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#121 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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The final LotR thread is up and we have managed to finish this project before 2005 ends! I hope there will be some posting on the Appendix F thread.
Congratulations to us all on an interesting project; special thanks to Fordim for initiating it, and an additional special thanks to davem and Lalwendë, who are, as far as I am aware, the only forum members besides myself to post on each and every thread!! It took me a little longer to prepare the Appendices threads than I originally thought; thorough reading revealed more substance than I recalled from previous skimming. I look forward to discussing The Hobbit with many of you in the coming year; I plan to begin with the first chapter in mid-January.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#122 |
Illustrious Ulair
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: In the home of lost causes, and forsaken beliefs, and unpopular names,and impossible loyalties
Posts: 4,240
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Well, its over. (As Sam might have said).
I don't think I'll be joining in The Hobbit disscussion. Without opening up old wounds ![]() Its either a wonderful children's book when taken for itself, & I'm not sure its possible to analyse it in the way we have LotR. With LotR you can peel away layer after layer & find new depths of meaning & relevance. With TH I fear it would be more like 'breaking a thing to find out what it is made of... Or, its an 'essay in the craft' which like the productions of the Elven Smiths of Eregion leading to the creation of the Three, led to the creation of LotR. The existence of LotR does away with the necessity of TH as a part of the Legendarium, because all the themes & issues it deals with are dealt with more profoundly & effectively in LotR. The Hobbits of LotR & their world exist because of TH. The Three exist because of those 'essays in the craft - but what happened to them is not known, because they aren't relevant to the big picture. In short, if its a (great) children's book - which I think it is - we risk ending up pulling it to pieces & ending up like the people in the Beowulf essay allegory with a pile of old stones & no means to look out upon the Sea, & if we treat it as a part of the Legendarium we won't have much to say about its meaning & themes which we haven't said in our CbC discussion of LotR. Or I could be completely wrong.... I look forward to reading the discussion. |
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#123 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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![]() But there is always time to add some new points to old threads - there may even be more time to go back and revisit them now. ![]()
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Gordon's alive!
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#124 |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,992
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While I'm sure we are all proud that the discussion did prevail and continue to the conclusion of the book, I think special commendations are called for. Estelyn's work in setting up week by week by week (even planning around her holidays and absences) the discussions and guiding the threads has been outstanding. Without her diligence and enthusiasm for the project, I doubt it would have continued.
![]() Well done, good and faithful servant! (Well, we are the dead, right?) ![]()
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#125 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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Thanks for the roses! (I hope you came to praise me, not to bury me!
![]() This weekend we will begin the chapter-by-chapter discussions of The Hobbit. I may be opening the new thread earlier than Monday; Sunday was often my best day for posting on the LotR discussions, and depending upon my real life schedule, some threads will be up earlier than that. I hope many of you will join in; these chapters are usually shorter and faster reading than LotR, so it should be easier to keep up. I look forward to an enjoyable time!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#126 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: At The Golden Perch enjoying the best pint in the East Farthing!
Posts: 68
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This may be off topic but I was wondering if there are any plans to read the Sil after The Hobbit is completed. I have many questions about the Sil and would enjoy discussing it chapter by chapter.
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YOU shall not pass!! Even the smallest person can change the course of the future... |
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#127 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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I think there are enough members interested to make the Sil a worthwhile CbC discussion. Whether or not I will be the one opening the introductory threads I don't yet know. The Hobbit discussions should take us to late spring or early summer; after that we shall see how much interest there still is.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#128 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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I'm sorry for those few who are anxiously awaiting the begin of the next chapter discussion of The Hobbit, but a painful finger injury (small but severe burn) is keeping me from typing more than the briefest of lines today. I hope it will be better tomorrow so that I can post then.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#129 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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I have found an online source which shows Tolkien's own drawings for The Hobbit, for those of you who do not have them for reference:
Tolkien Hobbit pictures Enjoy!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#130 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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The CbC Hobbit discussions, which are moving very slowly right now anyway, will have a break for the Easter weekend. The next chapter thread will be posted sometime next week. For those who have time, there's still lots to discuss on the existing threads!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#131 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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The Chapter 14 thread is open for discussion, just in case it has escaped your notice!
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#132 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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This week's discussion concludes The Hobbit. Thanks to those of you who participated! The threads remain open for all who want to join in later.
Is there still enough interest in these discussions for the Silmarillion? If so, Aiwendil is willing to contribute his expertise and write the introductory posts. I look forward to reading them and to posting occasionally.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#133 | |
Dead Serious
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Quote:
Maybe the greater (slightly) obscurity of the work will work in its favour. ![]()
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I prefer history, true or feigned.
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#134 |
Guest
Posts: n/a
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I was unable to access my account here for several months, and couldn't post for The Hobbit readings. I'm planning on being here for the Silmarillion readings.
Thanks to Estelyn and all you other folk who keep these discussions going. It is a labor of love, but a labor, nonetheless! Cloudberry |
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#135 |
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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Count me in for any venture into the Silmarillion.
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#136 |
Face in the Water
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 728
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I would also be interested in doing the Sil, though I suspect my head would regret it...
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#137 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: At The Golden Perch enjoying the best pint in the East Farthing!
Posts: 68
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I would be thoroughly interested in a chapter by chapter read of the Silm. It is becoming one of my favourite books by Tolkien. Who will lead us through it?
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YOU shall not pass!! Even the smallest person can change the course of the future... |
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#138 |
Princess of Skwerlz
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: where the Sea is eastwards (WtR: 6060 miles)
Posts: 7,500
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Aiwendil is the "designated driver mod" for the Sil discussions. I don't know just when he intends to begin them.
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'Mercy!' cried Gandalf. 'If the giving of information is to be the cure of your inquisitiveness, I shall spend all the rest of my days in answering you. What more do you want to know?' 'The whole history of Middle-earth...' |
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#139 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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I'm sorry that I haven't been that communicative about this. Summer has proven quite busy. I've been thinking that perhaps it would be best to start in early September (if there's still enough interest); I imagine this might be better for some people as there won't be conflicts with vacations and such.
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#140 |
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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If I don't show up in September, please know that I will in October. September is looking like a very busy month.
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#141 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: At The Golden Perch enjoying the best pint in the East Farthing!
Posts: 68
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Sounds good to me. I am in the process of reading LotR at the moment and I should be done by then. See you in September!!
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YOU shall not pass!! Even the smallest person can change the course of the future... |
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#142 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Silmarillion Chapter by Chapter
Provided there is still interest, I'm about ready to start the Silmarillion chapter by chapter discussion. I aim to have the Ainulindale intro up and the discussion started this weekend (i.e. September 9 - 10).
The Silmarillion discussion presents some interesting challenges not encountered in the previous discussions. As I see it there are two issues: 1. Each chapter of the Silmarillion covers significantly more plot than a chapter of LotR or The Hobbit. 2. The Silmarillion's unique history makes it less practicable to consider only the text as finally published. I'm open to suggestions on how to deal with these issues. My thoughts for the moment are: 1A. We may want to allow a longer time (i.e. longer than one week) for each discussion before beginning the following chapter. 1B. Another possibility is to further sub-divide the chapters (particularly the later ones). 2. I wish to encourage, in addition to direct discussion of the chapter as found in the published Silmarillion, discussion of the history of each tale (i.e. of related material in UT and HoMe). But I certainly don't want to frighten off readers unfamiliar with the additional material. I plan to include a list of references in UT and HoMe for each chapter, and also to give a short introductory note on the textual evolution of each chapter. Does this sound like a good idea or might it be too intimidating? I'd appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. |
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#143 |
Haunting Spirit
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: At The Golden Perch enjoying the best pint in the East Farthing!
Posts: 68
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I think if UT and HoME were included I think it would be more daunting of a task not only to the readers but to you also. But I can also see your point of including those books. I also think that it would be quite intimidating to readers not as knowledgeable as some of the more experienced readers here. I think the easiest solution that you gave would be to allow a longer time between chapters.
I am still very, very interested in the cbc of The Silm.
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YOU shall not pass!! Even the smallest person can change the course of the future... |
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#144 |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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I second longer time; two weeks (or even three) could be okay.
I wouldn't include the Ut or the HoME in the official CbC - nothing prevents individual members still referring to them.
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Like the stars chase the sun, over the glowing hill I will conquer Blood is running deep, some things never sleep Double Fenris
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#145 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Aiwendil - I'm looking forwards to this, especially as you're knowledgeable on the Sil! I've been wanting to examine it in more depth for a while and improve my own understanding.
Now I would also second the call for a longer period than a week to consider chapters, and would also welcome chapter breakdowns - say half a chapter a fortnight in some cases, as it is such a dense text with so many refereences to consider - and work is also very intense for me too right now! Not scared of using HoME as there's some fascianting stuff about how the ethos of the Sil changed with the years and its interesting to get to the original sources and find what remained!
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Gordon's alive!
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#146 |
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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While I don't have a complete set of HoME, I also would opt for references at least to the texts in UT and HoME, so that that we know where to find additional material and earlier versions etc. I also agree that a slower pace would be a good thing here, as the Silm sometimes strikes me as an outline for a very large series!
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#147 | |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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Quote:
Oh never mind.... ![]()
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Gordon's alive!
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#148 | |
Cryptic Aura
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
I'm looking forward to following this discussion, if not joining in. I think a longer period of time might be suitable, but a period longer than two weeks for each section under discussion might be at risk of losing people, as once they've posted their main ideas, they might lose the habit of keeping up, so to speak. Brisk moving threads seem to keep people interested--as long as they aren't too fast! Sub-division a good idea. I don't think including reference from UT and HoMe would be intimidating. Boring maybe, but not intimidating. ![]() ![]()
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I’ll sing his roots off. I’ll sing a wind up and blow leaf and branch away. |
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#149 |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,743
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I think Bb's right -- more frequent threads and smaller chunks might be the way to go, though I haven't looked at the text to see if there's an easy way of accomplishing that. The challenge here will be to get everyone on the same page, literally.
Also, from a "marketing" standpoint, here's another two cents: I think shooting for the weekend after the coming weekend at the earliest would be best. It would give time to post an Announcement and build some awareness before the project rolls. Also, a lot of people start school up again this week; might be better to let them settle in first (not to mention that it will give us time to iron out the technical details). I like the idea of HoME and UT references in the intro posts. |
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#150 | |
Eagle of the Star
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Sarmisegethuza
Posts: 1,058
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#151 |
A Mere Boggart
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: under the bed
Posts: 4,737
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And Oxonmoot is on 15th - 17th, too, so please don't start then.
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Gordon's alive!
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#152 | |||
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Playing in Peoria
Posts: 35
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If suggestions from a mostly-lurker may be entertained:
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How about this: each chapter is open-ended, with the moderator announcing two or three days in advance that, since discussion seems to be drawing to a close, the new chapter will be posted on... Quote:
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I have only read UT, so don't know what Silm material is included in the other volumes of HoME, but I know that the stuff from UT was either totally fascinating (the complete Fall of Gondolin, or the creation of the sun and moon), or failed completely to hold my interest (the evolution of the story of Earendil, for instance). I know that everyone's experience is different, and therefore encourage the inclusion of source material and "historical" refrences as part of the discussion. Thanks for listening.
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Bado go Eru, Aldarion |
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#153 | |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Mister Underhill wrote:
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I'm inclined to try a two week discussion period. Longer than this would certainly not be advisable. But I see no reason that the length must be set in stone at the outset. If two weeks proves too long, it can be reduced. |
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#154 |
Dread Horseman
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Behind you!
Posts: 2,743
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Sounds good. I'll throw an announcement up today. Aiwendil, I think I've set you up to be able to start threads in CbC -- check on that if you would. We'll also have to set the naming conventions for the threads.
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#155 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Playing in Peoria
Posts: 35
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Super Geek Recommendation
What about starting on the 15th, and catching the anniversary of the Silmarillion's publishing date?
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Bado go Eru, Aldarion |
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#156 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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The first Silmarillion discussion will be opened shortly. I hope this is not a problem for those attending Oxonmoot; in any case, the next discussion is not set to start until two weeks from today, which should give everyone who's interested time to participate in the Ainulindale.
I will be including some comments on the textual history of each chapter, as well as some references to Unfinished Tales (UT) and The History of Middle-earth (HoMe) for those who are interested in reading more. Please note: these additional readings are not required for participation! I hope that the discussions will appeal to first time readers of the Silmarillion just as much as to venerable HoMe scholars. |
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#157 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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I thought that with the Silmarillion discussion now well underway, it might be good to check in with people for any feedback or suggestions. What do you think of the two week time period? It seemed about right to me for the Ainulindale and Valaquenta discussions, but QS chapters 1 and 2 have so far been much quieter (though ch. 2 is, after all, pretty slight). What do others think?
Is there anything else in the way of feedback or suggestions? Anything I could be doing to improve the discussions? (Not that I'm not happy with them so far). |
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#158 |
Late Istar
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 2,224
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Due to the general business of the end of the semester, the opening of the next discussion will be delayed until late next week. Judging by the activity level of the last few discussions, this will not be of much import to anyone, but I just thought I should let you know.
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#159 |
Relic of Wandering Days
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: You'll See Perpetual Change.
Posts: 1,480
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Aiwendil, just wanted to let you know that though I have not been able to post on the threads, I am still following along albeit at a delayed rate, and hope to catch up before the end. My apologies for the silence.
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#160 | |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Vsetin Czech Republic
Posts: 36
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Only when you lose can you really know what it is exactly that you know Last edited by Břicho; 01-14-2007 at 09:13 AM. |
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