WWJ II: Welcome to Lower Tadfield. The Apocalypse has Now Begun.

[tar-ancalime]

YesterDAY's votes, in order:

Wilwarin: tar-ancalime
Holbytlass: Glirdan
Sleepy Ranger: Glirdan
sotty: tar-ancalime
Kitanna: Sleepy Ranger
Eonwe: Wilwarin
Gurthang: DEATH
Bergil: DEATH
DEATH: Glirdan
Rune: DEATH

(WaynetheGoblin's vote for DEATH didn't count)

Received votes:

tar-ancalime (2)
Glirdan (3)
Sleepy Ranger (1)
Wilwarin (1)
DEATH (3(4, with Wayne's))

Didn't receive votes:

Hiriel
THE Ka
Kitanna
Holbytlass
Gurthang
Rune
Bergil
Eonwe
sotty
WaynetheGoblin

Didn't vote: tar-ancalime, Hiriel, Glirdan, THE Ka

Reasons for not voting:

tar-ancalime: pure stupidity (miscalculated the deadline)
Hiriel: missed the deadline
Glirdan: ???
THE Ka: ???


With so many abstentions, I'm tempted to think that at least one wolf didn't vote. Good way to stay under the radar, not leave a trail, eh?

Using that theory, either Hiriel or THE Ka is a wolf. I have no other reason to suspect either one of them, so I'm not ready yet to speculate beyond that.

[Kitanna]

Gurthang? Oh dear, must go back a read all he had said. In the meantime though. After the double lynching yesterday I went back to check out how everyone voted and this is what I came up with.

Wilwa- tar-ancalime
Holby- Glirdan
Sleepy Ranger- Glirdan (2)
Sotty- Tar-ancalime (2)
Me- Sleepy Ranger
Eonwe- Wilwa
Gurthang- Márcolië Lamen
Bergil- Marcolie Laman (2)
Wayne- Marcolie Laman (3)
Marcolie Laman- Glirdan (3)
Rune- Marcolie Laman (4)

I’m supposing since Wayne did not put his vote in the proper format it did not count.

So let’s see here. Sleepy, Bergil, and sotty all voted at a time that caused a tie. DEATH came in and broke the first round of ties with her vote for Glirdan, but then Rune came in later and retied the votes for DEATH and Glirdan, thus sealing their fates. Now what can we gather from this. At least one wolf is hiding among those that caused a tie.

Rune~ Voted late (only about ten minutes before day was about to end)

You have made me a bit suspisios of Glirdan and think less ill of DEATH.

Now here is a puzzle. “less suspicious of DEATH and more suspicious of Glirdan.” Now then why vote for DEATH when you could easily have prevented a double lynching.

Now here is a loose theory I have about Sleepy Ranger and sotty. They’re both wolves. They decided on night one that they would try to get a double lynching going by voting for two people who had already gotten a vote. Sleepy Ranger voted first and not long after sotty voted. They didn’t really vote early and they didn’t vote too late. So there was still time for someone to break the tie. That sort of puts a dent in my theory. So, this isn’t an incredibly good theory, but I think there is a possibility it could be true. Now this loose little theory can also work if Bergil is thrown into the mix. He too voted to make a tie…a three way tie. Though the chances of all three being wolves is slim. All wolves voting to make ties seems very bold to me on day one. But I will be watching all three very carefully from now on.

Onto Wayne. It appears his vote did not count. (unless there was a post I missed somewhere bringing Glirdan up to four votes) But judging by the time and who he voted for I am more inclined to find him innocent. Wayne voted at a time when DEATH, tar-ancalime, and Glirdan were all tied. He could easily have voted for Wilwa or Sleepy Ranger to bring it up to a four person tie. Though a four person tie would not have counted, but a tie is a tie in my book. Instead Wayne cast a vote for DEATH, bringing her out of the tie and into the lead. Now that not the best of grounds to find him innocent on, but I will move him lower on my list of suspects because of it. At least for today.

Yesterday I suspected these five people above everyone else: DEATH, Sleepy Ranger, Glirdan, Tar, and Gurthang

Three people out of that are now proven innocent. As for tar and Sleepy Ranger I will watch them both very carefully.

In order I suspect these people:
1)Rune
2)Sleepy Ranger and Sotty
3)And a distant third of Bergil

Tar-ancalime is far down on that list…at least for now. I also think there is a good chance our third wolf did not vote yesterday.

[Kitanna]

Here comes a double post!

Originally Posted by tar-ancalime

With so many abstentions, I'm tempted to think that at least one wolf didn't vote. Good way to stay under the radar, not leave a trail, eh?

I agree and disagree with this. I admit it is a good way for wolves to stay under the rador and at least one wolf probably did not vote, but it is also very dangerous so I doubt today the wolf (if one of those people is a wolf) will miss voting again.

Now onto what I gathered from Gurthang.

Post #6 Gurthang throw out DEATH and Wayne as suspects. Clearly just baseless accussations based on previous games and occupations. Not much to be gained there.

Post #14 he comments on Glirdan's Eonwe trust. Is the first to bring up the odds being against Eonwe to be a wolf two times in a row. Also says wolves will stay away from being too loud or too quiet.

Post #16 he calls out tar on her plan of "refraining to accuse innocents". He encourages everyone to "let the accusations and defenses fly".

Post #22 calls out tar again on her jumpiness and flip-flopping. Suggests a possible Eonwe/Tar wolf strategy. Says though it is probably unlikely.

Post #34 Not much in this post. Talks about Eonwe's chances of being a wolf again. Responds to SR's problems with random, baseless accussations, saying it is a good way to start day one.

Post #37 continues to defend (if that be the right word) his reasons for suspecting Eonwe less.

Post #47 Asks for reasons from Rune and Glirdan why they suspect who they do. Mentions Glirdan and Tar as suspects. Also mentions DEATH but not in an accussing way.

Post #61 votes for DEATH.

So what can we gather from this? Well, one way to look at it is that the wolves killed Gurthang because he was no one near getting one of them and they wanted to frame up someone else. If that is the case they were trying to fram up tar or possibly Eonwe because those two Gurthang mentioned most.

Or Gurthang was hitting close to home. Which again would point to tar and Eonwe. And they figured they could fake out the village and claim a frame up. I think both theories are equally likely.

[sotty]

A mighty interesting theory you have there Kitanna and I won't just shoot it out of the water because you suggested me as a wolf. The best I can do is lay out the reasons why I did vote for Tar-ancalime in the end.

Before I casted my vote I made a post (number 42) talking about my suspicions for DEATH and at that time I was pretty sure I was going to vote for her. When I came to re-read the thread and my notes, I found that I had more points about Tar-ancalime. with it being the first day, they weren't particularly strong points but I deiced to go with the more evidence I had.

As for Sleepy and myself voting around the same time producing a tie, well I don't know what to say about that but unfortunate timing. Like you said there is a flaw in this theory because we both voted early enough for others to come along and break the two way tie. I can't speak for Sleepy as he didn't not list his reasons as to why he voted the way he did, but I was just acting on what I found in the thread and voting at a time I was ready to do so.

Originally Posted by ”Kitanna”

I also think there is a good chance our third wolf did not vote yesterday

This I agree with. Both Tar and Hiriel claimed confusion with the time which is quite believable considering I was confused on the time myself yesterday, but Hiriel made a lengthy post before the deadline and made no vote, I'm just wondering why the wait? Were you waiting for more clues? I'm not sure about THE Ka as I don't believe she posted at all yesterday so I'm hoping to hear from her/him today.

[Hiriel]

Herm. Ok! Now on the proper time.

But Hiriel made a lengthy post before the deadline and made no vote, I'm just wondering why the wait? Were you waiting for more clues?

Well, yeah, yeah I was. Maybe I'm just a horrid procrastinator, but I like to wait till the last minute, to see if anything at all comes up that could help inform my vote. I had no idea who to vote for when I made that lengthy post. I suspected DEATH, and Tar, and Glirdy, but I really doubted that I'd hit on a wolf the first go. I was waiting to see if anything else might turn up on the thread before I had to make my choice.

Will look at posts since Gurthang's death in depth first chance I get tomorrow. Alas, but reading the Comedy of Errors (hopefully won't discribe this village's voting pattern) must come first.

[THE Ka]

THE Ka: ???

I have an excuse, that I hope will bare with two witnesses...

This is my one and only valuable reason: I was asking both you and AOR about specific guildlines that I had not known about, so I could clear up anything when I was playing further on. In layman's terms, I'm as dumb as a doornail when it comes to this game and I wanted to at least avoid asking annoying questions every five minutes, and thus complicating the game. Plus, I thought I would have enough time to study the evidence, ponder it philosophically and delcare my vote after school activities. I was wrong, and forgot to count three hours ahead of mine own. Sorry for this absence, I have the rest of the week off so, I'll be able to contribute as best as I can.


-----------------

Okay, on to werewolf business. Let's see, our Gurthang died. I give my simpathy, but on to the evidence!

Post #16 he calls out tar on her plan of "refraining to accuse innocents". He encourages everyone to "let the accusations and defenses fly".

Post #22 calls out tar again on her jumpiness and flip-flopping. Suggests a possible Eonwe/Tar wolf strategy. Says though it is probably unlikely.

Quite a rigid Rationalist I see. Well, I shall have to play the Skeptic on this one, though I do not wish to travel down a Sophists' road with this. So, I won't look at too much evidence and try to stay clear of over-explanitory posts.

Post #47 Asks for reasons from Rune and Glirdan why they suspect who they do. Mentions Glirdan and Tar as suspects. Also mentions DEATH but not in an accussing way.

Post #61 votes for DEATH

Well, this leads to a contradiction due to the first post, but ideas can change... Unfortunately, this is not as believable coming from a rationalist. So, i'm not buying it. I'm agreeing to only half extent with Kitanna on this one. Either someone wants a frame, really badly with personal matters, or we have some rather elusive werewolves. Though, I do believe that the wolves might have not planned for one of theirs to not vote on an attack, the first night or second. The arguments are too juvenile in this stage, if Eonwe is a werewolf it would be rather foolish to be hot-headed and rid of a problematic player from the start. (Thus, from what that player and the 'werewolf' have said, it's a perfect frame as to who is a suspect.) Though, maybe I am over estimating all of this.

My vote is not definate until I can see more prespectives... Sorry, it's a 'big picture' thing. I don't want to leave everything out of my final, or somewhat final conclusion.


~ Ophelious Philosopher

Oh, this is making my mind spin like Kant!

[tar-ancalime]

Some more thoughts:

I agree with Kitanna's point about Rune's vote being worth discussing, but for a slightly different reason.

At the time Rune voted, it was not yet clear that WaynetheGoblin's vote for DEATH was not going to count. If we include his vote in the tally at the time of Rune's voting, there was already a majority for DEATH.

Therefore Rune, by voting for the person who's already got the most votes, is making a very safe move. He couldn't have known that there would be so many abstentions, so he would have had to consider that four others would be voting after him. Voting to create a tie (i.e. a wolf engineering a double lynching, as Kitanna implies) just shouldn't have worked. (Yes, even though Rune could have reasonably assumed that DEATH would vote as she did, the only way she could vote to possibly save herself--there still should have been several more votes coming.)

But voting for the person who's already got a majority, when there are still 4 voters presumably to come and "cover his tracks," is a "safe" move, an "unobtrusive" move, one which could point either to a wolf hiding in the crowd, or to an unsure villager not wanting to cast any new suspicions.

HOWEVER, as I noted above, Rune could have reasonably assumed that DEATH would vote for Glirdan as she did. Therefore, it would have been DEATH's vote that created the tie if WaynetheGoblin's vote had counted, and Rune's vote would have acted as a tiebreaker to lynch DEATH instead of Glirdan. Those two votes coming at the same instant as they did really does confuse the matter of who assumed what...

All this, which I hope isn't too tortuous, is to say that I think Rune's vote, coupled with his comment pointed out above by Kitanna (that he suspected Glirdan and possibly me more than DEATH), was interesting, important, and noteworthy.

This is NOT to say that I've got any real suspicions of Rune, though--my reasoning only works IF Rune thought Wayne's vote counted, IF Rune thought the abstainers were about to vote at the last minute, IF Rune assumed correctly that DEATH would vote for Glirdan, and IF I haven't made any logical errors.

Just throwing out ideas.

I will have to vote very early toDAY due to non-Tadfield constraints on my schedule, so I'm hoping to see some more discussion within the next few hours.

[tar-ancalime]

All right, I've got to take a deep breath and vote...on very little information.

The only thing I can even guess at is that, as I said before, a wolf abstained from voting yesterday. That means that either Hiriel or THE Ka is a suspect. Simply because Hiriel's post today made more sense to me than THE Ka's (which seemed to obscure things rather than clarify them), I'm tempted to vote for THE Ka.

But then again, who knows? I know that anything I do right now is very flimsy.

So...

++THE Ka

May Eru have mercy on my soul!

[Sleepy Ranger]

Oh my! It seems people are throwing suspicion my way. I'll try clearing some things up

Now my whole purpose of posting my list at the beginning was to see how people responded to a random accusation. I felt uneasy each time SR brought up thinking logically and not pointing the blame due to randomness. If we all sat around looking at opening posts and trying to find logic in them we'd be doomed. He says "We need to start somewhere..." but if we do not put some form of accusation out there (no matter how random) then we can't really start.

First of all you got the complete opposite meaning of my little 'logical thinking' rant. I am not against a bit of randomness but I said that starting from professions was ahem, stupid. What I did say was think things over before posting it, I did not say do not post I just said make sure you know what you're posting and if it makes any sense.

Not pointing out blame? Oh my, you seem to have mis-understood me. I said accuse would be a better word than blame and I said that we shouldn't randomly throw around blame...

As in- X- I bet Y is the wolf.[/b] (Thats what I'm against, I mean just saying it out. Sure if you suspect somebody but can't really put your finger on it then by all means go ahead and say I find this person suspicious but if you're going to go all out and BLAME somebody without any reason thats what I'm against.)

Moving on-

I find this to contradict itself. He says people are giving random posts for evidence that isn't there, but right away he says things today are going to be quite random. So then, why is there just a problem for random suspicions and evidence if that seems to be what day one is made of?

To me it seems you are just completely ignoring the whole fact that I made the post against accusing people because of their occupation NOT random ones...

And finally SR voted for Glirdan, for "reasons stated by other people", well which reasons? Which people? Perhaps SR is trying to start a bandwagong, seeing as there is already one vote for Glirdan.

I did not have time to put up reasons but I shall gladly do so now-

Glirdan - has been accused of trying to send Seer hints. Hinting so drastically this early is not a great idea. Wouldn't want a dead Seer on Night 2. Might be a masquerading wolf, might be the Seer, or we might be reading too much into things. Watch.

This post by Gurthy got me thinking.

Glirdan~ Because of his strange posts regarding Eonwe. Now there's a chance he is a very bold seer, but his hints toward it are very bold and very dangerous. He could be a wolf leading off his scent and trying to throw it elsewhere. (piggybacking on an innocent...) Or he really could have a strong gut feeling.

And as you yourself said Kitanna

And you obviously missed this part of my quote-

and because I really don't have a main suspect.

I did use a bit of randomness and now it seems strange to me, you keep telling people that I'm against randomness (Which I'm not. I'm against blaming with no reason and accusing because of occupation or some other moot detail) and then you condemn me for using a bit of randomness. This places Kitanna moderately high on my suspicions list but I don't think I'll vote for her, I want to see how things work out and perhaps do a bit of re-reading before I do make a choice.

As for band-waggoning, now thats just silly... I believe I was the third person to vote and how would 2 votes start a band-wagon? If I did want to get somebody band-waggoned I'd have stated reasons to prove their guilt rather than just going with what some others (you included) said. I needed to vote and at the time I felt Glirdan was a wolf.

Now here is a loose theory I have about Sleepy Ranger and sotty. They’re both wolves. They decided on night one that they would try to get a double lynching going by voting for two people who had already gotten a vote. Sleepy Ranger voted first and not long after sotty voted. They didn’t really vote early and they didn’t vote too late. So there was still time for someone to break the tie. That sort of puts a dent in my theory. So, this isn’t an incredibly good theory, but I think there is a possibility it could be true.

Mine was the third vote I believe so it was well before the others and how on earth would I know when Sotty or anybody else planned on voting?

Hopefully that clears somethings up. I'm a bit busy with athletics today so I won't have time to go through much but I believe there may be something to find in 3 pages of posts.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Sorry for the double-post but I didn't want to edit the one above.
tar's vote for THE Ka seems to have come out of the blue... I'd like to point Kitanna in tar's direction because she seems to dis-like people who vote for reasons others have stated. </sarcasm>

Ahem but seriously does anybody else find tar's vote disturbing? I mean it is rather early in the day and we don't really have much on Ka except for her not posting. I'll be keeping an eye on tar from now on.

I apologize if you find my comment offensive Kitanna. It serves no meaning except to perhaps give someone a laugh

[Eonwe]

i don't really find it taht weird, as of now. maybe it will chance as time moves on and the evidence mounts, if you kow waht i mean. Tar is certainly on the List, but quite a few people are, as far as im conserned.

just checking in, im be back on in like an hour or two...

[WaynetheGoblin]

Well tar vote is strange. He is now higher on my suspect list. Also poor poor gurthang he didnt stand a chanch.

[THE Ka]

Originally Posted by tar-ancalime

All right, I've got to take a deep breath and vote...on very little information.

The only thing I can even guess at is that, as I said before, a wolf abstained from voting yesterday. That means that either Hiriel or THE Ka is a suspect. Simply because Hiriel's post today made more sense to me than THE Ka's (which seemed to obscure things rather than clarify them), I'm tempted to vote for THE Ka.

But then again, who knows? I know that anything I do right now is very flimsy.

So...

++THE Ka

May Eru have mercy on my soul!

No, may Berkelley have mercy on your soul...

I did not vote the other day because of time differences, and that i'm stupid. I live (obviously) in the Pacific Time Zone and I completely forgot to count three hours ahead. Instead, I was greeted by a thread saying, 'IT IS NOW NIGHT', so of course I could not vote. Another reason is that i'm stupid, and still did not grasp this game, thus I had to send messages to AbercrombieOfRohan asking about things such as votes, where do I vote, when do I vote, ect...

Yes, I was that mindless the otherday about this game.

Now, thankfully I do know how to play and am gathering facts for my final vote.

Sincerely,

~ Ka

P.S. If you are still quite confused, I would more than happy to send you originals of my messages, though I believe you may have to ask permission from AOR before doing so, since they were the other person in correspondence. Hope this helps.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Sleepy Ranger

Mine was the third vote I believe so it was well before the others and how on earth would I know when Sotty or anybody else planned on voting?

If you are a wolf it would be easy for you and sotty to plan it out the night before. But still that theory of mine remains loose. I have other people to look after first before you and sotty.

Now to bring up what tar-ancalime said about Rune and his vote. At the time Rune voted DEATH had given a list of votes so far, excluding Wayne's. Now of course DEATH was not the mod, but also Wayne's vote could of course been overlooked. So assuming Rune was going off of DEATH's list then he would have seen the oppurtunity of bringing about a tie. Of course that is unlikey, but there is also the possibility of him realizing Wayne's vote would not be counted due to its format.

But voting for the person who's already got a majority, when there are still 4 voters presumably to come and "cover his tracks," is a "safe" move, an "unobtrusive" move, one which could point either to a wolf hiding in the crowd, or to an unsure villager not wanting to cast any new suspicions.

I had given little thought to that. If Rune took into account Wayne's vote then he could have seen it as a chance to hide because "he had helped put DEATH in the lead." I have a gut feeling about Rune and I hope to hear from him soon.

But also tar-ancalime, I find your vote for THE Ka odd...I do not see a huge problem with voting so early. Sometimes life just gets in the way. But the fact you would vote for Ka because of her "obscuring things" is unsettling. You too missed the vote yesterday for a miscalulation of time which is what happened to Ka. One way for me to look at your reasons is that you want to throw attention off yourself because you also did not vote and some still suspect you from yesterday. Or you are at a lose for who to vote for so you picked off the list of those who did not vote.

In the next hour or so I am going to have to cast a vote because I will be gone when day ends. So do not think ill of me because of that.

[Eonwe]

let me see. there seems to be allot of people not doing allot of talking. taht would be weird, but people are prolly on different time zones. all the same, i don't like silence from anyone. becuse if you don't say anything, nothing can be held against you. perfect wolf stratagy, in my book. (nothing except not saying anything, that is )

ok my List breaks down as follows.

THE Ka: a wolf would be better prepared to vote, talk, expain, etc. and she gave some real life reasoning. if that stuffs not true, you are the base master of treachery. so im willing to let her off.

Tar-ancalime: seems a bit suspicious. kind of freaked out yesterday. but that happens to newcomers to werewolf infested villages. nothing really.

Wilwarin: i'd like to hear some more from you. but i don't know waht timezone you are, so you may have very good reasons for being silent for long periods of time. i guess silence is kind of relative, because im silent to you for long periods of time, possibley. anyway....

Sleepy Ranger: i don't konwwww. i hope he isn't a wolf. he hasn't given me any reason to think so, but all the same, i watching you....

Holbytlass: i'd like to hear more from you. but the same stuff as i said about wilwarin appies here, too.

Eonwe: the only one im sure of.

there seems to be allot taht we can gleen from the voting records. but not i, i must go to class...

[Holbytlass]

A bit redundent, but we all like to see things our own way. BTW, I was taught this by a lovely chap selling saucepans....

Wilwarin-->Tar-Ancalime (tar-1)
Holby-->Glirdan (tar-1, glir-1)
SleepyRanger-->Glirdan (tar-1, glir-2)
Sotty-->Tar-ancalime (tar-2, glir-2)
Kittanna-->Sleepy Ranger (tar-2, glir-2, sleep-1)
Eonwe-->Wilwarin (tar-2, glir-2, sleep-1, wil-1)
Gurthang-->Marcolie (tar-2, glir-2 sleep-1, wil-1, marc-1)
Bergil-->Marcolie (tar-2, glir-2, sleep-1, wil-1, marc-2)
Wayne-->Marcolie (doesn't count)
Marcolie-->Glirdan (tar-2, glir-3, sleep-1, wil-1, marc-2)
Rune-->Marcolie (tar-2, glir-3, sleep-1, wil-1, marc-3)

no vote: Glirdan, Tar-ancolime, Hiriel, The Ka


First to bandwagon on Glirdan (I do consider the second vote bandwaggoning, but not the most suspicious) is Sleepy Ranger, what makes it somewhat suspicious is he didn't speak of suspicions against Glirdan or anyone outright.
Marcolie did band on Glirdan, but that was to save herself and really it's a moot point cause she's dead.

First to bandwaggon on Tar is Sotty. He did voice suspicion against Tar so not that suspicios to me.

First to band on Marcolie is Bergil, never spoke of suspicions against her, only half-heartedly names three others. QUOTE: I don't suspect her in the least' but I must vote for someone'. What is the most interesting, with his vote, he made the 3 way tie. If it was so random, he could've broke the tie or voted for someone else. Bergil being a wolf, didn't care who got it. If this theory is true, then I would have to conclude that Tar-ancalime is an innocent.

Then there is Wayne: his vote that didn't count really befuddles everything that happened after. I shall give him the benefit of the doubt. Had it counted, he broke a tie that would send 2 people to their deaths, and I was confused with the voting rules, so I can't hold that against anybody else.

Third to band on Marcolie Rune: hard to really know, if he thought Wayne's counted, then broke a tie, if he knew wayne's didn't count then brought on the tie. But he did voice suspicon of Marcolie earlier.

All of this with the underestanding more votes to come, but some never did.



Suspect list:
Tar-ancalime
Hiriel
The Ka
for no votes, sorry that's automatic in my book, but not necessarily the most suspicious

Bergil
Sleepy Ranger
Rune
For reasons stated above, all can change it's still so early

[Kitanna]

So before I cast my vote I have one last thing to say about Gurthang's death. It was bothering me why Gurthang was killed, but I couldn't quite put my finger on why. Then as I was at work this morning it hit me. THE Ka. The fact Ka was not attacked is what was sitting in the back of my mind. She was a prime wolf target. She hadn't spoken yet so her death would lead us all back to square one tomorrow. But no, Ka was spared. So either we have very merciful wolves who wanted to give her a chance or Ka is a wolf herself. I am far more inclined to believe our wolves wanted to give Ka at least a chance to say something before doing her in, but I won't rule out the possibilty she is a wolf. I won't act on this theory though, not yet anyway, not until more evidence for or against Ka has come to the surface. But this is something to think about.

Now onto my vote, which I hate to cast so early, but I must.

++ Rune

I wish Rune had said something before I did this, but he has not. I said before I found Rune's vote from yesterday. Here are the two theories that have been stated about him.
A) He knew Wayne's vote wouldn't count and voted for DEATH to bring in a tie. A very wolfish thing to do.
B) He thought Wayne's vote would be counted and voted for DEATH to put her in the lead because then he'd look less suspicious when an innocent died. A very clever way of cover wolf prints.
Either theory makes Rune look bad and wolfish. But what also sets him off in my mind is the fact he suspected Glirdan more and yet in that same post he voted for DEATH. Taking into account possibilties A and B it still gives Rune a less than flattering image in my eyes.
Also Gurthang would have been a wise choice for Rune to attack at night. Gurthang mentioned him only once and it was to ask for reasons for his suspects. So a decision to kill Gurthang would leave no trail to Rune.

I'll be floating around for a little while longer to see what else happens.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Hey sorry I have not postet before, but things have been kind of crazy here.

Since most people votet randomly or on very loose suspisions, it is hard to tell that much.

I have not found anything in Gurthy's posts that point in one direction, but it would properly not have been tar-ancalime who is a wolf becourse she was one of his main suspects. (the other was DEATH and we were wrong about it!)

Well I have to go, but will return in 2 houres or so.

[Sleepy Ranger]

what makes it somewhat suspicious is he didn't speak of suspicions against Glirdan or anyone outright.

Post #88 explains my reasons. And as to why I didn't speak of suspicions is because I lacked them. It is very hard to get a suspect on Day 1 and sometimes even Day 2. Because things can be a bit uneasy in the beginning and having a clear of view of things can be hard. I don't really like voicing suspicions, I prefer to keep them to myself until I can get a decent backing to it. If its just a gut feeling I'd rather ignore it lest it lead to in-fighting and setting alight tempers. I mean if we end up fighting amongst ourselves it'll be easier for the wolves to walk away with it. Though I do let people know who I suspect I don't go all out and accuse them and most of the time I just say something like I've got my eye on you.

Now I'm not saying don't suspect or post those suspicions I was just telling you why I don't post them. As for considering a second vote band-waggoning...well I guess its upto how you see it. As for myself I've never really paid much attention to band-waggoning and I'll vote for whom I believe to be a wolf... In Glirdan's case there was a bit of randomness but I daresay you wouldn't have liked it even more if I hadn't voted.

After reading Kitanna's posts and reading through Rune's posts I believe he may be a wolf and his reply doesn't really help him much.

[THE Ka]

Well, let's see here...

Starting from the beginning, there seems to be at least three distinct relations and votes between players, two of them, I believe are in some way related. As for the other, it's most likely going to boil over into whichever of the first two prove victorious. So, we have two battling and one watching, simply put.

One and two share a suspect, Marcolie, but we have Rune on one reasoning, and Bergil on another. Plus, we have Marcolie voting for Glirdan, who is also voted for by Sleepy.

First to bandwagon on Glirdan (I do consider the second vote bandwaggoning, but not the most suspicious) is Sleepy Ranger, what makes it somewhat suspicious is he didn't speak of suspicions against Glirdan or anyone outright.

I am not going to outright make a statement as to if SR is a wolf or not, but possibly since it was very early in the game, as a voter you would have to pick something that wouldn't be too confusing with the already established vote. Or, someone else is pushing the envelope on this turn out for Glirdan, possibly to cover up another voting plan (?).

First to band on Marcolie is Bergil, never spoke of suspicions against her, only half-heartedly names three others. QUOTE: I don't suspect her in the least' but I must vote for someone'. What is the most interesting, with his vote, he made the 3 way tie. If it was so random, he could've broke the tie or voted for someone else. Bergil being a wolf, didn't care who got it. If this theory is true, then I would have to conclude that Tar-ancalime is an innocent.

Possibly, if something was so random it shouldn't have been so well planned in the way it fell in the concluding count. Either that, as I've mentioned before, there is possibly another voting plan that is in place, but it needs one of the bigger ones to get out of the way first, ect. So, one is true and the other vote isn't, plus we have the other voting plan (most likely werewolf induced) waiting.
So, it's just a choosing of the blue pill or red pill, really.

I'm seeing a reasonable account with the Wayne theory, since with it being the first day and having voting problems (I was another one) usually was a believable answer. Because of this, I believe it pro-longed one of the voting plans, and thus made Rune's vote fall as it did. Since, from what i've read Rune voted possibly before Wayne, though I might be reading it wrong.

One way for me to look at your reasons is that you want to throw attention off yourself because you also did not vote and some still suspect you from yesterday. Or you are at a lose for who to vote for so you picked off the list of those who did not vote.

Doesn't everyone... But, voting problems and time calculations seemed to be rather reasonable the first day of voting. Plus, there is the pressure of declaring a vote, then diving in and hoping your won't drown under a big miscalculation that will immediately throw you into the hot pan of suspicion. But, then again, if you don't vote, your only chance at getting off the suspicion list is to pick a fellow non-voter, since this can be seen as a 'reasonable' vote that the person could be a werewolf, ect. When it doesn't work is when we are able to clear away non-voters through their reasoning. Anyone left who hasn't taken in the opportunity to do so is still on this list, and thus a suspect again.

Non-voting the first night as I have been able to guess was due to two reasons:

- New players unsure of voting, time zone miscalculations, first night pressure, ect.

- Early werewolf tactics and voting plans. The most agreed upon theory of finding out possible suspects (ex. 'werewolf in the crowd').

Now ,the second night should be more reasonable and clear away at least the first reason i've put. If it doesn't I would hold suspicions as well.

Oh, the choices... But ,from looking at evidence supplied by people and themselves, I'm going to cast my vote.

Rune's vote is rather suspicions because either they knew Wayne was going to vote one way or another, or they took advantage of the moment. Plus, there is the fact as to if and when they voted after or before Wayne. It's too shady for me, and I still have alot of confusions about these three voting plans, but I need to stake a vote now, before I spend too much time thinking as I almost did before.

After reading Kit's really helpful posts and everyone else's, (I hate jumping to conclusions, but it's just too early in the game) I am going to have to go with this, because it holds the most evidence:

++ Rune



Sincerely, with most thoughfulness,

Ka

[Kitanna]

To everyone: Don't forget to write VOTE as your title. *looks at Ka and tar* That way we avoid another problem like we need with Wayne's vote yesterday.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Ok, before you all go asuming I am some sort of fanged fuzzball, I would like to say something.

It seems that you nomather why I votet for Death I am a wolf.

This is very odd I think, why should a wolf do both?

I am very sorry I dont see these evidence of what you speek. . . Surly a wolf would not vote for a dubbel lynch this would draw atention to one. Bandwagoning is neither the ideal thing to do for a wolf. (at least not in the first day.) It would be much more safe to vote for one not to be killed.

I will just remind you that I postet at same time as Death and did not know her vote.

I yes I said that I thought less ill of Death, but I truely did not know who to vote for so I went with my first impresion.

If youre still suspesios then post them and i will try to answer when I can.

[Sleepy Ranger]

Since both my computer and internet are acting up I will vote now in case I am unable to later.

++Rune

Because he seems to be the most likely to be a wolf at the moment.

Surly a wolf would not vote for a dubbel lynch this would draw atention to one. Bandwagoning is neither the ideal thing to do for a wolf. (at least not in the first day.) It would be much more safe to vote for one not to be killed.

Did you not say you cross-posted and at that time you would have been breaking the tie? So saying that a double-lynch would draw attention to a wolf has nothing to do with this matter. It just makes you all the more suspicious in my mind to first say that you cross-posted and then say why a double-lynch wouldn't be a good wolfish tactic.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Did you not say you cross-posted and at that time you would have been breaking the tie? So saying that a double-lynch would draw attention to a wolf has nothing to do with this matter. It just makes you all the more suspicious in my mind to first say that you cross-posted and then say why a double-lynch wouldn't be a good wolfish tactic.

I was making a point about the so called evidence! Witch convinesly makes me a wolf no matter what.

[Hiriel]

Hokay. Took me a while to get on, but I should have some time now. Herm...curious things abound in Lower Tadfield. Tar is being very, very suspicious in my mind, and his vote for the KA befuddles me, but as so many people voiced suspicion of Rune, I'll look at him first.

I am very sorry I dont see these evidence of what you speek. . . Surly a wolf would not vote for a dubbel lynch this would draw atention to one. Bandwagoning is neither the ideal thing to do for a wolf. (at least not in the first day.) It would be much more safe to vote for one not to be killed.

Rune, forgive me if I'm wrong, but wolves love double lynchings when a wolf isn't headed for the noose. It kills more villagers, and the object for the wolves is to kill us all. Bandwagoning, too, is something wolves love, and if done sparingly, can keep them under the radar. Your last sentence was a little unclear to me, sorry, if you could clear that up, I'd be obliged. And as Sleepy said, it's not really relevent.

'I was making a point about the so called evidence! Witch convinesly makes me a wolf no matter what.

Rune, that's not true. It could be that you thought Wayne's vote did count, and thought to make a clear lead so as to avoid a double lynching. But since you conceed there's no way out for you...I dunno what to think.

Eek. Couldn't get as much time as I thought. Hopefully, I'll get more time to disect the rest of what's gone on, but I might just have to post a quick vote in the nick of time.

[sotty]

Wow a Rune wagon so soon! To be honest I never saw this coming I was thinking over who seemed most suspicious to me and Rune wasn't even on my list. With this evidence that is being brought up by Tar and Kitanna I feel I need to go back and have a re-read and a think. Before I do that, I want to air my suspicions for the day.

The first one is Hiriel. I mentioned yesterday that there was something about his posts that made me uneasy and today I'm still not able to quite put my finger on it. It might be purely down to the fact that he used the word blame back in post 19. He later apologizes for this saying-

Originally Posted by ”Hiriel”

Oh also: some people have brought up my usage of blame. The honest answer for why I wrote that word is that it's shorter and easier to spell than accuse. The two are basic synonyms, and I wasn't thinking about the negative connotations the former might have as opposed to the latter. I meant nothing sinister or to encourage random mob lynches by it. Sorry.

This I can accept. Being a dyslexic myself (yes a dyslexic school teacher, how ironic huh?) I often use smaller words that have the same or similar meaning rather than the word I actually mean. But when I questioned him on his big post and no vote, he says this-

Originally Posted by ”Hiriel”

Well, yeah, yeah I was. Maybe I'm just a horrid procrastinator, but I like to wait till the last minute, to see if anything at all comes up that could help inform my vote. I had no idea who to vote for when I made that lengthy post. I suspected DEATH, and Tar, and Glirdy, but I really doubted that I'd hit on a wolf the first go. I was waiting to see if anything else might turn up on the thread before I had to make my choice.

I feel that waiting until the last moment is a very wolfish thing to do. For one you get to see how everyone has voted so you can see how best to place your vote. You can judge on where would be the best place for your vote, instead of using evidence at your disposal. You can even save a fellow wolf from the noose, although that might be a little toooo oblivious but the possibility is still there. With it being the first day we all had very little to go on (expect the seer of course) and so all of our reasons to vote were full of holes so I really don't see how waiting until the last minute helps in anyway.

The second person I have even less to go on and it's Bergil. This is the part of Kitannas' theory I can believe.

Originally Posted by ”Bergil”

++Marcolie "DEATH" Laman

I don't suspect her in the least' but I must vote for someone.

He places a random vote right after Gurthang who by the way also votes for DEATH. He also claims it is a random vote in the title, a random vote that just so happens to occur right after someone else voted for the same person and make it a three way tie? Bearing in mind at the that time we did not know that a three way tie would not count and only two would be lynched. That just makes me go hmmmmm......

I just wanted to get some feed back on these ideas, if anyone else has similar thoughts. I am defiantly in no position to jump on to Rune right now but I will read and give some thought to it

P.S – for future reference I am indeed a she

[Eonwe]

The only thing i can think of against rune is the double lynching. Marcolie and Rune double posted, and were both trying to break the tie. Maroclie's actions were pure, as she was proven inncenct. We can conclude that if Rune is a wolf, than tar is probaly a wolf, because marc, glirdan and tar were tied. marc and glirdan were innocent, so rune would be saveing tar by voting marc. if you follow what im saying (sorry for being confusing). but rune isn't proved a wolf yet, and for my part, im willing to let him of on a cross posting error....for now...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

It seems that Kitanna is the one who wants me dead and what ever I do she belives I am Wolf. You decide who that incriminates the most. . .

Rune came in later and retied the votes for DEATH and Glirdan, thus sealing their fates. Now what can we gather from this. At least one wolf is hiding among those that caused a tie.

Rune~ Voted late (only about ten minutes before day was about to end)
Quote:
You have made me a bit suspisios of Glirdan and think less ill of DEATH.
Now here is a puzzle. “less suspicious of DEATH and more suspicious of Glirdan.” Now then why vote for DEATH when you could easily have prevented a double lynching.

I wish Rune had said something before I did this, but he has not. I said before I found Rune's vote from yesterday. Here are the two theories that have been stated about him.
A) He knew Wayne's vote wouldn't count and voted for DEATH to bring in a tie. A very wolfish thing to do.
B) He thought Wayne's vote would be counted and voted for DEATH to put her in the lead because then he'd look less suspicious when an innocent died. A very clever way of cover wolf prints.
Either theory makes Rune look bad and wolfish. But what also sets him off in my mind is the fact he suspected Glirdan more and yet in that same post he voted for DEATH. Taking into account possibilties A and B it still gives Rune a less than flattering image in my eyes.
Also Gurthang would have been a wise choice for Rune to attack at night. Gurthang mentioned him only once and it was to ask for reasons for his suspects. So a decision to kill Gurthang would leave no trail to Rune.Now to bring up what tar-ancalime said about Rune and his vote. At the time Rune voted DEATH had given a list of votes so far, excluding Wayne's. Now of course DEATH was not the mod, but also Wayne's vote could of course been overlooked. So assuming Rune was going off of DEATH's list then he would have seen the oppurtunity of bringing about a tie. Of course that is unlikey, but there is also the possibility of him realizing Wayne's vote would not be counted due to its format.

I am sorry if I have confused you earlyer, I will now try to make up for that!

There is no point in me, why I votet DEATH I allready told that. Let me tell you how little chance I had to know I was causing a dubbel lynch:

1. I did cross post and I did not know of the tie.
2. There was Wayens post witch none could know would not count !
3. Glirdan had a vote! It never accurd to me that a person with a chance too save him self would choose not too! (unless the cobbler)


Still I do not see my vote as a safe vote for a wolf! Some statet earlyer that a wolf would proberbly start bandwagoning, then a total anomynus vote would be more clever. This way I would stay in the shadows!

Kitana points me out becourse I had no conection to Gurthang, well that goes for like everybody! It seems like she realy wants me death.

either because she has fanges or she simply dislikes me !

[Bergil]

firstly, people have pointed out that my vote made it a 3-way tie last night. I cross-posted with Gurthang, when I typed that up Marcolie had no votes. Secondly, I suspect WayneTheGoblin because it's possible that his vote didn't count on purpose, So he could break a 3-way tie while leaving it unbroken. Draw your own conclusions on both arguments.

[sotty]

On the Rune issue and looking back at the actual times votes were casted this could all just be a misunderstanding

Wayne voted at 7.46pm
DEATH voted at 7.49pm
Rune voted at 7.49pm

The times I quote are in my timezone so most peoples will be different, but the key here is the minutes. Isn't it quite possible that they all just cross posted? If that is the case then this theory looses some weight. -

Originally Posted by ”Kitanna”

A) He knew Wayne's vote wouldn't count and voted for DEATH to bring in a tie. A very wolfish thing to do.
B) He thought Wayne's vote would be counted and voted for DEATH to put her in the lead because then he'd look less suspicious when an innocent died. A very clever way of cover wolf prints.
Either theory makes Rune look bad and wolfish. But what also sets him off in my mind is the fact he suspected Glirdan more and yet in that same post he voted for DEATH. Taking into account possibilities A and B it still gives Rune a less than flattering image in my eyes.

But what if he didn't see DEATHs or Waynes vote? Then none of the above apply.(accept the statement about Glirdan)

Originally Posted by ”Tar-ancalime”

But voting for the person who's already got a majority, when there are still 4 voters presumably to come and "cover his tracks," is a "safe" move, an "unobtrusive" move, one which could point either to a wolf hiding in the crowd, or to an unsure villager not wanting to cast any new suspicions.

This point on the other hand by Tar is quite true. Rune could have easily voted DEATH and viewed it as a safe vote. Personally I doubt I will be voting Rune based purely on that fact, I believe there are others more worthy of my suspicions and votes today. Do not read this post wrong, I am not claiming Rune to be innocent at all. I am just suggesting that most of the evidence against him could all just be circumstantial. Rune is still on my watch list after the "safe" vote but I cannot find any other evidence to use against him.

Bergil defended himself, all be it briefly and I have still yet to hear from Hiriel and my vote will probably end up on him

[wilwarin538]

Sorry for my absence. I was very busy today. I admit my vote is somewhat bandwagoning, but I rather that then not voting at all.

++Rune

if you are innocent, no hard feelings I hope.

[Bergil]

++WayneTheGoblin

before I forget. and remember, think before you vote. it'is a sad day for independance in Lower Taadfield, with all this bandwaggoning. Our dead population would not approve. I've asked them using my ouija board.

edit: I didn't really ask, that was an in-caracter comment.

[Kitanna]

In an amazing turn of events I made it on before day ended.

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

It seems that Kitanna is the one who wants me dead and what ever I do she belives I am Wolf. You decide who that incriminates the most. . .

I realize I am putting everything on the line if Rune turns out to be innocent, but I feel so confident toward his wolfishness that I'm going to do it and fight and defend my standpoint. If for some reason he is innocent I know the entire village will look to me. But I feel so certain he is a wolf I am willing to risk it.

[Hiriel]

Herm..Can't get on for any length of time, so, appologies. But I don't want to miss another vote again. It seems as though Rune has his own wagon now. I suspect him, but not enough to vote for him, and I am started to get a little suspicious of Kitana's attacks on him. That could just be Rune's frantic efforts to blame her and save himself, but I dunno. I'll be very interested to see what happens tonight and who Rune turns out to be, and by then I should have some good theories about who has a hairy complex. If Rune indeed is a wolf, it'll be a good justification of my gut paranoia, but also detramental to me, because I didn't vote the first day and didn't vote for a wolf the next. But I'm just not sure enough, and I'd rather not bandwagon. So, because I'm not sure enough about Rune, my vote goes to

++ Tar Ancalime

On account of his sudden, odd vote for KA, and my general suspecion carried over from Day I.

"P.S – for future reference I am indeed a she

So am I.

[sotty]

Originally Posted by ”Kitanna”

I realize I am putting everything on the line if Rune turns out to be innocent, but I feel so confident toward his wolfishness that I'm going to do it and fight and defend my standpoint. If for some reason he is innocent I know the entire village will look to me. But I feel so certain he is a wolf I am willing to risk it.

I myself will be in the same boat if Rune turns out to be a wolf after I made some points against your theory Kitanna. If your are so certain, then so be it, sometimes you just have gut feelings towards people that you just cannot shake and if there is any evidence towards that fact then the feeling just gets stronger. On that note I will

++ Hiriel

For waiting so long to vote that she missed the deadline.

[Eonwe]

well, allots happened. i need to read through, and draw some conclutions. i strongly discourage teh Rune Bandwagon. Kitanna, i don't think you really have much of a case. i know i've caused a double lynching by cross posting, and its pretty obvious that rune cross posted. so...taht's all for now, be back later with something of more value.

votes stand:

THE Ka: 1
Rune: 4
Wayne:1
Hiriel: 1
Tar: 1

so we have four left, if i count a-right.

ps. hiriel, all this time i thought you were a guy! oops, sorry.

[Holbytlass]

I didn't take into account timing of votes ( at myself), as far as the votes it looks better for Rune. I shall vote

++Sleepy Ranger

[Eonwe]

my goodness, there just isn't much to go on. I don't have strong feelings on any of our candidates for the noose. Ill go with
++KITANNA
because i don't like the way she is gunning for Rune. Like i said, i don't think there is much of a case left.

I don't like the bandwagon that formed for Rune. It was entirely unnecessary to kill him with four votes. I'll put the first three taht voted for him on my high suspect list. because i think that that is a safe place to hide your wolfish vote. not the end, taht would be too much bandwagoning and too suspicious for a wolf to try, i think.

grrr. i don't know why i play werewolf, its to confusing and conveluted...just kidding, im guess im a complusive werewolfer.

ps. thanks rune

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

You have to put the ++name in a sepperate line Eonwe. If you want it to count that is.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Kitanna
just becouse I can ! ! !

Well not only am I dead, I expect that you al will do a happy dance on my remainings just to mock me! Where after you burn me too a tine crisp and scatter me across town!