Still forming your own images of Middle-earth, or stuck with Elijah and co.?

[VanimaEdhel]

Actually, even though I still see the characters as the characters, I've developed an attachment to the actors that played the characters I felt strong emotions for. I saw the Pierce Brosnan Goldeneye last night for the first time - not a big fan of Brosnan's Bond - and Sean Bean plays the villain. I almost cried when he died because, since I always loved and pitied Boromir, I developed similar emotions for Mr. Bean. The same is true for Billy Boyd and Dominic Monaghan. While I don't see any of them as the images I have in my mind, there's a certain attachment to them. Meanwhile, I really respected the character of Legolas in the books. However, I was so underwhelmed with his portrayal in the movies, that I've already developed a bias against Orlando Bloom. He could suddenly blossom into a brilliant actor overnight, and I would still resent him for what he did to a character I liked. Now I did not exactly like that Merry and Pippin were turned into so much comic relief, but the depictions that Monaghan and Boyd gave were believable in spite of some of the actions written into the script. Meanwhile, I thought that Brad Dourif's interpretation of Grima Wormtongue to be a pretty true interpretation, so I now love him as an actor...with the help of his role as Doc Cochran in my favorite show Deadwood. I guess that when the actors portrayed the characters decently - regardless of what the script said - they endeared themselves to me. If they still did not "pull off" the characters, there was a resentment. Do you guys find yourself doing that?

[Araréiel]

Anunia, what country are you in that only just published the book? Beware of translated versions. The old Swedish version was translated into Legolas remembering walking through the forests with his children!! I'd imagine other translations also have errors.

I read the Hobbit right before seeing the first movie (the day the DVD came out!!), which was right before I read the book. And the version of The Hobbit I read had a picture of what looked like John Goodman on the cover. So I had been picturing Bilbo like that, and, while I did know who Frodo was before the movie, I imagined him to look like that as well. I'm reading the book yet again, and have an older-looking character in my head, and for Sam, I see him almost buck-toothed. The movie characters are definitely much more attractive.

I had read up on who Arwen was before the movie, and Liv Tyler ended up looking close to what I had in my head.

And, sorry, but I do see Orlando Bloom as Legolas. While I was so swept away in the story when I first saw the movie, I did later develop a crush on him (should I duck to avoid the tomatoes I'm sure some of you BD-ers are likely to throw now?). However, I do sometimes see him with black hair.....

[Aredhel]

No, don't duck, Araréiel! Orli was wonderful as Legolas. Nevermind the hair color thing. His performance was soft voiced, he was light on his feet as we'd expect Legolas to be, and of course his work with the special effects crew was fantastic. To this day I still can't shake the picture of him hitching a ride, swinging himself up into the saddle in TTT. It was GREAT. I found all the secondary characters in the movies wonderful - and Sir Ian was great as Gandalf. I've got a few itchy points with Elijah, though, and the recharacterization of Faramir irked me greatly.

I didn't use the movies to color my imaginations of Tolkien's world. I already had that in my head. I will say that the scene artists, the armourers, the silversmiths, even the makeup artists all had the same image that I did, and I'm thankful for that.
I still walk in Doriath in my dreams, though. *sigh*

[Araréiel]

Aredhel, he broke I think it was a rib or two filming that shot. Though I'm still trying to figure out if that was a bad MSN article or if they really were stupid enough to have a main character (main as in not easily replaceable-Eowyn was filmed in 6 months, and Arwen in less time I think, but Orli was there the whole time) film such a dangerous scene nearer the end of filming!

I do think the main problem so many people have with him now is that he was a percet character in the books, but sacrified for sex appeal for the film, much as Merry and Pip were sacrificed for comic relief. I understand the PJ was working on such a huge budget, no backing down if film one bombed. Most films, if #1 bombs, just don't make #2. But since they were filmed together, the risk was great, even if it was half the cost of filming three individual movies.

For visual appeal, and to draw in people who would later be fans, Jackson had to take certain concessions. I feel there is very little to laugh at in the books. And to try to make new fans with a movie three hours long would be difficult. Most people cringe at the thought of a three-hour-movie.

Arwen was added in more partially to show the relationship between her and Aragorn (imagine the chemistry between Aragorn and Eowyn, butthen this strange Elf coming in at the end and vapor-lock-smooching Aragorn!-Non-readers would be like, Huh? ***?) and also to appease those morons who think Tolkien is disrespectful of women in not giving more than Eowyn a very active role. Or so I real. But it fits.

A three-hour-movie, all serious, no matter how beautiful the overall scenery and visuals, would be to "dull" for people who haven't read the books and developed an appreciation for Tolkien. Hence the chance of Merry and Pip to comics. But they were so perfectly cast it's forgiveable-almost. At least it's enjoyable!

But with Legolas and the legions of girls who pine away in their little teen-age dreams cheapens him to a great extent. I had a crush on him once, and got over it when I found out Orli was (and still is) dating some girl from the movie Blue Crush (I can't keep interested in a guy who's with someone else). The first time I watched FotR, before the books, I hardly noticed him. I was so into the story as a whole, and I knew that things would be changed. So I watched the DVD again immediately, and was hooked. It wasn't until after reading the books that I noticed Orli, and was actually confused at first since I had pictured Legolas as a dark-blue-eyed, sometimes brown-eyes, Elf with long black hair. Then there he was as a blonde? I go back and forth between liking my version better and liking Orli's version better. My version is brisker, but Orli's version is softer. It depends on my mood.

[VanimaEdhel]

I had a crush on him once, and got over it when I found out Orli was (and still is) dating some girl from the movie Blue Crush (I can't keep interested in a guy who's with someone else).

Well, you shouldn't let someone like Kate Bosworth interfere with who you have a crush on. It's like I tell a lot of the Orlando Bloom fangirls: if they really like how they look, admire away. It is not as though any of them will ever actually be with the person. Then they usually hate me - though by then they're usually upset that I've said he is, in my opinion, a horrible actor so they're mad anyway. And that brings me to my reasoning for my special disapproval of Orlando Bloom and my exclusion of him from my thoughts of who "is" Legolas. I just don't see him as a very talented actor at the moment.

Aredhel, he broke I think it was a rib or two filming that shot. Though I'm still trying to figure out if that was a bad MSN article or if they really were stupid enough to have a main character (main as in not easily replaceable-Eowyn was filmed in 6 months, and Arwen in less time I think, but Orli was there the whole time) film such a dangerous scene nearer the end of filming!

And yes, Bloom did break two ribs falling off of a horse. The horse tripped, Orlando Bloom fell off the horse, landing on a rock, and the Gimli body-double fell off as well, landing on Bloom.

To this day I still can't shake the picture of him hitching a ride, swinging himself up into the saddle in TTT.

I, personally, did not care for that scene. I felt as though it was rather forced, especially as it went against the laws of physics. Elves were lithe, strong, and quick, but they were not completely superhumans, though they were immortal. This shot, in my opinion, made it look as though Elves could fly or something equally as impossible to their kind.

Getting off of the living actors for a second, the scenery was what really made the movie for me. When I was in Madrid, we went and saw Franco's Spanish Civil War Memorial. There is a church carved into the mountain. When I entered, I felt as though I walked into Dwarrowdelf. It looked a great deal like my mental images - and the onscreen images, of the place. Going back to the topic from my tangent, Peter Jackson did a magnificent job with the landscape and surrounding area of Middle Earth. I feel as though the land itself was a character in the movie worthy of mention as much as the people themselves.

[Kitanna]

I saw the FOTR before reading the books so all the characters in FOTR I have visions of them as the actors who played them. Sometimes I see Aragorn and Sam differently, but I don't think I can ever see Boromir other then as Sean Bean and the same goes for Merry and Pippin. However I read TTT before the movie came out and, as strange as this is, I envisioned Eowyn as this tough viking type woman. Buff and strong, but when I saw the movie I was surprised at how skinny and (to me) somewhat frail looking she was. Not that Mirando Otto didn't do a great job, but my whole view of Eowyn changed after seeing the movie. I didn't like her as much as I did in the books.

[Noxomanus]

I haven't got a vision of book-Boromir left,but the character didn't really live with me and Sean Bean did a great job and thus,I don't mind thinking of him as Boromir.

Ian McKellen definitely IS Gandalf as I imagined him and he was a perfect choice. No problem going on there either.

Sam,Merry & Pippin were neat and,in my opinion,severely outshined Frodo. And that's where we meet the problem. Elijah Wood must be the softest,weakest, most homosexual looking (excusez le mot) and chickened Frodo they could have ever chosen. In nothing is he like book Frodo who is merely insecure and uncomfortable at many occasions,rather then s&%*&g his pants every time something nasty comes along. I'm not surprised many movie-goers mistook his relationship with Sam for a homosexual one. All in all, movie-Frodo is an irritating wimp and I'm VERY glad he hasn't replaced my view of book-Frodo.

Everyone else has turned into a mixture of original view and movie-influenced one. Not a bad thing.

[The Saucepan Man]

I'm not surprised many movie-goers mistook his relationship with Sam for a homosexual one.

That particular nasty piece of misinterpretation was around long before the films ever came out. For people who have the inclination to so so, there is sufficient material in the book to view the relationship between Sam and Frodo in that way. Personally, I am glad that they had the courage not to exclude such material from the films.

I have to say that I wasn't a fan of Elijah in the first two films, and indeed throughout much of RotK. Too much eye rolling and falling on his backside for my tastes. And, although I have no problem with a youthful looking Frodo since there is material in the book to justify that, I did feel that he lacked the experience to portray the depth of Frodo's character. However, I can forgive him much for his performance from the "Wheel of Fire" speech through to the Eagle rescue. For me, Elijah's Frodo came of age in those scenes.

[Noxomanus]

Being convincing in the last parts of an in total 9,5 half hour movie does not qualify as good acting in my honest opinion.

[The Saucepan Man]

Being convincing in the last parts of an in total 9,5 half hour movie does not qualify as good acting in my honest opinion.

Well, I personally would not criticise the quality of his acting throughout the three films, simply his realisation of Frodo the character from the books (which is as much, if not moreso, the fault of the script-writers). But since Frodo, in common with many characters in the films, is not the same character as that portrayed in the book, I can live with this (even if I do find his eye-rolling and falling over irritating in parts). But, in those final scenes, I caught clear glimpses of the original Frodo and this, for me, made those scenes even more moving.

Now that I am re-reading the book again, the Frodo in my head has an Elijah-ish quality in terms of his appearance (although he is not identical) but his character remains quite different from the character portrayed by Elijah throughout much of the film trilogy.

[Osse]

Having nestled myself in the lush grass in the shade of that great tree of objectivity, I feel it is finally time for me to stop just reading the posts on this thread and actually contribute! I, like many of you, my esteemed colleagues, am not a fan of Mr. Wood. Indeed one might be so bold to say that master Elijah is my least favourite choice for any character in any of the three films. Now before I go on, Saucie, I know that you feel that the age appearance of Elijah’s Frodo is justified, from both the text and Tolkien’s own musings, however, I still find his appearance most un-hobbitish and immature. It is impossible to look at someone of his appearance and still be given those feeling of youthful, yet deep wisdom that we are given when we imagine the book driven Frodo. Frodo always had an air of knowledge and affluence around him, something that (at least for me) did not come across in Mr. Wood’s portrayal of the character at all.

I know you are not saying that he fits the um… (Can’t be shoes…) hat of the book-Frodo, and you were merely saying that he wasn’t all that bad in the last portions of Return… and I see your point, he certainly did show at least some acting prowess, prowess that I had convinced myself he did not possess in the dying scenes. This however, is by no means redeeming, and listening to the little prat in person makes my skin crawl, and certainly makes any less-harsh feelings I felt towards him fade like mist in the sun.

To be completely honest, I have certainly found myself half pondering what Tolkien would be like for me if the films had not emerged as they had of late. Though they certainly haven’t ruined any of my imaginings, they have certainly made them become more obscure and more difficult to find. I really have to probe to get past the visual portrayals, and whereas in the past I was able to imagine them without the text being fresh in my mind, I now need to have recently read or scanned at least portions of the texts. Others have stated that they felt the films just added to their imaginings and if anything made them stronger, I however feel that at least a part of my private enjoyment has been taken – when the films were non existent, my imaginings were mine and mine alone. – No one on earth imagined anything quite the way I did! This to me was like a private affair with the professor and his writings, and added to the pull of appeal that I felt.

However, minor characters that I hadn’t really formed detailed mental images of, I believe, benefited from the films – though the images weren’t mine, at least they were there!

All in all however, I think seeing Middle Earth and its peoples in such visual splendour was fantastic, and though it has perhaps taken somewhat from my literary experience, it has nonetheless added to my enjoyment of Tolkien’s works… sometimes you have to lose some of what you love in order to really appreciate it.
I wouldn’t have it any other way.

[The Saucepan Man]

It is impossible to look at someone of his appearance and still be given those feeling of youthful, yet deep wisdom that we are given when we imagine the book driven Frodo.

I wouldn't disagree with that, which is why the image that I have is Elijah-ish but not identical.

[mark12_30]

I, personally, did not care for that scene. I felt as though it was rather forced, especially as it went against the laws of physics. Elves were lithe, strong, and quick, but they were not completely superhumans, though they were immortal. This shot, in my opinion, made it look as though Elves could fly or something equally as impossible to their kind.

This opinion surprises me.

In Maine, back in 1979, I knew a lithe, extremely talented cowgirl (named Karen) who had a barrel-racing palomino named Buck. While the horse was standing still, she could swing up onto his saddle one-handed. The motion was similar. (I have pictures of her trail-riding her horse, back in my archives somewhere, but unfortunately have no pictures of this stunt, so my memory will have to suffice: )

To mount, she would stand at Buck's left shoulder facing his haunches, take a step back, holding the horn of the western saddle with one hand, swing her right leg up over the horse's haunches, push off with her standing leg, use her hand to sharply pull her hips onto the saddle, and then the momentum of the kick would bring her upright in the saddle. Then (and only then) she would casually put her feet into the stirrups.

She weighed perhaps ninety pounds. Her horse "Buck" stood at least fifteen hands. It was an impressive-- nay, spectacular sight to see this little slip of a girl go from the ground to the saddle in one smooth motion.

I tried it a few times and succeeded only in seriuosly embarassing myself (and kicking the poor bay mare I was riding.) However, I believe that with practice, improved strength, and timing, I would have eventually been able to do it.

When I saw the Legolas/ Arod stunt, there are three added factors. One, it was "performed" at the canter. Two, he grasped the breastplate, not the saddlehorn. Three, Gimli was a challenging obstacle. Hence, my chief thoughts were that "for the real elf", it would be tricky to catch the breastplate just right at the canter, but that it was plausible; and it would be hard not to kick Gimli right off of the horse.

So while the lovely arc made by his cloak was clearly CGI, other than that, I was easily able to attribute the spectacular timing to Legolas' elvish nature. If Karen could do it at the halt, I suppose an elf could do it at the gallop, even with Gimli there to increase the difficulty.

[The Saucepan Man]

But wasn't Legolas facing forward, away from the horse, at the start of his maneuvre. I don't know whether, objectively, the maneuvre is possible or not, but the way that it is portrayed in the film, it does look physically impossible to me. Having studied it once or twice since the issue was first raised, it looks to me like his arm would have to pass through his body. But then again, I'm no expert in Elven horseman(elf?)ship.

[mark12_30]

I'm going only by my memory here, but I don't think so. I think he was facing forward; reached back with his left hand, caught the breastplate, let the horse pull him into a spin, and then kicked and pulled his hips into the saddle. Tricky, yes. Impossible, no.

Of course a klutz like me would have dislocated that left shoulder.

But thinking of someone like, say, Mary Lou Retton in her prime-- no problem.

[Lalaith]

listening to the little prat in person makes my skin crawl

Oh dear, this made me laugh. I wouldn't go quite that far myself but I really can't forgive him for not having read the blessed book. He annoys me, mainly because when I think 'Frodo' now, I can't help having his quivering ickle boy face hovering around the vision of my mind's eye.

[mark12_30]

Although I wish the directors had relied less on his baby-blues and more on his line-delivery skills, I don't blame that on Wood. On the contrary, I've really enjoyed Wood's portrayal of a Much Younger And More Naive FrodoLijah. It has helped me put BookFrodo into perspective as the mature, sophisticated scholar and gentleman that he truly is. I don't have trouble separating them. But then, I don't have trouble separating Bingo from BookFrodo, nor Trotter from Strider.

As a comparison: Captain James T. Kirk, Captain Jean-Luc Picard, and Captain Janeway (whatsername.) Same jobs, different styles of attacking their duties; completely different personalities. I enjoy each of them; and each of them help me to see the strengths of the other (and weaknesses as well.) I don't hate one in favor of another; I enjoy all three of them.

So while I prefer BookFrodo over both FrodoLijah and Bingo, I don't dislike any of them. Frodolijah has thrown BookFrodo in to sharp relief for me, and I am glad for it. For instance, were it not for FrodoLijah, I would not have nearly the appreciation for BookFrodo's debate with Faramir in Ithilien that I do now.

Furthermore, as actors midway through their twenties, I'm impressed with both Wood and Liv Tyler.

Wood continues through his early twenties maintaining an acting career, steering clear of major scandal, and managing to enjoy such things as video games and his CD collection. He has more to learn about controlling his speech and his attitude... (let he who is without sin among us, cast the first stone.)

Tyler has astounded me with her attitude towards relationships, self-image, and family. I'll be keeping my eye on her. The more I learn about her, the more Arwen resembles her in my mind, and I don't mind it one bit. I wish more twentysomething actresses had her attitude.

[ninlaith]

The only two characters I thought could have been presented a little better in the movies were Frodo and Arwen. Eli was a wonderful Frodo but a little too soft and serious for my liking. Yes, Frodo had never been on an adventure but I just can't see the written character standing on the shores of Parth Galen with two gleaming tears running down his cheeks. It was a good idea for dramaic effect but oh well it was ok. Liv presented a wonderful performance as well, however, Arwen was only mentioned in the book. her appearance in the movie just shattered my visions of Glorfindel, whom I thought would've been played beautifully by Keifer Sutherland if he had slimmer facial features and was a little less masculine. I just can't picture him on a horse! Everyone was sensational all in all.

[Osse]

No, I have just watched the mounting sequence, and have come to the long-known conclusion that is indeed impossible, that is, for any of humanoid form... He generates motion from nowhere, and then moves in the opposite direction of that motion, add to that the fact that he was standing still and the horse was at a fast canter, the fact that there is an 80 kg dwarf atop the horse and the fact that the move would have broken his arm, and you'd still only be about a third of the way through the reasons of impossibilty!

It looks very CG as well...

Oh, the days of cheesy Legolas stunts... one would almost go as far to say that they are all he does in the films - sliding down stairs on shields, swinging onto horses, jumping all over moving Oliphaunts, doing backflips, jumping up and down... oh dear! No wonder the race of elves is declining!

[ninlaith]

sorry to burst the hypothetical bubble but Orlando Bloom did that stunt himself. Of course there were saftey features involved and they had to put a CG character over him to make it look realistic if that makes any sense. The scene went so fast that in the final cut of that scene Orlando was just a blur, so they slowed it down and covered him with a CG character.

[Lalaith]

I do now see Arwen as Liv and Legolas as Orlando but they are both very handsome and elf-like IMO, so I have no problem with that!

[ninlaith]

Orlando is exactly how I pictured Legolas but with a few differences. In my minds eye Legolas had short blond hair, yet braided here and there, and had a frailer build. Orlando is frail enough but not quite enough, however, he fit the bill completely. I'd have to say one of the best supporting characters was Kate Blanchet's Galadriel. I have always held a certain affinity to Galadriel and when she swaned onto the screen it was purely magic, chills up & down. She jumped right out of the book.

[Osse]

Yes, her portayal was suprisingly good... a bit under-jovial (remember: the Queen of the Wood went from being as "merry as any hobbit lass with daisies in her hair" to being over poweringly serious and back again at the drop of a hat) I think she got the seriousness bits right... needed to weigh that out with the joviality!

[Mithalwen]

Actually to be fair, although Sam says that about her...there aren't actually many moments of cheer recorded in FOtr that I recall..... and I do see Galadriel as Cate now.......but then she very much ressembles aiee either John Howard or Alan Lee's famous pictures of G so I guess that that helped...seeing as they were responsible for so much of the design....... and I was lucky enough to see the LOTR exhibition in London last october and that dress was amazing..it really did seem to radiate light..in a non tacky way.....


Liv Tyler was not my idea of Arwen and her acting did not win me over ..... and though I have mellowed because she does seem saner and more grounded than you would expect given the unorthodox upbringing amd marrying someone named after the "League of Gentlemen" village but I am afraid I still find her profoundly irritating... irrational maybe but there you go.... To be fair I think she would have been more convincing somehow if they had kept Stuart Townsend as Aragorn (but thank the Valar they didn't) somehow they make a more convincing couple... I feel Viggo needed someone with more depth and although neither he nor Miranda Otto exactly fitted my ideas of their chars (think Hugh Jackman maybe and oh bother can't think of the name...) ....there was a much stronger chemistry between them and both have now usurped my previous mental images...

For me Frodo and Sam have Iam Holm and Bill Nighy's voices from the BBC radio version - I think they outclass the too young and irritating Elijah and Dopey Sean.... and I think it got the nature of the relationship better .... far less gay... With Elijah and Sean... I just thought "Ted and Ralph"..... and nearly got thrown out of the cinema for laughing during Shelob....

Christopher Lee won me over as Saruman aslong as I forget the "honey tongue" ... his voice is powerful but not enchanting....

Darling, beloved Hugo is definitely Elrond.... *thud*... Legolas was not a plutonium blonde I am sure but he's got the moves if not the touch....

Sean Bean as Boromir was good, though I wish he had diluted the yorkshire accent a bit .......


However Faramir and Denethor were definitely impostors..... Denethor would never have had such table manners and Faramir should have looked more Numenorean ...... I mean David Wenham looks nice enough but Fararmir was rather special.... should have looked like a younger Hugo Weaving

[VanimaEdhel]

This opinion surprises me.

In Maine, back in 1979, I knew a lithe, extremely talented cowgirl (named Karen) who had a barrel-racing palomino named Buck. While the horse was standing still, she could swing up onto his saddle one-handed.

A few of my friends are able to perform this trick, but there is completely different motion involved. In order for it to work, the horse cannot move forward at all. Typically, if they horse did move forward, it is not so much that the person would most likely misjudge the jump as it is that, no matter how light the person, the horse would be thrown off-balance. Arod is going to gallop right down a hill after the maneuver and, while Legolas is supposedly lighter due to his Elf-frame, I would think that it would still make it more difficult, especially with the compact Gimli already on his back.

And I cannot see how Orlando could have done that stunt himself unless he was attached to a harness. It is a very difficult stunt to perform without some sort of equipment aiding in lifting him onto the horse.

Actually, one flaw that irked me is that they obviously used two different horses to play Shadowfax. Look at the horse throughout The Two Towers and you will see that there are two horses of very different appearances. As well as basic physical appearances, they also had very separate demeanors. While one was very docile around horses and the other frequently moved to bite them. I do not know whether, as an avid horseback rider, I just noticed it because I was paying special attention to the horses or whether it was generally very obvious. Did anyone else notice this?

On the topic of the horses, the horse that played Asfaloth was great. He was so beautiful, and he was a real stallion rather than a gelding. Actually, he looked just like a horse at the barn at which I ride.

Viggo Mortensen, in my opinion, did very, very well in the scene where the horse that played Brego knelt next to him like that and licked his face. Although I am sure the horse was a very sweet creature, accidents do happen. If the horse was off-balance, it may have kneeled on him, breaking ribs or worse, and when it was licking him, even the most well-meaning horse can accidentally catch you with his or her teeth. These guys really did a lot for the job.

[Mithalwen]

I read an interview with Sir Ian McKellen and they did use two horses for Shadowfax - quite reasonable if your actor is and aged thespian who hadn't ridden before as I recall bareback and reinless would have been a bit of a challenge... "the galloping double" was indeed coinsiderably more fiery. They used a horse and a pony for gandalf's cart scenes for scale but his favourite was the pony who played Bill if I remember rightly.

Actually I was convinced there were 2 Asfaloths ..... one in close ups one in long shots (again understanderble since Liv Tyler was another novice) seems to have different markings if not different breeds...... and in half the shots he is overbent and int he others he has normal head carriage.....

[Encaitare]

I used to have a crush on Orlando Bloom but I've since moved on and now I think he's just a pansy. Legolas had dark hair! So that's how I've begun to think of Legolas. Also, Faramir and Boromir had dark hair, but I love David Wenham and Sean Bean's performances, so I don't mind. Eowyn was more or less how I pictured her, but I only read the third book without seeing the respective movie.

I thought Brad Dourif was perfect as Grima... I wish PJ had done the Scouring of the Shire, because he and Christopher Lee would have done it AMAZINGLY.

[VanimaEdhel]

Actually I was convinced there were 2 Asfaloths ..... one in close ups one in long shots (again understanderble since Liv Tyler was another novice) seems to have different markings if not different breeds...... and in half the shots he is overbent and int he others he has normal head carriage.....

But, then again, you can make any horse carry his head like that. The stunt double would certainly have been much more comfortable riding, and would have let the head out. Whereas Liv Tyler said that, when she was on the horse, she was pulling back with a lot of force the whole time. A lot of the riding where you just see her pumping her arms was apparently done on a model of a horse as well. I seem to recall that she said that the only scene where she was really doing the riding is where she mounted behind Frodo and urged Asfaloth forward. The rest was the stunt rider or Liv on a model.

Back to the head carriage, that overbent neck, as I said, is typically a result of a rider trying to hold the horse back too much. Technically, it's not really good for the horse's motion, but many people encourage it in the horse because it has taken on the reputation as looking fancy. However, holding a horse back because he is barrelling into turns very quickly is another reason one might force such an angle of the neck. However, on the far shots, they are typically on straight bearing, a reason for the rider to let the horse's neck out and allow it to gallop - provided, of course that they keep the horse from being front-heavy and perhaps tumbling.

Now that we have covered so much else, on the topic of what you imagined, how was the clothing and armor? Some of the detailing - even down to fraying of a sleeve - was great, in my opinion. Aragorn's clothing was especially well-done, in my opinion. Then again, Viggo Mortensen did take extra care that his outfit was typically just thread-bare enough. I, personally, was not a big fan of the dress Arwen wore in Aragorn's memory, not because I did not think the dress was gorgeous, but because I, personally, thought it departed from the general Arwen style a bit too much for my liking. Others will probably disagree, but it was just not my personal preferred style for what Arwen should wear in that scene.

[Mithalwen]

I must admit it occurred to me that the rider might have had to keep the horse much more in hand for the benefit of the camera in the close ups .... and the Liv close ups are about as subtle fakes as the Frodo doll - io haven't had time to look again but I remember thinking sometimes the grey was more of an "iron grey" with darker mane and dappling on his quarters and since I knew there had been more than one Shadowfax I thought it likely that there was more than one Asfaloth..... And while it is a while since I left the horse world...I do recall that being overbent was highly frowned on ... no more than perpendicular ... Personally I think it looks horrible; as if the horse is fighting the bit, much rather the horse was going into the bridle....anyway this is getting far to technical for teh majority I guess!

I loved the elvish armour and weapons........ it was great to be able to see them close up - the only thing was I wondered if they would have used runes rather than script for engraving...? But the attention to detail was more than enough to satisfy this Tolkien pedant .....