Christopher Tolkien to finish lost Middle Earth novel

[davem]

And add in 8 colour plates & 25 b&w illustrations.......that's another 30 odd pages.....

[Maglor]

Originally Posted by the guy who be short

Hmm. I make CT's version 230 pages.

The UT version is 112 pages + 11 pages from the Silm (Between Of Mim and The Return of Turin to Dor-Lomin in UT) plus about 12 pages from the Notes in UT. Which is 135 pages - in paperback.

I don't have HoME and I don't remember how much extra material is in there, but it does look like we'll be getting 100 extra pages from somewhere or other.

My 227 was a rough approximation based on the Table of Contents previously posted (The Tables start on 261 so I took one off from that and subtracted 33, the page on which "The Childhood Of Hurin" begins). But no matter how you slice it, it's 220+ pages worth of the actual narrative, apart from the pages taken for illustrations (which I'd forgotten about--thanks davem).

My version of the Narn has the fluid story as under 100 pages, and about 20 more if you include the notes and appendix. Of course, font makes a difference as well.

In any case, I'm interested to see the stuff that is "new" or expanded, because there has to be some to reach the apparent length we've been given.

[Mithalwen]

"So in conclusion : Many parts of the text are essentially the same as those that appear in other works (and particularly "Unfinished Tales"), other parts will be new except for those readers who have read in detail the History of Middle Earth.
The text as a whole can be said to be "new" as it is a recomposition of published texts and other "pieces" that weren't published previously. A completed puzzle, in a sense."

Maglor:

This is a quote from an interview with Christopher's son Adam linked by Cof7A in post 36 of this thread . So nothing much new to those who have read HoME but newly presented as an entity.. but the article is well worth reading...

[davem]

According to the Tolkien.co.uk website countdown timer http://www.tolkien.co.uk/ the book will be published in (at time of writing) 26 days 1 hour & 15 minutes - ie at 11pm.

Can we expect a Harry Potter like late night opening at the bookstores, with queuing fans dressed up in their M-e costumes?

[Mithalwen]

Proabably best not to go as spellbound Nienor fleeing from the Orc attack ..bit chilly...

[davem]

hmmm...I've noticed that in order to see the timer you need javascript enabled. You can see the timer as a banner on the Tolkien Library website though - always good for updates on Tolkien stuff http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/

[Lalwendë]

The World Wide Launch of the Children of Hurin is being held on 17th April at Waterstone's, Piccadilly, London. 10am - 6pm.

World Wide Launch
The Children of Hurin
WATERSTONE'S PICCADILLY
Tuesday, 17 April 2007, 10:00AM - 6:00PM
The 30-year wait is over for J.R.R. Tolkien's 'The Children of Hurin'. Join us for a day long extravaganza of readings, competitions & activities, including illustrator Alan Lee signing the novel. Please contact the store for further details.

Further details: 02078512400

Ooooooh!

[William Cloud Hicklin]

"to publish the version he probably wishes went in the Silmarillion proper."

No, he doesn't. He has always wished to publish it as a standalone book; but the Sil. proper was always viewed (by JRRT and CT both) as a compendium, a rather compressed history, and this is precisely what JRRT produced when he wrote a deliberately abridged version of the later Narn into the Grey Annals.

[davem]

Well, ok, not quite. But three copies of the Deluxe ed. signed by Christopher Tolkien & Alan Lee:

More here:

http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_...n_Release_Party

& the entry form here

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/form.html
__________________

[davem]

BTW I note from a post by one of the organisers of the contest over on the LotR Fanatics Plaza that the 'code' is 'Hurin' & the 'answer' is 'signed'.

[Hyarion]

Dang, davem beat me to it

Not sure about you but the first link doesn't work for me:
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_C..._Release_Party

[davem]

Originally Posted by Hyarion

Dang, davem beat me to it

Not sure about you but the first link doesn't work for me:
http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/The_C..._Release_Party

No- it doesn't work for me now, either. Thanks for the updated link.

[Sardy]

From: http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070325...ainmentbritain

New Tolkien book to be published next month: report

LONDON (AFP) - An unfinished book by "Lord of the Rings" author J.R.R. Tolkien, which was completed by his son, will go on sale on next month, a newspaper said.

ADVERTISEMENT

"The Children of Hurin", which Tolkien began in 1918, will be in bookshops on April 17, the Independent on Sunday added. The author's son, Christopher, spent 30 years completing the story from the many drafts produced by his father.

Publisher HarperCollins is keeping exact details of the story under close wraps but its description as "an epic story of adventure, tragedy, fellowship and heroism" will be familiar to the legions of Tolkien fans.

Artist Alan Lee has provided 25 pencil sketches and eight paintings for the book.

Lee won an Oscar for art direction on Peter Jackson's "The Return of the King", the third blockbuster film based on the "Lord of Rings" trilogy that brought the stories to a worldwide audience.

"The Children of Hurin" is the first "new" Tolkien book since a collection of his works -- "The Silmarillion" -- was published posthumously in 1977, four years after the writer's death. It was also edited by Christopher Tolkien.

The chairman of the Tolkien Society, Chris Crawshaw, was quoted by the Independent on Sunday as saying: "It ('The Children of Hurin') would probably make a very good movie, if anyone can secure the film rights."

[William Cloud Hicklin]

"The Children of Hurin", which Tolkien began in 1918, will be in bookshops on April 17, the Independent on Sunday added. The author's son, Christopher, spent 30 years completing the story from the many drafts produced by his father.

Publisher HarperCollins is keeping exact details of the story under close wraps...

Don't you love the press?

(Just in case there are any newbies reading this, JRRT worked on the Narn i*Chin Hurin between about 1955 and 1959, although the earliest version of Turin's story was written as part of The Book of Lost Tales during or just after WWI. Christopher Tolkien has only been working on this particular book for about 2 years, although he has been editing his father's papers generally for over 30. And of course "details of the story" have been well-known since 1980, if not 1977).

[davem]

http://tolkiennews.net/article.php?s...70327164529601

Barnes & Noble in New York were originally limiting sales of CoH signed by Christopher Tolkien & Alan Lee to five copies per person. They've now reduced it to two copies per person.

So how many copies have been signed - one assumes that it was a good few dozen, if not a few score, if B&N could make so many signed copies available to each customer - if they only had 10 or 20 copies surely they would have set a limit of one per person.

The other thing that I personally find deeply annoying is that this seems to be the only place (apart from the Tolkien Library competition linked to above) where copies signed by CT & AL will be available. So it would seem that B&N have bought up all the signed copies for their customers.

Now, this seems deeply wrong - & I'm not being chauvinistic here - most of us fans (even in the US) do not live in, or have access to B&N in New York on that day. It strikes me that 'market forces' have played a very nasty part in this & it leaves a bit of a nasty taste in the mouth......

Of course, it may be that other places have copies signed by both CT & AL, but I've not heard of it.

I didn't want anything mar the appearance of this major work, but this is not fair - imo.

I'm grateful for the chance to get a copy (however slim that chance may be) via the efforts of the Tolkien Library/Tolkien Gateway, but the idea that the rest of us have to take our chances in a competition while New Yorkers can stroll into B&N & pick a couple off the shelf seems too wrong for words...

[Hyarion]

davem, thanks for the link

I believe Megan of Houghton Mifflin stated the number of copies was in the hundreds, but not thousands. I would assume these were split between HM and HC, which would have me guess at a max of 500 total, 250 for HM (if they were split evenly), but I don't know if HM would give them all to B&N.

I think the limit of 5 per person was simply a B&N standard and was not considered for the specific event or based on how many were available, and then when all those phone calls started pouring in they began to realize what the demand would be like

I definitely think there is going to be more than 10 or 20, but I can't imagine more than 200/250. Which means if you're past number 100 in line, you won't have much luck.

The fact that there haven't been any other announced events makes me think the number is so small, that they didn't bother giving some away in LA or some place as well, so it could very well be they have more like 100 to give away.

However, our copies are from HarperCollins, not Houghton Mifflin, so this leads me to believe that HC still has their share, why they haven't announced anything is beyond me, as I haven't heard of any other events either.

I'm in the same boat as you regarding feeling a bit upset about this whole situation. I've had people from NY tell me they will be going to B&N, and they saw the films but haven't read the books yet...so obviously these copies are probably not going to be distributed to the biggest fans. And selling for loads on eBay is simply going to disperse them to the rich.

I think the other 2 copies we give away will be based on a trivia contest, or at least one will be, that way at least those who know a lot about the stories will have a higher chance of winning.

Best of luck in getting one

[davem]

Hyarion I can see, as you say, some very rich collectors ending up with most of the signed copies - which seems completely unfair. These copies should go to serious collectors (& while I would love a copy myself I just feel that people like my friend geordie over at the Plaza ought to have a copy signed by CT, given the amount of time & effort he's put into his collection - though if one of your copies is available to the winner of a Tolkien trivia competition he has a pretty good chance!).

I wish this part of the launch (small though it be) had been better organised by the publishers. This is a unique event in publishing, & the appearance of this book is so significant to so many, that to simply 'dump' so many of the signed copies in one store seems WRONG.


Mind you, what you say about Harper Collins having some gets me thinking - they are about to launch their re-vamped Tolkien.co.uk site .... might we expect a 'Site launch competition, with a few hundred signed copies on offer?????

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I'm reassured to hear that, Hyarion. I agree with davem that there are some people who are so dedicated to Tolkien that they seem to deserve to have the latest collectables. A trivia competition seems a better way of finding out who they are than blind luck. However, market forces being what they are, I can see that only the the rich or the very dedicated will be able to get hold of one of these once the initial round of sales and competitions is over.

Naturally I've not been working on my Tolkien collection long enough to count among the meritorious, but I'll be taking every chance to get hold of a signed copy anyway for obvious reasons. I doubt that CRT will be available to sign any copies I might buy in the near future.

It's tempting to think of a HarperCollins competition to give away some goodies. Judging by some of the items that crop up on collectors' sites they keep back some rare Tolkien publications, like signed first impressions of LR, but such retention would still leave them with a good few dozen copies to give away or offer for sale at a higher rate. Only time will tell what they mean to do.

[Sauron the White]

There seem to be several stores which are making available singed copies by Alan Lee the illustrator. That does not seem to be the problem. However, the sought after signature seems to be that of Christopher Tolkien. The solution to this lack of availability rests completely in his hands. There will be as many signed bookplates available as CT deems there will be. Mr. Tolkien is in his 80's and probably is not eager to sign thousands of bookplates in time for the release date in Mid April.

As a solution perhaps he could be convinced to sing more bookplates over time, say a few hundred a month and make them available as needed selling just one or two to collectors. This would keep availability at a high level while keeping the scalpers at bay and keeping the price affordable. In addition to his fine work as editor and keeper of the flame, this would be a great service to his public.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

As a solution perhaps he could be convinced to sing more bookplates over time, say a few hundred a month and make them available as needed selling just one or two to collectors. This would keep availability at a high level while keeping the scalpers at bay and keeping the price affordable. In addition to his fine work as editor and keeper of the flame, this would be a great service to his public.

Possibly - though that would decrease the rarity value of signed copies. My own solution would have been for the books/bookplates to have been made available via the Publishers websites - either for direct sale or as prizes. As I said, the most annoying aspect of this is that if you happen to be in New York you can line up & pick a couple of signed editions off the shelf & if you live elsewhere you have virtually no chance - when did Big Apple residents become the 'chosen few' with special priority over the rest of us 'lesser' mortals?

However such a thing has happened before. At the 1992 Tolkien Centenary Conference in Oxford attendees were each given a cassette recording by Christopher Tolkien of 'The Homecoming of Beortnoth' which have never been made available elsewhere - but they at least went to serious fans (well to serious fans who could afford to attend a week long Tolkien Conference........). At the 2005 Conference we got a plastic pen with 'Tolkien 2005' on it.

[Sauron the White]

davem - what is the goal here? You mention rarity of signed copies. Of course the law and supply and demand will raise its head - ugly or otherwise and the smaller the number of signed copies the greater their cost. But is that of any concern to a true Tolkien collector who wants a signed copy on their shelf? For me I really could not care less about how much something is worth unless I am purchasing it and have to shell out the cash. I imagine my heirs will care a great deal when they have to dispose of all this stuff - but until then it all stays here and I enjoy it. It matters not to me if there are 250 signed copies of COH or 2,500. It matters not to me if they are worth the issue price of under thirty dollars or if someone on ebay manages to get a thousand dollars for one. I merely want one signed copy to go with the rest of my collection. I imagine many others are in the same boat.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

It matters not to me if they are worth the issue price of under thirty dollars or if someone on ebay manages to get a thousand dollars for one. I merely want one signed copy to go with the rest of my collection. I imagine many others are in the same boat.

Of course - yet there will never be 2,500 signed copies. There will inevitably be a limit & because of that the ones there are should be made more widely available. Certainly it would be nice if every copy was signed. Yet rarity is special. To own something rare appeals to our natural egotism if nothing else - but I think there is more to it than that. I have books that were owned by Michael Tolkien, given him by his father. No-one else has them because they're unique & therefore 'special'. Its the chance discovery, the 'odd' coincidences that lead to such things, that make them special. The chase, the possibility of not obtaining them for oneself, & the holding of them when you eventually do get them, is part of what makes it special.

When I heard about the books I have I wanted them, & the whole process of contacting the seller, waiting with anticipation for a reply, sending off the cheque, even worrying whether they would get lost in the post( ) was all part of the excitement. Even the disappointment that I'd have felt if I hadn't got them added to the whole thing.

Having so many copies available to so few people which are innaccessible to the rest of us is unfair. I want all fans to have a fair & equal chance of getting the signed copies that there are. That way I'd mind less if I didn't get one myself - because I'd know I'd had as much chance as anyone else, & that the ones who did get them didn't get them just because of where they happened to live, or enough money to buy them on ebay.

[Sauron the White]

davem - WOW!!! You have books that came from the Tolkien family. That is extremely impressive and I appreciate your telling of the tale of how you obtained them. It helps me understand your position.

There is one thing in your post which seems to be crucial. You say

I want all fans to have a fair & equal chance of getting the signed copies that there are.

The fly in the ointment is always how you define these things. What to you is fair and equal chance? Can there ever really be such things?

[davem]

Originally Posted by Sauron the White

The fly in the ointment is always how you define these things. What to you is fair and equal chance? Can there ever really be such things?

No, but it could be fairer than it seems it will be.

As to the books - I've told the story elsewhere on the Downs. And the dealer who bought Michael Tolkien's library still has books of his for sale (or had last time I was in touch), so they aren't hard to get hold of - hence, owning such books is not a rare thing, but its special to own such things when there's only one (or a few) of each. I'm sure the dealer would like to sell them on to anyone who's interested - its his business after all, so anyone who's interested can own something with a family connection fairly easily & relatively cheaply (the six volume set of Gibbon was £100).

In fact, here you go
http://www.abebooks.com/home/NEILEWART/

And a couple of Tolkien books owned by Michael Tolkien here
http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Sear...n&x=0&sortby=2

[Mithalwen]

Adam Tolkien is going to be at the Waterstones all day launch thang

[davem]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Adam Tolkien is going to be at the Waterstones all day launch thang

So are you going still going as Nienor?

[davem]

http://tolkiennews.net/article.php?s...07032812464431

FREE signed bookplates for the first fifty people through doors at Waterstones in London.

I like to feel this is all down to my protest here on the Downs over the matter.

However, New York & London aren't the only places where Tolkien fans live, so its only a slight improvement on a bad situation....

so far

At the 1992 Tolkien Centenary Conference in Oxford attendees were each given a cassette recording by Christopher Tolkien of 'The Homecoming of Beortnoth' which have never been made available elsewhere - but they at least went to serious fans (well to serious fans who could afford to attend a week long Tolkien Conference........).

Wrong. http://www.tolkienshop.com/contents/en-uk/d42.html says:

Christopher Tolkien reads Beorhtnoth's Death and Ofermod € 17,95
The cd is introduced by Christopher Tolkien. A nice recording Tokien made in his study of the Medieval poem. He makes his own sound effects (and you can hear a car going through the street...)

True, it's not an original cassette, but the recording itself is the important part, isn't it? It's very interesting to hear Tolkien chant part of the Dies Irea.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Balrog

Wrong. http://www.tolkienshop.com/contents/en-uk/d42.html says:



True, it's not an original cassette, but the recording itself is the important part, isn't it? It's very interesting to hear Tolkien chant part of the Dies Irea.

Well, that's put me in my place. However, I'm not sure about the exact legality of the particular CD in question. Tolkien did record Beortnoth for the BBC in the fifties, so I'm not sure its the same recording I spoke about - though it may be. Thanks for the info anyway.

[Lalwendë]

I wouldn't lay bets on the fact that those first in line will include a large number of those hoping to 'sell on' as quickly as possible. *cough* eBay *cough*

There's currently an issue in the UK with people snapping up sought after gig and festival tickets and selling them on - about 400,000 people registered for Glastonbury tickets and the site only holds about 100,000 people. An enormous number of these tickets then get put up on eBay or other sites (not just to blame eBay to be fair!) and those who are real fans have to pay the inflated prices or simply not have what they want.

So yes, I'm annoyed too. Mostly because I can see what will happen...

[davem]

The Bookseller reports on Harper Collins plans for promoting CoH here

HarperCollins will be advertising the book in Earls Court around the London Book Fair, and working in partnership with the Telegraph over the weekend of 21st and 22nd April. The Telegraph partnership will include full-page advertorials, ad placements throughout the whole newspaper, and a competition to "return to Middle-earth" by winning a trip to New Zealand. This will be supported by a month-long campaign on the Telegraph website, that includes a specially created Tolkien microsite, run-of-site advertising, advertorials, downloads and interviews.

Publicity will see a slew of reviews, features and interviews, including a major feature in the Sunday Times Culture magazine the weekend before launch, and interviews on news programmes giving the story behind the new book.

HarperCollins is also planning blanket targeting of the online Tolkien fan base through promotions with key fansites, search portals and social network sites, and a bespoke online PR campaign. There will be a dedicated website at www.tolkien.co.uk.

An all-day event at Waterstone's Piccadilly will launch the book, attended by the author's grandson, Adam Tolkien, and featuring a talk by Alan Lee. A leading "Lord of the Rings" actor will read extracts from the new book, and characters from "The Lord of the Rings" stage show will also be present. Lee will be giving talks and signing books at selected bookshops around publication as well.

[davem]

Sunday Times article here http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle1613657.ece

[narfforc]

Alan Lee will be at the Moreton-in-Marsh Exhibition along with Ted Nasmith on the 20th and 21st of this month, I will get my book signed there, along with the last version of The Silmarillion which Ted has given his marvellous interpretation to.

I think that certainly profit is the motive. Would J.R.R. Tolkien approve? Not to changes of any kind, since we know he carefully pondered every word, to see if it harmonized with the vision he had 'to report'.
Tolkien wanted foremost to entertain. Knowing that his manuscript would now do so, and that very many of us long to enter his world and view new vistas, he would concede with reservations.
I think it should only be done so long as there is a clear differentiation between the text written by J.R.R. Tolkien and that of Mr. Christopher. I do not at all support a text that gives no indication of where the Father ends and the Son begins. Otherwise I am tempted to believe that the whole thing is a fraud, not written by either Tolkien, and we will see that it contains shallow and swift scenes and heavy dialogue, and no doubt will form the basis of a new screneplay. After writing this and just now deliberating on the subject, I would say no.
If we still have questions and long to penetrate deeper into Tolkiens world, then let us become still, and silent, and meditate on this, and see if to us, like to Tolkien, that it might be revealed. Perhaps the desire for more is because we have not fully comprehended the grandeur beauty of what we have.

[Bêthberry]

Originally Posted by davem

Sunday Times article here http://entertainment.timesonline.co....cle1613657.ece

Very fine article there, davem, with some valuable observations about Tolkien's work. I can imagine some fans having hairy fits over the comment that Tolkien was not a writer, but there are some very intriguing avenues of thought to persue there.

Thanks for linking.

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Neithan:

You have Christopher Tolkien all wrong. He's most emphatically NOT in it for the money. If he were he could easily have pulled an Audrey Seuss long since and milked the cash cow shamelessly. Instead, he has opposed (or tried to) virtually all forms of commercial exploitation (although he has no control over what Saul Zaentz licenses). And there's no consideration of a screenplay, since the film rights to CoH will only be sold over CRT's dead body.

The Estate website says that CoH will be "entirely in the author's own words;" my source indicates that this includes a small amount of narrative material which has come to light since Unfinished Tales was published a quarter-century ago.

I admit that my knowledge of these outside the box subjects is limited. I know that Tolkien pondered every word, and I do not read ANY of CT's middle Earth history because much of that material was rejected by Tolkien himself as it did not entirely harmonize with his inner vision. Therefore, in order not to pollute my grasp of the pure and true meaning of Tolkiens revelation I read only what I feel in confidence that Tolkien himself would have been satisfied with, having reached that final developmental stage whereat the text harmonized with the chill that ran up and down his spine when he first spoke the word, "Earendil". For I am concerned, and if I daresay, gifted, above all, with meaning. Most people here ask, 'what did Tolkien say?' I ask, 'what did Tolkien mean?' But thank you, perhaps you have saved the gentlemen from the Inquisition I plan for after I succeed in taking over the world.

[Maglor]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

Maglor:

This is a quote from an interview with Christopher's son Adam linked by Cof7A in post 36 of this thread . So nothing much new to those who have read HoME but newly presented as an entity.. but the article is well worth reading...

Wow...sorry it took so long to respond to this. And then the thread closed, but it's back now, so...

I did read the interview mentioned (it was a good one too) and I did see the quote that you posted, that it is essentially a completed puzzle more than a fresh retelling.

But this quote (from the same article)...

"Many parts of the text will be - if not identical - recognizable to the knowledgeable reader, but there are also pieces that have never appeared before." (emphasis mine)

...gave me the impression that there will be *some* new material, even if it is minimal. I agree with what everyone has said already, that it's basically the same story in the most complete sense, but I still think we may be treated to a little new material, those nothing so large as to alter the plot significantly. Just minor touches, I'm guessing.

But we'll find out soon, won't we?

[Lalwendë]

Children of Hurin is now Number 3 in the Amazon.co.uk bestseller list! Just behind Harry Potter!

[Lalwendë]

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