* An unofficial New Silmarillion Outline *

[gandalf85]

A few questions:

1) I cannot find "6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie Draft" anywhere and the only topic related to "7 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Finwë and Míriel Semi-finished" is http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=4396 last updated in 2004. Is the latest text for this only on the private forum?

2) Why was the Darkening of Valinor split up into multiple main chapters (7-10) while other chapters have sub-chapters (i.e. 12: Of the Flight of the Noldor is made up of sub-chapters "Of the Speech of Fëanor upon Túna" and "Of the first Kin-slaying and the Doom of the Noldor")? It seems inconsistent.

3) Is "Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth" going to be placed between chapters 21 and 22 of the Quenta itself? I think it makes sense to embed the Great Tales into the Quenta itself, but the Athrabeth should be in a separate section isolated from the Quenta. On a tangent: The Athrabeth is one of my favorite writings by Tolkien, and I absolutely think it should be included.

4) "Óssanwë Kenta": I am not familiar with this. Where is it from?

I agree that it is not clear what to include in Volume II and how to organize it. I will give it some thought and reply soon.

[ArcusCalion]

1) We have not done a Draft for chapter six. Findegil has a Draft of his own but he is waiting to discuss some of the chapters I've done before he posts it. This chapter is discussed here http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php.

2) This was done at the express instruction of Tolkien himself in HoMe volume 10. He edited the numbering of all his subsequent chapters to reflect the change, so we have taken them up as separate chapters as well. I am not sure why they all have the Darkening of Valinor bit in the beginning of their title, but that was decided before I arrived.

3) It is placed there because it takes place then chronologically. A case could be made for its inclusion in volume 3 instead. It will definitely be included.

4) Óssanwë Kenta is an essay given in one of the issues of the Vinyar Tengwar which details the method of mind communication.

[Findegil]

Okay, I see that my categories are not good enough. Since anyway an update is needed I will re-do it here again

I have shortened the list to full chapters in volume 1. The sub-chapters are easily found in the chapter structure earlier in this thread and the status of the sub-chapters of one full chapter is normally the same. The following status classes are used:
Untouched: Chapter is foreseen in the structure, but nothing more is done about it.
First Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, not yet in a state ready for group discussion.
Priv. Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, ready for group discussion, but not yet posted in the Forum.
Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, and posted in the Forum. But up to now no discussion had started.
Work in progress: Discussed in the Forum but not yet deemed finished by the members OR once deemed finished but known to be in need of substantial revision.
Semi-finished: finished but with small points raised by new sources or new input that must be discussed.
Finished: Done and all members are still happy with the result.

TRANSLATION FROM THE ELVISH
volume 1: THE ELDER DAYS

Ainulindale Finished

Valaquenta Finished

Quenta Silmarillion
. 1 Of the Beginning of Time Work in progress
. 2 Of Valinor and the Two Trees Work in progress
. 3 Concerning Naugrim, Ents and Eagles Finished
. 4 Of the Coming of the Elves Work in progress
. 5 Of Thingol and Melian Work in progress
. 6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie Draft
. 7 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Finwë and Míriel Semi-finished
. 8 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor Semi-finished
. 9 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor Semi-finished
. 10 Of the Drakening of Valinor Semi-finished
. 11 Of the Thieves’ Quarrel Semi-finished
. 12 Of the Flight of the Noldor First Draft
. 13 Of the Sindar Finished
. 14 Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor Work in progress
. 15 Of Men Work in progress
. 16 Of the Siege of Angband Untouched
. 17 The Founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin Work in progress
. 18 Of Beleriand and it's Realms Work in progress
. 19 Of the Noldor in Beleriand Work in progress
. 20 Of Turgon and the Building of Gondolin Work in progress
. 21 Of Maeglin Draft
. 21 Of{ the Naugrim and }the Edain Work in progress

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth Finished
. Appendix: The Tale of Adanel Finished

. 22 Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin Finished

Narn Beren ion Barahir or Narn e•Dinúviel Finished
. The Lay of Leithian Finished
. 25 The Quest of the Silmaril 2 Finished
. 26 The Quest of the Silmaril 3: Finished
. 27 The Song of Lúthien in Mandos Finished

Narn e•mbar Hador Finished
. Narn e•’Rach Morgoth Finished
. 28 Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad Finished

. 31 Of the Ruin of Doriath Finished

. Narn en•Êl Finished

. 33 Of the Voyage of Eärendil Finished
. 34 Of the Great Battle and the War of Wrath Finished


volume 2: NÚMENOR AND THE HISTORY OF MIDDLE-EARTH

The Black Years Priv. Draft
. Of the Rings of Power Priv. Draft
. Relations of the Longbeard Dwarves and Men Priv. Draft
. A description of the island of Númenor Priv. Draft
. Aldarion and Erendis Priv. Draft
. Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn First Draft
. The Port of Lond Dear Priv. Draft
. Glorfindel Priv. Draft
. Note on the landing of the Five Wizards and their functions and operations Priv. Draft
. Of the Rings of Power Priv. Draft
. Tal-Elmar Priv. Draft
. Akallabêth Priv. Draft
{. The Lost Road Chapter III} Priv. Draft
{. The Lost Road Chapter IV} Priv. Draft
. The Last Alliance Priv. Draft
The Third Age
. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age Untouched
. Of the Disaster of the Gladden Fields First Draft
... The Sources of the Legend of Isildurs Death
. The Annals of the Kings and Rulers Untouched
. Cirion and Eorl Untouched
. The Quest for Erebor Untouched
. The Battle of the Fords of Isen Untouched
. The Hunt for the Ring Untouched
. The New Shadow Untouched


volume 3: THE LORE OF THE WISE
Laws and Customs Among the Eldar First Draft

Of Naming First Draft
Of Death and the Severance of Fëa and Hröa First Draft
Of Re-birth and Others Dooms of Those That Go to Mandos First Draft
Of the Severance of Marriage First Draft
The Statute of Finwë and Míriel First Draft
The Convers of Manwë and Eru First Draft

Ambrakanta Priv. Draft

Maps and Diagramms Untouched

The Lhammas Untouched

Essekenta Eldarinwa Untouched

Quendi and the Eldar Untouched

Of Lembas Untouched

Dangweth Pengolodh Priv. Draft

Óssanwë Kenta Untouched

Assorted Poems Untouched

The Line of Elros and the Kings of Númenor Priv. Draft

The Istari Untouched

The Geneologies Untouched

Scholarly Notes and Essays

Commentary on the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth First Draft
A Note on the Stars First Draft
Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion First Draft
{Of }Aman{ and Mortal Men} First Draft
The Palantíri First Draft
A Note on Númenórean Linear Measures First Draft

ArcusCalion, you see that I have taken up your structure in some parts. That does not mean that I fully agree to it. I will give her some comments:
Volume 2 is in my vision of it build by two parts: ‘The Elder Day’ and ‘The Third Age’. For the first of these I did a full draft of my own. My idea was to follow the same principle as in volume 1: to report the history of that time in nearly chronological order. Therefore my Second Age stuff is more not separated between Nomenor and Middle-earth. To get a readable work some parts of the sources must then be moved freely. That means they are not found under the appropriate chapter heading, but somewhere else. I see that you do some similar thing with ‘Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age’. And I have used earlier parts of the ‘Akalabeth’ in a similar way.
I envisioned the second part in a similar fain, so I foresaw more problems in the Third Age material to get a readable closed sequence. But since I never did any work in that part, don’t no if it is possible or not. By that process such works as ‘The Line of Elros and the Kings of Númenor’ would be shifted to volume 3.
Beside that I would not include any text that is given in the Appendices of LotR. Sources published by JRR Tolkien himself are taboo for the project. They can and must be used as a guideline, but they are not edited in TftE. (If you envision a 5 volume TftE they might be included in full.) We might at some point use a sentence of these sources here and there, if really no other source can be found, but even than for the sack of no redundant text I would search first the appropriate HoMe volumes.
That said I do not see what ‘The tale of the Years’ would include. We do not have enough of that text to create a First Age text and we do not double the Second and Third Age from the Appendices of LotR.
Would ‘Cirion and Eorl’ include all the history of the Northmen as allies of Gondor? I think yes, but then the chapter title might be asking for a change.
I think ‘The Istarí’ does refer to the long essay at the start of that chapter in Unfished Tales. Since that is written in retrospective, I moved it to volume 3.
I removed ‘Glorfindel’, since it is included in my draft of the Second Age stuff.
I removed ‘The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen’ since that is found in the Appendix to LotR.
But I included ‘The New Shadow’. If it is fitting and can be edited to a satisfactory form is in question, but at least it is worth a try.
In volume 3 I am not able to comment much at the time being. Beside what I explained above I only shifted the ‘Maps and Diagrams’ into the ‘Ambarkanta’. If we are really able to update maps and diagrams, then the diagrams belong here and the full scale maps should be included in the other two volumes.

One side note about the work on first and private drafts: Once in the history of the project Maedhros and I had done draft for RoD in parallel. The comparison between these were a nightmare and in the end we had to change the working procedure for that chapter to get it done in a good way, and with that the hard all the work of making these drafts and comparing them was rendered nearly useless.
The reason why I relatively soon made my post with the first version of this ‘state of the project list’ was exactly to avoid having again parallel drafts. And now I see that nonetheless you did work on the second age material that was already in ‘Draft’ state, and that even without re-starting the general discussion that Arvegil145 and I had of how to. I fear that in the end either your time for doing this drafts was wasted of mine. I hope it is yours, since ‘ever’ seems to be a short span in your reconing.

About gandalf85’s points:
1) ‘Of Eldamar and Princes of teh Eldalie’:As you see above that is still on my computer waiting to be posted here. The work needed to do that, is to shorten it for the public forum to as good as possible in line with copy right law and to comment on the changes I introduce.
‘Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Finwë and Miríel’: There is nothing more finished than the text of 2004. And since the project has developed since that time the state of the chapter is ‘Semi-finished’.

2) ‘Of the Darkening of Valinor‘ is included in all the chapter headings because that was how we understood what Tolkien intended. But since all these chapters are in the ‘Semi-finished’ state this point can also be discussed.

3) gandalf85, why do you think the ‘Athrabeth’ shouldn’t been placed at its chronological place? Now after we have worked out a draft for ‘Of the Edain’ my feeling is that it is even more fitting exactly there.

4) If I remember rightly it is a part of either ‘Dangweth Pengolodh’ or ‘Essekenta Eldarinwa’ that was not included in the HoMe volume due to space restriction. (This should then as well be the placing in our volume 3.) It is correct that it was then published in Vinyar Tengwar.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Normally I would not agree that the chronological breakup of the texts is what is needed, but we have been doing this throughout Volume 1, so it is in line with the project and thus makes sense. Do not worry, I have not wasted any time on editing the second age and third age stuff, as I knew that you had a clear idea and draft of the structure. Have no fear, I will defer to your draft in this matter. The only point I would argue of your draft: Glorfindel and the Istari came during the third age, as it is told in the published Tale of Years. Thus, we should not include this in the "Black Years" section.

On that note, is the name "The Black Years" meant to be the equivalent to the "Quenta Silmarillion," because if so, I would argue we should look for a Tolkien Based document title, or a mirror name like "The History of the Rings: Quenta Million;" just a thought.

The Tale of Years was indeed a risky addition of mine, but I figured we could include an entirely synthesized group of dates for major events that we post as an appendix to give some historical context to the stories. That may very well be antithetical to the project, and I do not disagree with its removal from the list.

The Cirion and Eorl point may well be as you say, and we can discuss it at the time of the drafting. The Istari movement is fine as well.

I only refrained from including The New Shadow because you had expressed reluctance about its inclusion when asked by Arvegil. I am glad you think now that we should include it. Consider it a late appendix by Sanwise to the Red Book that has been lost due to damage or some such.

I only put the diagrams at the end bc they include the Tree of Tongues in the Lhammas, but we can put that at the end of the Lhammas.

If you think that the Ossanwe should be appended to Essekenta Eldarinwa, then I will not contest.

[Findegil]

Glorfindel is not named as coming during the Third Age in 'The Tale of the Years' and in the essay it self the possibility that an Elve would be send in the Third Age is clearly denied. So at least the 'Glorfindel' part is in the 'Blackyears section.
And the Istari we have to discuss. The essay from HoMe 12 might be a proposed change that we can't use due to 'The Tale of the Years'.

'The Black Years' is Tolkien base so he probabaly never used it as a documenttitle, but as a Name of time period describt.

My reservations about 'The NEw Shadow' and the argument given in the discussion with Arvegil145 are still valid, but as with so many other problematic ingredents, I think we should try and see from the result if it feasable.

I did forget the Leangue-trees from the Lhammas, but would as you say include them connected to the Lhammas.

Respectfully
Findegil

[gandalf85]

My major objection to the Athrabeth being a part of the Quenta itself is that it is primarily a philosophical discussion which really don't aid or progress the narrative of the Quenta and it may not flow well. I view it in a similar way to the "Statute of Finwe and Miriel" and the "Converse of Manwe and Eru", both of which are in Volume 3. However, if you think it works well in the draft you have I'll concede.

[lindil]

I can only add the project was started expressly with the purpose of maximal inclusion.

to expose more folks to the gems buried in the silm. CJRT's silm was created for a] as much consistency with lotr as could be achieved simply and create a 'canonical' silm.
b] mirror jrrt's compending down from the 'great tales'.

that has been done, this was, at least originally for opposite motives.

if time and intention allows would love to go from peeking to diving back in, we see.

Deep bow to you folks!

[Aiwendil]

Well, there's certainly been a burst of activity here since I last looked in!

Welcome to the new and returning members!

I would like to try to get back into the project, but with all the new drafts, it is a little overwhelming. I have also had some proposed drafts of some of these chapters sitting on my hard drive for years now, and had been waiting until we "officially" started on those sections to post them. I'm not sure if the best thing now is for me to post those for comparison with the drafts prepared by Findegil and ArcusCalion, or not.

I also have notes for revision/review on several of the previously completed chapters, which again I had not yet posted until we officially revisited those chapters. I cannot now recall which of these we had already re-discussed and which we hadn't.

I will try to review the recent discussions in the next few days and perhaps then will have a better idea as to how to proceed.

[Findegil]

It is a pity that it seems we all seem to have waited for the project to go on in stead of posting what we had worked out.

I would say that the list of revisions of finished (well they seem to be rather semi-finshed if you have found things to correct) chapter you should post as soon as possible in the state they are. We can sort out if there are any parts of it are no longer applicable.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Aiwendil]

All right, I've posted the notes I had on Earendil, Turin, and the Ruin of Doriath. It appears that we had already discussed and addressed my corresponding notes on Beren & Luthien, the Fall of Gondolin, and the Ruin of Beleriand.

I also have a few proposals for texts of some of the early chapters, which I'd like to sort through and then post for discussion alongside the proposals made by Findegil and ArcusCalion. I'll try to do that in the next day or two.

[ArcusCalion]

Omg can I just say that this is really exciting!

[Findegil]

Since we worked farther on I will again update the status and this time I also include the sup-chapters to have the full outline given here:

The following status classes still are used:
Untouched: Chapter is foreseen in the structure, but nothing more is done about it.
First Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, not yet in a state ready for group discussion.
Priv. Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, ready for group discussion, but not yet posted in the Forum.
Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, and posted in the Forum. But up to now no discussion had started.
Work in progress: Discussed in the Forum but not yet deemed finished by the members OR once deemed finished but known to be in need of substantial revision.
Semi-finished: finished but with small points raised by new sources or new input that must be discussed.
Finished: Done and all members are still happy with the result.

TRANSLATION FROM THE ELVISH
volume 1: THE ELDER DAYS

Ainulindale Finished
. The Music of the Ainur Finished

Valaquenta Finished
. Of the Valar Finished
. Of the Maiar Finished
. Of the Enemies Semi Finished

Quenta Silmarillion
. 1 Of the Beginning of Time Work in progress
. 2 Of Valinor and the Two Trees Work in progress
. 3 Concerning Naugrim, Ents and Eagles Work in progress
.. Of Aulë and the Dwarves Work in progress
... Here are the words of {Pengolod}[Pengolodh] concerning the Naugrim Work in progress
.. Anaxartaron Onyalie Work in progress
... Of the Ents and the Eagles Work in progress
. 4 Of the Coming of the Elves Work in progress
.. The legend of the Awaking of the Quendi (Cuivienyarna) Work in progress
.. Of the captivity of Melkor Work in progress
.. The Clan-names, with notes on other names for divisions of the Eldar. Work in progress
… Vanyar Work in progress
… Ñoldor Work in progress
… Lindar (Teleri) Work in progress
… Nandor Work in progress
… Sindar Work in progress
... Eglan, pl. Eglain, Egladrim Work in progress
. 5 Of Thingol and Melian Work in progress
. 6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie Work in progress
.. The names of Finwë's descendants Work in progress
… Here are some of the chief names of Finwë and his descendants: Work in progress
… 1. [The names of Finwë and his spouses] Work in progress
… 2. [The names of the Child of Míriel] Work in progress
… 3. [The names of the Children of Indis] Work in progress
… 4. [The names of the Children of Fingolfin] Work in progress
… 5. [The names of the Children of Finarfin] Work in progress
… 6. The names of the Sons of Fëanor. Work in progress
. 7 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Finwë and Míriel Semi-finished
. 8 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor Semi-finished
. 9 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor Semi-finished
. 10 Of the Drakening of Valinor Semi-finished
.. Of the Rape of the Silmaril Semi-finished
. 11 Of the Thieves’ Quarrel Semi-finished
. 12 Of the Flight of the Noldor Work in progress
.. Of the Speech of Fëanor upon Túna Work in progress
.. Of the first Kin-slaying and the Doom of the Noldor Work in progress
. 13 Of the Sindar Work in progress
.. Of the Building of Menegroth Work in progress
.. The Coming of Denethor Work in progress
. 14 Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor Work in progress
. 15 Of Men Work in progress
. 16 Of the Coming of the Noldor Work in progress
.. Of Fingon and Maedros Work in progress
.. Of the Siege of Angband Work in progress
.. Concerning the Dwarves Work in progress
. 17 The Founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin Work in progress
.. Of Dagor Aglareb Work in progress
. 18 Of Beleriand and it's Realms Work in progress
. 19 Of the Noldor in Beleriand Work in progress
. 20 Of Turgon and the Building of Gondolin Work in progress
. 21 Of Maeglin Work in progress
.. Sister-son of Turgon, King of Gondolin Work in progress
. 22 Of{ the Naugrim and }the Edain Work in progress
.. Of the Coming of Men into the West and the Metting of the Edain and the Eldar Work in progress
.. Of the Kindreds and Houses of the Edain Work in progress
... The Drúedain Work in progress

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth Semi Finished
. The Debate of Finrod and Andreth Semi Finished
. The Tale of Adanel Semi Finished
.. The 'Tale of Adanel' Semi Finished
. 23 Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin Finished
The Death of Fingolfin Finished
.. The Sige of Eithel Sirion and the Fall of Galdor Finished
.. Of the Swarthy Men Finished

Narn Beren ion Barahir or Narn e•Dinúviel Finished
. The Lay of Leithian Finished
.. Of Thingol in Doriath Finished
... Of Lúthien the Beloved Finished
... Of {Dairon}[Daeron] Minstrel of Thingol Finished
.. Of Morgoth & the Snaring of Gorlim Finished
... Of the Saving of King {Inglor}[Finrod] Felagund by the XII Bëorings Finished
... Of Tarn Aeluin the Blesses Finished
... Of Gorlim Unhappy Finished
.. Of Beren Son of Barahir & his Escape Finished
.. Of the Coming of Beren to Doriath; but first is told of the Meeting of Melian and Thingol Finished
... Beren's meeting with Lúthien Finished
.. Beren before Thingol Finished
.. Lúthien's captivity in Doriath Finished
.. Beren in Nargothrond Finished
.. Beren and Felagund before Sauron Finished
.. Lúthien in Nargothrond Finished
.. The defeat of Sauron Finished
.. The attack by Celegorm and Curufin Finished
.. The disguising of Beren and Lúthien and the journey to Angband Finished
.. Fingolfin and Morgoth; the meeting with Carcharoth Finished
.. Beren and Lúthien in Angband Finished
.. Escape from Angband Finished
. 26 The Quest of the Silmaril 2 Finished
. 27 The Quest of the Silmaril 3: Finished
.. The Wolf-hunt of Carcharoth Finished
. 28 The Song of Lúthien in Mandos Finished
.. The Choices of Lúthien Finished

Narn e•mbar Hador Finished
. Narn e•’Rach Morgoth Finished
.. Narn i Chîn Húrin Finished
... The Tale of the Children of Húrin Finished
... Of the Union of {Maidros}[Maedros] Finished
... The Childhood of Túrin Finished
. 29 Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad Finished
.. Nirnaeth Arnoediad Finished
... The Battel of Unnumbered Tears Finished
... The Words of Húrin and Morgoth Finished
... The Departure of Túrin Finished
... Túrin in Doriath Finished
... Túrin among the Outlaws Finished
... Of Mîm the Dwarf Finished
... The Land of Bow and Helm Finished
... The death of Beleg Finished
... {Failivrin}[Faelivrin] Finished
... Túrin in Nargothrond Finished
... The Fall of Nargothrond Finished
... The Return of Túrin to Dor-lómin Finished
... The coming of Túrin into Brethil Finished
... The Journey of Morwen and Niënor to Nargothrond Finished
... Niënor in Brethil Finished
... The Coming of Glaurung Finished
... The Death of Glaurung Finished
... The Death of Túrin Finished

. 31 Of the Ruin of Doriath Finished
.. Sigil Elu-naeth Finished
... Necklace of the Woe of Thingol Finished
... The Wanderings of Húrin Finished
... The Nauglamír Finished

. Narn en•Êl Finished
.. Narn e•Dant Gondolin Finished
… Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin Finished

. 33 Of the Voyage of Eärendil Finished
.. Orthad en•Êl Finished
. 34 Of the Great Battle and the War of Wrath Finished
.. Of the Last End of the Oath of Fëanor and his Sons Finished
.. Of the Passing of the Elves Finished
.. The Second Prophecy of Mandos Finished

volume 2: NÚMENOR AND THE HISTORY OF MIDDLE-EARTH

The Black Years Priv. Draft
. The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves Priv. Draft
.. * * * Priv. Draft
. Relations of the Longbeard Dwarves and Men Priv. Draft
. A description of the island of Númenor Priv. Draft
.. * * * Priv. Draft
. Aldarion and Erendis Priv. Draft
.. The Mariner's Wife Priv. Draft
.. * * * Priv. Draft
.. The Further Course of the Narrative Priv. Draft
. Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn First Draft
. The Port of Lond Dear Priv. Draft
. Glorfindel Priv. Draft
. Note on the landing of the Five Wizards and their functions and operations Priv. Draft
. Of the Rings of Power Priv. Draft
. Tal-Elmar Priv. Draft
. Akallabêth Priv. Draft
.. * * *{The Lost Road Chapter III} Priv. Draft
.. * * *{. The Lost Road Chapter IV} Priv. Draft
.. * * * Priv. Draft
.. * * * Priv. Draft
. The Last Alliance Priv. Draft
The Third Age Untouched
. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age Untouched
. Of the Disaster of the Gladden Fields First Draft
.. The Sources of the Legend of Isildurs Death First Draft
. The Annals of the Kings and Rulers Untouched
. Cirion and Eorl Untouched
. The Quest for Erebor Untouched
. The Battle of the Fords of Isen Untouched
. The Hunt for the Ring Untouched
. The New Shadow Untouched


volume 3: THE LORE OF THE WISE
Laws and Customs Among the Eldar First Draft
. Of Naming First Draft
. Of Death and the Severance of Fëa and Hröa First Draft
. Of Re-birth and Others Dooms of Those That Go to Mandos First Draft
. Of the Severance of Marriage First Draft
. The Statute of Finwë and Míriel First Draft
. The Convers of Manwë and Eru First Draft

Ambrakanta Draft
. Of the Fashion of the World Draft
.. Rúmil Draft
. Maps and Diagramms Untouched

The Lhammas Untouched
. Language Trees Untouched

Essekenta Eldarinwa Untouched
Quendi and the Eldar Untouched

Of Lembas Untouched

Dangweth Pengolodh Priv. Draft

Óssanwë Kenta Untouched

Assorted Poems Untouched

The Line of Elros and the Kings of Númenor Priv. Draft

The Istari Untouched

The Geneologies Untouched

Scholarly Notes and Essays
. Commentary on the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth First Draft
. A Note on the Stars First Draft
. Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion First Draft
. {Of }Aman{ and Mortal Men} First Draft
. The Palantíri First Draft
. A Note on Númenórean Linear Measures First Draft

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

So much progress! Can I just ask what the * * * mean in the Second Age outlines?

[Findegil]

These '* * *' are sub-divisions of a chapter without a title. If nothing is written behind them, they occure in the original text. Some other are included, when the title is unuseable as in the case of the additions from Lost Road.

Respectfully
Findegil

[gondowe]

Oh my God, this is very much for me. Since the last time I could pass for this forum it was an overwhelming amount of new discussions that I have no time to review.
Hello to the old and eternal discussers, specially Findegil and the new ones.
I only would want to ask ArcusCalion that if read my old post about my project in Spanish http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15248 only to consider my structure of the entire project.
In the post 58, that I edited right now with minor changes, is perfectly stated.
And a remembering for the old discussers for it could be helpful.
The pity for this forum is that is written in Spanish but with the published material we have now, is absolutely finished (for me). Many time I had not work on it because there were no published material worthy to add (Parma Eldalamberon).
Greetings.

[ArcusCalion]

I've seen your post before gondowe and I was very impressed that you managed to do the entire thing on your own, translating it into Spanish no less! I see why you made the outline you did, but I don't know that I would have made all the same choices. However, it is a very thorough structure, and I commend you on it! My boyfriend is from Ecuador, and I am trying to learn Spanish to get closer to his mother, so I would love to take a look at the finished work to see if I can read it!

[Aiwendil]

Hi Gondowe! Good to see you.

The amount of work done by Findegil and ArcusCalion is a bit overwhelming for me as well, as I was away from the forum for a few months while it was going on! If you'd like to stay involved, we've been working on chapters 1 and 2 recently.

[ArcusCalion]

Aiwendil, I was wondering, now that we have finished the first 3 chapters, are we going to continue in order? or should we get the easier chapters done quickly? I personally am inclined to the latter. If you agree, I would say we should do them thus:

1) Of Thingol and Melian
2) Of the Sindar
3) Of the Founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin
4) Of Beleriand and its Realms
5) Of the Noldor in Beleriand
6) Of Turgon and the Building of Gondolin
7) Of Maeglin
8) Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth

This concludes the easiest chapters with the least debate between Fin and me. I believe these will not present many difficulties and would be fairly easy to get through quickly. The next block would be:

9) Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie
10) Of the Flight of the Noldor
11) Of the Coming of the Noldor
12) Of the {Naugrim and the} Edain

These chapters are sightly more complex, with more additions from other places. However, they are all rather straightforward additions, with little contest. The last block is:

13) Of the Coming of the Elves
14) Of the Darkening of Valinor (all parts including Thieves' Quarrel)
15) Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor
16) Of Men

These last chapters represent the most difficult to create, with the Orcs material for 13, the Shibboleth material for 14, the LT and MT material for 15, and the LT material for 16. Of all of these, 15 will no doubt be the most complex, as it is the longest and has the most additions from the most various sources.

Thoughts?

[Aiwendil]

I had been planning to continue in order, but I'm not committed to that. I'm fine with doing some easier chapters first.

I don't think we're done with chapter 3 yet, though. I'm working through it right now and will have some comments on the current draft soon.

[Findegil]

I agree with Aiwendil that we are not done with chapter 3. We did not discuss much there, because we were occupied with the discussions of chapter 1 and 2. But we did as yet not agree on many points raised by Aiwendil.

As fort he time when chapter 3 is done, I am also not committed to any special order. My first idea was as Aiwendil’s to continue in order. Second thought was just contrary to ArcusCalions to use the momentum we have in the moment and tackle first done the most critical once which would mean probably to start with Of the Darkening of Valinor, specially since some of our decision taken in chapters 1 and 3 would have some bearings on that chapter. But as already said, I am not fix on any of this, and we can go with ArcusCalion’s order as well.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

I just felt like if we could finish off the easy chapters first, it would give us more of a confidence and momentum boost to get into the more difficult chapters.

[gondowe]

As I said before, I feel very impotent withe this first chapters and others because my treatment of the texts are far from yours and only can help in minor points.
I cannot conceive to insert texts like Aman or Q&E or The Shibboleth, etc into the pure narrative.
I think the professor use it as references and they would be well as Appendix as he always did. (Well, yes only in Tlotr, but is enough). The same would say about a massive use of filosophic MT into the narrative.
But of course I respect your opinion, is my humble one.
Greetings

[Findegil]

I updated the status. The following status classes still are used:
Untouched: Chapter is foreseen in the structure, but nothing more is done about it.
First Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, not yet in a state ready for group discussion.
Priv. Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, ready for group discussion, but not yet posted in the Forum.
Draft: Compilation of text done by one member, and posted in the Forum. But up to now no discussion had started.
Work in progress: Discussed in the Forum but not yet deemed finished by the members OR once deemed finished but known to be in need of substantial revision.
Semi-finished: finished but with small points raised by new sources or new input that must be discussed.
Finished: Done and all members are still happy with the result.

TRANSLATION FROM THE ELVISH
volume 1: THE ELDER DAYS

Ainulindale ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. The Music of the Ainur .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished

Valaquenta ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. Of the Valar …. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. Of the Maiar ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. Of the Enemies ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished

Quenta Silmarillion
. 1 Of the Beginning of Time ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. 2 Of Valinor and the Two Trees .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. 3 Concerning Naugrim, Ents and Eagles . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Of Aulë and the Dwarves ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Here are the words of {Pengolod}[Pengolodh] concerning the Naugrim .. ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Anaxartaron Onyalie .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Of the Ents and the Eagles ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. 4 Of the Coming of the Elves . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. The legend of the Awaking of the Quendi (Cuivienyarna) .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of the captivity of Melkor .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. The Clan-names, with notes on other names for divisions of the Eldar. .. ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… Vanyar ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… Ñoldor .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… Lindar (Teleri) .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… Nandor ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… Sindar ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
... Eglan, pl. Eglain, Egladrim .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 5 Of Thingol and Melian ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 6 Of Eldamar and the Princes of the Eldalie ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Aman . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. The names of Finwë's descendants .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… Here are some of the chief names of Finwë and his descendants: .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… 1. [The names of Finwë and his spouses] .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… 2. [The names of the Child of Míriel] .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… 3. [The names of the Children of Indis] …. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… 4. [The names of the Children of Fingolfin] ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… 5. [The names of the Children of Finarfin] . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
… 6. The names of the Sons of Fëanor .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 7 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Finwë and Míriel ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Semi-finished
. 8 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of Fëanor and the Unchaining of Melkor . ... ... ... ... ... Semi-finished
. 9 Of the Darkening of Valinor: Of the Silmarils and the Unrest of the Noldor .. ... ... ... Semi-finished
. 10 Of the Drakening of Valinor .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Semi-finished
.. Of the Rape of the Silmaril . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Semi-finished
. 11 Of the Thieves’ Quarrel ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Semi-finished
. 12 Of the Flight of the Noldor ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of the Speech of Fëanor upon Túna .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of the first Kin-slaying and the Doom of the Noldor …. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 13 Of the Sindar .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of the Building of Menegroth .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. The Coming of Denethor ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 14 Of the Sun and Moon and the Hiding of Valinor ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 15 Of Men ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 16 Of the Coming of the Noldor .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of Fingon and Maedros ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of the Siege of Angband ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Concerning the Dwarves ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 17 The Founding of Nargothrond and Gondolin ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of Dagor Aglareb . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 18 Of Beleriand and it's Realms .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 19 Of the Noldor in Beleriand ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 20 Of Turgon and the Building of Gondolin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 21 Of Maeglin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Sister-son of Turgon, King of Gondolin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
. 22 Of{ the Naugrim and }the Edain .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of the Coming of Men into the West and the Metting of the Edain and the Eldar . ... ... ... Work in progress
.. Of the Kindreds and Houses of the Edain .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress
... The Drúedain . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Work in progress

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. The Debate of Finrod and Andreth . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. The Tale of Adanel ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. The 'Tale of Adanel' ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. 23 Of the Ruin of Beleriand and the Fall of Fingolfin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
The Death of Fingolfin .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. The Sige of Eithel Sirion and the Fall of Galdor ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Of the Swarthy Men .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... … Finished

Narn Beren ion Barahir or Narn e•Dinúviel … … ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... … … … … … Finished
. The Lay of Leithian ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Of Thingol in Doriath ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Of Lúthien the Beloved ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Of {Dairon}[Daeron] Minstrel of Thingol . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... … Finished
.. Of Morgoth & the Snaring of Gorlim ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Of the Saving of King {Inglor}[Finrod] Felagund by the XII Bëorings … ... ... ... ... ... ... … Finished
... Of Tarn Aeluin the Blesses ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Of Gorlim Unhappy ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Of Beren Son of Barahir & his Escape ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Of the Coming of Beren to Doriath; but first is told of the Meeting of Melian and Thingol ... Finished
... Beren's meeting with Lúthien . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Beren before Thingol . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Lúthien's captivity in Doriath ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Beren in Nargothrond ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Beren and Felagund before Sauron . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Lúthien in Nargothrond . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. The defeat of Sauron . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. The attack by Celegorm and Curufin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. The disguising of Beren and Lúthien and the journey to Angband ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Fingolfin and Morgoth; the meeting with Carcharoth . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... … Finished
.. Beren and Lúthien in Angband .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Escape from Angband ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. 26 The Quest of the Silmaril 2 ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. 27 The Quest of the Silmaril 3: ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. The Wolf-hunt of Carcharoth .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... … Finished
. 28 The Song of Lúthien in Mandos . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. The Choices of Lúthien .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... … Finished

Narn e•mbar Hador ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. Narn e•’Rach Morgoth . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... … Finished
.. Narn i Chîn Húrin ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Tale of the Children of Húrin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Of the Union of {Maidros}[Maedros] . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Childhood of Túrin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. 29 Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Nirnaeth Arnoediad ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Battel of Unnumbered Tears .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Words of Húrin and Morgoth . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Departure of Túrin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Túrin in Doriath ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Túrin among the Outlaws .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Of Mîm the Dwarf ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Land of Bow and Helm ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The death of Beleg . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... {Failivrin}[Faelivrin] .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Túrin in Nargothrond ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Fall of Nargothrond ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Return of Túrin to Dor-lómin ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The coming of Túrin into Brethil . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Journey of Morwen and Niënor to Nargothrond ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Niënor in Brethil ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Coming of Glaurung ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Death of Glaurung . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Death of Túrin .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished

. 31 Of the Ruin of Doriath .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Sigil Elu-naeth .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... Necklace of the Woe of Thingol ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Wanderings of Húrin ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
... The Nauglamír . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished

. Narn en•Êl . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Narn e•Dant Gondolin ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
… Of Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished

. 33 Of the Voyage of Eärendil ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Orthad en•Êl ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
. 34 Of the Great Battle and the War of Wrath .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Of the Last End of the Oath of Fëanor and his Sons ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. Of the Passing of the Elves . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished
.. The Second Prophecy of Mandos . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Finished

volume 2: NÚMENOR AND THE HISTORY OF MIDDLE-EARTH

The Black Years ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. The Sindarin Princes of the Silvan Elves .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. * * * . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. Relations of the Longbeard Dwarves and Men ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. A description of the island of Númenor .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. * * * . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. Aldarion and Erendis ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. The Mariner's Wife ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. * * * . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. The Further Course of the Narrative ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. Concerning Galadriel and Celeborn ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. The Port of Lond Dear .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. Glorfindel ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. Note on the landing of the Five Wizards and their functions and operations . ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. Of the Rings of Power .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
Aman and Mortal Men ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. * * * . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. Tal-Elmar ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. Akallabêth . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. * * *{The Lost Road Chapter III} .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. * * *{The Lost Road Chapter IV} .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. * * * . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
.. * * * . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
. The Last Alliance .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft
The Third Age ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched
. Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age …. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched
. Of the Disaster of the Gladden Fields .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
.. The Sources of the Legend of Isildurs Death . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. The Annals of the Kings and Rulers ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched
. Cirion and Eorl …. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched
. The Quest for Erebor ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched
. The Battle of the Fords of Isen . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched
. The Hunt for the Ring ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

The New Shadow .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched


volume 3: THE LORE OF THE WISE
Laws and Customs Among the Eldar ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. Of Naming .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. Of Death and the Severance of Fëa and Hröa . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. Of Re-birth and Others Dooms of Those That Go to Mandos . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. Of the Severance of Marriage ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. The Statute of Finwë and Míriel . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. The Convers of Manwë and Eru . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft

Ambrakanta .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Draft
. Of the Fashion of the World . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Draft
.. Rúmil .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Draft
. Maps and Diagramms . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

The Lhammas .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched
. Language Trees . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

Essekenta Eldarinwa …. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched
Quendi and the Eldar …. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

Of Lembas ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

Dangweth Pengolodh ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft

Óssanwë Kenta ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

Assorted Poems .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

The Line of Elros and the Kings of Númenor …. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Priv. Draft

The Istari .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

The Geneologies .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... Untouched

Scholarly Notes and Essays
. Commentary on the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. A Note on the Stars .... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion . ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. The Palantíri .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft
. A Note on Númenórean Linear Measures .. ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... First Draft

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Why is Of the Enemies in the Valaquenta only semi-finished? Also why is the Athrabeth semi-finished? Arvegil, you, and me all reached a consensus on the draft, is that not enough to reach the Finished state?

[Findegil]

. Of the Enemies: Okay, the discussion is finished so I will corret it. When I started the update we were still discussing the additions found during our work on chapter one.

Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth: Reading the last posting in that threads does not feel conclusivly finished. But since you utter here that your are happy with the results that means the discussion is done I will change it in Posting above.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

While we await Aiwendil's comments on our further drafts, Fin, should we try to tackle Of the Darkening of Valinor? you and I never really discussed my edits I proposed, and it remains the last chapter we have not really discussed. I am fairly confident that 4 of the 6 sections will pose little problem, with the main difficulties lying in Of Finwe and Miriel and Of the Darkening of Valinor. The other sections are very straightforward changes and additions.

[Findegil]

ArcusCalion, I appriate your enthusiasem, but I do not like the idea of splited forces much. In my point of view it does not archive any accelaration of the work to be done. On the contary, In my expirence it was ever the most time consumimg part to integrate another oppinion once a working group had established a consens on a smaller basis.

If you burn with the desire to see what will be the outcome of DoV, I would suggest that we all start to discuss that chapter first. If Aiwendil agree to that I have not problem doing so. Otherwise your nice additions have to wait their time until we come in the group work to that chapter.

Respectfully
Findegil

P.S.: At the time when it was not clear if Aiwendil would rejoin the project at all, I think it was okay for ArcusCalion and me push the project forward, but that Aiwendil is back and working with us, it would be a rude to send him checking some of our drafts, wilhe we do the nice work draft development without him.

[ArcusCalion]

Hmmmm I had not thought of it that way. My apologies. We could do DoV next if Aiwendil wants, but if not that is fine as well.

[Aiwendil]

Hi, guys. I just wanted to drop by and apologize for my absence. I'm still grappling with this illness, and just don't have the mental power for the project right now. After getting some antibiotics, I do seem to be slowly improving, but it may still be a week or two before I can get back into things.

[ArcusCalion]

I'm so sorry to hear that Aiwendil, don't worry about us. Focus on getting better!

[gondowe]

First of all is our health. We're growing old . I frecuently am ill due to the viruses of my children.
l hope you are completely restaured very soon.
Greetings.

[Findegil]

My best wishes for your healts, Aiwendil.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Quick note, but I think we should include almost the entire entry for PHAN from Words, Phrases, and Passages in PE17 in the "Scholarly Notes and Essays" section of Volume III with the title: On √PHAN; Fana and Related Matters with the subheadings The Knowledge of the Valar, or Elvish Ideas and Theories Concerned with Them and Other Derivatives of √PHAN as these titles are in the text. It contains a wealth of information about the bodies and perceptions of the Valar and Maiar, but I think to include it into the text of Chapter 1 would be too disruptive and difficult.

[Findegil]

That is a good addition and much easie to handle than others, like The Lhammas.

Respectfully
Findegil

[ArcusCalion]

Trying to edit the Lhammas is giving me heartburn..... lol

[ArcusCalion]

After talking with gondowe about the Lhammas, I have come up with a new structure for Volume III:

VOLUME III: THE LORE OF THE WISE

Laws and Customs of the Eldar
- [Of Marriage]
- Of Naming
- Of Death and the Severance of Fëa and Hröa
- Of Re-birth and Other Dooms of Those That Go to Mandos
- Of the Severance of Marriage
- Namna Finwë Míriello
- The Converse of Manwë and Eru
The Lammas
- Dangweth Pengolodh
- Tengwesta Quenderinwa
-- Lambion Ontalë
--- The Division of Tongues
--- Excursus on the Languages of Beleriand
-- Lámaquenta
-- Sundocarmë
-- Lámasampanë
-- Mestanyatsë
-- Minquetyarmë
-- The Earliest Changes and Inventions Common to the Eldar
- Essecenta Eldarinwa
-- The Primary Linguistic Elements
-- The Meanings and Use of the Various Terms Applied to the Elves, and Their Varieties in Quenya, Telerin, and Sindarin
--- Quenya
--- Telerin
--- Sindarin
--- *Abarī
-- The Clan Names, with Notes on the Names of Other Divisions of the Eldar
--- Lindar (Teleri)
--- Vanyar
--- Noldor
--- Sindar
--- Nandor
- Appendix A. Elvish Names for Men
- Appendix B. Elvish Names for the Dwarves
-- The Petty Dwarves
- Appendix C. Elvish Names for the Orcs
- Appendix D. *KWEN, Quenya, and Elvish (Especially Noldorin) Words for 'Language'
-- Note on the 'Language of the Valar'
- Appendix E. Ósanwë Centa
- Appendix F. On *PHAN, Fana, and Related Matters
-- The Knowledge of the Valar, or Elvish Ideas and Theories Concerning Them
-- Other Derivatives of *PHAN
- Appendix G. Notes on Órë
- The Tree of Tongues
Ambarcanta
- Maps and Diagrams
Assorted Lore
- The Istari
- Of Lembas
- The Sources of the Legend of Isildur's Death
- The Line of Elros and the Kings of Númenor
- The Rivers and Beacon-Hills of Gondor
Assorted Poems
The Geneologies
Scholarly Notes and Essays
- Commentary of the Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth
-- Author's Notes to the Commentary
- Notes on Motives in the Silmarillion
-- (i)
-- (ii)
-- (iii)
- The Palantíri
- A Note on Númenórean Linear Measures

[ArcusCalion]

I know I'm a day late, but Happy Yule! I hope y'all have a great holiday season!

[Aiwendil]

Happy new year, everyone. Sorry again for my recent absence. I should be able to start getting back into things here within the next week or two.

[ArcusCalion]

I am so glad to hear that you're doing well!! Happy 2018 as well

[lindil]

Happy New year all! If God wills I will buzz in at least 1x a month and maybe each saturday to refamiliarize ...

I been off past edge of wild.

Am in Hawaii...another couple of weeks...after that a steady rhythm may be more than a dream for me.

TftE was just a dream for a long time ...you folks really did it.

Aiwendil...good to see you! Glad you healing up.

Lets talk to admin about making a new mod or two.

Pm me! I cant get my pm sending sorted....to long in the Eastland and westeros.

A huge vast fill the halls of moria with a long round of applause for keeping at this Niggle-ing.

Anyone into herbs or natural remedies hit me up in pm land for a digital version of Matthew Wood and I's Earthwise Herbal Repertory (north atlantic 2016) a true radagast of our times..indeed I know him as most important English Lang herbalist since Culpepper.

Vol 3 looks well shaped! I wanted to tinker lol. But won't dare.

Aloha from big island!