WW: LXXXV - The Lost Philosophers of Maiar

[Valier]

sorry for my quietness....I've got a little grumpy maia to deal with I should be around till DL and I am so glad there is only 2 pages to catch up on. I'm going to go back and have a read...I promised myself after not playing ww for awhile I will do everything I can to help this village rid itself of these baddies...so lets go have a look.

[Pitchwife]

My, my, Rikae's laconic uneasiness with me has sprouted and borne fruit, it seems. Evidently it's 'being jumpy' to ask someone who throws a laconic oneliner like that at me for explanations, especially when it was her first post and she'd singled me out without commenting on anybody else, yes?
Looking at her later posts, she was rather quick to backpedal when questioned about that remark - but by then her 'uneasiness' (I'm not really sure whether to call it a suspicion yet) had been picked up by several others, so maybe she was content to relax and let them do the work? It would be awfully easy to see wolvish behaviour there - a little too easy, I think. I'm actually more inclined to think she was trying to test me for reaction, or maybe even throwing that remark out as a bait to see who would latch on to it.
Kit, for example - if I remember correctly, it was she who first posted a real suspicion with arguments to it against me. On the other hand, she also questioned Rikae and Sally for reasons, and it looks like she weighed the pros and cons impartially before voting. Her vote is understandable due to time constraints, I think, so I'll let her be for toDay.
Mac too, and I notice that he made a point of commending Kit for good posting (buttering up?) and subsequently latched on to the things she said about me. Otherwise, he and Agan are giving me a major headache with that cobbler-hint discussion. I don't see through it yet - better watch them both.

Legate and Shasta have both remarked how Lottie is remarkably un-talkative this game and not quite her regular self, which has bothered me too, but I'm a bit puzzled by this:

Originally Posted by Legate

Now if we are speaking of Cobbler hints, THIS might be one.

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Legate - that Lottie says Agan calling the cobbler 'she' is a cobbler-hint, or that Lottie is cobbler-hinting herself in this quote? If the latter, I'd say that's quite a stretch.
(As for the matter itself, I've noticed that Agan habitually calls all roles 'she' - obviously she doesn't hold with gender-neutral pronouns; so this is certainly not a cobbler-hint on her part.)


Regarding the rest of the village, I'm feeling OK with Boro (and will be feeling even more OK once he cuts the dream-interpreting banter and gets down to business) and skip and not alarmed yet by Zil and Shasta. I'd like to hear more from Ozzy, he hasn't really said anything that's stuck in my memory yet.
Nessa has, I believe, some posts of rather nondescript content as well (have I said that I hate math?). And there's a lot of people still dozing under my caribou with only a post or two - Eomer, BG, Ms Hubbard, Valier, anybody else? I keep forgetting how many people we've got in this village.

Now let's see how many people I've already x-ed with...

EDIT: from #79 onward, that is.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'll clarify a bit. Pitch still makes me uneasy in his own right, but the willingness of others to jump on what looked like a Pitch-wagon in the making tends to put him in a more innocent light.

....

Wilwa's seeming desire to admonish the village (yes, based on something I said, but I didn't say much) and wash her hands of the Pitch-wagon both strike me as evil attempts at being involved and positioning oneself in an innocentish way without actually having to go out on a limb.

So you feel he looks innocent because of the wagon, and I look bad for agreeing with you? And I feel telling the village that some of their discussion has been a waste of time, is kind of putting myself out there.

I need to leave in about 2 hours so I have to start figuring out who I want to vote for. I'll be lingering around for that time, and I'll skim back through some stuff, and try to come up with someone logical.

x'ed with Pitch

[Rikae]

Wow - a couple of jumpy people there.

[Rikae]

++Wilwa

[Ozban]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Not so much of Ozzy, but he is terribly funny. Not very much actually contributive, though. Still, nothing against him for the time being.

Well... Thanks?

You got a point with Lottie, that second post really looks alibistic. But I can easily imagine ordo writing that, just to cover himself. I saw that happen.

Originally Posted by Inziladun

Round here we call that wily girl "Sally".

Ah, thanks. Wasn't sure whom was everybody referring to.

I'd love to hear more from Sally. Way it is, i might as well vote for her, she's keeping low profile, not helping at all... Than that question of informations Rikae supposedly had. And although i hate that phrase, got some gut feeling, that everything isn't allright about her.

I'd also like to hear something from Lommy. I don't suspect her, I'd just like to hear what she thinks.

I'm losing my faith in Agan after last few posts. But as Rikae said, her behavior can mean anything.

And there is number of people who are quiet all the time, or so it seems. Cailín, Mänwe, what can I think of them?

DL is drawing nearer...

P.S.: Pitch: Legate isn't going to answer, he's on the plane, unless i'm terribly mistaken.

X'd since 82.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

I refuse to jump on the Pitch wagon. Just the fact that so many people find him guilty makes me think him innocent, because it's Day 1 and bandwaggons rarely ever end well on Day 1. So I'm not even remotely considering voting him (toDay) unless something obvious happens.

This strikes me as trying too hard. What 'Pitch-wagon'?

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Pitch

I'm not sure what you're saying here, Legate - that Lottie says Agan calling the cobbler 'she' is a cobbler-hint, or that Lottie is cobbler-hinting herself in this quote? If the latter, I'd say that's quite a stretch.
(As for the matter itself, I've noticed that Agan habitually calls all roles 'she' - obviously she doesn't hold with gender-neutral pronouns; so this is certainly not a cobbler-hint on her part.)

I agree, I don't know what Legate is getting at. Agan always refers to unknown people as a 'she', it's her way of protesting against our male-dominated society (at least, that's what I like to think she's doing). So no wolf looking at that would ever think it a Cobbler hint, it's just something she always does no matter what. And I don't see how what Lottie says could be a Cobbler hint. I'd like some clarification here on what he meant.

I do agree with this:

Originally Posted by Legate

This was just a very well possibly Wolfy post. I mean, the sort of quiet raising of suspicion, putting in a few names and then saying you don't actually suspect them, but if any people follow your opinion, then you join the bandwaggon and point at that 'I have been saying that I suspect them all along'.

She does sort of seem to be agreeing about any major suspicions brought forward, enough that she could vote for them and point out that she had considered it earlier....but then showing she's not positive, so if they wind up innocent she can say she never fully suspected them.

x'ed since my last post

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

This strikes me as trying too hard. What 'Pitch-wagon'?

This one:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Option 1: Pitch is being jumpy.
Option 2: Pitch is genuinely curious about being suspected by a couple of people on day 1.

The passive-aggressive phrasing makes me inclined towards option 1.

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

We have Pitch, who pinged my personal radar from the moment he said "havens forfend we do something like the Shasta lynch again!", but that's a Lottie reason so I'm going to need more to go on. And besides that, he's suspected by an awful lot of people so far, considering. From personal experience as a wolf I know that wolves don't need to do much to push a Day 1 bandwagon right into an innocent, but it's something to look at.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I can see where people are coming from about Pitchie, but I don't think I would have noticed it on my own, so I'm hesitant to point fingers at him.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

++Pitch

I feel, though he's said a lot trying to look helpful, but hasn't really helped anything at all. Of course he still has 10ish hours to come back, but I don't. So going on what I have to work with now Pitch looks the most suspicious to me.

Originally Posted by elronds_daughter

Pitch seems shady, for reasons others have mentioned. If it was just "Hey, wait, why me?", then I wouldn't be so worried, but it's been "Hey, wait, why me? Also, here's a lot of words to make me seem like I'm contributing."

Now most of those just seem a bit unsure about him, but it's enough that at some point, when people have no one else to vote for, they'll default back on him. So it's more a Pitch-wagon in the making. I've seen enough disastrous Day 1 waggons to know what the initial signs are. The interesting thing is that there aren't actually that many people who strongly suspect him, but everyone is under the idea that lots of people do, and they therefore consider him an option.

[Valier]

ok well going through the posts so far....made it through 8 players. Hmmm so far I think Pitch is looking ok to me, I'm not sure why he has warrented all the attention, So I won't be voting him. Also Nessa seems fairly innocent (well not pinging on my radar yet) Wilwa looks ok.... Lets seeeeee Shasta looks a little fishy to me as well as Rikae, I dont think I like her very odd vote, since she out and out suspected Pitch then voted otherwise.
I must say Lommy and Greenie seem a little uncharacteristicly quiet to me.... Akkkk so many people to go through yet...I'll be back

[Valier]

double post... I agree with you Wilwa on your last paragraph concerning Pitch. Bandwagoning on D1 is always a shame, though to alot of people may seem the easiest route to take, when they are unsure of who to vote for.
But it is always a good place for a wolf to hide. Also I believe a good place for a wolf to hide D1 is to adamently oppose a bandwagon that may be a fellow wolf or to protect another wolf who has jumped on the wagon...I hope that made sense...I'm thinking while I'm typing..

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Ozzy

I'd love to hear more from Sally. Way it is, i might as well vote for her, she's keeping low profile, not helping at all... Than that question of informations Rikae supposedly had.

Agree it's most unlike Sally to be so quiet, but didn't she give advance warning that she wouldn't get to post a lot? I think I remember something like that from the Admin thread.
The question about Rikae's knowledge was raised by Nessa, however (#55). And yes, that was at best careless, if by an innocent.

I had overlooked wilwa's post when writing my last, and even forgotten she was playing. It's remarkable how she makes a big show of opposing the 'Pitchwagon', but only a few posts later carefully joins and feeds the growing suspicion against Lottie raised by Legate earlier, while at the same time agreeing with my questioning of one of Legate's points against Lottie, so it doesn't look like she's just latching on to him wholesale, if you get my meaning.
I feel a bit puzzled by Lottie's quietness myself, but truth to be told, I think I've seen her at a loss for early suspicions before when innocent, and her reaction at #78 feels rather innocent-Lottie'ish to me.

[wilwarin538]

Originally Posted by Pitch

It's remarkable how she makes a big show of opposing the 'Pitchwagon', but only a few posts later carefully joins and feeds the growing suspicion against Lottie raised by Legate earlier, while at the same time agreeing with my questioning of one of Legate's points against Lottie, so it doesn't look like she's just latching on to him wholesale, if you get my meaning.

I asked for Legate to clarify, that doesn't mean I suspect him (I don't, I feel quite good about him). I also didn't say I suspect Lottie (though I'm not saying I trust her), just that the one post Legate pointed out is odd looking, I would need to look at her way more closely before I'd suspect her. And the difference between the Lottie wagon, and the one for you, is that you don't really look suspicious, you're acting like yourself, people are only considering you because they think everyone else suspects you (which really not many do). While Lottie actually seems to have some legitimate points against her.

I find it interesting that so far 2 people distrust me mainly for agreeing with them.

[wilwarin538]

Just got a call from the Boss, I don't have to work tonight so I can stay til DL. So since I now don't have to leave early, I'm going to take a break from the computer. I'll be back in about an hour.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

I have to agree, when I was reading through I was really surprised, I mean I know there isn't much more to talk about on Day 1, but still. We've all played before, we know how everything works, it's not like there's some new dynamic we have to worry about (maybe the double kills, but that discussion ends at "let's get a wolfie asap", which is nothing new really). The Seer can reveal when they feel like it, most of us have working brains, so I'm sure they don't need our advice. And the Cobbler very well may leave hints, but we're not trying to get rid of the Cobbler right now, we're trying to get rid of wolves, so lets focus on that for the moment, shall we? Any speculation right now about the Cobbler could leave us on a false trail super easily, and talking about the Seer too much can draw attention to the Seer.

I don't understand how it is a waste to discuss roles and possibilities. First off it is Day 1 and we need some sort of plan, as the wolves get to plan ahead of time. We can scrap this plan at any moment and go for another one, but we need to do something. Some like to look at reactions by throwing out and starting suspicion, some watch day 1 and organize all their thoughts into a few analytical posts, some form an exhaustive and impossible plan, others talk about roles and mechanics.

None of these are "wasteful" things to post, they all provide usable in-game info. The only waste is simply not posting and providing no info, or meta-game reasons. While I think it's nice to be aware of when people have to leave, if and when they'll be back before DL...etc I call it "waste" in the sense that it speaks towards no one's guilty or innocence.

And frankly, no none of us are stupid. Yes we all know how to use brains (sometimes I question the sanity of Lommy's, but she put her brain to good hard work last game). However, I have to ask what do you think is a bigger insult to our intelligence? Saying "cobbler is probably going to hint towards the wolves, more than vice versa," and "The seer/ranger/hunter should do blahdablah"? Or honestly thinking if I say "To the seer, dream of Lottie tonight!" and Shasta's gonna post "Aye Aye master Boro, I'm on it!"

The gifteds will follow their own minds, regardless of what people guess they should or will try to do. The reason I try to do it is to try and organize my jumbled mess of thoughts when thinking about who to vote for and who not to. It's silly to post "I won't vote for Agan, cus I think she's the ranger." But if I can start guessing what the cobbler would do in this situation, the wolves, the gifteds...etc than I can start putting people in groups accordingly.

I'm not understanding how it's an evil Melkor sign of evilness to discuss roles, or how it's a waste at all.

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

This strikes me as trying too hard. What 'Pitch-wagon'?

Day 1 wagons spring up from the most unexplainable beginnings. Voting's typically tight on Day 1 and sometimes it doesn't take more than 3 or 4 votes to get lynched. So acquiring 1 the person might feel jumpy or in danger, acquiring 2 and 3 you're names going to be sweating it to the the DL.

Pitch has one vote and there are low whispers of vague uneasiness about him. We've seen these situations before, and as I've joked with Pitch who never will be able to get rid of his "Mr. Agreeable" marking. Some reason or another, agreeableness = wolfiness. And while no one's come out to make strong statements of suspicion towards Pitch, there has been a consensus of general distrust. Beginning with Rikae's mention of uneasiness, and then Pitch's so called "jumpiness" from Agan and others. It has been no band-wagon of votes, but I'm getting the sense that Pitch is making people nervous and being "agreeable."

I mean if people can't think of stronger suspicions, who are they going to vote for when they have to...a random "no read" person, or someone who's made them a little nervous? It has all the marks of a band-wagon, just not the votes and I'm more scratching my head on the strong "refusal" of wilwa, not the spotting a bandwagon prematurely.

(I've probably crossed, so this is a pre-mature Edit: )

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Valier

I must say Lommy and Greenie seem a little uncharacteristicly quiet to me....

Yep, especially Lommy - what, first post and then nothing more for close to 30 hours or something, from a player renowned for her verbosity? What's the matter with her?
Greenie has posted a little more at least - mostly joining Mac in seeing cobbler hints in Agan's each and every post; which is entirely possible. I mean, Agan is daring enough to sort of hide in the open, and I remember an Agan-cobbler who talked about the cobbler all the time; but since our primary aim is not to lynch the cobbler but the wolves, I'm disinclined to vote her for the time being. It's when she starts other people of being the cobbler that I'll get worried about her.
I mean, really, early in the Day there sort of was a consensus that we've got to get a wolf ASAP in order to cut down the double Night-kills, but now some people have nothing better to do than looking for the cobbler? I'm looking at you, Mac.
Back to Greenie, her comment on the issue of Rikae vs me is very to-and-fro, with all that unless this, and unless that. Maybe genuine confusion, but I remember where giving her the benefit of doubt on this got me last time, so I'll be wary of her.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, first of all, why am I the spirit of muffins?!?! I demand an explanation!!!!!!!! >.<


Anyway, to business now, eh? (And with the added good news that I’m typing this post on Abigail, and thus able to bold people’s names. Exciting, I know!)


I’m not immediately suspicious of Lommie’s first post, but I find it interesting that she feels the need to remind us that we need to kill a wolf. Yes, I know, she didn’t really have anything else to say, and she is one to put forth substance (which is good), but her comment about the two kills being “disgusting” seems wrong to me. Just something to file away for later really.


Legate said “prolongate”. This keeps him safe from my Day 1 wrath, as he’s clearly insane.


Surprisingly, I like the lioness’s suggestion that the seer could come out if they dream a wolf straight off. Nerwen, anything you’d like to share? No? Sadness. As much as I hate to say it, I consider the seer an acceptable sacrifice if it means we can rid ourselves of the double kills. However, this also could run us into trouble if we have multiple reveals or what have you, as a wolf could “reveal” and condemn an innocent; we would be down an innocent (and imagine if the wolves managed to fake-dream our real seer! ) and the wolves, while down a wolf upon the next Day, would still have a double kill that Night. Basically, let’s just make sure that we weigh any reveals carefully. I think the wolves wouldn’t just fake reveal for the fun of it, but if their circumstances are dire (i.e. their double kills are threatened) they might take drastic action to maintain their advantage as long as possible. Proceed with caution, etc.


I agree with Pitch as well. Let’s not kill the newbie just because we can. If she’s a wolf, however....


I like Cailin. Let’s not kill her. That would make me cranky.


Boro has a very good point. Rather than saying what we shouldn’t do, why not talk about what we should? Lommie did this, as well as Agan. Pitch is very quick to specifically say not to kill BG, and several have said to be proactive rather than just grumble about Day 1. But how are we to tell which are good or evil, which are just pontificating and which are actually trying to further discussion? It’s impossible at this point, at least for me. ToMorrow we can loot the bodies; toDay let’s do all we can to prevent the bodies from multiplying overNight.


And yes please, no Shasta-wagon on me. No, I’m not a gifted, but I still don’t wanna die, thanks. I’d like to know why Lottie knee-jerked against me however. What’d I do now?


Now I shall briefly share a past experience. In the Library Game of Epic Wolf (and Cobbler) Fail, our beloved helper sent us his name first. I believe the system was the same, though I would love for Boro, Shasta, or Nessa to clarify. (I think Mac may have done it to myself and Nerwen too; my memory is a bit shoddy today, alas.) The point is that the cobbler could easily suggest themself toNight and basically give the wolves their identity. Of course they run the risk of being killed *cough* Boro *cough* but if it works it could pay off big time. And yeah, I know, I’ve probably given the cobbler ideas, but I think a clever cobbler would think of it anyway. I think it could be a serious problem for us if the cobbler is able to identify themself to the wolves, so if we catch the cobbler, I’d be more than happy to kill them (or at the very least have them hunted). Of course wolves must be our first priority but if the wolves know their cobbler and one of them is in danger, they could easily sacrifice their cobbler in order to keep their double kills. I don’t want a cobbler-cide to happen. I want to kill wolves. Thus, let’s make sure that, if the cobbler is killed, the village is the one doing it, and not the wolves, so the baddies can’t use the cobbler’s death to their advantage.


Looking back again, I find it even more confusing why I find Skip suspicious. Strange. It was probably his vote-spreading suggestion, which while good for protecting from unfortunate bandwagons is also good for allowing wolves to influence the vote without tying each other together.


Cailin thinks Pitch is very “polite’ and has answers for everything. The problem is that she seems to consider it a positive quality, whereas I find his preparation and forethought suspicious.


Nessa is....weird. Which is normal for her, I think, but it’s still....weird. I don’t want to lynch her just for giving figures, but I see that too often as a “helpful” wolf tactic, so I’m shaky.

Originally Posted by [b

Oz[/b]]Hey, I actually invented a way to lessen wolves chance of murdering one of gifteds, we can lynch one of them ourselves!* Has anyone seen*Shasta?

I’m glad I forgot to rep you for the last game we played together. Now I can rep you for that. ^_^


Kit is bizarre and (un)reasonable. Her predictions are very interesting.


Skip points out potential flaws in the seer reveal plan, different and yet just as valid ones as I did above. However, his words seem to ring false. He seems more interested in hushing the seer than in using them. Yes, it’s a risk, but if the seer reveals at the right time it could be a major blow to the wolves. I doubt anyone’s suggesting the seer reveal now, but rather when they have information that can be beneficial, both a wolf dream and trails to past dreams which we can trace posthumously. It seems to me like Skip wants to set the seer up on a shelf and not use them. Is he worried about being revealed as a wolf? Is he legitimately concerned for the seer’s welfare? Is he the seer himself? Or is he just arguing for the sake of it? Only time will tell, but for now I can’t feel comfortable with his post.


Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves. I wanted to save my thoughts until I was commenting on Mac’s post, because this is a good catch for Mac (which is to say that he made a good catch, not that he’s normally incapable of such a discovery). He also makes some mention of Agan being suspicious for bladdity blah blah, which I’d love for him to explain if he’s able. I don’t disagree with him, but I don’t see it as an immediate ping either, so I’d love his opinion.


Haha. Kath points out Pitch’s inconsistency as well. Not inconsistent so much as a bit too perfect until you inspect it a bit closer, I suppose, but still. He seems to be trying to hard to point out things that look helpful, yet accuses others for doing the same. He seems too....I don’t even know, as my brain is sort of flopping in all different directions, but I certainly don’t like what he’s been saying (or at least how he’s been saying it). Pitch is far too smooth, and Kath’s notice of his commentary on Oz’s post highlights that. He seems to be the ultimately helpful villager, even poking at those who may be participating less and urging them to be more forceful and less obvious/lazy/blah blah. My brain is getting away from me, but basically he’s highly disconcerting and plastic.


Agan’s #40 had me feeling happy until I read “I like X but that doesn’t mean they’re innocent” twice within ten seconds. I’m very undecided on her, but I know it’s partly because she’s ragging on me for not having any internet. I think she’s a bit too casual with her suspicions, which makes me wonder why. It seems to be mostly this post though, which is even weirder than weirder. I need to step back and think more about her.


Re: Lottie’s #44. Thanks, dear. Thanks a lot. *whimpers, sniffles, feels unloved*


I love that Kit is going to defiantly post. What are you in defiance of? *winks*


BG’s #47 is so bloody bizarre. I can’t decide whether or not she’s serious about Oz. And she’s just not going to vote? If you suspect someone, you vote. (Like I said, her Oz suspicion almost has to be a joke, but....I just don’t know.) This is very confusing. :/


Dun makes sense and eats his pillow. The two conditions are not mutually exclusive. I like him.

Nope, I lied. He talks about Nessa’s odds talk and then mentions my name. I totally missed something. I don’t suppose I could get clarification?


Mac continues to make sense in his #53. The wolves likely won’t hint to the cobbler. The cobbler, however, will hint to the wolves. Thus my above cobblery thoughts.



And with that I’ve read up to my #60. Posting this and will share more after lunch.

[Inziladun]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Is this because you're at work?

As a matter of fact, I was at home when I wrote that, but on call, which means no alcohol. That said, I think Guinness could potentially be very beneficial to my work productivity.

Speaking of which, I'm trying to eat something now, and have things to do for the next two hours, so further from me toDay is looking doubtful.

I'm unsure enough about Pitch that I'll let that particular wagon pass me by just now.

Nessa seems off; the "oddsmaking" post just looks like trying to seem helpful. That sort of thing would be understandable in the Endgame, but really, why do that on Day 1, except to say something for the sake of not being a submarine?

So....

++Nessa

Thin, I know, but I'm afraid that's all you'll get toDay.

Later, compadres.

[Kath]

Well and that's the dilemma isn't it?

Is it a bandwagon against an innocent Pitch pushed by evil doers ... or is it that an evil Pitch is struggling and has been caught out.

If the latter it IS a bandwagon but not necessarily a bad one.

BUT - it's Day 1. Very rarely do we get that lucky and get a wolf based on a slip. And either way a bandwagon is never a brilliant thing because it provides less to work from when looking at how people have voted.

So, whether Pitch is evil or not, it would be good to get the votes spread out. At the moment it looks like half the village will go for Pitch, and half the village will go for someone who suspects Pitch ... well at least it will be spread out.

Anyway, a slow review of what's been happening will appear soon enough. Though I'm working on a little computer so it'll be slower than usual.

Oh and to answer Rikae: I didn't realise we only had one retractable all game, I thought it was each Day.

[Thinlómien]

It's rather funny I myself said "no slacking" and here I am with one post this far. But now that I've sent my distraction back to Prague, I can fully concentrate until the DL if I wish.

Originally Posted by Kath

Lommy - I would take offence at my inability to play Day 1 being made into a verb, but as I thought I'd done it again I can't.

Poor Kath! I'm sorry.

Originally Posted by Zil

I had a dream I was eating Frosted Mini Wheats, and when I woke up my pillow was gone.

Unless I get any serious suspicions, I will vote Zil just because he made me spill tea on my keyboard.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Alors, my friends, I am here at last.

*loves Greenie to pieces*

Originally Posted by Boro

Yes we all know how to use brains (sometimes I question the sanity of Lommy's, but she put her brain to good hard work last game)

HEY!!! Am I supposed to take that as a compliment?!

Originally Posted by Pitch

Yep, especially Lommy - what, first post and then nothing more for close to 30 hours or something, from a player renowned for her verbosity? What's the matter with her?

Legate was here so I was a bit distracted, but as I said above, he's now on his way home so I should be around. Three hours to make up for the long silence!

Okay, and seemingly I have nothing to say, or more like, my thoughts are scattered randomly around my brain. I'll make a list to try to make some sense out of this.

[Pitchwife]

Wow, Sally is back in her familiar splendour. That's nice, although I disagree with practically everything she says.
For clarification:

Originally Posted by Sally

Pitch is very quick to specifically say not to kill BG

This is because I remember a game where she was lynched for sheer newbishness (much like the kind in her post about Ozzy) on D1 and had a nervous breakdown subsequently. I don't want to see that repeated toDay; later in the game is a different matter. Besides, didn't you agree with me a few lines further up?

Originally Posted by Sally

Kit is bizarre and (un)reasonable. Her predictions are very interesting.

What's bizarre and unreasonable about her? Didn't she say the same things about me which you're now reiterating in oh so many words?

Originally Posted by Sally

Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves. I wanted to save my thoughts until I was commenting on Mac’s post, because this is a good catch for Mac (which is to say that he made a good catch, not that he’s normally incapable of such a discovery).

Sorry, that's not that damaging at all, and I think you're putting words in his mouth here; especially as skip later explained himself by referring to Lommy's last game.

No time to comment on the rest of this epic post, I'll have to come back to it in a quieter hour.

[Valier]

not quite sure I like Inzil's vote for Nessa....because there is always at least one person who has to do the math. Seems an easy wolfish vote maybe?.... Yay Lommy's here!!! It's been a long time since we have played together, so I wont be voting for you....yet I am very unsure about my vote today....I'm leaning towards Rikae or Inzil at the moment, but you never can tell wang..

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

HEY!!! Am I supposed to take that as a compliment?!

It's supposed to be taken in the same way that Bilbo meant "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you, half as well as you deserve"

That was more of a way for me to remember you're playing. I can't stay to the DL and began thinking about who to vote for, since I work completely backwards in thinking more about who I don't want to vote for. So, I viewed the player list and remembered several people I had forgotten about, you, Manwe, Nessa, Greenie, and Shasta to name a few.

This group of the "I've forgotten" is where my vote is leaning towards, but I've honestly gotten tired of voting for you. That was my check/poking to see if you were paying attention, or even alive. Looks like it worked!

[skip spence]

Have just browsed the thread.

Votes so far:
Cailin -> Agan
Kitanna -> Pitchwife
Legate -> Lottie
Rikae -> Wilwa
Inzil -> Nessa

Just a quick comment on this, will be back a bit later (1 h?) with more.

Originally Posted by Sally

Skip points out potential flaws in the seer reveal plan, different and yet just as valid ones as I did above. However, his words seem to ring false. He seems more interested in hushing the seer than in using them. Yes, it’s a risk, but if the seer reveals at the right time it could be a major blow to the wolves. I doubt anyone’s suggesting the seer reveal now, but rather when they have information that can be beneficial, both a wolf dream and trails to past dreams which we can trace posthumously. It seems to me like Skip wants to set the seer up on a shelf and not use them. Is he worried about being revealed as a wolf? Is he legitimately concerned for the seer’s welfare? Is he the seer himself? Or is he just arguing for the sake of it? Only time will tell, but for now I can’t feel comfortable with his post.


Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves.

Think you are twisting my words, unintentionally or not. I clarified to Mac (as I remember) that I don't suggest that the Seer should suspect or clear ONLY those he or she is sure about. That would indeed be a great risk of exposure. I did say the Seer should be careful not to point a finger at one specific unknown. As I said, we had a bad recent experience when this happened. Didn't you also play that game?

Edit: X'ed from 98 and down

[Ozban]

Sally I wanted to "read some more from you"...
But THIS???
This is gonna take some time.

[wilwarin538]

Boro, I think I'm just tired of seeing the same conversations every Day 1. If something new had been brought up fine, but that wasn't the case, it was the same old stuff about roles we're all familiar with. Yeah, I get that we need to start discussion somewhere (and no I can't think of really anything else to talk about at the beginning), but I felt it was continuing for a bit too long, when there was now actual people to talk about. And honestly, telling the Seer to not be too obvious with their hints, and to make sure to reveal if they have important information, is insulting their intelligence, and stating that we should keep an eye out for Cobbler hints is sort of obvious, and doesn't warrant so much talk.

But moving on...

Originally Posted by Sally

Okay, first of all, why am I the spirit of muffins?!?! I demand an explanation!!!!!!!! >.<

Because they are awesome, and everyone should want to be the spirit of muffins. Oh, and I'm happy you have the chance to participate, but I forgot how crazy long your posts are, my ADD doesn't like you right now . *sigh* But I'll read it anyway...

[Valier]

just had to say...I really dislike it when people tell the Seer what to do or well hint at what to do...Most of us have played this game enough that if we were the seer we would know what to do and know when the appropriate time to reveal ourself is. Also the seer should know not to point too directly at anyone unless they did dream of a wolf annnnd if they are in fear of getting lynched. enough said on the seer point please!!

[Nogrod]

As I see two people have of late entertained the idea of voting Manwë let me re-state what I said in the admin thread yesterday:

Originally Posted by the Mod

I realised Manwë said this already before Christmas:

So a modfire will not threathen him unless he is away from the game two Days in a row after January the 5th. Also, he will be mod-protected against any attempt to his life up to the 5th as he has notified us about his time-table problems early enough.

That I think is only fair as he notified us of his situation like three weeks ago.

[Valier]

thanks wilwa you pretty much said what I was thinking and tried to say...You look ok in my books...so far.

[Pitchwife]

Time to think about a vote.
I'm not going to vote for Cailín and Valier in their first game in ages, and Manwe for the same reason plus per Nogmod's decree. Not for BG for reasons specified above. Not for Boro and skip because I like them, and not for Agan, Kit, Legate, Ozzy, Rikae, Zil and Shasta because I'd like to see more of them. Not for Lottie because that would be the easy way out.
Sally I don't yet know what to think of.
I'm feeling squeamish about wilwa (but her response to me has eased my stomach a bit) and Greenie.
I might vote Mac for his cobbler-hunting, which I feel is a counterproductive distraction at this point. Or alternatively one of the quieter ones, preferably either L.Ron's daughter (whose single post was basically agreeing with a lot of people and latching on to the Pitch-suspicion) or Nessa, who hasn't been very productive either and also has that "Rikae-knows-something-we-don't" thing against her.
And I've no idea about anybody else (which is an awful lot of people).

EDIT: x-ed from #102 down.

[Thinlómien]

Eomer of the Rohirrim - has totally flown under my radar, which is not typical of him. Not sure what to make of it.

elronds_daughter - nothing seems terribly off if not totally right either. Won't judge her yet.

Macalaure - I find him - funny enough - very innocent. And besides it's been ages since I played with him and I like playing him a lot so I won't vote for him toDay unless he totally changes his course.

Shastanis Althreduin - elusive. Can't think of a better word for him.

Loslote - she's been suspected by several people and I don't totally understand why. I can't make much out of her or the suspicions against her, but it's possibly because I couldn't concentrate very throughly on reading. (I blame my friend who is sick and has possibly made me catch it too, I don't feel completely healthy.)

Kitanna - must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1 must not suspect her must not vote her on Day1

wilwarin538 - seems to be a little touchy which in my books is usually a sign of some RL stress or lack of time: Wilwa can keep her cool both as a wolf and as a gifted when being under as low pressure as the current one. Ergo, won't judge her based on that.

Nessa Telrunya - if the only thing we get from her is slightly faulty maths, it's definitely something to make me riase my eyebrows. Trying to look helpful?

Pitchwife - 1) I like a lot of his points/posts. 2) He is jumpy. So, another unsure for me, I'm afraid.

Satansaloser2005 - gives me a little fishy vibes. Something off with that long post of hers, but can't really pinpoint it. And I had a dream of her last night, she wanted to watch Jack Sparrow in drag from my iPod but I refused it based on the fact that my iPod had too little battery left, so I'm kind of feeling amusedly affectionate towards her atm, which might blur my perception of her.

Inziladun - seems ok this far: sharp, to the point and funny. On the other hand, he made me spill my tea.

Rikae - reminds me of light cavalry: comes quickly, stabs and retreats before anyone can retaliate, keeps out of sight. Whether light cavalry equals wolf, I'm not sure, because it honestly more like equals horse.

Boromir88 - I'm aware nobody has any reason to trust my "bororadar" anymore after last game, but I could almost bet he's innocent. It's just the tone, kind of uncompromising "take it or leave it, I'm here" attitude which he simply doesn't have when he is a wolf.

A Little Green - is making puns related to her latest RPG character whom I adored so I have hard time being objective when judging her. But I do like her this time, sharp and independent-minded as ever.

Blind Guardian - seems utterly confused. Dear BG, I believe Ozban was being sarcastic when he suggested lynching the gifted (if you were too and I missed that, apologies!) Anyway, I've never played with her before, so I'm observing with care and hesitant to vote her toDay - especially as I gather it would be rather unsportsmanlike.

Skip Spence - doesn't give any vibes one way or another. Clearly the Swedes feel safe around their reindeer.

Mänwe - looking forward to seeing him post! It has been ages since he last played.

Valier - starting to understand why I named her Bias of Priene of all philosophers when I was told to assign Greek philosophers for everybody. Seems like the normal Valier, looking forward to seeing the famous gut-feelings kick-in full power, haha.

Legate of Amon Lanc - seems like his normal self which - as I learned last game if not earlier - means absolutely nothing. Keeping my eye on him, although not too optimistic about the detecting capability.

Aganzir - is all over the place again. Yes, she could be the cobbler. Yes, she could be anything else. And yes, she totally loves the attention she's getting. So, until she says something that really indicates either guilt or innocence, I'm going to ignore her. (For the time being, that is.)

Ozban - never played with him but modded his first and latest game. Can't tell much from what he's posting yet. Doesn't at least drastically differ from his first game ordo self.

Caílin - I'm very happy she plays after such a long time. Yay! Meaning I won't vote her toDay but I'll keep an eye on her because I naturally tend to suspect her as much as I suspect her fiance.

Kath - also happy to see her playing. We haven't played in the same game for a while! This makes me slightly disinclined to vote her toDay. Haven't seen anything very suspicious about her yet.


edit: xed with everyone

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by wilwarin538

Boro, I think I'm just tired of seeing the same conversations every Day 1. If something new had been brought up fine, but that wasn't the case, it was the same old stuff about roles we're all familiar with. Yeah, I get that we need to start discussion somewhere (and no I can't think of really anything else to talk about at the beginning), but I felt it was continuing for a bit too long, when there was now actual people to talk about. And honestly, telling the Seer to not be too obvious with their hints, and to make sure to reveal if they have important information, is insulting their intelligence, and stating that we should keep an eye out for Cobbler hints is sort of obvious, and doesn't warrant so much talk.

But moving on...

Fairy nuff. I can see the annoyance of going through the motions and doing the same old. And with this being pretty basic, I can see how there shouldn't be much to discuss about the seer and other gifteds. I get to wondering why if someone says "seer," we get reactions like the person just shouted "fire" in a theater.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Lottie

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Lommy

Valier - starting to understand why I named her Bias of Priene of all philosophers when I was told to assign Greek philosophers for everybody.

So you're responsible for that part of the game? Please, if we have a say in the matter, it should be obvious that I'd like to be Diogenes the Cynic (the whole dog business, and the bit with the lamp that Zil found 'forced'.). I promise not to be indecent in public, though.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I get to wondering why if someone says "seer," we get reactions like the person just shouted "fire" in a theater.

Hehe, speaking of which, I thought I wanted to share the following story: recently, I accidentally distracted myself and the other players in a tabletop RPG because I twice heard "seer woman pale as snow" instead of "see a woman pale as snow" and thus wrote down an ancient riddle incorrectly. (After the game my friend who was the game master and who is not a 'downer told me I have played too much ww and she almost cracked up when I quoted the riddle to the other players. )

edit: xed with Shasta and Pitch

[wilwarin538]

So I don't like Cupcake's massive post. The main reason for this will not be stated, for hopefully obvious reasons.

Other reasons:

Kit is bizarre and (un)reasonable

Why? Quotes would be helpful.

Aaaaand the most damaging point against Skip is brought up first in Mac’s #35. If the seer only suspects wolves (or, for that matter, only vindicates innocents), they become an instant target for the wolves.

I think you're mis-representing him. That isn't what he said, he wants the Seer to not focus strongly on one person, unless they have dreamt them. I think this one has already been pointed out, but in the past we lynched an innocent because the Seer had focused on them in such a way that it looked like they had dreamt them guilty (when they obviously hadn't).

The fact that this post doesn't include quotes or post numbers makes it really hard to figure out what Sally was looking at when she came to these various conclusions. And then there's that thing she said that I strongly dislike.

x'ed since Lommy's list

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Looks to me like a whole lot of over-analysis!

Getting somewhat wolvish vibes from Nessa, Skip and Loslote; I always want to kill Kitanna, Greenie, Lommy and Kath and nothing's changed on that count, though traditional feelings are rarely valid in any given game.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Shastanis Althreduin

++Lottie

*ping*
And here comes the alternative bandwagon, right?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Pitch

So you're responsible for that part of the game? Please, if we have a say in the matter, it should be obvious that I'd like to be Diogenes the Cynic (the whole dog business, and the bit with the lamp that Zil found 'forced'.). I promise not to be indecent in public, though.

I believe I actually gave you the honour of being Socrates.

And before I raise more suspicion with my dubious statements: Agan, Legate and I were assisting Nogrod in giving out the roles by assigning Greek philosophers from Greek philosopher playing cards to all players so that Nogrod could later (obviously when we were not present anymore!) randomise the roles with the assistance of those cards. And no, I don't remember which philosophers we assigned to which people (except a few), maybe Nog will share them after the game. And as a further disclaimer, the philosophers will - or so Nog told us - play no further part in this game or narrations, so I'm not spoiling you of anything or know anymore than you do.


edit: xed with everyone again

[satansaloser2005]

Kit is bizarre because she is. I didn't say it was a bad thing, after all. Just strange.


And I reference post numbers, but alas can't make with the linky when I'm typing in Word and have no net to do stuff with, sorry. Posts are responded to in chronological order however.


I have to go. I'll be late getting back to work. >.<