Tidbits of Curiosity

[Urwen]

I just had a stray thought: what if Gurthang/Anguirely were truly evil? I mean, their maker and all three of their subsequent owners met tragic ends....

[Andsigil]

Originally Posted by Urwen

All right, change of topic.


Who are your favorite character(s) of Tolkien Legendarium?


Mine should be obvious, and so should the reasons I like each one of them.

Cirdan the Shipwright.

I keep hoping that someone uncovers an old shipping trunk, under some clutter in an overgrown garden shed in Tolkien's old home, and finds an original, 300 page manuscript by JRR, entitled, The Adventures of Cirdan.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Cirdan the Shipwright.

I keep hoping that someone uncovers an old shipping trunk, under some clutter in an overgrown garden shed in Tolkien's old home, and finds an original, 300 page manuscript by JRR, entitled, The Adventures of Cirdan.

I am also hoping to receive more tales about my favorites - specifically Lalaith and Maeglin. They are barely mentioned at all, and then they were both killed off. This injustice needs to be fixed ASAP!


(It'd probably never happen, though, and so I will turn to fanfiction....)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I am also hoping to receive more tales about my favorites - specifically Lalaith and Maeglin. They are barely mentioned at all, and then they were both killed off. This injustice needs to be fixed ASAP!


(It'd probably never happen, though, and so I will turn to fanfiction....)

I'm not sure there is much more to tell about Lalaith - she is supposed to represent all that is lost in the family with her death: joy, innocence, childhood, purity. Sure, we could get some stories showing more of that, but her character would still be known better in the aftermath of her death than in whatever we know about her life.

Maeglin, though, is a much more complex character while living, and I agree that he could be more fleshed out.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I just had a stray thought: what if Gurthang/Anguirely were truly evil? I mean, their maker and all three of their subsequent owners met tragic ends....

How literally do we take Melian? She claims that there is malice in Anglachel, and that "the dark heart of the smith still dwells in it" (way to talk about your husband's cousin!). That's similar to how Gandalf describes the One Ring: "the treasure of the Enemy, fraught with all his malice; and in it lies a great part of his strength of old." If Melian is telling the truth, Anglachel is basically a One Ring Lite, so yeah, it's kind of evil.

The question is, does Anguirel share this trait? That depends on whether putting malice and his heart into the swords was intentional. There's nothing to indicate that Anglachel was forged with the intent of paying it to Thingol, so it might well be similar to its mate, yes.

Speaking of paired swords... does anyone have any thoughts on what this concept of mated pairs of weapons actually... means? You've got Anglachel and Anguirel, and then Glamdring and Orcrist... is it just a super fancy way of saying they were forged together? Or is there something more to it?

Originally Posted by Andsigil

Cirdan the Shipwright.

I keep hoping that someone uncovers an old shipping trunk, under some clutter in an overgrown garden shed in Tolkien's old home, and finds an original, 300 page manuscript by JRR, entitled, The Adventures of Cirdan.

Oh, come on, I didn't even know I needed this! For preference, I'd like it tucked into the Master Family Tree (like the master map/s), which will finally answer such questions as how many generations there were between the Awakening and the Great March (not to mention naming the Lords of Andunie and Princes of Dol Amroth, Cardolan, and Rhudaur!).

Originally Posted by Urwen

I am also hoping to receive more tales about my favorites - specifically Lalaith and Maeglin. They are barely mentioned at all, and then they were both killed off. This injustice needs to be fixed ASAP!

(It'd probably never happen, though, and so I will turn to fanfiction....)

^_^ And this is why Middle-earth fanfic is the best fanfic: because Tolkien laid down so much material to work from, but also left lots of gaps that we just itch to fill. Obviously it's not as good as getting actual new Tolkien material, but unless you're really into outdated linguistic snippets, that well apparently ran dry with The Children of Hurin, twelve years ago.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

How literally do we take Melian? She claims that there is malice in Anglachel, and that "the dark heart of the smith still dwells in it" (way to talk about your husband's cousin!). That's similar to how Gandalf describes the One Ring: "the treasure of the Enemy, fraught with all his malice; and in it lies a great part of his strength of old." If Melian is telling the truth, Anglachel is basically a One Ring Lite, so yeah, it's kind of evil.

The question is, does Anguirel share this trait? That depends on whether putting malice and his heart into the swords was intentional. There's nothing to indicate that Anglachel was forged with the intent of paying it to Thingol, so it might well be similar to its mate, yes.

Speaking of paired swords... does anyone have any thoughts on what this concept of mated pairs of weapons actually... means? You've got Anglachel and Anguirel, and then Glamdring and Orcrist... is it just a super fancy way of saying they were forged together? Or is there something more to it?



Oh, come on, I didn't even know I needed this! For preference, I'd like it tucked into the Master Family Tree (like the master map/s), which will finally answer such questions as how many generations there were between the Awakening and the Great March (not to mention naming the Lords of Andunie and Princes of Dol Amroth, Cardolan, and Rhudaur!).



^_^ And this is why Middle-earth fanfic is the best fanfic: because Tolkien laid down so much material to work from, but also left lots of gaps that we just itch to fill. Obviously it's not as good as getting actual new Tolkien material, but unless you're really into outdated linguistic snippets, that well apparently ran dry with The Children of Hurin, twelve years ago.

hS

Not necessarily. Like I said, Fall of Gondolin book came out.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Not necessarily. Like I said, Fall of Gondolin book came out.

Yeah... unfortunately there's not really new material in there. It's possible that the 'evolution of the story' section has some, but the bulk of it is just the versions told in the Book of Lost Tales, 1930s Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales.

Oh, but you said you've not read HoME, so yes! The Fall contains quite a lot of M[a]eglin, along with a heck of a lot of details about Gondolin itself. You'll like it.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Yeah... unfortunately there's not really new material in there. It's possible that the 'evolution of the story' section has some, but the bulk of it is just the versions told in the Book of Lost Tales, 1930s Silmarillion, and Unfinished Tales.

Oh, but you said you've not read HoME, so yes! The Fall contains quite a lot of M[a]eglin, along with a heck of a lot of details about Gondolin itself. You'll like it.

hS

Of course there would be. He is the main reason it happened.



And that's what I'm counting on. It would probably be a while before it's translated into my language, though.

[Urwen]

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

Interesting. I would say that they do actually occupy much the same position - while not playing a particularly large part in the great events (Maeglin is actually off trying to kidnap Idril at the time), they're the driving force that leads to those events. Maeglin betrays Gondolin, of course; meanwhile Idril commits her own act of arguable treason, going against her father's express wishes to dig an escape tunnel. (She actually tells the people working on it that she'll square it with her dad - but doesn't, because she knows he won't do it!)

Ultimately, the hero of the story still winds up being Tuor, while Morgoth remains as the ultimate villain. But their actions are enabled and pushed forward by the other two.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

If Idril is the big good of FoG, does that make M[a]eglin big bad? Or does that 'honor' still fall to Morgoth?

Haven't read it, but here's an idea based on The Silm. Morgoth is always the big bad, the ultimate evil. Elves and Men and Dwarves are never the ultimate villains of the story because none are wholly villains. However, Morgoth often takes the backstage when he is so far away from the development of the plot, so each story has it's own set of antagonists, which in proportion may not be quite as big of a bad but a more relevant bad.

Do you find that Maeglin's story and role seems to resemble that of Gollum?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Interesting. I would say that they do actually occupy much the same position - while not playing a particularly large part in the great events (Maeglin is actually off trying to kidnap Idril at the time), they're the driving force that leads to those events. Maeglin betrays Gondolin, of course; meanwhile Idril commits her own act of arguable treason, going against her father's express wishes to dig an escape tunnel. (She actually tells the people working on it that she'll square it with her dad - but doesn't, because she knows he won't do it!)

Ultimately, the hero of the story still winds up being Tuor, while Morgoth remains as the ultimate villain. But their actions are enabled and pushed forward by the other two.

hS

Cross posted. Interesting thoughts. I saw Idril almlst like the Melian of Gondolin, but I guess you're right: Melian is on Thingol's level and her advice is heeded, while Idril is much below, at the level of Maeglin.

[Urwen]

I think so. Their actions led to good things. Without Maeglin, War of Wrath wouldn't have happened. Without Gollum, the Ring wouldn't have been destroyed.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I think so. Their actions led to good things. Without Maeglin, War of Wrath wouldn't have happened. Without Gollum, the Ring wouldn't have been destroyed.

A [complex] evil that leads to good - but still remains evil?

I was also thinking about their position and eventual choices. Alienated from their society (to different degrees, of course), hiding away from the world, lusting after an unattainable object, betraying the only other thing that matters in order to satisfy the lust by willingly going over to the enemy, eventually dying in a desperate bid for their desire.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

A [complex] evil that leads to good - but still remains evil?

I was also thinking about their position and eventual choices. Alienated from their society (to different degrees, of course), hiding away from the world, lusting after an unattainable object, betraying the only other thing that matters in order to satisfy the lust by willingly going over to the enemy, eventually dying in a desperate bid for their desire.

I suppose that's true, though there are differences. One lusted after another person, the other lusted after an object. One committed suicide, the other was murdered.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

One committed suicide, the other was murdered.

'Murder' usually implies you're not in the middle of trying to kill your murderer... They both died by getting into a fight at the top of a cliff and winding up going over the edge.

The biggest difference, really, is that Gollum didn't go over to the Enemy. He gave up information under torture, but remained a free agent afterwards. Maeglin, meanwhile, not only didn't need to be tortured, but ended up actively working to weaken Gondolin for Morgoth's attack.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

'Murder' usually implies you're not in the middle of trying to kill your murderer... They both died by getting into a fight at the top of a cliff and winding up going over the edge.

For a second, I thought you were implying that Tuor fell off the cliff too...Then I realized you meant Gollum.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

'Murder' usually implies you're not in the middle of trying to kill your murderer... They both died by getting into a fight at the top of a cliff and winding up going over the edge.

The biggest difference, really, is that Gollum didn't go over to the Enemy. He gave up information under torture, but remained a free agent afterwards. Maeglin, meanwhile, not only didn't need to be tortured, but ended up actively working to weaken Gondolin for Morgoth's attack.

hS

Most of the fanfictions I've read go with the idea that Tuor actively pushed/threw Maeglin off the cliffside. (As in, physically lifting him up and chucking him over the edge)

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

The biggest difference, really, is that Gollum didn't go over to the Enemy. He gave up information under torture, but remained a free agent afterwards. Maeglin, meanwhile, not only didn't need to be tortured, but ended up actively working to weaken Gondolin for Morgoth's attack.

He did bring Frodo to Shelob - and it's implied that he expected to get the rags and the rings that would be left over after her meal. When he revealed Baggins under torture, he wasn't under any obligation to Frodo, so there was no one to betray.

Originally Posted by Urwen

Most of the fanfictions I've read go with the idea that Tuor actively pushed/threw Maeglin off the cliffside. (As in, physically lifting him up and chucking him over the edge)

Which is still part of the fight that Maeglin started. Killing in battle is not really murder - especially when it's done in defense of yourself and your wife and kid.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Which is still part of the fight that Maeglin started. Killing in battle is not really murder - especially when it's done in defense of yourself and your wife and kid.

Self-defense is still technically murder, despite being excusable.


See it for yourself:



This is what it looked like from Maeglin's perspective.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Self-defense is still technically murder, despite being excusable.


See it for yourself:

This is what it looked like from Maeglin's perspective.

Or, how about: when you get into a fight you hope to win but you also accept the possibility that you lose? What do you want - for Maeglin to be allowed to initiate a match but without fear of consequences? The possible consequences are the same for both parties.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Or, how about: when you get into a fight you hope to win but you also accept the possibility that you lose? What do you want - for Maeglin to be allowed to initiate a match but without fear of consequences? The possible consequences are the same for both parties.

I am not saying that there shouldn't be consequences. I am saying death is too extreme of a consequence.


Besides, I have always found bad guys more interesting than good guys and goody-two-shoes characters. Forgive me for being upset that one of my favorite characters died. :c


I especially like it when bad guys turned over a new leaf. That is what should have happened here too, imho.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I am not saying that there shouldn't be consequences. I am saying death is too extreme of a consequence.

Besides, I have always found bad guys more interesting than good guys and goody-two-shoes characters. Forgive me for being upset that one of my favorite characters died. :c

I especially like it when bad guys turned over a new leaf. That is what should have happened here too, imho.

Except that Maeglin had every chance to turn over a new leaf, and didn't. Even if he didn't want to confess his treason (reasonable), or turn directly against Morgoth during the battle - all he had to do was accept that Idril wasn't his. To walk away from the city, flash his hypothetical credentials to the nearest Balrog, and sit back to watch it all burn.

He didn't. He went after her - despite her being married to someone else - and while trying to abduct her, also did his best to kill her son and erase the tangible evidence of that marriage.

Originally Posted by The Fall of Gondolin

Now then Meglin had Idril by the hair and sought to drag her to the battlements out of cruelty of heart, that she might see the fall of Earendel to the flames; but he was cumbered by that child, and she fought, alone as she was, like a tigress for all her beauty and slenderness. There he now struggles and delays amid oaths while that folk of the Wing draws nigh - and lo! Tuor gives a shout so great that the Orcs hear it afar and waver at the sound of it. Like a crash of tempest the guard of the Wing were amid the men of the Mole [who were guarding but not intervening], and these were stricken asunder. When Meglin saw this he would stab Earendel with a short knife he had; but that child bit his left hand, that his teeth sank in, and he staggered, and stabbed weakly, and the mail of the small coat turned the blade aside; and thereupon Tuor was upon him and his wrath was terrible to see. He seized Meglin by that hand that held the knife and broke the arm with the wrench, and then taking him by the middle leapt with him upon the walls, and flung him far out.

M[a]eglin's response to the person he hates coming at him with a sword... is to try and murder a seven-year-old child before Tuor can stop him. At that point, even if you can somehow justify 'drag Idril to the wall to watch him throw her son over', he was irredeemable. There's no way he could tell himself he was really doing a good thing, or just misunderstood, or just protecting himself - he'd crossed the line into outright evil.

And that's okay! Evil characters can be fun (evil people, not so much). They can be tragic. Gollum proves that we can very much like reading them. But in Middle-earth, with Tolkien writing it, they also eventually - sometimes very eventually - either are redeemed, or get their comeuppance.

Maeglin made the choice to be irredeemable. His death was a direct result of that.

(Also, practically: what else could Tuor have done? They could hardly drag him with them through the secret tunnel and up the mountains, and letting an enemy go free during a battle is a great way to get stabbed in the back. I suppose he could have crippled him and left him to burn with the city - but would that really be better?)

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

I am not saying that there shouldn't be consequences. I am saying death is too extreme of a consequence.


Besides, I have always found bad guys more interesting than good guys and goody-two-shoes characters. Forgive me for being upset that one of my favorite characters died. :c

Hey, I agree about the bad guys being more interesting! I never liked Tuor much, cause he's exactly that kind of goody two shoes. Gets the lucky destiny and everything just falls to his feet.

But I don't think Maeglin's end was extreme. Firstly, regardless of whether he deserved punishment for betrayal, he engaged in a fight with Tuor. There's a certain understanding, a social contract of sorts, that in a fight physical damage is not only acceptable but expected. In a life and death fight, death is predictable. And note that Maeglin initiates the personal conflict: he has the choice to take that risk or leave it; Tuor, as the receiver, does not have the same choice. You wouldn't say that Eowyn murdered a Nazgul, because murder is not a great word choice in the context of battles.

Moreover, I still argue that if Maeglin's treason was known before the Fall, he might have been tried and executed. There's a chance that if he repented he could have been used to save the people living in the city by misinforming Morgoth or helping evacuate or something, but at least as much chance of being executed foe high treason. After all, what he did was the worst possible thing a citizen of Gondolin could do. So I don't think it's an unfair end for him either.

Edit: crossed with Hui.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Except that Maeglin had every chance to turn over a new leaf, and didn't. Even if he didn't want to confess his treason (reasonable), or turn directly against Morgoth during the battle - all he had to do was accept that Idril wasn't his. To walk away from the city, flash his hypothetical credentials to the nearest Balrog, and sit back to watch it all burn.

He didn't. He went after her - despite her being married to someone else - and while trying to abduct her, also did his best to kill her son and erase the tangible evidence of that marriage.



M[a]eglin's response to the person he hates coming at him with a sword... is to try and murder a seven-year-old child before Tuor can stop him. At that point, even if you can somehow justify 'drag Idril to the wall to watch him throw her son over', he was irredeemable. There's no way he could tell himself he was really doing a good thing, or just misunderstood, or just protecting himself - he'd crossed the line into outright evil.

And that's okay! Evil characters can be fun (evil people, not so much). They can be tragic. Gollum proves that we can very much like reading them. But in Middle-earth, with Tolkien writing it, they also eventually - sometimes very eventually - either are redeemed, or get their comeuppance.

Maeglin made the choice to be irredeemable. His death was a direct result of that.

(Also, practically: what else could Tuor have done? They could hardly drag him with them through the secret tunnel and up the mountains, and letting an enemy go free during a battle is a great way to get stabbed in the back. I suppose he could have crippled him and left him to burn with the city - but would that really be better?)

hS

They could have chained him or something.


P.S: You up for making a new riddle?

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

They could have chained him or something.

Not really. 1. No time, city is in chaos and they need to flee, and 2. Again, the two possible ooutcomes of that are either giving him back to the enemy or a slow and painful death. I think the most just option would have been a trial, but that wasn't possible when the treachery was revealed.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Not really. 1. No time, city is in chaos and they need to flee, and 2. Again, the two possible ooutcomes of that are either giving him back to the enemy or a slow and painful death. I think the most just option would have been a trial, but that wasn't possible when the treachery was revealed.

Depends on what such a trial would entail.


And you think his canonical death wasn't slow or painful? Striking the rock thrice and then gettin' burned seems both slow and painful from where I stand....

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Not really. 1. No time, city is in chaos and they need to flee, and 2. Again, the two possible ooutcomes of that are either giving him back to the enemy or a slow and painful death. I think the most just option would have been a trial, but that wasn't possible when the treachery was revealed.

There is also a quote from another book, which is as follows: 'When an individual takes it upon themselves to be a judge, jury and executioner, they become too dangerous to continue in society.'

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

There is also a quote from another book, which is as follows: 'When an individual takes it upon themselves to be judge, jury and executioner, they become too dangerous to continue in society.'

Which is what Maeglin did, both to Idril and Earendil in person, and to the entire city of Gondolin...

hS

[Urwen]

So did Tuor....


(Also, way to turn my own argument against me...)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

So did Tuor....


(Also, way to turn my own argument against me...)

So did Eowyn, when she murdered the incapacitated Witch-king for threatening Theoden. In fact, I'm pretty sure every member of the Fellowship kills someone at some point (Moria, if nowhere else).

I think what you're really saying is that you wish Maeglin hadn't had to die, because you like the kind of stories Tolkien could have built around his character. I get that! I feel the same way about Finrod, who would have made the Nirnaeth and War of Wrath much more interesting to read about.

But for both of them, in terms both of the narrative structure and of their characters as written, their deaths were necessary - Maeglin to bring the tale of Gondolin to a close, Finrod to show the cost of Beren's quest. Fanfic can save them - but most fanfic doesn't have the same continent-spanning epochal scope as The Silmarillion.

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

So did Eowyn, when she murdered the incapacitated Witch-king for threatening Theoden. In fact, I'm pretty sure every member of the Fellowship kills someone at some point (Moria, if nowhere else).

I think what you're really saying is that you wish Maeglin hadn't had to die, because you like the kind of stories Tolkien could have built around his character. I get that! I feel the same way about Finrod, who would have made the Nirnaeth and War of Wrath much more interesting to read about.

But for both of them, in terms both of the narrative structure and of their characters as written, their deaths were necessary - Maeglin to bring the tale of Gondolin to a close, Finrod to show the cost of Beren's quest. Fanfic can save them - but most fanfic doesn't have the same continent-spanning epochal scope as The Silmarillion.

hS

But none of them killed a supposed ally.....

[Urwen]

And, also, look at this image again.



You might see a murderer here, but I see someone who is afraid out of their wits.

[Urwen]

But then again, you're probably correct. Every single characters I had liked to any degree was deaded or close to it. All in the name of wrapping up or advancing the plot. And this isn't limited to just Tolkinese characters either. And people think I am silly for being upset over fictional characters. :c

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

But then again, you're probably correct. Every single characters I had liked to any degree was deaded or close to it. All in the name of wrapping up or advancing the plot. And this isn't limited to just Tolkinese characters either. And people think I am silly for being upset over fictional characters. :c

Hey, dying makes a character that much more interesting! (And some would have been more interesting if they stayed dead *coughBerencough*).

But I don't think that picture gives a good and balanced view. For instance, in my mind I see a desperate and terribly frightened Idril and Earendil, not the pair calmly watching over Tuor's shoulder. Also, falling and dying are both terrifying things, which gives the possibility of the picture's interpretation. However, just a moment before the fall, Maeglin's expression could easily have been that of mad fury, and perhaps that was still his expression as he fell - that's left up to us, and I leave the degree of his madness an open question. So no, I will not judge the story differently based on this picture.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Hey, dying makes a character that much more interesting! (And some would have been more interesting if they stayed dead *coughBerencough*).

But I don't think that picture gives a good and balanced view. For instance, in my mind I see a desperate and terribly frightened Idril and Earendil, not the pair calmly watching over Tuor's shoulder. Also, falling and dying are both terrifying things, which gives the possibility of the picture's interpretation. However, just a moment before the fall, Maeglin's expression could easily have been that of mad fury, and perhaps that was still his expression as he fell - that's left up to us, and I leave the degree of his madness an open question. So no, I will not judge the story differently based on this picture.

Well, then you best hope I get my hands on that book asap, because as it stands, this is my POV, and the only way it can change is if details from that book cause it to change.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Well, then you best hope I get my hands on that book asap, because as it stands, this is my POV, and the only way it can change is if details from that book cause it to change.

Nothing wrong with standing firm in your pov, as long as you can reasonably argue your side and hear arguments from other sides. It's fun to debate things, and the point is not to convince the most people to agree with you but to present things so that they're seen in a different light. I still maintain my general view that what happened to Maeglin wasn't unreasonable, but maybe as a result of this thread I'll ljke him a little better.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Nothing wrong with standing firm in your pov, as long as you can reasonably argue your side and hear arguments from other sides. It's fun to debate things, and the point is not to convince the most people to agree with you but to present things so that they're seen in a different light. I still maintain my general view that what happened to Maeglin wasn't unreasonable, but maybe as a result of this thread I'll ljke him a little better.

And while I can see that his death wasn't unreasonable, I still wish it didn't have to happen. Because as weird as it seems, I like him. Possibly because I see him as a kindred spirit of sorts.


I know how it feels to be all alone. To hope for something that is beyond your reach. To see the people you trusted and cared about - people who you thought cared about you in turn - abandon you and then move on like you never mattered to them in the first place.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Urwen

And while I can see that his death wasn't unreasonable, I still wish it didn't have to happen. Because as weird as it seems, I like him. Possibly because I see him as a kindred spirit of sorts.


I know how it feels to be all alone. To hope for something that is beyond your reach. To see the people you trusted and cared about - people who you thought cared about you in turn - abandon you and then move on like you never mattered to them in the first place.

Well, that kinda happened because Maeglin was an oddball, but I agree that wasn't really his fault.

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Well, that kinda happened because Maeglin was an oddball, but I agree that wasn't really his fault.

Well, I am an oddball too, so thanks for proving my point....


Does this mean someone would kill me too in the future? By throwing me off a cliff?


I knew my fear of heights had to come from somewhere. Maybe I'm his reincarnation? (or his descendant)


Also, our given names both begin with M. Coincidence? I think not....