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[Pervinca Took]

Great clues from Mithalwen, and some rare elvish knowledge from herself and Galadriel.

Mormegil - Glimmer fractures around a sigh for lethal epesse.
Imrazor - Numenorean declares himself a blade.
Tharbad - Heart breaks and loses direction. No good follows here.
Halbarad - Dour and doomed standardbearer.
Lomelind - Highelven nightingale.
Osgiliath - I host Gail at place with broken spanner.
Nerdanel - Elder Nan to Celebrimbor at least.
Damrod - Sounds like a cursed wand ranging in Ithilien.

Indeed..all done and dusted in three hours . Could be a record..

Time for it to be broken, then. Here goes:


1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
2. Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
3. Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
4. Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
6. Alex’s companion reforms before an untimely demise.
7. Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
8. Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

[Galadriel55]

2. Urwen (I admit to have shamelessly trawled the online thesaususes - thesauri? thesaura? screw Latin plurals.)

How is (1) from the previous one Mormegil though? I don't get it.

Edit: 3. Mithrandir

[Mithalwen]

Mormegil is an anagram of glimmer plus O ( a sigh). Mormrgil means black sword and was Turins epesse.

[Mithalwen]

Could 4 be Gollum?
I wonder if eight is Nobottle again.

[Nerwen]

Is 7 by any chance “Eglantine" (Banks)?

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

2. Urwen (I admit to have shamelessly trawled the online thesaususes - thesauri? thesaura? screw Latin plurals.)

How is (1) from the previous one Mormegil though? I don't get it.

Edit: 3. Mithrandir

1. Yes - URN with the pronoun WE hidden in it.

3. Yes - sounds like MYTH + RAN + DEAR. The tempestuous echo is MIRANDA from "The Tempest." (Technically "expensively" should be "dearly," but it very often gets colloquially shortened to "dear" and was slightly less obvious that way).

8. Yes, "place where hobbits' courage fails them" is NOBOTTLE again.

4. No, 4 isn't Gollum. (Although reading the clue again, Gollum is a very good answer. But not the right one for the password).

is 7 by any chance “Eglantine" (Banks)?

Indeed it is - and you need the surname as well for the answer. I nearly went back and edited it to "Literary Prioress invests to become Tookish consort."

In the General Prologue to the Canterbury Tales, Chaucer says of the Prioress:

"And she was cleped Madam Eglantyne."

Banks = invests.

Eglantine Banks married the Thain (or future Thain, not sure of dates), which makes her as near a royal consort as the Shire has.

So ...

1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
4. Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
6. Alex’s companion reforms before an untimely demise.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

[Mithalwen]

Since my uncertain guess at Gollum is wrong I will be a glutton for punishment and offer Tumladen for the password. Even if right it isnt inspiring me on the other clues...

[Pervinca Took]

TUMLADEN is correct.

T 1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
L 4. Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
A 5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
D 6. Alex’s companion reforms before an untimely demise.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.[/QUOTE]

[Pervinca Took]

Should I post a clue to any of these? Are there any that you have thoughts on that I could give further clues for?

[Nerwen]

Is #4 “Lotho”? – “Lo!” and/or "O!” for the exclamation, “loth” for the unwillingness. He was the victim of his own greed, and Saruman suggested Wormtongue had actually eaten him.

[Mithalwen]

Oh that would make sense. Baffled.

[Pervinca Took]

T 1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
LOTHO: Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
A 5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
D 6. Alex’s companion reforms for the father of an Elf-Friend.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Is #4 “Lotho”? – “Lo!” and/or "O!” for the exclamation, “loth” for the unwillingness. He was the victim of his own greed, and Saruman suggested Wormtongue had actually eaten him.

Yes, Lotho is correct. Just LOTH (unwilling) plus O (exclamation). And as Saruman said, "Worm killed Lotho ... Buried him, I hope, although Worm has been very hungry lately." (Ewww).

They all make sense. One or two are a little obscure, that is all. I was trying to make some of them a little more challenging this time.

I have made clue 6 easier, and it refers to another famous piece of C20th literature.

On clue 1, "forces back the mob" is the cryptic bit. "One rarely privileged" is the answer/straight part.

5. Think of a thespian establishment. Spoil it to get a place. Then the "doubly spoiled" bit will make sense.

[Nerwen]

Oh, I think I get #6 now. “Drogo”, right? (Frodo’s father and also an anagram of “droog”.)

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Oh, I think I get #6 now. “Drogo”, right? (Frodo’s father and also an anagram of “droog”.)

Yes indeed. "There was me, Alex, and my three droogs," (George, Dim and the other one). Anthony Burgess's "A Clockwork Orange."

Just recopying my notes from the last post as I did some of them in an edit, so Mithalwen's Kindle might not pick them up. I'll put them in italics:

Yes, Lotho is correct. Just LOTH (unwilling) plus O (exclamation). And as Saruman said, "Worm killed Lotho ... Buried him, I hope, although Worm has been very hungry lately." (Ewww).

They all make sense. One or two are a little obscure, that is all. I was trying to make some of them a little more challenging this time.

I have made clue 6 easier, and it refers to another famous piece of C20th literature.

On clue 1, "forces back the mob" is the cryptic bit. "One rarely privileged" is the answer/straight part.

5. Think of a thespian establishment. Spoil it to get a place. Then the "doubly spoiled" bit will make sense.


T 1. One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
LOTHO: Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
A 5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
DROGO: Alex’s companion reforms for the father of an Elf-Friend.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

[Mithalwen]

Oooh Is 1 Tuor, rout backwards? Only man counted among the Eldar. I was way off on 6..was thinking of Alexander the Great and Hephaestion before the hint...

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Oooh Is 1 Tuor, rout backwards? Only man counted among the Eldar. I was way off on 6..was thinking of Alexander the Great and Hephaestion before the hint...

Indeed it is!

TUOR: One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
LOTHO: Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
A 5. Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
DROGO: Alex’s companion reforms for the father of an Elf-Friend.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

And just to wrap things up - for number 5, think thespian training establishment.

[Mithalwen]

OH Arda? Anagram of RADA....

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

OH Arda? Anagram of RADA....

Yes. Spoil RADA to get ARDA. And Arda is famously referred to as "Arda Marred" at the end of The Silmarillion. Hence "doubly spoiled."

Re the "Drogo" clue - the "reforms" bit was both literal and indicating an anagram - Alex and his droogs were criminals, so a character would have to reform, so to speak, to become a respectable hobbit.

TUOR: One rarely privileged forces back the mob.
URWEN: Maiden hides pronoun in a vase.
MITHRANDIR: Legend sprinted expensively, we hear, for an epesse with a tempestuous echo.
LOTHO: Unwilling exclamation for one consumed – perhaps literally – by greed.
ARDA: Doubly spoiled place was a thespian establishment.
DROGO: Alex’s companion reforms for the father of an Elf-Friend.
EGLANTINE BANKS: Prioress invests to become Tookish consort.
NOBOTTLE: Where the hobbits’ courage fails them, perhaps.

Your turn.

[Mithalwen]

1 Aragorn's transport gains article for huntsman's wife.
2 Sick soldier and sailor loses letters for the high hall.
3 Flower in the spotlight loses direction.
4 Home of Ivy League boffins?
5 Where the mariner tarried.

Probably not worth the wait.

[Galadriel55]

1. Vana?
5. Arvernien?

[Mithalwen]

Both correct. I had anither clue for the a but it seemed too fiendush.

[Pervinca Took]

2. Ilmarin? (Deals with sick and sailor - don't know about the soldier though!)

(Vilya?)

There are some (now quite old) T-Shirts around with "Aragorn and Gandalf went in the van" on the front. (With a picture of Gandalf and Aragorn getting in a van).

[Pervinca Took]

3. Is there a river called Limlight? I can remember one of your cryptic clues being a river when I was looking for ages for a flower of the blooming variety. Limelight loses a note.

I can't find any Tolkienian places beginning with Y - Yale fits the clue but has nothing to do with Tolkien, unless it means something in Elvish.

[Mithalwen]

All done. A Marine was in origin a soldier deployed on naval vessels. Yale is the area mear Stock home to the Boffins. It is mentioned in Threes company i think and on the Hobbit family trees.

[Mithalwen]

Oh Limlighy is a tributary of the Anduinw.

[Pervinca Took]

Ah, then the Shire names aren't all listed in the appendices of names in the LOTR (unless I was looking in the wrong place). Great clues anyway. (Especially the puns on boffin and Yale!)

VANA: Aragorn's transport gains article for huntsman's wife.
ILMARIN: Sick soldier and sailor loses letters for the high hall.
LIMLIGHT: Flower in the spotlight loses direction.
YALE: Home of Ivy League boffins?
ARVERNIEN: Where the mariner tarried.


1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
2. Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
4. Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
5. Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
6. Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

It is in the index of my Kindle ed but I have an idea it may have only been picked up in the revised anniversary edition.

Is four Haldir? Anagram of dial and HR

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

It is in the index of my Kindle ed but I have an idea it may have only been picked up in the revised anniversary edition.

Is four Haldir? Anagram of dial and HR

Haldir is correct.

1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
2. Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
5. Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
6. Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

I have a hunch the dwarf names came from the Elder Edda so I will Take a stab at Ori for six because Or could be alternatively and one is sometimes I

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

I have a hunch the dwarf names came from the Elder Edda so I will Take a stab at Ori for six because Or could be alternatively and one is sometimes I

Indeed - OR + I = ORI. I think it was in Carpenter's biography of JRRT that I first learned that the dwarf names in The Hobbit came from the Elder Edda.

1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
2. Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
5. Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

In anagram mde again I will go for Mirabellla for five. Frodo's grandmother a Took by birth and brandybuck by marriage. Braille is mixed up between am reversed.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

In anagram mde again I will go for Mirabellla for five. Frodo's grandmother a Took by birth and brandybuck by marriage. Braille is mixed up between am reversed.

Perfectly correct.

1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
2. Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

[Mithalwen]

Thinking aloud since it has been a while and I am struggling ..I think 2 is a high elven name ending reth because Rethe is March in the Shire Calendar. But I can not work out the crooked cross bit

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Thinking aloud since it has been a while and I am struggling ..I think 2 is a high elven name ending reth because Rethe is March in the Shire Calendar. But I can not work out the crooked cross bit

You are correct that it ends in "reth."

"Crooked" refers to making the word crooked. You just need to find an alternative word for "cross" and make it so.

Huge clue: think very old-fashioned word for cross, appearing in one of Hamlet's ranting speeches to his mother, and in Old English dream poetry ....

[Mithalwen]

Ah Orodretn...how stupid I have just been reeding about the issues about Gil~galad's parentage and I did not even notice because was thinking it would be a female name cos od Elbereth..

I am afraid i have forgotten much Hamlet and never di much old English but I remembered that the cross is called the rood as in Holyrood and suddenly an anagram made so much more sense.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Ah Orodretn...how stupid I have just been reeding about the issues about Gil~galad's parentage and I did not even notice because was thinking it would be a female name cos od Elbereth..

I am afraid i have forgotten much Hamlet and never di much old English but I remembered that the cross is called the rood as in Holyrood and suddenly an anagram made so much more sense.

That's what I find usually happens with cryptic clues. I try to think of all possibilities but it's like there's a solid wall between my eyes and the right one. "Absurdly simple when you know the answer ...."

Correct on Orodreth. And the Hamlet quote is, (after Gertrude's "Have you forgot me?"), Hamlet's brutal answer: "No, by the rood, not so. You are the queen, your husband's brother's wife, and, would it were not so, you are my mother." Although I was thinking more of The Dream Of The Rood.


1. Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
ORODRETH: Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
3. Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
7. A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

So - how about a shot at the password?

[Mithalwen]

Ah vision of the rood floated up from memory but not strongly..yes I had the idea that a crooked cross might be a k...and my other stalling thing is that the last hassomething to do with holbytla because if hobby..but h is no good since I guess the password is Gothmog.

[Mithalwen]

And on that theory is one
Gaffer Gamgee

Gaff + er +(mage +eg) anagram

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

And on that theory is one
Gaffer Gamgee

Gaff + er +(mage +eg) anagram

Brilliant - well done! And correct on Gothmog, of course. So:

GAFFER GAMGEE: Informal home hesitates before example of a wise man disturbed for a rustic chap.
ORODRETH: Crooked cross joins almost completed march in the Shire, to reveal a Calaquendë.
T: Approval heard (or maybe not) in an ancient character reveals a flawed hero.
HALDIR: Escort through Lothlorien? Dial human resources initially, and mingle accordingly.
MIRABELLA: Braille letters in a reversed morning produce an Elf-Friend’s grandmother.
ORI: Alternatively one might find him in the Elder Edda.
G: A liquid enters a leisurely pursuit. A warrior is born.

The last one is not based around hobby/holbytla. It's kind of used for a modern kind of leisurely pursuit, although it could be used for recreation in general.

[Mithalwen]

Yes I couldn't make it work but tend to fixate which stymied me on the password since I was thinking of things ending in or... hmm new fixation gamling because of game but doesnt fit and your clues tend to... ditto Turin for flawed hero...