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11-11-2008, 09:51 AM | #81 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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It is clear enough that all the people with clear conscience - with the possible exception of the seer - will vote for a representative someone s/he thinks has a good judgement and can bring down a wolf or whom s/he thinks is a wolf that could slip under pressure being forced to make a decision on the lynch (or whom s/he would just like to find out in this game - as to see how s/he performs).
As I come to think of it, this game actually seems to favour the wolves as they can hide behind voting "just" for a representative and are thus not forced to vote every Day for a lynch, if not consistently voted a representative. Looking at the brighter side we will have twice the time to discuss things everyDay and the new dynamics might even help us here on the latter parts of the Day to counter the balance back. But what will be something like a central issue in this game later on after we get some actual data of people behaving in different ways in different stuations & actually voting - and I'm looking forwards to it as it looks like a challenge indeed - is how we should judge the way the wolves will vote and how they will do it in the end. (Hah, I said this was an unproductive topic and here I go... )
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11-11-2008, 10:04 AM | #82 |
Wight
Join Date: Oct 2008
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++No Filibuster So that's out of the way.
I have to go back and read the, like, 2,319 posts I missed, but it seems as though we do want to limit the number of reps for now. 7 seems a reasonable number to me, but then as phantom pointed out, my name is very vowelly.
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11-11-2008, 10:07 AM | #83 | ||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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However, all this situation and the model of the game is too new for us, I think, that we have yet to explore the nuances and how actually various choices go and work and impact on the game here... Quote:
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11-11-2008, 10:13 AM | #84 |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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Also.
I'd say we should not shy away from actually trying to suspect people on this first Day as well even if there are a host of interesting new things to speculate upon. We should use the extra time we have to discuss things and to call for all the people to participate. You all know what democracy with 60% partake-rate (too many submarines) and not discussing the actual topics that influence our welfare (the identity of the werewolves) is. Just the "politics as usual" which will get us nowhere. And just to prevent the all too usual protests: I'm not saying we have too many submarines right now. It's still possible that some Europeans have not gotten from work, study etc. But I truly wish all people will in the end of the Day have participated according to their resources. And I'm trying to encourage that. I need to take a break now but will come back with hopefuly some more to the point thoughts on players thus far.
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11-11-2008, 10:18 AM | #85 | |
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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I wouldn't try that in the endgame but might well consider trying it on the early Days - knowledgeable of the risk involved. But as you said, we will have to see how this plays out.
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11-11-2008, 10:18 AM | #86 |
Everlasting Whiteness
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I'm with Lommy on the filibustering issue ... oh, or I was until she just changed her mind. I think having a filibuster toDay wouldn't be too much of a problem - it would be a good chance to see how it works, and it would be better to test it out earlier rather than later.
I'm so intrigued by this idea of representatives. I want to see how it works. I think we do need some kind of limit so we don't end up with too many people but I don't think there is any way to control that so we'll just have to see how it goes toDay. By the way am I right about it being a 4am deadline for GMT?
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11-11-2008, 10:24 AM | #87 | ||||
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Edit: xed with everyone since's Nogrod's post #81
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11-11-2008, 10:27 AM | #88 | ||
Flame of the Ainulindalë
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After this I really need to close the browser without refreshing it or I'll never get out from here...
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11-11-2008, 10:45 AM | #89 | |
Shady She-Penguin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: In a far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 8,093
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Wow, mister Nogrodman actually makes a lot of sense.
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Speaking of these issues, I'd rather have lots of "weak" representatives than just a few people who wield immense power. It would strike me as more democratic and less dangerous. And lastly, since no one has brought it up yet, it's perfectly possible that innocent people will elect one or more wolves as their representatives and thereby wolves could be trying to seem reasonable and trustworthy just to gather innocent rep votes. Which means I'm not going to vote anyone who seems too sane to be my representative. edit: xed with Nog, Nog, Kath, Boro, Nog
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11-11-2008, 10:55 AM | #90 | ||
Woman of Secret Shadow
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: in hollow halls beneath the fells
Posts: 4,511
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Hello I'm here. Sorry to come so late but a friend of mine begged she coud cook for me and I just didn't have the heart to say no. However, I should write a paper for tomorrow and I am tired and in a rather bad mood so I don't know how much I'm going to post.
I don't care how many representatives we have. I'm going to vote for the one I think will see to my interests the best. Besides the less reps there are, the greater their power, which I don't find a good thing. Also, I don't care if my rep can be around at deadline or not. As for deadline, it is 6am my time and I'm not going to be around that late (nor wake up that early, for that matter). And should anybody vote me for a rep, they would also have to bear in mind that my votes will be cast early. Quote:
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I don't care if there are filibusters or not, at least for now. Okay I really don't have anything to say. I'll try to get my paper at least half done and then concentrate on coming up with opinions on people.
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11-11-2008, 10:55 AM | #91 | |||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
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EDIT: X-ed since the Boro I am quoting
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11-11-2008, 11:06 AM | #92 | |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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A filibuster may occur at any time during the entire Day period of 48 hours. More than one may occur in any one day, however each player has only one filibuster at their disposal.
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11-11-2008, 11:13 AM | #93 | ||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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(Wow. I never thought before how much, when written, this seems like Finnish... ) Though not, of course, that's why I spoke about some 5 or 6 or so representatives looking as an optimal number from my part. Hauevaa, while you are right that it depends on every player's common sense, it is always worth pointing that out to give others food for thought - and then apply their common sense enrichened by the conscious reflection of what has been said on the topic. Isn't that what we do with all things in WW? EDIT: x-ed with Fea. Okay, so I was right
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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11-11-2008, 11:36 AM | #94 |
Werewolf Psychic
Join Date: Apr 2007
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Boro and Phantom seem to be nicely buddy-buddy today, don't they?
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
11-11-2008, 11:47 AM | #95 | |
Laconic Loreman
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I doubt anyone is going to be choosing their reps on a whim, or based solely on the fact that their rep wants to lynch the same person. I have high expectations. Someone I trust is innocent, and someone who will repesent me, I expect both. End of story. If you can't live up to that, tough luck. Which is why I'm confused to why exactly you ruled out the phantom so soon? Explain it to me, was it a joke for some laughs, and a little fun at what you promised earlier? I mean really if we follow your logic for not wanting to choose the phantom right now, you can say that about anyone in this village. I see no reason you should trust anyone right now, but right off the bat you said it aint gonna be the phantom. You didn't exclude anyone else, just the phantom. By no means am I saying the phantom should be a representative, but the question is why should we immediately exclude anyone? Because of the history? Are you afraid history will repeat itself if you make the same mistakes? Why does what Day we're on make any difference? This is a clean slate, a brand new ball game. If I was to use such a weak excuse as "history" for not choosing a rep, I could come up with some cockamamy reason for anyone in this village except Ilya.
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11-11-2008, 11:53 AM | #96 |
Werewolf Psychic
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Boro, you could say history doesn't matter, but look at how much Phantom has already said! History tends to repeat itself, after all.
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
11-11-2008, 11:59 AM | #97 |
Beloved Shadow
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I'm slowly catching up on everyone's posts. I'll respond to them a few at a time.
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11-11-2008, 12:02 PM | #98 | |
Laconic Loreman
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Or look at it this way...if history has any bearing on what will happen now, and if the phantom's a wolf, well we're all screwed now anyway. All we can do now is fight against the inevitable defeat.
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11-11-2008, 12:10 PM | #99 | |||
Beloved Shadow
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And this goes for the next comment as well- Quote:
That is massive contradiction. A strong rep will vote the way he feels. A weak rep will hide behind those that elected him. Nogrod made an excellent point on this matter already- Quote:
Of course it would be done less obviously than that, but you get the point surely.
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11-11-2008, 12:19 PM | #100 | |||
Beloved Shadow
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I still don't understand the anti-filibuster votes. What's the point? We've been given a unique set up and we're basically voting to normalize it. Where's your spirit of adventure?
Do you actually fear it will be put to use with negative consequences here on Day 1? Oh well. Quote:
If people sit around and then suddenly try to turn themselves into reps after the first couple days then suspicion will go up. I would think it would be best to become a trusted rep as soon as possible. For at least a couple of the Wolves anyway. I'd think you would always want a bit of voting power, just in case. Quote:
Di had floated the idea that Fea would show favoritism (make me a Wolf) based on our relationship, and I think I was within bounds to respond and display that the favoritism could also work in the other direction. Quote:
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11-11-2008, 12:28 PM | #101 | ||
Beloved Shadow
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Wait just a minute here. First you are on about how reps should consider everyone else's wishes and not be to self-willed, and then you go and agree with Nogrod about how Reps should stand up and not be wishy-washy? Just what are you up to, Legate? (still reading.... on to page 3...)
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11-11-2008, 12:39 PM | #102 |
Flame Imperishable
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Yes I am here
Good evening, peoples of the world.
Glad I got that out of the way. *laughs* ++Shasta see, nothing happened! Anyway, I can see that Shasta is probably going to be voted as a rep, maybe based on previous game experiences. Hmmm... Interesting game so far- And its only Day 1!
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11-11-2008, 12:40 PM | #103 |
Flame Imperishable
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That's just his plan- no-one can ever analyse all his posts so they can't get a good reading on him.
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11-11-2008, 12:42 PM | #104 | ||
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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I'm going to have to agree with tp on this one. It is definately comforting if someone is always voting for what their base wants, but I don't think we can put our feet up next to the fire entirely when a representative can have as many innocents as wolves in their ranks. The concerning thing is, they don't even have to know it. I think we're forgetting that a leader is not their own island, and that the 'power supreme' is as much in their lobbyist as is themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if at least one representative had a few puppeteers to act for, and think they we're being free as a bird. As my dad would say, It's not always the top of the totem pole that is the strongest. On that note, I have to leave for awhile to take my feline child to the vet for a check up on her stitches. Should be back before any deadlines. ~ Ka
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11-11-2008, 12:42 PM | #105 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Skyrim, again.
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Now I'm picturing a filibuster where all I do is talk about the phantom's posts.
I can taste the possibilities from here.
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11-11-2008, 12:44 PM | #106 | ||||
Beloved Shadow
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Sweet. I can make a new Ranger tonight! Quote:
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11-11-2008, 12:44 PM | #107 | ||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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May I have a counter-question, Boro, though (if it is clear, if not, ask more) - what was your reason to ask me this? If you only could formulate why are you asking me about that, "why did I name tp in particular". Thank ye. Quote:
EDIT: x-ed since Phantom I quoted (i.e. with posts after #99)
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11-11-2008, 12:45 PM | #108 | |
Flame Imperishable
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Gah! Foiled!
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11-11-2008, 12:48 PM | #109 |
Flame Imperishable
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I think it would also amuse Fea to make you a WW, so that everyone will vote you as a rep and then you will vote badly (purposefully).
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11-11-2008, 12:51 PM | #110 | |
Beloved Shadow
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Just to be clear...
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At the time you seemed to strongly favor a "weak" rep, who would do the will of the people. But then a couple other people made some points, and you appeared to flip-flop violently.
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11-11-2008, 12:52 PM | #111 | |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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It would amuse me to do a great deal of things. But I wouldn't rely too much on suspicions in that vein: assuming I did handpick roles (and one should never assume), I highly doubt people (even you, phantom) would be able to trace my motives down to an accurate shortlist, since my motives are rarely traceable. However I certainly invite you all to try to figure out who I would have picked, had I picked. I like being the center of attention, and it's as good a way to spend Day One as any.
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11-11-2008, 12:53 PM | #112 |
Werewolf Psychic
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: In fire, water, earth, and air. But mostly water.
Posts: 2,832
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Why would you say that? I'm "doomed to be forever right, but forever not listened to", according to Wikipedia.
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Shasta– ... However, if he's innocent his famous clairvoyant powers must be taking the week off. Meanwhile, the Night-kills have been awfully effective– almost like we're dealing with a psychic wolf... - Nerwen, WW LXXV |
11-11-2008, 12:55 PM | #113 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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EDIT: x-ed since my last post
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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11-11-2008, 12:58 PM | #114 | |||
Leaf-clad Lady
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Here at last. Hello. Sorry for taking so long, it's been a busy day. (And seemingly a busy Day as well.) So, first off, some thoughts on toDay's posts.
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I'll be back with more stuff. Beware. EDIT: x-ed since, gasp, phantom's #101 - 13 posts before mine! Slow down, people. Really.
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11-11-2008, 01:00 PM | #115 | |
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: In that far land beyond the Sea
Posts: 7,431
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"Should the story say 'he ate bread,' the dramatic producer can only show 'a piece of bread' according to his taste or fancy, but the hearer of the story will think of bread in general and picture it in some form of his own." -On Fairy-Stories |
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11-11-2008, 01:00 PM | #116 |
La Belle Dame sans Merci
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Any future direct quotation of Immanuel Kant shall result in modfire. *shudders*
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11-11-2008, 01:01 PM | #117 | |
Beloved Shadow
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11-11-2008, 01:04 PM | #118 |
Beloved Shadow
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Wish Lalaith was here. She'd be able to testify to the fact that a manipulative-lying-through-his-teeth Phantom can be quite deadly to opposing Werewolves.
Question my means if you'd like, Legate, but never my intentions or motives.
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11-11-2008, 01:11 PM | #119 | |
Beloved Shadow
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This whole village is a set up! Gah! What did I do to you to deserve this, Fea? But no, there actually aren't any Werewolves, are there? We'll discover at the end that the moral was that the government causes rifts and starts fights, and that the people should rise up above it and excercise their power to stop the madness. Actually, that's quite an idea. Werewolves, I have an idea! We can make peace! If you will agree not to kill us during the night, we will agree not to try and lynch you during the day. Why continue this conflict? Let us strike a truce!
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11-11-2008, 01:12 PM | #120 | ||
A Voice That Gainsayeth
Join Date: Nov 2006
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Though point well taken. If we don't post any suspicions or such, we may not judge whether the Rep, who is otherwise a reliable person and whom we'd like to see as a leader, is not actually showing signs of Wolfishness. I am going to post some list on what I think about people, then, soon. Quote:
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