Werewolf XLII, Mist in the Barrow Downs

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And if we had started to discuss about it, you would have put our names on your suspect list, saying "they are discussing senseless things". Tsk tsk.

Nopes. Since I was the one who started it, I could hardly do it without looking seriously evil. In fact, I was looking for people who sneakily furthered the senseless discussion without giving their own opinion on it (to maintain a helpful image). But now nobody looks moderately suspicious to me, yet. Ah, well....

*makes himself a werewolf dowsing rod*

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Nopes. Since I was the one who started it, I could hardly do it without looking seriously evil.

You could always have said you were just trying us.

Anyway, Mac's response is the most innocent-looking thing I have seen about him thus far.

[McCaber]

Richard the Unobscure strode in from the southern fields, imposing in his priestly robes and massive warhammer.

"Asleep for this whole time? Not I. While you were here jawing, I was out hunting ... wolf."

He threw down a large sack and five wolf heads spilled out onto the ground.

"Now, to business. Though the Day is not yet half gone, some have stood out as suspicious to me so far. I am not in favor of Menel simply agreeing with an earlier post and not bringing anything new to the table. I also did not like the sound of Macalaure's speech, up until this last post, which might do much towards changing my mind.

EDIT: crossed with Aganzir

[Meneltarmacil]

I wasn't just repeating others' arguments there, at least I don't think so. True, I agreed with Nogrod that Rikae was talking nonsense, but the part about people using their own playing styles regardless of their role hadn't been brought up here. I argued against Nogrod's lynching using my own arguments.

Now, I'm not sure what to make of Mac's declaration that he was only trying to get a wolf to slip up. It's most likely genuine, but it could be a trick by a wolf to avoid being caught. Rikae continues to worry me, though. She apparently thinks a "conventional vs. weird" debate has merit, and also advocates using gut feelings. Not that there's anything wrong with using instinct, but "I have a gut feeling about him" would be a good way for a wolf to sway the voting without having to make up a reason.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now, one thing I would like to ask about - Greenie, do you actually see Sally's "suspicion" of Nogrod as serious? I'm quite sure it isn't, and the fact that you use it as a basis to suspect Sally doesn't look good.

Well, this could be answered with another question: are any suspicions here (including mine, mind you) actually serious, or rather, well-based or truly substantial? I should guess they aren't, which of course makes suspecting people at this phase no less important. My point is: though our suspicions at this point (generally) cannot have a good basis, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't suspect people at all. On the contrary, we should suspect as much as we can, to gather some substance to plant better suspicions on.

I didn't answer Rikae's question straightly, though... Was that answer enough, or do you want me to explain some more?

Now, then, about the whole "let's lynch the one who looks most suspicious" -theory-thingy. While I understand the point that the one who is considered suspicious-looking is often an ordo, I could respond by asking what do people mean by the term suspicious-looking. I understand it simply as who do I suspect to be a wolf, and logically I vote for one I suspect. What is the other option? Vote for the one I find least suspicious? Or rather, choose randomly?

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

She apparently thinks a "conventional vs. weird" debate has merit, and also advocates using gut feelings. Not that there's anything wrong with using instinct, but "I have a gut feeling about him" would be a good way for a wolf to sway the voting without having to make up a reason.

I'm surprised you, of all people, should think that a theory arguing against lynching the odd and conspicuous doesn't have merit, Menel! You are exactly the sort of player I was thinking of as being frequently, and wrongly, lynched on day one.

As for gut feelings, if you'll reread my post you'll see that I actually said I don't want people voting or suspecting without giving reasons. Still, gut feelings can help us decide whose posts to examine more closely, and exploring why the person in question "feels furry" can be useful. Are they cautious? Overly friendly? Forced?

Well, you can take or leave my advice as you will; this is what has worked best for my ancestors.

A few preliminary thoughts:

Aganzir - I'm a bit uneasy about her. She seemed to go from being eager to start arguments, to being eager to smooth them over. Then again, I don't want to be hasty - I've suspected her in every game we've played together, I think, so it may be that her style bothers me.
Legate - Is absent.
Nogrod - Shockingly quiet. I find nothing to suspect in his post, but he is, of course, a wolf.
Lommy - Where oh where is dear little Lommy? Way down yonder in the pawpaw patch... (note: this is just a song, so Nogrod need not get himself lynched over it.)
McCaber - Five wolves, eh? I guess we're all set, then, and then some... hmm. I'm not sure going after Menel right now is really justified - these accusations seem almost deliberately weak.
Sally - Sally is being silly - nothing wrong with that - but if she doesn't get down to the serious business at hand soon, I shall become concerned about her.
Gwathagor - Apparently lost in the mist.
A Little Green - As I said before, her failure (deliberate?) to see that Sally was joking is worrisome.
Macalaure - His talk about "senseless things" is odd. I don't know what he's trying to say, honestly... he seems to be determined to be one of those "weird" players he advocated not lynching. Mac, what do you mean by:
"In fact, I was looking for people who sneakily furthered the senseless discussion without giving their own opinion on it (to maintain a helpful image)."? It sounds like you're trying to back out of something, actually -you're going to have to clarify this.
Nerwen - Where oh where can she be?
Meneltarmacil - I don't find him suspicious... I find him confused (it wasn't Nogrod he was agreeing with, but Greenie, I think) - he seems uncautious and innocentish.
Shasta - Somewhere out there, beneath the pale moonlight... (sunlight?)

Well, conclusions: I'm uneasy about Agan, Greenie, and McCaber at the moment and would like some clarification from Macalaure, while Menel and Nogrod look relatively innocentish.

EDIT: X'd with Greenie's ... um... well. As far as I know, only wolves are interested in promoting baseless suspicions - if you didn't want to direct suspicion toward Sally, you certainly didn't indicate this. I suppose you can say it was an attempt at getting a wolf to follow, but then again, that's easy to say.
As for most suspicious - I think people have already discussed their definitions of that at enough length and there's no further point in it unless it is connected to someone's actual suspicions.

[Gwathagor]

I'm sorry I haven't been involved in the discussion yet; I'm still getting a feel for the game at this point. However, I have been reading through the thread and taking notes, and I'll try to make some educated suggestions after dinner. I'm bringing my Colt Python .357 magnum...loaded with silver bullets. Let's kill us a werewolf!

[A Little Green]

Just briefly:

Originally Posted by Rikae

Where oh where is dear little Lommy?

Lommy is having a party-party time..

Originally Posted by Rikae

A Little Green - As I said before, her failure (deliberate?) to see that Sally was joking is worrisome.

Of course she was joking. But there can be evil intentions behind a joke... Okay, let's be frank: I didn't read it as carefully as I could have. The first (but not last, mind you) impression I got from the post was that she was airing a slight, half(or should we say quarter)-serious suspicion in-character. Now that I read it again, I see it as a joke.

Bah. I'd better get some sleep, I fear I'm being both confused and confusing.

x-ed with Gwath(y)

[Macalaure]

And there's was me, thinking that my discussion hook went unnoticed.


Aganzir's backing off from me just after I backed off from her was unexpected. I'll have to make up my mind about her thoroughly tomorrow.

Menel is innocent.

A Little Green is extremely confusing in her response to Rikae. Surely you know there's a difference between a suspicion based on very little and a suspicion based on nothing - and Sally's joke was nothing. I first thought your suspicion was in fun as well, but now I'm wondering about you.
(I wrote this before I read Lily's last post. I'm not sure what to think of this now)

Originally Posted by Rikae

Mac, what do you mean by:
"In fact, I was looking for people who sneakily furthered the senseless discussion without giving their own opinion on it (to maintain a helpful image)."? It sounds like you're trying to back out of something, actually -you're going to have to clarify this.

My lorebooks tell me that early-Day-One-senseless-discussion is usually a good start of a game and the way people argue is often a good indicator of guilt. In this village there was nothing of the kind, so I felt like initiating it. Wolves obviously like senseless discussion, so they like to encourage it. On the other hand, they dislike being caught in it themselves - it makes them look unhelpful. That was the stereotype I was looking for.

Originally Posted by Rikae

he seems to be determined to be one of those "weird" players he advocated not lynching.

That, too.

I'm tending towards innocence with Rikae.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Aganzir's backing off from me just after I backed off from her was unexpected. I'll have to make up my mind about her thoroughly tomorrow.

What? Were you backing off? Where? Had you even been really suspecting me?
I don't think I was backing off either (and backing off what? Throwing suspicions around at the beginning of day 1 seldom means that I am all for lynching that person) - I just have the habit to speak what occurs to me, and if your post looked more innocentish than your earlier posts I do tend to mention it. Unexpected, yeah. I have a feeling werewolf is nowadays played with some certain formula and everything that doesn't happen as it's supposed is weird.

Rikae looks rather innocent, but then again that's what I always think.

Originally Posted by Rikae

McCaber - Five wolves, eh? I guess we're all set, then, and then some... hmm. I'm not sure going after Menel right now is really justified - these accusations seem almost deliberately weak.

I agree with you about him, but on the other hand, it's easy to find Menel suspicious, especially if one hasn't played with him that much. I would rather have liked to hear what he thought was wrong with Mac's posts (and it doesn't matter if someone has already said it- better to repeat than say nothing at all).

Greenie looks innocentish also, though I am aware of her ability to fool me.

Of the others I don't know yet.

Anyway, I shall go and have some sleep now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta, having freed himself from the prison of bedclothes, blinked at Aganzir. "Let us hope you enjoy being wet," he promised, a glint of righteous retribution in his eye, before stalking off.

"Such a mean woman, where I'm concerned," he muttered to himself. "Always doing things to me, threatening me... Remember, the last time she threatened me, she'd been infected by that horrible Lycanthropy... I wonder if the same thing has happened here?"

Tripping over one of the wolf heads laying about the floor, Shasta glared at McCaber. "My good huntsman, these are clearly the heads of Lowland Timberwolves. Any huntsman with a grain of sense would know that this particular type of wolf has its habitat nowhere near our location.... which begs the question, how did you manage to find five where none should be? It makes me think that you're sending off a bit of a Hunter's Hint... but given that poor Farael gave no indication to the presence of a Hunter..."

Shasta trailed off, a wary look on his face.

[Nogrod]

I have promised not to flood-post and o'boy this is hard...

But then again I can make a few longer ones then... So here are some thoughts before I go to bed.

Even though I think the most Mac says is reasonable I find this one quite eyebrow-raising:

Originally Posted by Mac

I'm tending towards innocence with Rikae.

Not because I'd suspect Rikae any more than I do others but because this followed Rikae's post where she made a few questions about Mac's standing and it was left alone as the ending comment on it's own.

What bothers me is the question: why say it after defending oneself from the points Rikae had made? Mac is skilfull enough to post as a believable sense-making ordo if a wolf so at this point his sensibility can't be taken as a proof of his innocence but this kind of "being extra-careful" not to make enemies or to appease others when there is no need for it kind of stand out.

Mac is a questionmark to me right now.

I'm also a bit puzzled of all this discussion on LG's suspicion of Sally. If I just read what she said early toDay I see no problem there: saying that jumping on / chorusing an early suspicion looks wolvish indeed is just plain making sense. Let's go back to it for a moment:

Originally Posted by LG

"Sally... I don't like your easy joining to the suspicion of Nogrod. Also, throwing pillows is a very bad thing to do. Apologise to Nogrod! In addition to this, you are very evil to think Agan's little trick on Shasta a good joke. She did a very naughty thing, and it's nothing to laugh at. You look like an evil child to me. I'll be having a tight eye on you." With that, she gave Sally a taste of her "tight eye".

Rikae's reaction to this was (the very next post in the thread):

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now, one thing I would like to ask about - Greenie, do you actually see Sally's "suspicion" of Nogrod as serious? I'm quite sure it isn't, and the fact that you use it as a basis to suspect Sally doesn't look good.

Re-reading Greenie's points about Sally above kind of make this comment of Rikae to appear in a new light. Now who was jumping on jokes and taking them seriously?

But there's worse to come. Mac followed Rikae's course this way:

Surely you know there's a difference between a suspicion based on very little and a suspicion based on nothing - and Sally's joke was nothing. I first thought your suspicion was in fun as well, but now I'm wondering about you.

Still carrying this initial - and wrong - suspicion that Greenie had kind of seriously accused Sally of werewolvery which she hadn't as you all can see from above quotation.

So why were Rikae and later Mac so ready to go after Greenie who had just posted sense and a few jokes?

But then again - and this is even more disturbing - why did Greenie back off from what she had said after being pressured by Rikae and Mac?

She says:

Originally Posted by LG

Of course she was joking. But there can be evil intentions behind a joke... Okay, let's be frank: I didn't read it as carefully as I could have. The first (but not last, mind you) impression I got from the post was that she was airing a slight, half(or should we say quarter)-serious suspicion in-character. Now that I read it again, I see it as a joke.

This I find the most wolvish this far toDay (it's not much but something). She first made sense - like any decent wolf would - but after questioned she was a bit too happy to change position to talk herself out from suspicion and thence her preliminary sense get's viewed from a different angle... an ordo - if she had spoken honestly in the first post - would have defended her sensible position but a wolf needs to talk herself out from situations she feels are dangerous and can contradict her own earlier positions "admitting" things she has not said.

*Gah, I hope at least someone was able to follow that reasoning...*

Third thing. It's interesting how some people seem to speak against the better knowledge about things toDay.

Shasta said I had left my towel in the bathroom (a bathroom in the Barrow Downs?) after I had myself written that I had it with me. Now why on earth? It's mostly jokes and banter that early in the game but still that kind of made me wonder as he had to have read the few posts there were at that moment to be able to refer to it in the first place. So why on earth? I'm looking forwards to an explanation Shasta.

I was a bit worried about Menel after he said that:

Originally Posted by Menel

I believe that lynching Nogrod is a very bad idea. True, he can make a dangerous wolf, but if he's innocent we'd be losing one of our best. And thus far, what he's said has made a lot of sense, unlike some around here.

It felt just like feel-good -factor stuff. Yes it's nice to hear things like that but just because that it raises eyebrows... But the problem I have with Menel is his next one:

Originally Posted by Menel

True, I agreed with Nogrod that Rikae was talking nonsense

, which I did never say. I did answer Rikae's banter with banter but there was not a single line there suggesting that I was saying Rikae was someone specially talking nonsense...

So I'm quite worried with Menel as well. But with him I'm somewhat hesitating knowing the history of his family. He just ends up being suspected everytime and with my latest experiences (lynched on Day1 three times in a row) I can relate to that.

EDIT: X'd with Shasta...

[Gwathagor]

When do we have to decide who to lynch?

I feel as though Aganzir and A Little Green are quite eager to NOT be associated with one another, while, at the same time, each one protests the other's innocence. Examples: (from Aganzir) "Greenie looks innocentish to me." and (from A Little Green) "I don't think you are dangerous, though, only another ill-bred child."

Their plan would seem to be to defend each other without appearing co-conspirators; the worst thing that could happen to a band of werewolves would be for them to be clearly in cahoots with each other. Am I right?

A case of "the lady doth protest too much, methinks"? I'm sure that line is never quoted in here...

I also think Nogrod and Macalaure have been talking a lot of good sense.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Shasta said I had left my towel in the bathroom (a bathroom in the Barrow Downs?) after I had myself written that I had it with me. Now why on earth? It's mostly jokes and banter that early in the game but still that kind of made me wonder as he had to have read the few posts there were at that moment to be able to refer to it in the first place. So why on earth? I'm looking forwards to an explanation Shasta.

Shasta laughed. "Simple, my dear Nogrod!" he chuckled. "There were two towels!"

[Meneltarmacil]

Shasta, I'm kind of worried about you here. As far as I can tell, all your posts lately have been in-character banter, with little, if any, substance.

[Thinlómien]

A broadly smiling young Dúnadan lady entered the scene. "Water buffalos? Smelly? My apologies, Stepmother, I guess you just have to stay away from me." Her grin was even broader when she finished her sentence and sat next to Aganzir. "I'm not yours, though", she added in a self-important tone.

She cast another look at the dwarf-like being next to herself. "You are... odd. You are suspicious. I have a vaguely bad feeling about you." She stood up and wiped dust off her skirts. "I don't think I'd like to sit by you... wolf." Then she laughed. "Though I always think you're innocent, and you're always a wolf. So now that you seem suspicious, should I consider you innocentish?" She produced a flask from her pocket and took a long sip of blackcurrant juice. "Yes, you're a wolf and your fellows are Legate and Shasta. I've seen it in a dream."

Then the Dúnadan's expression grew a bit more serious. "I don't trust this Macalaure guy. While I agree that he talks, in a way, sense here

Originally Posted by Mac

Shall we lynch a weird-looking member of our group, or a conventional-looking? I say we go for the latter. My lorebook tells me that in dire situations like ours, the strange have been lynched early on more often than they deserve, and with very poor results usually. Let us go for one who flies under the radar, one who doesn't say anything controversial, one who seems eager to not rub people the wrong way. Sure, those people are difficult to catch since it requires a sharp eye to discern them from someone who says nothing because s/he just has nothing to say. But come on! Let us give effort and lynch one who is most eager not to be pinned down!

I still don't like it. Why? Something in the way that this comes so suddenly yet carefully formed just doesn't sit right with me. Besides, it urges people to act oddly and cause confusion. And most importantly, like Rikae here said, he takes care of acting somewhat weirdly himself - a great way of avoiding getting lynched, isn't it?"

She looked at the two she had just talked about. "Mac and Rikae... I'm afraid I don't like the way you court and trial each other. Careful agreements, defenses and accusations to balance it out. It looks quite fishy. But I think the most probable scenario is that one of you is a wolf and he or she is trying to get the another one to his or her side or win his or her trust. I don't like it..."

"Stepmother Green then... She doesn't alarm me in general, but her post #85 was just horrible.

Originally Posted by Greenie

I didn't answer Rikae's question straightly, though... Was that answer enough, or do you want me to explain some more?

That kind of friendliness (note the smiley) just seems all too wrong to me, it actually reminds me of my wolf attitude - I've made a post just like that as a wolf. There's something quite feigned in the tone and that "did I explain understandably?"+smilie combination."

Thinlómien sat down on the floor and after a little while, settled down to lay on the ground. She looked at the roof above and smiled. "I'd love to see the sky..." she mumbled, "But anyway, what did I want to say? Oh, probably that this Day has been weird - but I like it - and Gwathagor and Nogrod seem innocentish for now and I just really never can understand Menel."

edit: xed with Menel

[Nerwen]

Nerwen yawned and stretched herself. "Dear me, I have slept in!" She stood up and knocked her head on the ceiling. "Was this barrow designed for short people or something?"

Rubbing her head, she continued, "Now, it seems to me that whilst I slumbered I was dimly aware of a lot of arguing going on... some of which confused me.

Macalaure, you early on said:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Let us go for one who flies under the radar, one who doesn't say anything controversial, one who seems eager to not rub people the wrong way.

But now it seems you didn't mean any of your earlier statements– in fact, you were just trying to see if any of the wolves took the bait:

Originally Posted by Macalaure

My lorebooks tell me that early-Day-One-senseless-discussion is usually a good start of a game and the way people argue is often a good indicator of guilt. In this village there was nothing of the kind, so I felt like initiating it. Wolves obviously like senseless discussion, so they like to encourage it. On the other hand, they dislike being caught in it themselves - it makes them look unhelpful. That was the stereotype I was looking for..

Okay, that's not a bad plan for getting the wolves to reveal themselves... but what I'm curious about is what you would have done had it worked?

Edit: X'd with Menel and Lommy.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

I've seen it in a dream."

Do you dream frequently?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Shasta, I'm kind of worried about you here. As far as I can tell, all your posts lately have been in-character banter, with little, if any, substance.

I rarely like to read too much into Day 1, as there isn't much concrete evidence to go on, and there's a far more likely chance to be wrong than there is to be right.

[Meneltarmacil]

And, if I may ask, Lommy, since I was apparently there, what was my role in this dream of yours?

Oh, and so as to not wander too far from today's business, if Mac was trying to catch a wolf in his net, Rikae appears to have taken the bait.

*sigh* I really don't want to be in the position of concentrating on a single suspect all Day. My ancestors have made that mistake before, and when their suspect died, their elaborate thory collapsed and they were left with nothing.

Shasta is still a bit of a concern, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier, plus his suspicions of people because of their in-character actions don't strike me well either.

And yes, Rikae, that was Greenie's post I was agreeing with and not Nogrod's. Sometimes I need to pay more attention.

EDIT: Cross-posted with Shasta.

[Nerwen]

Nerwen lounged against the icy stone wall of the barrow. "Well, now the conversation's getting a bit more interesting. But why is everyone so nervous?" She glanced around the dank, dripping chamber, with its ancient treasures gleaming eerily in the chill green light. "Sorry. Dumb question."

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I feel as though Aganzir and A Little Green are quite eager to NOT be associated with one another, while, at the same time, each one protests the other's innocence. Examples: (from Aganzir) "Greenie looks innocentish to me." and (from A Little Green) "I don't think you are dangerous, though, only another ill-bred child."

Their plan would seem to be to defend each other without appearing co-conspirators; the worst thing that could happen to a band of werewolves would be for them to be clearly in cahoots with each other. Am I right?

Yes... but actually, even casually stating your belief in a fellow-wolf's innocence can be rather risky. Once you're lynched and proven a wolf, anyone you said nice things about gets looked at very carefully.

On the other, A Little Green's last post does come across a bit... sugary. Hmmn.

Tip: you also want to watch out for people whose interactions seem "staged", if you know what I mean. Wolves quite often claim to suspect one another.

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Oh, and so as to not wander too far from today's business, if Mac was trying to catch a wolf in his net, Rikae appears to have taken the bait.

I don't have time now to re-read the early posts, but I thought Rikae was already lauding the virtues of gut-feelings before Mac started on his "let's suspect anyone who sounds sensible" thing.

I'm still not sure what to make of Mac. Was he trying to set a wolf-trap, as he claims? Or is he furry himself, and backed away from his scheme when he saw ii wasn't working? Either way, it was a rather dangerous ploy. If he's a wolf, he risked drawing suspicion on himself– if not, he risked giving the wolves the go-ahead to lynch helpful innocents.

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Shasta is still a bit of a concern, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier, plus his suspicions of people because of their in-character actions don't strike me well either.

I'd put a question mark over him– but he might have simply been carrying on the role-play a bit longer than everyone else. His "suspicions" sounded pretty jokey to me.

Well, now I'm going to take a walk in the fog. Perhaps it will clear my head.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes... but actually, even casually stating your belief in a fellow-wolf's innocence can be rather risky. Once you're lynched and proven a wolf, anyone you said nice things about gets looked at very carefully.

On the other, A Little Green's last post does come across a bit... sugary. Hmmn.

Tip: you also want to watch out for people whose interactions seem "staged", if you know what I mean. Wolves quite often claim to suspect one another.

I agree whole-heartedly with you here.

EDIT: How many werewolves are there?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Meneltarmacil

Shasta is still a bit of a concern, due to the reasons I mentioned earlier, plus his suspicions of people because of their in-character actions don't strike me well either.

Pfft. This is how I start off every game. You may not have noticed, since I die at the beginning every game.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally stumbled into the room with a look of utter exhaustion on her face. "How much I have done today, and yet nothing accomplished, especially in the way of finding werewolves! For this I do apologize, but my logic is not up to its usual standard Perhaps if you gave me a minute I could....What was I talking about again?"
She stood in the middle of the group, raking through her hair with her fingers and staring at her fellow players' faces, then to the surprise of everyone slumped down on the floor and fell unconcious.
The others, though concerned, had bigger fish to fry and continued their discussions, frivolous though they may prove to be, and set Sally carefully aside so that she could rest for a while. Once, she sat up suddenly and shouted "KEEL! Keel won vif neem oof soooodaaaa...." then flopped back down again.
"What was that she said?" asked Nerwen.
"Haven't the slightest," admitted Shasta. "Something about a keel and a soda....maybe she went out for a boat ride and had something bad to drink?"
"Hush, you two," remarked Greenie the Stepmother. "We must get back to business. We have a wolf to catch yet before the sunset. Concentrate, you slackers, and leave that silly one to her sleep, or I'll-"
Her scolding was interrupted when Sally leaped up from her resting place, eyes wild and clearly not awake, and screamed....

++Shasta

....then ran toward the object of her rant and looked him square in the eye, opened her mouth to speak to him privately, and....passed out, not to be awakened again until the dawn of the next day.


Note: Hopefully I won't start a bandwagon on this poor guy but I feel useless if I don't vote and I've been completely out of whack the last couple days so I haven't been able to sort out a lot of today's posts. Besides, I know that if I don't vote before I go to bed (for I really am sick and therefore need to get some sleep) I won't vote at all because I won't want to get up in the morning. Here's hoping that the rest of you all enjoy the rest of your Day though, Shasta included (and for the record, I felt the urge to random since I couldn't come up with anything at the moment, so I figured I may as well give someone a good giggle with the pop/soda joke. I promise a substantial vote the next Day.)

EDIT: Oh, by the way, I don't know if it was mentioned, but are there retractable votes? Just for future reference

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Shasta laughed. "Oh dear, it seems to be happening yet again... Something tells me maybe I shouldn't have caved in and joined this ragtag band."

He stood up on a rock and surveyed everyone.

"Given what I've heard from everyone today, and that I seem to be catching a bit of a cold, and that it's gone two in the morning, I'm going to have to vote now. The lucky recipient of my vote is -

++Menel

simply because I think he should know by now, given the number of games we've both participated in, that this is how I begin every game, and his reason for suspecting me has been echoed by at least one person Day 1 in every other game."

Shasta then jumped down off the rock and headed for his bed.

[Macalaure]

I read over Aganzir's posts again and decided that whatever I saw yesterday isn't there anymore.

Of McCaber I'm really not sure.

Shasta is a question mark, but he deserves to be left alive for a second Day once in a while.

Menel, Rikae, and Sally are innocent. Reason: feeling.

Gwatha hasn't said much and what he said wouldn't be overly alarming if only he hadn't played the "I'm confused about the rules"-card a little too often.

I just tried to paraphrase Nogrod's position on Lily, but it was not as easy as I thought it would be, so I'll just say I agree with him. Nogrod is making a lot of sense (although I disagree with many of his conclusions). Being "concise" suits him.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Something in the way that this comes so suddenly yet carefully formed just doesn't sit right with me. Besides, it urges people to act oddly and cause confusion. And most importantly, like Rikae here said, he takes care of acting somewhat weirdly himself - a great way of avoiding getting lynched, isn't it?"

Eh? What do you mean by "suddenly yet carefully formed"? And "Making people act oddly" is exactly what I had in mind. I never claimed it was otherwise.
Anyway, what's more suspicious is that this was preceded by

Originally Posted by Lommy

While I agree that he talks, in a way, sense

, which is a relativization of the suspicion that followed. Relativated suspicion manages to make me feel quite uneasy about people.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I'm still not sure what to make of Mac. Was he trying to set a wolf-trap, as he claims? Or is he furry himself, and backed away from his scheme when he saw ii wasn't working? Either way, it was a rather dangerous ploy. If he's a wolf, he risked drawing suspicion on himself– if not, he risked giving the wolves the go-ahead to lynch helpful innocents.

Of course, this is exactly what I did not have in mind. I was looking for those who were most eager to keep themselves out of trouble while adding tinder to the flames. For example, persons who ask questions without giving their own opinion hoping that other make up their minds to answer them in order to lynch an innocent without making ones hands bloody. Wait....

Originally Posted by Nerwen

what I'm curious about is what you would have done had it worked?

ummm, lynched the wolf?
...and what do you mean, had it worked.


Right now, I'm suspicious of A Wolfy Green, Thinwólfien, and Nerwolf, in a slight Day-One-ish way. In the same manner, I think Rikae, Nogrod, Menel, and Sally are innocent. Of the rest I'm unsure.

[Nerwen]

Like Sally before her, Nerwen staggered into the chamber, bruised and bleeding. "Curse this mist!" she muttered. "I must have walked into dozens of standing stones, not to mention rolling down a hill at one point.

But I thought I heard a voice– or voices– asking about the rules?

Delving in the depths of my Elvish memory, I seem to recall that there are three werewolves, no retractable votes (or if there are, the mods forgot to tell us), and that if there's a tie, the result will be decided by coin-toss. Everyone happy now?"

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Note: Hopefully I won't start a bandwagon on this poor guy but I feel useless if I don't vote and I've been completely out of whack the last couple days so I haven't been able to sort out a lot of today's posts. Besides, I know that if I don't vote before I go to bed (for I really am sick and therefore need to get some sleep) I won't vote at all because I won't want to get up in the morning. Here's hoping that the rest of you all enjoy the rest of your Day though, Shasta included (and for the record, I felt the urge to random since I couldn't come up with anything at the moment, so I figured I may as well give someone a good giggle with the pop/soda joke. I promise a substantial vote the next Day.)

Anyone else not like that last post of Sally's? She seems very eager to cover herself, doesn't she? (On the other hand, if she's indeed sick she may not be thinking clearly.)

Edit: X'd with Macalaure.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A group of people was walking down a half-empty street in the low light.
"It was a good game," one of them said.
"Anyway, the Elves part was the best," said the once-again DM, "or at least I liked it the most."
"Yea, definitely. Well, I was almost dead all the time."
"How comes you picked the worst spots in the battle?"
"No idea. We crossed the river and I run just into the swordsman who hit me for 30 damage in one round. Then I chose to search just under the tree on which that sniper was sitting. Then..."
"Hey, it's my bus. All right, see you later."
The party disbanded. Everyone went to their homes, by bus, by tram, by walk... only the DM did not do so. He knew, when this was over, that he has to go back.
He turned his back on the city and walked away, and soon, the chill and the fog appeared and the DM was no more.
***
"They are waiting for you, Grimburgoth," the voice from above spoke. The Chieftain of the Dark Rangers nodded, took on his black hood and using a 5th level spell he should not have in his list, he transported into the enclosed barrow.


All right, friends. I just read what happened around here, and I am not going to be around for long, as I am here just to come and go. But as it has been said elsewhere, that's only today. I haven't read all as deeply as I would like, but I hope to be able now to voice the things that made impact on me when reading now in a short (edit: *ahem* looks at the post below: well...) and comprehensible way.

I am a little concerned by the way the things went toDay this far. I mean, from what I read, I got the impression that lot of the talk on the first page went only around half-joking suspicions, which in some mysterious way turned into serious ones. Or maybe not, that's the worst thing about it, I can't tell: maybe they were supposed to be (or to look) serious from the start, which would be indeed critical. It started with Nogrod having something red in his towel, to which - a normal in-character thing - a load of responses mainly from sally, a little also Shasta and consequently more from LG followed. Let me see - there are two options. A) Either they are jokes, then I say there is too many of them and no real substance in almost all posts of the named people. Not necessary to say that such a way of playing is absolutely unproductive. One or two joking or in-character things are no problem, but when there is a fifty-post dialogue made from them, you know. B) They are serious, then obviously it's silly as well - basing suspicions on Nogrod on the fact that he carried a red towel doesn't need any comment, I believe.

Otherwise, there was this thing about Mac saying we lynch a conventional type person. I believe Aganzir responded to it quite right and I can't see how it could have been misinterpretated: focusing on certain "ideology" is not a way to really look for wolves. It is an individual focus on each person, and everyone choosing to lynch the one who, to him, seems suspicious. That does not mean "odd-behaving", that means, well, suspicious. Even behaving "conventionally" may be considered suspicious, sometimes, and sometimes "odd-behaving" beople are suspicious.

Concerning people, just what I got from what I read: I mentioned already above the strange joke-or-not-joke talkers, i.e. Sally, LG and to lesser extent, Shasta. About Mac I don't know. Rikae's posts look more like in her normal unpleasant style, so nothing particularly suspicious on her this far. Likewise, Aganzir this far looks quite fine, and I daresay not in her typical innocent-looking way, but she's kinda bit, how to say it, aggressive, so I would like to hope at last once I could think her innocent and be right about it. Lommy posted just once, but her one post looks also quite like a normal innocent Lommy. I must say also that this far, Gwathagor makes the impression of an innocent newbie rather than a wolf-newbie, although of course not knowing him, I am not setting it as standard. About Menel, McCaber and Nerwen I can't say anything, and strangely, also about Nogrod who made a lot less input that I would expect from him. What's going on, Noggins? (Not that I don't like having less and shorter things to read, but... Or is there anything more sinister in the background, Nog?)

One more serious matter to solve. Although I'd like to hear about all of this, I am most worried about Sally, because of what I said above and because of the last post:

Originally Posted by sally

Hopefully I won't start a bandwagon on this poor guy

Originally Posted by sally

Here's hoping that the rest of you all enjoy the rest of your Day though, Shasta included (and for the record, I felt the urge to random since I couldn't come up with anything at the moment, so I figured I may as well give someone a good giggle with the pop/soda joke. I promise a substantial vote the next Day.)

So, wait- do I understand correctly, you say that your vote is merely a random one? I can understand that you have to vote now, for I have as well, as I won't be around till DL, but surely there can be something more than just voting randomly? I don't like also the "hopefully I won't start a bandwagon" thing. A person who wants to get someone lynched in fact wants to start a bandwagon - well, not a bandwagon, but in the meaning that she wants to find support if she thinks she has found a wolf. And of course, mainly, for a wolf it's an alibism: the more if you say you vote randomly! Therefore, my vote today is

++Sally

Anyway, I will be leaving now, so that's about it. As I said, nothing much from me toDay, but I hope it will be better in the future and hope to see you toMorrow. I will have a lot more time to participate and with more time to make my mind on things. Good luck.

EDIT: x-ed since shasta

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

ummm, lynched the wolf?
...and what do you mean, had it worked.

I mean, if your idea was to encourage the wolves to act silly, and to go after anyone who was being helpful (thus revealing themselves), how did you plan to accuse them– when you'd previously said what they were doing was the hallmark of innocence?

Edit: X'd with Legate.

[Aganzir]

Of those who have spoken this far, Mac looks the most suspicious. The way he seems to have decided to play is beyond my comprehension, and, well, he seems to be giving an over-honest impression. I said that his response (#81) to me was the most innocentish thing he had said during this day, but it really isn't, at least it's not somehow more innocent than his other posts. It's... when a wolf is trying people, it's more important than it is for an innocent to let everybody know that he wasn't being serious. I think Mac's eagerness to explain what he was doing looks like that.
He is saying things like "a wolf would have a reason to do what I did". When he's saying that while doing those things, it's easy to get the first impression that he can't be a wolf because if he was he wouldn't have said that. And that's the thing that worries me most about him.

On the other hand, I'm afraid that if Mac isn't a wolf he would be an easy day 1 lynch for the wolves.

Originally Posted by Gwathy

When do we have to decide who to lynch?

All votes should be cast before the deadline (which is 3 pm gmt / 9 am ct).

Originally Posted by Lommy

"Though I always think you're innocent, and you're always a wolf. So now that you seem suspicious, should I consider you innocentish?"

Quite right. I am deeply amused if you've got so used to my playing as a wolf that the first time I'm innocent since Rikae's game I look suspicious.

I don't know about Lommy... She looks mostly innocent but on the other hand she doesn't.

Originally Posted by Gwathy

Do you dream frequently?

Tsk tsk, that's something you should never ask a lady.

I don't like Shasta posting just in character, but that's not a reason to suspect him. At least he's posted more than usually on day 1s.

Sally is being quite much her normal self, which doesn't mean anything.

Originally Posted by Gwathy

EDIT: How many werewolves are there?

With how many persons were you plotting last night?
There are three. It's stated in the post that started night 1. Asking that isn't going to make me think you must be innocent because you don't know that.

I have to vote, well, soon, and at the moment my vote is likely to go to Mac.

edit: xed since Mac

[Aganzir]

++ Macalaure

Have to go now.

[Thinlómien]

Thinlómien's player yawned and then she tried to cast a critical look at herself. "When I went to sleep and set the alarm clock, I did not of course realise that the deadline is so early that I have to play werewolf and vote before I leave to my little art thing..." she mumbled, looking at the computer screen. "Let's go then, and no novels this time."

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Yes... but actually, even casually stating your belief in a fellow-wolf's innocence can be rather risky. Once you're lynched and proven a wolf, anyone you said nice things about gets looked at very carefully.

Yes, but often they're just disregarded as possible double bluff.

Originally Posted by Mac

Eh? What do you mean by "suddenly yet carefully formed"?

I really can't explain it better than that.

Originally Posted by Mac

And "Making people act oddly" is exactly what I had in mind. I never claimed it was otherwise.

Does the fact that you admit you try to put this village into a state of confusion make the act less suspicious? I don't think so.

Originally Posted by Mac

which is a relativization of the suspicion that followed. Relativated suspicion manages to make me feel quite uneasy about people.

That is jolly true, but you ought to know by now that I do it always.

I still think there's a wolf hiding among Mac and Rikae and therefore I'm going to vote

++Macalaure

because he seems more suspicious of the two.

And don't worry, if I'm still alive, I will be able to contribute more on the Days to come.

EDIT: xed with Agan x2

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I mean, if your idea was to encourage the wolves to act silly, and to go after anyone who was being helpful (thus revealing themselves), how did you plan to accuse them– when you'd previously said what they were doing was the hallmark of innocence?

You misunderstood me. The weird/conventional-thing was indeed only a bait. Once more, I was looking for people trying to encourage others to discuss that thing without getting involved and giving an opinion themselves. I was not looking for the helpful ones, I was looking for the uncontroversial (just to put a label on it) ones. I planned to accuse them exactly because of their behavior, and I don't think this would have been contradicting at all.
Legate is right: This stereotype isn't failsafe - of course not - but it's good enough until something really suspicious comes up from somebody.

Of those who have spoken this far, Mac looks the most suspicious. The way he seems to have decided to play is beyond my comprehension, and, well, he seems to be giving an over-honest impression. I said that his response (#81) to me was the most innocentish thing he had said during this day, but it really isn't, at least it's not somehow more innocent than his other posts. It's... when a wolf is trying people, it's more important than it is for an innocent to let everybody know that he wasn't being serious. I think Mac's eagerness to explain what he was doing looks like that.
He is saying things like "a wolf would have a reason to do what I did". When he's saying that while doing those things, it's easy to get the first impression that he can't be a wolf because if he was he wouldn't have said that. And that's the thing that worries me most about him.

Aganzir, I don't understand what you're trying to say. I never said anything like "a wolf would have a reason to do what I did". That's how some have interpreted me, and I jokingly agreed to it once. I'm eager to explain myself? Well, people have been eager to ask me to. And why do you say I was not serious just because I admitted I was laying out a bait for the wolves on a slow-going Day One? That doesn't make sense.

I re-revise my opinion of Aganzir: Possible wolf.

I also revise my opinion of Lommy: Misled innocent.

[Macalaure]

A minor, but interesting thing:

I said before I've been wondering about the rules-questions of Gwathagor. I think Gwath's questions (deadline, number of wolves) are strange because the answers can easily be taken from Farael's rules-post just before the game starts. If he listened to what has been spoken so far as attentively as he claims, how could he have overlooked it?

I think it's interesting to see that the only ones answering him are Nerwen and Aganzir (cross-posting their replies!), who happen to be my top suspects. Oh surprise.

It's probably pre-mature to construct such a thing, but I think it's possible that Nerwen and Aganzir told Gwath to act newbie-ish and ask questions. But when they realized that nobody is answering him, they took the duty onto themselves. Of course, it would have been silly for both of them to do it: that's where the cross-post comes into play. Evil minds think alike.

[Nogrod]

This is a weird Day indeed. Or then I just manage to read things in totally different way...

Firstly all those counterfactual oddities in which I see no sense for either an ordo or a wolf to say (Shasta and the towel, Menel referring to me saying Rikae talks nonsense, Gwatha not "knowing" how many wolves there are, what is the deadline...).

Secondly people backtracking or reinterpreting themselves in a hurry, like Greenie and Mac. Now what do I mean by that? I'll try to say it short and clear if I can.

Greenie made jokes to Sally and promised to "give a tight eye to her" but after being suspected on making serious suspicions on weak grounds she goes on to "admit" she had made them because she had read Sally carelessly. So why didn't she just say it was a joke as it clearly was one?

Mac's suggestion that we should look at those who try to avoid "rubbing people the wrong way" or those trying to be uncontroversial is all fine and dandy. It is a most reasonable stance indeed. But then suddenly everyone is talking about schemes to try and lure the wolves into being controversial and Mac behaving oddly - even Mac himself does it. Now am I the only only one who thinks this is fishy indeed? Why did Mac back away from a most reasonable position into this scheming-thingy after being suspected?

Maybe I'm just reading things in some warped way...

There are many whom I should take a closer look as they clearly have flown under my radar but I need to go shopping. I wil be back before deadline though.

And just to add... taking the feelings / intuition stuff in as well I do share Mac's bad feeling about Aganzir. I hope I can elaborate that when I come back.

EDIT: x'd with Mac

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

It's probably pre-mature to construct such a thing, but I think it's possible that Nerwen and Aganzir told Gwath to act newbie-ish and ask questions. But when they realized that nobody is answering him, they took the duty onto themselves. Of course, it would have been silly for both of them to do it: that's where the cross-post comes into play. Evil minds think alike.

Well, you ought to know. But why– in your scenario– would we need to answer him?

This does strike me as a little odd, though:

Originally Posted by Aganzir (replaying to Gwathagor)

With how many persons were you plotting last night?
There are three. It's stated in the post that started night 1. Asking that isn't going to make me think you must be innocent because you don't know that.

Could that be a wolf trying to cast suspicion an an ordo? Or a wolf warning her fellow that he's over-doing it? What do other people think?

Mac will probably jump on me now, and announce that I'm obviously trying to distance myself from my wolf-colleagues.

Edit: X'd with Nogrod.

[Rikae]

I had to get up early on a weekend... *grumbles*

I'm not sure why Legate finds me so unpleasant, but I'm getting a little tired of comments of this sort in every game, I must say. Oh well...

It seems to me that people are misinterpreting Macalaure's behavior - if I understand it correctly (as I think I now do), he was basically trying to stir the proverbial pot. Am I correct in thinking, Mac, that you didn't intend the content of your conversation-starter to be misleading, but rather were looking for wolvish behavior of hovering around the edges of a debate?
That's a noble endeavor, and one that does run the risk of attracting dangerous attention to oneself - my opinion at this point is that Macalaure is innocent as a little lamb.
As I'm confident in my assessment of Macalaure, the misrepresentation of his stance I see from Nerwen is alarming. For example:

Originally Posted by Nerwen

his "let's suspect anyone who sounds sensible" thing.

and

if your idea was to encourage the wolves to act silly, and to go after anyone who was being helpful (thus revealing themselves),

I also don't feel too comfortable with this:

Mac will probably jump on me now, and announce that I'm obviously trying to distance myself from my wolf-colleagues.

This is just too defensive and self-conscious. I daresay it's not the sort of thing that innocents usually come up with.
Aganzir is troubling as well, as she seems to be putting words in Mac's mouth.

What else? I don't find Menel suspicious, though he certainly makes it difficult with his single-minded and poorly-supported attacks on me. Still, that's like him, which, I fear, is why he tends to be lynched early on so often - giving flimsy reasons for his suspicions. From someone else it would be worrisome, but not from Menel.

Shasta - well, I'm tempted to vote for him simply because "I'm not going to be helpful and you can't make me... lalala" attitude (my interpretation) is downright annoying. No one likes day ones, but making an effort is, to my mind anyway, a responsibility to one's fellow players (even if they call you unpleasant... .) Still, I don't think it's necessarily wolfish behavior (and if he is a wolf, he can hardly use the same excuse toMorrow), and I wouldn't like to waste my vote.

Nogrod, I have to disagree that Greenie's comment about Sally was clearly a joke. The line in which she says it seems perfectly serious - I'm perfectly capable of following a serious suspicion with a joke, so I assumed Greenie was as well. After all, if there was nothing serious in her post, it would be decidedly unhelpful, so I assumed she was using the in-character stuff as a vehicle to voice a few suspicions.

Well, that's all for now, I guess... I'm leaning toward casting my vote for Nerwen at the moment, or possibly Aganzir.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Greenie made jokes to Sally and promised to "give a tight eye to her" but after being suspected on making serious suspicions on weak grounds she goes on to "admit" she had made them because she had read Sally carelessly. So why didn't she just say it was a joke as it clearly was one?

You got me wrong, I'm afraid. I didn't say it was a joke because it wasn't just a joke. Of course I wasn't being entirely serious, and was posting in-character (and having a character which might seem, well, joke-ish). Bah. I might as well explain it thoroughly, since you guys don't seem to understand just how trivial this matter is.

I read Sally's post (not quite as carefully as I maybe should have) and interpreted it as a semi-serious suspicion behind a joke-ish in-character post. I wasn't sure at all, that early in the game, and her "suspicion" of Nogrod seemed fishy to me. Therefore I mentioned it in my post. However, my in-character role and the insignificant details of the post (like the "throwing pillows is evil behaviour" -thing and all that stuff) might have made it look like a joke among jokes. I keep wondering how certain people could interpret it as a serious suspicion on Sally. Though I found her statement about Noggins slightly fishy, it doesn't mean I think she is a wolf, it was just a detail I paid attention to. Then when I was accused of "failing to see that Sally was joking", I re-read her post and concluded that she probably was.

Is that enough?

Also, to Lommy:

Originally Posted by Lommie

That kind of friendliness (note the smiley) just seems all too wrong to me, it actually reminds me of my wolf attitude - I've made a post just like that as a wolf. There's something quite feigned in the tone and that "did I explain understandably?"+smilie combination."

Well. If you want me to explain why I used a smilie, then I can tell you that it was because I thought "Was that answer enough, or do you want me to explain some more?" sounds much more aggressive and annoyed than I felt.

Then to business.

Mac's theory on Nerwen, Agan and Gwath being the wolves was very interesting, but I don't think it is a valid reason to suspect Nerwen or Agan that they answer Gwath's inquiries about game rules. I would have done the same had I been online then. Nevertheless I'll probably be watching the interactions between the three of them more closely after Mac's find.
Even though I don't find Nerwen and Agan's behaviour especially wolvish, I do find Gwathy's questions a little disturbing. Why not read things like that from the rules post? That reminds me of my first game ever as a wolf, when I wanted to underline my newbieness to use it as an explanation for my oddities ("I'm just a silly newbie, I don't know how the game works!"). Otherwise he looks quite genuine except for his slight eagerness to agree with more experienced players.

Agan looks innocentish, which in her case means that she is probably a wolf. She is perhaps a bit less wary or, should we say, neat (if you get what I mean) than she has been in the two other games I've had with her (and she was a wolf in both). Leaning towards innocent, I guess.

Sally's apparently random vote on Shasta was really weird, as was her regretful tone of "I hope there won't be a bandwagon on this poor fellow". It was like "I don't want you lynched but I vote for you all the same". I would definitely like to have an explanation from Sally on Day 2 if she doesn't appear before DL and doesn't get lynched. I don't think a wolf would have acted that way - though I don't understand behaviour like that from an ordo, either. So, I'm very confused about her.

Rikae's overall confidence is slightly alarming, especially in Mac's case.

Originally Posted by Rikae

my opinion at this point is that Macalaure is innocent as a little lamb.

Just a trivial matter, but the "innocent as a little lamb" brings me in mind of some big bad wolf in a fable prowling around little lambs.

Also Legate's post made me uneasy, I can't put my finger on it but there was a sense of falseness in it, be it the over-cheerful "All right, friends!" -attitude or something else.

That's about all I have in mind for now. I'll be back to vote before the deadline, though I don't know who I'm going to vote for yet. The people I'm most uneasy with at the moment are probably Sally, Gwath, Rikae and Legate. I reserve the right to change my opinion on them if they give me reason to change it.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Rikae's overall confidence is slightly alarming, especially in Mac's case. Just a trivial matter, but the "innocent as a little lamb" brings me in mind of some big bad wolf in a fable prowling around little lambs.

I haven't been wrong about Mac in ages. That's why I focus on "testing" him early on - he's the easiest person to read, for me.
As for the little lamb, I was indeed thinking of wolves and lambs, as in "either Mac is an innocent lamb or a wolf in sheep's clothing."
My first phrase was "pure as the driven snow and innocent as a cute little lamb. With a ribbon around its neck. In a field of daises. With a halo." But I thought that might be a tad over-the-top.

[Nogrod]

(OOC: LG and I are sharing the computer so we'll be able to post less than we might otherwise do...)

I quess I'm buying Greenie's explanation for the moment but I'm still a bit worried about Mac - and Rikae's latest confidence in Mac didn't ease my situation a bit as the old idea I thought I could get myself rid of ("when they both are in a game they are either wolves or lovers of which at least the other one is a wolf") started emerging in the back of my head.

Still I do agree with Rikae on Shasta - and about Nerwen, especially on the "too self-conscious" thing.

Also Sally's vote kind of makes me think about suggesting lynching her just out of pure annoyance. When one declares that one's vote is random there is nothing anyone can think or say about that "choice" as it is no choice and thence it leaves no tracks. That is either a cowardly way of playing or a clumsy trick by a wolf.

Also it's interesting that while announcing her vote to be random that random vote was indeed Shasta. Now with no disregard to Shasta I'd say that was the easiest or smoothest choice, something she might have thought wouldn't be jumped on by anyone... or a vote someone she voted for would come back at her. So was it a random-vote at all or just claimed random-vote? I'm thinking it was the latter and if I'm correct that looks very bad indeed.

You others have already pointed out all the backtracking she made alongside her vote (all the sorrys & hopefully I'm not starting a bandwaggon etc...).