Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Is there any specific way that the next [part of the] story should start, or anybody specific that should start it?

[mark12_30]

Good question. I think I'll reserve a few slots for the men's parade south, and then open it up-- wide!

As in, it's open now. I've posted for Erebemin & the menfolk, and an other just-in-case (I'll probably put a Mellonin post there of some sort if it doesn't get used for something else.) Did I remember all the menfolk? Uneasy feeling that I forgot somebody... please pipe up if so!!!

New characters, dive in as inspired.



Edit-- and ladies, dream away!

For my own sanity:

Celuien: Sæthryd
Firefoot: Rugh
Fea: Eledhwen (Indil )
Formendacil: Bergil; Elessar
lmp: Raefindan, Ædegard, Tharonwe, Jorje
Alak: Erebemlin, Taitheneb
Nuru: Liornung, Leafa
Immy: Aeron, Gwyllion's shade
Aylwen: Bella
Orual: Ravion
mark12_30: Mellondu/Amroth, Mellonin, Nethwador
Characters played at will: Nimrodel, Mithrellas, Marigold

[Firefoot]

So for those of us who wrote first posts, should we put those up now?

[mark12_30]

Yes!

[Celuien]

I was just thinking...my character is hiding up in the mountains, so I was going to wait to transfer my first post to the game thread until after the ladies have started out in her direction. Does that sound okay with everyone?

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

Haha, I just thought this was cute...

One. Two. Three. He counted the steps until he lost count and had to begin again. And again.

That's what I do when I run a race.

Anyway...right, so, I'll start on a post as soon as I'm done with my homework. Yeah.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Celuien

I was just thinking...my character is hiding up in the mountains, so I was going to wait to transfer my first post to the game thread until after the ladies have started out in her direction. Does that sound okay with everyone?

No problem! Just don't be left out of the general fun....

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm trying to think of who it would be best to have find Eledhwen. Any suggestions?

[mark12_30]

How about Bergil?

lmp might be able to come up with some Raefindan-oriented, Roy-Edwards-rooted, Imrazor-infused doom-dream-destiny thing...

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

How about Bergil?

lmp might be able to come up with some Raefindan-oriented, Roy-Edwards-rooted, Imrazor-infused doom-dream-destiny thing...

Regarding Bergil...

I think (and if I recall, Alak and I discussed this briefly a while back), that he is best introduced at some point on the road. We mentioned the possibility of him being sent by Elessar either in response the escape of Tharonwë or the disappearance of the young ladies (undoubtedly made known by Mellonin's parents).

I think that either/both of these makes for excellent grounds for Bergil's entrance into the story, but I'm hesitant on the grounds of "well, do we want the menfolk to know that? Because surely they'd try and do something" in the case of the ladies, and "well, then they'd be on their guard" in the case of Tharonwë.

Anyway...

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[mark12_30]

I was just thinking, if Bergil was rangering in South Ithilien (or South Gondor) and happened across a little girl out in the wild, what would he do?

...don't mind me. I haven't reread Eledhwen's bio recently enough to remember where she lives. Guess I should go do my homework.

Edit: Right, everyone knows she lives in Imloth Melui. Pardon me while i scramble for my atlas.

Uhhh... Fea? Can't find it. Please advise?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Edit: Right, everyone knows she lives in Imloth Melui. Pardon me while i scramble for my atlas.

'tis in Lossarnach- which IS on the official maps, so you can find that. Beyond that, the exact location of Imloth Melui is not known.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

I was just thinking, if Bergil was rangering in South Ithilien (or South Gondor) and happened across a little girl out in the wild, what would he do?

I would think that he would try to get her out of the wild in as little amount a time as possible.

Since Eledhwen's family would be somewhere between Minas Tirith and Imloth Melui (Lossarnach area), on her way home, I'd place her, when introduced, less than a day's ride south and maybe a bit west of Minas Tirith. Maybe halfway between the upper parts of the Erui and Anduin.

If the men are following the road south, they might find her, or if Bergil, southern Ranger that he is, found her first, the men and Bergil might meet on the road, him taking the little girl to Minas Tirith/Anor, them riding yonder-in-that-direction-in-which-they're-going...

She could fall asleep and dream before they split back up, or one of the Elves could see a mark of fate (you know, fun stuff like that) on her? If this wandering group want to keep her around, would Bergil just leave her?

*thinking aloud*

I'll let other people think. I need to go write about Dostoyevsky now.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

lmp might be able to come up with some Raefindan-oriented, Roy-Edwards-rooted, Imrazor-infused doom-dream-destiny thing...

Sheesh.

I was thinking the men would probably find Eleðwen on the road south. But that's just me.

Jorje will be re-entering the story at some point, at the bidding of the River Daughter (now, what's her name?) LMP scratches head.

[mark12_30]

Either way.

I'm charmed by the Bergil-Eledhwen possibility and I like Fea's ideas regarding it.

But they're your characters!

Meanwhile-- Marigold sends Jorje to find-- Raefindan?

Erebemlin?

Both?

Is he a River-Daughter's Doggie now, with some special something? That Jorje, he just has an air about him.

AWOOOOOOO sniff sniff AWOOOOOOOO sniff, galooop galooop galooop AWOOOOOOOO

Look at them floppy ears go!

Edit one: .....Uh-- Bergil's gonna need a horse. Drat! Why'd we ask Elessar for just two!!!

Edit two: also charmed by the idea of Marigold sending Jorjeafter Erebemlin, at least partly. Can you imagine-- Erebemlin the ancient, stern and sleekly aloof, gradually softened and mellowed by a short-lived drooly wet-nosed dawg?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Meanwhile-- Marigold sends Jorje to find-- Raefindan? Erebemlin? Both? Is he a River-Daughter's Doggie now, with some special something? That Jorje, he just has an air about him.

AWOOOOOOO sniff sniff AWOOOOOOOO sniff, galooop galooop galooop AWOOOOOOOO

Look at them floppy ears go!

Edit two: also charmed by the idea of Marigold sending Jorjeafter Erebemlin, at least partly. Can you imagine-- Erebemlin the ancient, stern and sleekly aloof, gradually softened and mellowed by a short-lived drooly wet-nosed dawg?

Hmmm...... I hadn't really thought about why she's sending him, I just want to write him. Marigold is not the selfish type. Whereas she is aware of Erebemlin's feelings toward her, her 'attitude' toward him is 'agapé' rather than 'eros'. ... which does not make union out of the question since the former is a higher love than the latter anyway. Be that as it may, Jorje is being sent with some special assignment, but I don't know what it is yet. Yes, Raefindan sort of became his master, but Jorje's mistress is now Marigold. How will a dog deal wiht a not-his-pack whilst his own 'pack' is at such a great distance, consisting of two? I don't know. For a dog, friends are for life, so Jorje's notion of 'pack' may be inclusive rather than exclusive. I'll keep thunkin'. Frankly, I'd almost like to kill of Ædegard so I can concentrate on Jorje.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Edit one: .....Uh-- Bergil's gonna need a horse. Drat! Why'd we ask Elessar for just two!!!

Whatever we decide to do with Bergil's introduction, that is easily handled. This guy's a soldier of Faramir, Prince of Ithilien, Steward of Gondor. 'twill be easy enough to have him find a horse, if not to be on one at the beginning of the story. It's just a matter of deciding WHEN he's introduced, and WHY, and then I can set to work explaining HOW he's got a horse.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

K... Bergil v. The Guys. Match of the year. Who wants to find lil Indil??

[Imladris]

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but since they are not using Elessar's horses then why couldn't Bergil use one of them...?

[alaklondewen]

Hallelujah, I'm back online with my very own computer! God is good.

Let me get all the way caught up and get my juices flowing and I'll get to work on the elves.

~one happy Alak

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by alaklondewen

Hallelujah, I'm back online with my very own computer! God is good.

Let me get all the way caught up and get my juices flowing and I'll get to work on the elves.

~one happy Alak

WOOOOOT WOOT WOOT WAHOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Here--wait, I have a couple of things to give you. Lemme see, where'd they go-- ah. Here's an Erebemlin and here-- a Taitheneb! ALL YOURS!!!

Originally Posted by Imladris

Forgive me if I'm being dense, but since they are not using Elessar's horses then why couldn't Bergil use one of them...?

They mounted up just outside the gate. They're riding south now.

Originally Posted by lmp

Frankly, I'd almost like to kill of Ædegard so I can concentrate on Jorje.

I dunno, would Ædegard be of more use to the story as a one-handed guy or as a one-handed ghost? And who would pine after Leafa? Liornung would have to be her big brother all over again. I s'pose Ædegard could haunt the mountain passes... make Saethryd nervous. Push Rugh around. Could be fun.

I saw Nuru lurking. Post, girl! And somebody give Orual a poke...

[Imladris]

They mounted up just outside the gate. They're riding south now.

Oh. I see. I missed that part...obviously.

My apologies.

[mark12_30]

No worries, girl!

I've been enjoying rereading the last couple pages of the older thread. Aeron's been doing some growing, and some thinking. Good stuff.

[Celuien]

Saethryd will be most happy to (un)welcome any visitors. Including Jorje.

[mark12_30]

Celuien-- looking forward to Saethryd's welcome. Eeeeeyipe!

Nuru is lurking again! Hiya, girl! How goes it??

[Nurumaiel]

Helen, you caught me!

I'm going back and forth between studying and reading the thread, listening to some good old Irish music whilst doing both. I've realised that I need to go through all my Irish and Scottish CDs to familiarise myself with Liornung's character once again.

I'm thrilled about the second book starting up. It's going to be grand to play with all the oldies once again, and equally grand to work with all the new members of the group.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

I dunno, would Ædegard be of more use to the story as a one-handed guy or as a one-handed ghost? And who would pine after Leafa? Liornung would have to be her big brother all over again. I s'pose Ædegard could haunt the mountain passes...

Oh, that was off the cuff. Although I had originally planned on him dying. Every attempt at killing him off just didn't work out. It's like he's destined to survive or something.....

Sæthryd better be nice to Jorje.

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

Is it okay if my post brings it to the next morning? Should I wait a bit or change mine?

[mark12_30]

Anyone else wants archery lessons let me know.

Alak, I've got plans for this archery thing... drop me a line for details if you'd like/ when you're ready.

It's hard for me to make a shift from Mellondu, Taitheneb and Erebemlin, to Mellondu only. Can you tell?

I forget whether Nethwador can shoot or not... must go look it up.

Rohirrim-- well, actually, I guess Ædegard can't shoot! Poor Ædegard-- but does Liornung want lessons too?

Does Aeron? Whoa, Aeron getting skilled with a bow-- together with his thieving skills, we'd have something dangerous!

[mark12_30]

Whups Aylwen, we cross-posted. I have no objections to going to next morning-- I can take the menfolk to "tomorrow" if need be. If anyone else needs mroe time, Aylwen, we can just leapfrog as usual. Go ahead and post.

[mark12_30]

For my own future sanity: Nethwador's first wild-boy appearance by the stream, soon to be tamed by Amroth & co

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

If the men are following the road south, they might find her, or if Bergil, southern Ranger that he is, found her first, the men and Bergil might meet on the road, him taking the little girl to Minas Tirith/Anor, them riding yonder-in-that-direction-in-which-they're-going...

She could fall asleep and dream before they split back up, or one of the Elves could see a mark of fate (you know, fun stuff like that) on her? If this wandering group want to keep her around, would Bergil just leave her?

How about..... Bergil is by the side of the road, pondering what to do with this mysterious and lost little girl-- and the menfolk ride up, and Raefindan is thereby haunted. Or fated or doomed or, well, you know. And the elves can chime in.

How about-- at that point-- Bergil, sensing some sort of doom on his own part, gallops off to find his commander, and gets permission to join the quest, and comes galloping back? Trying to think like a soldier here-- wouldn't want him accused of desertion, you know.

[mark12_30]

Golly. I'm sure doing a lot of talking. Makes me look like a chatterbox.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

How about-- at that point-- Bergil, sensing some sort of doom on his own part, gallops off to find his commander, and gets permission to join the quest, and comes galloping back? Trying to think like a soldier here-- wouldn't want him accused of desertion, you know.

The thing about being a Ranger (this is my reading here, not official in any sense) is that if Bergil is on his own at the time of finding Eledhwen, then he's probably got a certain amount of discretion with regards to where and how he fulfills he duty to protect the realm.

The way I've taken to picturing the Rangers (particularly those of Arnor, but I think applicable to those of Gondor as well) is that they are essentially independent agents, until and unless they should be called up.

Alternatively, if one sees the Rangers as being a bit more of a "company", then the issue is easily sidestepped by Bergil being on leave at the time of finding Eledhwen (possibly making his way to family in Lossarnach at the time? We know Bergil's grandfather dwelt there), and upon being embroiled in these great matters, he sends off a letter to his superiors informing them of what he's up to (so as not to expect him back soon). I'm sure a Ranger would have enough leeway that his normal patrol could be swiftly reassigned when he didn't show up after leave, and as the son of Beregond, Captain of the White Guard, and personal friend of Prince Faramir, I think Bergil would be able to pull a few strings, even if the hierarchy were inclined to be disapproving.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

How about..... Bergil is by the side of the road, pondering what to do with this mysterious and lost little girl-- and the menfolk ride up, and Raefindan is thereby haunted. Or fated or doomed or, well, you know. And the elves can chime in.

How about-- at that point-- Bergil, sensing some sort of doom on his own part, gallops off to find his commander, and gets permission to join the quest, and comes galloping back? Trying to think like a soldier here-- wouldn't want him accused of desertion, you know.

I'm a fan of this.

Only issue, and this might be sidestepped by the issue of the Elves' presence: she's a little girl, by herself, in the company of a bunch of guys.

If they wouldn't let grown women travel with them, surely they'd have trouble with the concept of a lone little girl?

*pondering*

What if...

How were the guys going to find out about the women leaving again? Gwyllion? Might Gwyll speak through Indil, and then... something?

Once the women are involved again, it shouldn't be much of a problem, but if everyone is that paranoid about the propriety of unchaperoned and travelling women...

[Celuien]

If they wouldn't let grown women travel with them, surely they'd have trouble with the concept of a lone little girl?

I suppose there would be fewer objections to a 5-year-old under the guardianship of a bunch of guys than unsupervised grown women hanging around with a bunch of also unsupervised guys to whom they are not wed.

(So long as the guys don't mind babysitting. )

EDIT: The main objection I can think of is that a small child might not do well on the road and that if the group isn't far from Minas Tirith, that they might prefer to deliver her to someone in the city for, well, babysitting.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Celuien

a 5-year-old under the guardianship of a bunch of guys

But none of them are related to her...

[mark12_30]

Here's the thing: (to be blunt)-- us 21'st century folk are thinking 'child abuse', because it's in the public eye more than it ever was. Whereas this wouldn't even cross the mind of Tolkien's generation. Think WW2 vets, or closer still, WW1 vets. Big brothers, or even dads.

"Where are you from, honey?"

"Dat way." Pointing south.

"Well, let's get you home. Do you have cousins?"

"Yup. Inna forest."

"Let's go find them, shall we?"

The only problem with this (now that I squint at the map) is that Lossarnach is tucked right under Mindolluin. Bummer. So they'd find her cousins in a day or two, drop her off, and that's the end of it.

(Can't she be from Pelargir, or Lebennin, instead?)

How were the guys going to find out about the women leaving again? Gwyllion? Might Gwyll speak through Indil, and then... something?

Me likey.

Once the women are involved again, it shouldn't be much of a problem, but if everyone is that paranoid about the propriety of unchaperoned and travelling women...

It'll be a Looooooong way til the menfolk are re-united with the womenfolk. Much travail & cold in the mountains, etc. Can't count on them.

I think it's better that Bergil chooses to escort her back home-- and falls in with a large group of elves & men, because there's safety (especially for a little girl) in numbers. So I'm back to pleading for Pelargir or Lebannin or someplace near Edhellond/ Dol Amroth. How about a 'suburb' of Dol Amroth?

Formendacil-- OK, sounds well thought-out. Sending a ltter back home (or something) makes good sense. And have I told you yet-- your title is hilarious?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

How were the guys going to find out about the women leaving again? Gwyllion? Might Gwyll speak through Indil, and then... something?

Whoa....

We WANT the guys to know that the women have left?

That solves the problem of Bergil's entry into the story and permission to be there:

Girls leave Minas Tirith.

Mellonin's parents report this to the Steward.

Rangers are sent out from city.

Bergil goes south (and, being alone, will eventually overtake Erebemlin et al).

Bergil meets Eledhwen on the road (whither she's wandered a day or two AFTER Erebemlin et al have gone by).

Being a mere five year old, it's impossible to get straight directions out of her.

Deciding the safest thing to do is to take her with him, and leave her in the care of someone further along the way, Bergil takes the girl with him.

Bergil and Eledhwen catch up to the Company.

Raefindan has some sort of weird recognition/deja vu thing regarding Eledhwen. It is decided to take her with them. The Company learns of Bergil's mission- and of the departure of the womenfolk.

That resolves it all rather neatly... I was under the impression that we DIDN'T want the menfolk to find out the womenfolk had left- but if we DO want them to find out, I'm very much in favour.

[mark12_30]

Okay, Formendacil of the seriously hilarious title...

Yes, I like it. But there's something unsettling about letting the men know for certain-- via messenger-- rather than shadowy suspicions that grow over time-- via dreams and impressions. A growing uneasiness would be less likely to make 2/3 the company turn around and go back. (Ædegard, Liornung, Ravion, Raefindan, Nethwador, Mellondu would all be inclined. Only Taitheneb and Erebemlin would wholeheartedly continue south.)

With a clear message that the women are missing, and the group only out a day or four from the city, all but the elves would go north again-- or be very seriously torn about it. So either we have a bickering and divided company of men, or, we need to delay the news til they can hope to find the women on the south side of the mountains. So I'm thinking the women then have to leave late enough, and Bergil would have to leave late enough, so that it's too late for the men to turn around and go back. So that will stretch the ladies' plot out a bit more, methinks.