Game Thread - WW XCIIX - The Meaning Of Death

[the phantom]

Okay, so... I'd better start forming suspicions for voting, right? I'm going to blame it on not playing for so long, but I've seriously been forgetting to read with any sense of guilt/innocence in mind- as if we've just been having a pregame strategy discussion or something. *sigh* Time to reread.... Back soon with thoughts....

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My list of three is: Manwe, Inzil and Morsul.

But I am going to vote for Sally. That 'just checking in' post rubs me the wrong way. Though I would be happy to lynch anyone but Shasta, I suppose.

++SALLY

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

My (random?) list notwithstanding, at the moment Steve is probably my top lynch pick, mainly because I think not voting plays to the baddies more often than not.

What? I never suggested not voting.

edit: Oh, wait, you mean that you feel like you need to vote someone.

[Pomegranate]

So, what we have here.

Shasta is obviously off my radar at the moment.

I don't want to vote for the phantom - partially because this is a very useful system and I can't see how it would work pro-KM and partially because I don't like voting amusing/interesting/loud players on the first Day.

Everyone else... yeah.

It seems to me there are a couple of people who have in general only been slightly confused: Brin, to a degree Morsul. Convincing enough in their innocent baffledness so I don't want to vote for them now.

Boro: I'm not any better in this than usual, but he brings up and elaborates good points and thus I'm reluctant to look at him today. The only confusing thing is his big opposition against the pretty harmless lists.

Sally: hasn't been around enough for me to have anything to say about her.

Eonwe: my gut-feeling of him is not bad, if not good. Some good analysis on the reveals and chains and such. Nothing to make him lean to the negative side too much.

Eomer: Brings up the 'if we'd not lynch anyone', which is always a bit creepy. Apart from that doesn't really do much- tries to find loopholes in phantom's plan (but don't we all?). I think he's leaning towards negative in my chart, but not by much.

Lottie: Can't say much. Neutral so far.

Manwe: Brings up a couple of points, but forgets the ranger so they are a bit irrelevant. Would a baddie forget the ranger? Or act as if he had? Neutral so far.

I'd say the ones I feel worst about are Inzil and Nerwen.

Nerwen comments smart points but mainly points out other people's mistakes, miscalculations or rules. Makes her seem sharp without any comment on the actual gaming and decisionmaking.

Inzil seems to me slightly more confused than normal, as well as more - explanatory. When we were giving counterarguments to her loophole-hunt, she was quick to make sure we knew she wasn't actually against it, just

Originally Posted by Inziladun

All right. I'm just looking for holes in this deal, before everyone just jumps in.

and

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Well, I didn't say the possibility of a fake reveal should prevent the plan, it was just a thought I had.

Which is true, but that's what we were all doing - throwing ideas forth and back. No need to explain your actions there.

I'll say the normal day 1 "These are obviously no serious suspicions, we don't have enough material etc etc" and vote for ++Inzil. The couple of quotes and gut feeling are enough to make me feel uncomfortable at this time of Day 1, and I cannot stay for longer.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Eomer

Though I would be happy to lynch anyone but Shasta, I suppose.

I'm going to take a screenshot of this, print it out, and frame it, for it will surely never be said again.

I'm still thinking about a vote.

[the phantom]

Well, it doesn't help that I'm not familiar with everyone. It takes time to get a feel for new folks. Anyone that gets a "free pass" means I'd probably vote to save them (not just that I wouldn't vote for them). Plus there are a lot of distractions here- sorry if some of this is incoherent...

Sally & Morsul- I'd really like to see more from them. I feel like one good reactionary post would let me put them as free pass or vote-worthy.

Eomer- He rubbed me the right way with his comment about not voting. Not the suggestion itself, but the way he said it. He gets a free pass.

Inzil- I'm not super comfortable with #22- something to do with the way he speaks of distrusting Amandil. But in two other posts I have him marked as sounding rather innocent. Meh... Probably not voting for him...

Steve- I don't exactly like his Amandil comments here. The comment about revealing because an early death would be great just feels slightly off, because frankly I don't think there's any possibility of an early death unless Elendil is lynched today, as Amandil will have protection through the night and his death would hand the village another weapon and ensure Elendil's survival.... So when the KMs don't take their free shot at Amandil Night 3 people can suddenly act surprised by the choice despite the fact that it's clearly the right call. But his summary post of the options was quite clear and accurate and I don't exactly want to off him yet. *sigh*

Boro- I see a couple little ploys he has working. It's too early to say if he's legit at this point, but the effort is there and I like the thought. Free pass.

Shasta- Not lynching him. Obviously. Free pass.

Brin- Hasn't played in a while, so automatically has a pass from me until tomorrow. Free pass.

I'm coming away with not much of an impression of Nerwen, Lottie, Manwe, and PomPom. I'd almost lean towards voting one of them for the sake of convenience. (I'm perfectly aware that's not at all fair.)

Seriously- I need to go someplace quieter to do this. *starts skimming again*

[Boromir88]

Eomer was the first one who suggested to not lynch anyone today, and a generally bad feeling from someone who has been looking fairly distant throughout the day. I mean there's been a nice prompting of talk for Day 1, and Eomer's stayed back with a sentence here and sentence there about the topics. And the vote for sally, looks safe and easy. Yes sally has only popped in with an "I'm here post," but that seems like a typical sally, who I expect will be back to add more before the day's end.

Pom's thoughts on Inzil are basically the same as mine. The positive is he's been involved with a fairly clear stance (unlike Eomer). Yet, he's been the only one reading that just has not convinced me he likes the Amandil revealing plan. Yes, many have been prodding questions and thinking of possible scenarios to flesh out the plan in full, but I've got this impression Inzil is grudgingly going along with it.

Manwe's been kind of similar to Eomer in a few critical questions here and there about the phantom's brainstorming. Yet I haven't gotten a good idea where he stands on it/how he feels about all of it.

---

The who I won't vote for today...Shasta and the phantom should be pretty self-explanatory.

With Pom, I've been quite comfortable bouncing all the ideas back and fourth with her. I suppose I should be paranoid that a wolf-Pom could still have enough guile to make me feel comfortable, but not going to worry and be paranoid about that possiblity today.

Edit: crossed with the phantom

[satansaloser2005]

Eomer, your three theoretical guilty parties are all young lads and yet, instead of voting for one of them, you attempt to sink your noose into the neck of a wee lass whose only apparent crime is saying hello? You hooligan. A pox on you and possibly your king.

I was going to defy Phantom's plan just to be difficult, but I'm in rather high spirits today, so I'll play nice. As always, however, I must constantly remind myself that a clever Phantom isn't necessary a Phantom who has my best interests at heart. (Note that this is just as much the case outside of Werewolf. He's really quite a horrible man. )

Assuming I heard anything last Night, which I absolutely didn't, I may have reason to point a finger at Dun, Steve, and my sweet prince Boro. Not my finger, necessarily, but a finger.

Meanwhile, annoyance at typical phananigans aside, I won't have any part in a lynch that involves Phantom, Brinn, Shasta (obviously), Pom, or myself (also obviously).

Finishing dinner and then back with more specific thoughts.

EDIT: x'd since Eomer's vote, which means I have a bit of catching up to do

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I think I'm going to go ahead and vote -

++Eonwe

- because some of his posts earlier, after the Amandil-plan was pretty much already dealt with, he seemed to continue the discussion a bit over-much. Shaky thread, I know, but it reminded me a bit of a wolf looking for something to say to seem helpful.

[Brinniel]

My list of three:
Eomer
Manwe
Nerwen

[the phantom]

Probably goes without saying, but Isildur probably ought to be around near the deadline if at all possible, even if he elects to be silent so as to mask his presence. Just being there would be helpful in the event that we're set to lynch Player X and he can prove somewhat convincingly that he's Gifted at the end.

Also, it just occurred to me we may want some sort of contingency plan should Elendil end up lynched somehow. With no dream to receive, Amandil would no longer be an absolute priority. He'd still be on the kill list I'd say, but not necessarily an immediate necessity, thus leaving Anarion free to bluff his protection. Any obvious suggestions for such a situation?

[Inziladun]

Just getting home after a thankfully minor traffic accident, only to realize I confused Steve with Eomer in my last post. Must be the E's. Let's get caught up now.

[satansaloser2005]

I think Isildur should try to save his power for when it's absolutely necessary (for instance, as Phantom just mentioned, the accidental near lynch of a gifted). And yes, I'm equally hopeful Isildur's able to either be around near DL or accurately predict the mood swings of the village so as to help if needed.

As counterintuitive as this sounds, I'd love for the power to never be used, though I'm sure we'll have some situation in which we'll need it. Saving it for the opportune moment is key, however. Thus, the mentions of possibly nullifying a likely useless lynch toDay? I'm vehemently opposed to such an idea. In fact, such a suggestion looks pretty fishy to me, as it gives a legitimate-sounding excuse for an idea that actually hurts the village in the long run.

More food. Less Werewolf.

EDIT: x'd with Dun

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Just getting home after a thankfully minor traffic accident, only to realize I confused Steve with Eomer in my last post. Must be the E's. Let's get caught up now.

Goodness, dear. I'm glad you're all right.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Also, it just occurred to me we may want some sort of contingency plan should Elendil end up lynched somehow. With no dream to receive, Amandil would no longer be an absolute priority. He'd still be on the kill list I'd say, but not necessarily an immediate necessity, thus leaving Anarion free to bluff his protection. Any obvious suggestions for such a situation?

Well, if Elendil gets lynched toDay, there's really not much we can do. Amandil's status is reduced to known innocent (albeit with a bonus power) in that case.

One thing that would need to be sorted out, though, is the Night 1 dream. Would it be advisable to have a reveal? And could such a reveal even be trusted?

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Just getting home after a thankfully minor traffic accident,

Oh! I hope you're alright!

I can see the points against Eomer, but I think it can probably be passed off mostly as Day One banter. If he keeps up like this past toDay, I'd raise a few eyebrows (not necessarily my own), but for now, I'll give him a pass.

Eonwe still rubs me the wrong way. Nothing really concrete, but I don't get a very innocent reading off his posts.

I'm not thrilled with Boro - he seems too keyed into popular opinion - passing off tp as 'not voting for' with the same level of surety as Shasta doesn't seem particularly innocent to me. I would think, as a wolf, you'd find both Shasta and tp untouchable due to popular opinion towards them, but as an innocent, you'd find Shasta untouchable and tp generally innocent-seeming but not beyond consideration.

Pom...good job Pom. You make me happy with your postings.

Anyway, I'd go for Eonwe and Boro at this point.

EDIT: xed since Zil's accident post.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Goodness, dear. I'm glad you're all right.

Thanks much. You too, Lottie. No one injured, minimal damage, and I wasn't at fault. As good as it could have been.

So yeah, I think I'm leaning toward Eomer for what I said before. No one else looks terribly shifty at this point.

++Eomer

[the phantom]

A few more tidbits from reading page 1-

Morsul asking about how many KMs there are in #6 doesn't look the best. "I can't be a KM. I don't even know how many of us there are!" But then something about his pessimism in the next line seems on level. But then in #17 his "hope we have more time!" comment seems to say "I'm an Ordo!" too forcibly, and his "clever clever" might be a bit of an attempt to ingratiate himself. Has not earned a pass from me.

Nerwen- I think I'm tipping her into my free pass category at this point. Still don't have a read, but looking back I think that's more my fault than hers. Give it time.

Manwe- Also gets a Day 1 pass after rereading. The reactions on page 1 were either innocent or faked rather well (which deserves a reward naturally).

Inzil- His comment in #22 about Amandil's reveal being his decision in the end still doesn't feel right to me- almost like a KM that's worried about what such a thing could mean for him.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

Morsul asking about how many KMs there are in #6 doesn't look the best. "I can't be a KM. I don't even know how many of us there are!"

I'm equally hesitant to believe any defense that is based off alleged naivete.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Just getting home after a thankfully minor traffic accident, only to realize I confused Steve with Eomer in my last post.

Ah, that makes sense. Glad you're ok.

Also, my 3-list for toDay is:
Phantom
Nerwen
Eomer

[the phantom]

VOTES
Eomer ++ Sally
Pom ++ Inzil
Shasta ++ Steve
Inzil ++ Eomer

VOTERS REMAINING
Morsul
Nerwen
Lottie
Manwe
Phantom
sally
Boro
Steve
Brin

[Galadriel55]

It is an hour before DL. Please remember to vote!

[Boromir88]

Votes are:

Sally - 1 (Eomer)
Inzil - 1 (Pom)
Eonwe - 1 (Shasta)
Eomer - 1 (Inzil)

---

Oi, glad you're ok Inzil at least it sounds very similar to my accident a few days ago...when I was at a stop sign and someone rear-ended me. Still dealing with the other motorists insurance was a bit of hastle, so best wishes.

If Elendil is lynched that would be downright crummy, but as far as I can tell there is nothing we can do about it. We just have to proceed with out a seer and a revealed Shastamandil on Day 2. It would torpedo the chance of getting reliable dreams, but seer's have been lynched Day 1 before, and we'll have to live with the fact of making a really poor lynch choice to hopefully make better decisions in the future.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Ah, that makes sense. Glad you're ok.

Thank you, sir.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

Oi, glad you're ok Inzil at least it sounds very similar to my accident a few days ago...when I was at a stop sign and someone rear-ended me. Still dealing with the other motorists insurance was a bit of hastle, so best wishes.

Glad you were all right as well. I was actually stopped in traffic when the other vehicle hit me from behind. The damage is really barely noticeable, but just enough that it needs to be fixed. It's an inconvenience, but thankfully nothing more.

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If Elendil is lynched that would be downright crummy, but as far as I can tell there is nothing we can do about it. We just have to proceed with out a seer and a revealed Shastamandil on Day 2. It would torpedo the chance of getting reliable dreams, but seer's have been lynched Day 1 before, and we'll have to live with the fact of making a really poor lynch choice to hopefully make better decisions in the future.

The risk that's always there, to be sure. But failure to vote just helps the baddies.

[the phantom]

Page 2 & 3 tidbits-

Inzil again is potentially squirmy about Amandil stepping up in #43. And there's a bit of the "defense of naivete" thing going on later when he doesn't realize that Elendil doesn't actually see the dream. I'm struggling with this one... On principle I dislike such defenses, but wow is this a good one, and well executed if it's in fact a ploy. (KMs after a full night of discussion would have to know the functioning of their primary enemy, right?) As annoying as it is I'm actually wanting to pass him through due to this. *grumble* Mind versus heart, you know...

Lottie's first post #57 is... weird. And I honestly don't know what I think of it.

Pom gets a pass due to unfamiliarity combined with participation.

Sally- I like the word "phananigans". Leaning towards free pass on those grounds...

Originally Posted by Steve

One thing that would need to be sorted out, though, is the Night 1 dream. Would it be advisable to have a reveal? And could such a reveal even be trusted?

Nope, couldn't really be trusted. But yeah, I figure the dreamer will feel the need to reveal if under pressure- particularly if there's evidence to point back to that would support the claim. Or heck- maybe reveal and just hope you're trusted? If there's info out there may as well try to use it, right?

[Galadriel55]

Boro, Inzil - I'm glad you're both alright!

[Loslote]

I'll go with a gut feeling rather than a surface argument and vote for

++Eonwe

Not that I'm all that certain that he's a KM, but he's the best bet I've got right now.

[Nerwen]

Well, here's my list: Morsul, Lottie, Brin.

Now, do I actually vote on Day One, or would that cause the universe to implode? Decisions, decisions...

[the phantom]

Okay, so, if I combined my readthrough posts together I get something like this-

Will defend with the fury of a thousand suns-
Shasta
Phantom

Will defend with the fury of one largish sun-
Pom
Boro
Manwe
Brin

Will defend with the fury of a forest fire-
Sally
Inzil
Nerwen
Eomer

Will defend with the fury of a medium sized campfire-
Lottie
Steve

Will defend with the fury of a lighter-
Morsul

Honestly I don't like my list very much. *sigh* I think I forgot how difficult Day 1 is.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Now, do I actually vote on Day One, or would that cause the universe to implode? Decisions, decisions...

I think the 'verse could handle the shock waves.

[Eönwë]

People that are slightly unsettling/a bit off:

Eomer- Posts nothing of substance except for the post suggesting not getting a lynch at all today.

Sally- Her post on Isildur is pretty good, but other than that, I'm not really getting a good feeling from her other posts.

Other than that, the phantom and Pom seem pretty good, Shasta has revealed and there hasn't been a counter, I'm not sure whether I like whatBoro's doing or not, I'm feeling mixed about Zil, and I'm really uncertain about anyone else.

[Morsul the Dark]

Well Oviously I Like Phantom and shasta that goes without saying.

The two I'm most worried about are Sally mostly because Phantom made some pretty good points(even if they're wrong) and Sally readily jumped in to join him. Looks like a possible attempt at bandwagoning to me.The other person who worries me a bit is Nerwen not much suspicious but almost too clean. Besides which she has a record of flying under my radar...



Eonwe is a bit fishy but not vote worthy

basically I can only rule out who Not to vote for at this point.

Aw heck it's day one and frankly I have to go with my gut...

++ Sally

Edit: xed a bunch

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I think the 'verse could handle the shock waves.

But what if she's a Reav- Oh, wait, wrong fandom...

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Eönwë

But what if she's a Reav- Oh, wait, wrong fandom...

Win. ^_^

You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill- Wait. Also wrong fandom....

[the phantom]

VOTES
Eomer ++ Sally
Pom ++ Inzil
Shasta ++ Steve
Inzil ++ Eomer
Lottie ++ Steve (2)
Morsul ++ Sally (2)

VOTERS REMAINING
Nerwen
Manwe
Phantom
sally
Boro
Steve
Brin

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Morsul the Dark

The two I'm most worried about are Sally mostly because Phantom made some pretty good points(even if they're wrong) and Sally readily jumped in to join him. Looks like a possible attempt at bandwagoning to me.

Looks like a possible attempt at saving your own hide to me.


I'm having difficulty deciding, and for the sake of safety and sanity, I'm going to take a few minutes away and then I'll be back to vote.

[the phantom]

By the way, is there any sad trend that's happened in Werewolf games in my absence lynch-wise that would matter to me? (E.g. Steve always gets lynched first so cut him a break.)

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by the phantom

By the way, is there any sad trend that's happened in Werewolf games in my absence lynch-wise that would matter to me? (E.g. Steve always gets lynched first so cut him a break.)

Hilariously, exactly that.

[Brinniel]

I feel a bit off about Manwe, but since that is only based on gut feeling alone, I don't feel inclined to vote for him toDay.

I do agree to some extent with phantom about Morsul. The tone of his posts from the very beginning is slightly suspicious.

I don't know if it'd do any good to put anymore candidates into play and end up spreading out the votes too much. Of those that already have a vote, I'm most inclined to vote Eomer. I don't like that he suggested a no-vote then suddenly voted Sally out of nowhere. I know it's Day 1, but surely there could've been a better pick than someone who hadn't really gotten a chance to post anything yet.

[the phantom]

Hilariously, exactly that.

Seriously?