no war means happy relations.

[Lalaith]

An excellent proposal, my dear Anguirel. I stand in your debt: I had not expected the pleasure of an assault on Turgon so early in our little adventure.
--THINGOL

++TURGON My least favourite elf. Ever.

[arcticstorm]

Now Ang, according to you Maeglin would not betray the city he is king over, while this is true, if he becomes king over the city, he will marry Idril. thereby preventing the birth of Earendil and the intervention of the Valar. Turgon the epitome of bad man/elf relationships? Surely you jest. He will be giving his daughter in marriage to a man. I tend to agree the Saeros or Bereg are the two biggest threats to this challenge. and if we can rid ouselves of both of them so be it. But I will attempt to save both Turgon and Thingol. As they are both true lovers of mankind later on. That being my first priority, I will evict Saeros first.

++Saeros

[Gothmog]

So many wise men and women have spoken before me, so because of a lack of time I'll just vote and lean on the others arguments.

++Saeros

I've always disliked him, and to save Elwe Singollo and Turgon the Wise is of course important...

[Alcarillo]

The game would be alot more interesting if Idril sat for a time upon Gondolin's throne. Come on, don't you want to see a woman rule for once? And then when Maeglin weasels his way into marriage with her, we can be sure to see a love affair between Idril and Tuor.

--Bereg
++Turgon

[the phantom]

If we are trying to help Men, I'm not sure we should get rid of Turgon.

He had a warm relationship with Hurin and Huor, and mercifully allowed them to return to their people. Had he not done this, the all-important Turin and Tuor would never have been born. That would really throw a wrench into the world. We need Turin and Tuor.

Say what you want about Turgon, but he was friendly to the race of Man. He even allowed a man to marry his only daughter without complaining, which is much more than you can say for Thingol, who tried to get Beren killed!

There is no way you should vote off Turgon before Elwe (Thingol).

I'm willing to accept Saeros as a compromise, but if you don't vote for Saeros certainly don't give Turgon the boot before Thingol.

[Lord Melkor]

Tsssk, and the Dwarves get ignored as always. Very well, but don't complain when our vertically-challenged friends start embedding their axes in pointy-eared heads because some fool Elven King said something uncouth about some Dwarf's mother.

[arcticstorm]

We are not ignoring the dwarves, as long as Eol is still with us, we will have a mediator between the elves and dwarves. And with the kinslaying prevented, he has nothing against the noldor. so we have our mediator.

[The Saucepan Man]

And remember that Saeros was a counsellor of Thingol. Given Saeros' attitude towards Men, it is hardly likely that his attitude towards Dwarves will be any better. Remove Saeros and you remove a poisonous xenophobic influence from Thingol's ear.

[Celuien]

Idril on the throne of Gondolin would be a fascinating prospect, but I don't want to risk wiping Earendil out of existence. I don't think that Turgon is responsible for conflict between Elves, Men and Dwarves for reasons that have already been pointed out. And as I recall, Thingol's problems with the Dwarves only occured after he had the Silmaril, so I think we still have time to work on that problem.

The arguments presented against Saeros have been pretty convicing, so I'll agree with what's been said and vote

++SAEROS.

[Eonwe]

i am truely shocked. verily i say to you, you are of small mind if you think turgon is to be hated and branded with that dispicable title of "least favorite elf. Ever". i would first like to hear some sound evidence of blight on teh character of our great lord of gondonlin, the last bastion of strength and definance to morgoth, foe of the world.

as for his merrits, those are plain. established fairest city in middle-earth. ruled with a benevolent hand. showed mercy to hurin and huor. came (completley unexpected although completely needed) to the aid of maedhros. fell in honorable death defending his people. grandfathered teh savior of middle-earth, eariendil. thismuch is plain, and i don't think it warrents these grossly outrageous character assasin's blows.

as for who to send to morgoth, you were on the right track back there. i ask you, who was the only one to come to open war with the dwarves. who was it that allowed no men into his lands and fiefs. who dealt most highhandedly in all middle-earth? the answer to all three of these quetions is Thingol. the damage to dwarves is plain, his armies killed them. the damage to men comes through dealing coldly and inhospitably with teh father's of men. look at the great hieghts men assended too under the tutalige of nom. where else could they ahve trod with the grace and beauty that comes from elvin knowledge, if thingol had opened his lands to them? how might the armies of the noldor have been swelled if men were provided with safe domains to rest and recover from their dark past, instead of teh mean dwellings, constantly overrun with orcs, provided in stead?

as for Saeros, how is king of beleriand. i believe that would be thingol. and how are decisions made in a monarchy? i believe by teh king. thingol has proved a rash, proud ruler in his dealing with beren (insidentally, the fates of middle-earth were tied directly to this man, who thingol scourned and regected). Im sure that a freaking maia's voice of reason more than offset Saeros' "poisonous xenophobic influences", and thingol still managed to make bad decitions. there is were teh root lies! strike at the roots!

++Thingol must go.

[Anguirel]

Voting closed.

Thingol-2
Saeros-5
Turgon-3

Saeros is chosen to be cast forth!

Results up soon.

[Anguirel]

RESULTS OF DAY TWO (M-e)

Saeros is banished from Beleriand. He attempts to take ship to Valinor, but the liberated feminist Uinen senses a male chauvinistic pig and sends him directly to Mandos.

No one in Doriath cares particularly. Thingol has a lot of other counsellors. Counsellors are trained to tell the King what he likes to hear, and in this case, to an Elf they tell him that Men must be excluded. Melian makes a cryptic comment about exceptions being possible but nobody listens...

RESULTS OF THE CHALLENGE

Finrod, out hunting with Maedhros and Maglor, befriended the folk of Beor, and they dwelt near Hithlum.

However, the folk of Marach, following them, were deceived by spies of Morgoth, and Bereg of the House of Beor was persuaded by them. Only Amlach, who had happened to bump into a Morgothian doppelganger of himself one stressful morning, resisted the Dark Lord's lure...none of the Men who went east were seen again.

The Haladin were turned back by Thingol, and set upon by Orcs; and Haldad and Haldar were killed before Caranthir rescued Haleth and the remainder. They were granted lands in Brethil eventually...

As for the Dwarves, they made no alliance with the Elves, and none with Morgoth; yet they traded with two smiths among the Elves, Curufin and Eol.

Talking of Eol...Aredhel, on her spirited wanderings, was checked in Nan Elmoth, and so stopped by. Marriage resulted in Maeglin. But Aredhel gave him the name Lomion in secret.

Ha ha! Maeglin is born, and there's nothing any of you cowards can do about it!

Meanwhile, the power of Morgoth waxes greatly. It is said he prepares for a sortie; he has received more rebel Maia from the war in Valinor, and his creations grow ever more horrible...

The contestants:

Tribes

VALAR

Elbereth
Ulmo
Mandos, Doom of

NOLDOR

Fingolfin
Finarfin
Maedhros
Maglor
Celegorm
Celebrimbor
Caranthir
Curufin
Amras
Fingon
Turgon
Idril
Aredhel
Maeglin
Finrod
Orodreth
Aegnor

TELERI/SINDAR

Olwe
Thingol
Celeborn
Galadriel
Mablung
Beleg
Daeron
Eol

MAIA/ELF

Luthien

MAIA

Melian
Uinen
Huan
Tilion (with Moon)
Arien (with Sun)

DWARVES

Azaghal of Belegost
Telchar of Nogrod
Mim the Petty-dwarf
Khim
Ibun

MEN

Barahir
Bregolas
Hador
Galdor
Halmir
Haldir

FORCES OF EVIL

Morgoth
Ungoliant
Sauron
Gothmog
Eonwe
Curunir
Glaurung

Task the third: RESISTANCE. Try to stop the ravaging of the lands of Men.

[The 1,000 Reader]

++Sauron.

The fool can't do anything right whatsoever. Just the other day he tried to kill a group of elves by transforming into a large boulder.

That couldn't move on its own.

The elves were uphill.

To make a long story short, the moron rolled downhill and crushed his squad of orcs! If he can only kill his teammates, he has no purpose! Besides, he can't do much else.

[Lalaith]

*scans tribe lists*
Very interesting, Sir AngMod. You believe that Curunir turned towards the darkness so early?

[The Saucepan Man]

I notice that Eonwe, presumably lacking a firm hand from Manwe, has also turned to the dark side ...

[Lalaith]

So he is...

or rather so he has. Sorry.

[Anguirel]

Eonwe's treachery lends a perfect excuse to be rid of him. Morgoth's armies are massively strong, but at least without the ex-Herald the Eldar and Edain will have a hope...

++EONWE

[Lalaith]

if he becomes king over the city, he will marry Idril. thereby preventing the birth of Earendil and the intervention of the Valar.

Why really, Alcarillo. Are you saying the princess of Gondolin, the woman who fought Maeglin "like a tigress" on the battlements of the burning city, is just part and parcel of the inheritance, a passive flower ripe for the picking? That she has no free will or choice of her own?
Pshaw. Idril Celebrindal will fall in love with and marry Tuor no matter who is king.

[Anguirel]

Unless, of course, a certain Maeglin fan who's doing the write-ups finds any possible excuse to make her fall in love with Maeglin instead. In which case, well...who needs Earendil anyway?

[arcticstorm]

I would like to say that the most logical choice to prevent the raveging of the lands of men is to get rid of the one who is doing the raveging, in seems like the biggest raveger in the entire game is none other than the illustriius dragon Glaurung.
so for now I will vote for him, and may change it later.
++Glaurung
but we need to be careful, soon some exile Valar from the war in Valinor may join with Melkor, in that case we will need to watch otherwise the elves and men will be doomed.

[Lord Melkor]

Hmmm, an interesting challenge: To protect the lands of Men we need military power and lots of it, I'd say! Therefore it is imperative that we remove those Elven lords who'd prefer to sit in their marble halls and drink expensive wines while watching young elf ladies dance before them, while the poor Edain are being slaughtered in their mud hovels. Therefore I'd say we should remove either Turgon or Thingol, the two prime isolationists of Middle-Earth. This would also allow their daughters (either Idril or Luthien) to ascend to the throne, giving the male-dominated Elven society a much needed feminine touch. I'm sure these powerful, strongwilled and active ladies will waste no time in sending military forces to protect the Edain. Therefore I'd say:

++ Thingol

Though Turgon is fine with me as well.

[The Saucepan Man]

In this case, and contrary to my previous voting pattern, I would prefer to go straight for the organ grinder rather than bothering with his various monkeys.

There is one "person" with whom the ravaging buck ultimately stops, and that is Morgoth. We may try to take away his means of ravaging, but he will undoubtedly come up with alternative, possibly more deadly, means. If, however, we strike for the central command centre and succeed, all of his agents of ravagement will be thrown into disarray.

No doubt, in time, a new dark lord will emerge. Quite possibly another of the Valar will be tempted to evil and take command of Morgoth's forces. But that will take time, and buying the Men and Elves sufficient time to organise their resistance is vital here.

So no messing about from me. My vote goes straight to the heart of the enemy:

++ MORGOTH

Originally Posted by arcticstorm

... we need to be careful, soon some exile Valar from the war in Valinor may join with Melkor, in that case we will need to watch otherwise the elves and men will be doomed.

Quite so. The last thing that they need is two renegade Valar on their case. Taking out Morgoth substantially reduces the chances of that happening.

[Lalaith]

Some powerful arguments here. I need to consider.
I'm also rather intrigued as to how Ang is going to overcome the incest issue vis a vis his uncanonical plans for Maeglin and his first cousin...

[arcticstorm]

Sauce, you make a lot of sense, I have been trying to treat a symptom without tackeling the sickness.

--Glaurung ++Morgoth