**The Return of the King Extended Edition**

[Nurumaiel]

Overall, I enjoyed it very much. I was up late into the night watching it, and at the end I had a wonderfully satisfied feeling. However, I did have some disappointments. I'll mention only the scenes that had the greatest impact, so to speak, on me.

The greatest disappointment was the Voice of Saruman scene. The whole family was thrilled when we saw it was going to be in... the actors were so brilliant... they were delivering their lines beautifully, and it was if I were sitting within the pages of the battered old book I heard so long ago. But I'd heard rumours and when Grima pulled the knife I felt my heart sinking. I didn't even really care to watch what happened after that. I was quite speechless... I really feel that the scene was spoiled by the deaths of Saruman and Grima. I was completely shocked, too, that Christopher Lee had allowed them to get away with it. I was very glum about that. For one thing, it brings vividly back to mind that the Scouring is not included, and for a second, I really did not think it was well-done. I don't enjoy watching the deaths, and I think that they were absolutely awful, but as long as it was the Voice of Saruman, and not the Death, I loved it.

While the drinking contest between Legolas and Gimli wasn't from the book, it was great fun, and the little hobbit of the family thought Gimli immensely funny. My only disappointment was that Gimli didn't win.

The scene where Merry offers his allegience to Theoden was short, but very wonderful. He spoke just like a hobbit, without any fancy and flowerly lines, but his honesty and loyalty were absolutely grand. In just this brief little scene I recalled why Merry has been my favourite character since childhood.

Aside from the Grey Havens, the closest I came to weeping in this film was in the added scene of Denethor and Faramir. When Denethor stood, and his eyes filled with love and he said: "My son," I caught my breath in awe and hope... it was heartbreaking to see the look on Faramir's face when he realised that Denethor was not speaking to him. Brilliant, if sorrowful, scene.

However, to return to a disappointment, I did not particularly enjoy the confrontation between Gandalf and the Witchking. It bothered me that Gandalf was thrown from his horse and left in such a position of helplessness. It added to the wonderful feeling of hope that came when the Riders of Rohan arrived, but it bothered me nevertheless. I recall when first hearing the story as a child I was frightened for Gandalf. It seemed as though there were no hope for him, and that he would surely be destroyed by that awful Witchking. And yet I saw him in mind's eye, tall upon his steed, making a courageous stand despite a doom that looked him in the face... brave and noble, and full of kingly majesty. It was rather difficult to have this childhood vision shattered by the sight of Gandalf lying helplessly and almost weakly upon the ground. I was the reconciled to this, however, because earlier on Gandalf was that Gandalf I loved best, when he rode out, shining, to the aid of Faramir and his men. But the worst disappointment of the Witchking scene was when I realised that the cock would not crow. Of all parts in the book, that was what made my heart soar highest... when the cock crowed, heralding hope.

In part I agree with HCIsland about Gothmog, and I thought it was rather silly to show Gothmog's death, but I can't deny that whether there was a silence or not, everyone in the room felt like cheering. I would have preferred it most if he had not even been in the film... the only one who beats him in horridness, for me at least, is the Mouth of Sauron.

Oooh... the Mouth of Sauron. He was a truly annoying fellow. I've always detested him, ever since I knew of him. I suppose he's the Mouth of Sauron, so he won't do much besides talk, but I've always thought he talked a little too much. As for his unexpected end, I echo what dancing spawn of ungoliant said. Aragorn's actions were not kingly and noble. It was not pleasant to think that one of the first things he did when he placed at the head of his men, alongside the other leaders such as Eomer and Gandalf, was to cut off an enemy's head with not warning of any kind... it was even more disappointing that he seemed to lose his temper when the insults were directed towards him, rather than taking that swipe when Frodo and Gandalf were the targets of ill words. I do feel twinges of anger when I think of it, yet I'm not outraged as I should be, for I've always thought very highly of the nobility of Tolkien's characters. In all honesty, my thoughts were not: "Ah, Aragorn, you've ruined yourself!" when it happened, but rather: "Well, good! He was a detestable fellow anyway."

I've gotten slightly ahead of myself, and before I run along I want to go back and mention Faramir and Eowyn in the Houses of Healing. I thought it was wonderful. Two wonderfully happy people... but... why was it so awfully short? I've always thought that Faramir and Eowyn had some of the best lines in the book. I knew I wouldn't be able to see the beautiful moment where, atop the wall, their hair, black and gold, was mingled in the wind, because Faramir didn't have dark hair, but I had hoped for some of the gorgeous and breath-taking lines from the books. Nevertheless, I'm happy that we had some scene, however small, for them.

No matter how much I was disappointed, I can't feel any resentment after watching this movie. The Grey Havens reconciles me to absolutely everything... and almost wholly because of Sam. Bringing that to mind, I can say honestly that this was a brilliant movie... absolutely brilliant. I'll be watching it for years and years to come. I feel not even a twinge of sorrow that it's all over, and that no more films will be coming out, because, why, when I sit and begin to watch these films, it's starting all over again, just like it did years ago, and I've got all three of them to look forward to still.

[Boromir88]

I still don't know why people get upset about the death of Saruman, ah well, no one has to like the reasons for why they did what they did.

I will say Nurumaiel, I'll have to find the article again, but Chris Lee was quite angered about being pushed back to ROTK EE, he thought the scene belonged to TTT. (Which it did, but I guess PJ wanted to end on a high battle note).

[Gurthang]

I just watched it for the first time today! *jumps up and down with glee*

I agree entirely, Boromir. The scene with Saruman on Orthanc really cleared up a lot of loose ends to the plot. It should have been in TTT. At the least PJ could have put it into the first release of ROTK. Sadly, it was not, but I thought it was very good scene.

As for Saruman's death. It really wasn't that much different from the book. Only in a different place. Grima jumps on Saruman, and stabs him with a dagger. Grima gets shot with an arrow and also dies. That's not too much different, and since the Scouring of the Shire was not in the movies at all, they couldn't have done it there anyway.

But one thing that I really didn't like was the Witch-king breaking Gandalf's staff. I was just like .

[Encaitare]

where does the other penny go?

Here are my thoughts on the EE, in no particular order, now that I finally gave in to temptation and watched it.

Although I dreaded the Saruman and Grima death scene, I actually enjoyed it. I think I would have preferred it if they'd been on the balcony, but that's my only gripe. Christopher Lee's acting was superb; I think he really nailed the Voice.

The king crowned with flowers, nice little addition.

The Denethor scenes... I'm mixed. I didn't care for him stumbling about and almost falling over his throne, but I did like his exchange with Faramir regarding the Ring. I did love some of his added lines, though, especially this one, so great I had to write it down: "Why do the fools fly? Better to die sooner than late... for die we must."

Gandalf's Gondorian 101 was a nice inclusion, giving some good background. Kudos to Ian McKellen for once more doing some exposition without making it awkward.

Eomer finding Eowyn on the battlefield was short but perfect. It makes me wonder if perhaps he knew a little more than everyone else, and if his remark about how war was for men was made with a bit more purpose, as though he was afraid she might try something. Mere speculation, of course.

One thing I really enjoyed was another very small point: when Eowyn and Theoden are fighting near each other, and Eowyn is really giving it her all. Theoden looks over at her in surprise and respect, no doubt wondering who this impassioned young soldier is.

The Mouth of Sauron. Hmm. I thought that he was almost comical in a sense, because where he was surely meant to be leering, he appeared to be offering a toothy, winning smile. His voice... I don't know, it just didn't seem right to me. Not hissy like I imagined it would be. I did love his armor, though, and also that of his horse. I want a helm like his. So, he was cool, but he wasn't "my" Mouth of Sauron.

The Houses of Healing -- sweet, but so short! I'm not sure I liked the song that was sung when Aragorn was taking care of Eowyn, but a couple more viewings will probably warm me up to it.

Gandalf vs. Witch King: a little bit disappointing, since Gandalf definitely got owned.

I liked Aragorn finally using the Palantir, but the title of the scene is "Aragorn Masters the Palantir." It seems like Sauron, in the end, won out by showing Aragorn a vision of the failing Arwen.

The Paths of the Dead were... interesting. I got postively giddy upon hearing Malbeth's prophecy, huzzah! Gimli blowing away the ghosts was funny, but perhaps should have been cut shorter. The cascade of skulls made absolutely no sense to me at first, and I was saying to myself, "What the fork... PJ, you've gone off the deep end." Then Aragorn and Friends emerged from the mountain, coming to the river. It seemed to me that perhaps the Dead were guiding them out, since the ships were fast approaching. Whether that's the intent or not is beyond me, but I think I'll stick with that idea to justify the sudden skull avalanche.

And last but certainly not least, Gothmog. We get to see him walk about a bit in the EE, and he's got this gimpy leg which makes me laugh. Now I can't stop thinking of him as Gimpy Gothmog, which I'm sure is the name the other orcs call him behind his back. He really had a miserable time of it, though. First he got beaten by Eowyn, then hacked apart by Gimli and Aragorn. You know, I was really hoping Eowyn would kill him, just because Aragorn is very sword-happy, as seen with the MoS and such. A little variety would have been nice there.

Despite my criticism I really did love it... but as noted earlier, by Essex, I believe, I don't know where the time went. The forty-something minutes were so spread out, I guess, that it didn't excite me like the other two EEs. Yet it was an amazing film, and I think that much of my criticism will vanish when I watch it a few more times.

[Boromir88]

Encaitare has me thinking of Gothmog. There are times when PJ does some trully wonderful stuff, and I think stands out as a director. For instance:

Eomer finding Eowyn, just the look on Karl Urban's face.

The interactions between Denethor, Boromir, and Faramir. Also, between Pippin/Gandalf, Faramir/Pippin, Boromir/Faramir...etc.

Sam's character in ROTK.

For a personal favorite, I love the connection PJ draws to Isildur and Frodo:


Look at the simularity in their faces. It's moments like this when I sit back, and say wow PJ, that was great.

Then there are just times when PJ sinks back to his C rated gore movie crap...

The meaningless beheading of MoS, and mutilation of Gothmog. There is absolutely no point in these two sequences except to add blood and gore.

[Encaitare]

Heh... glad you enjoyed my Gothmog comments, Boromir. Since he is on my mind as well, I found a quote of yours re. Gothmog which made me laugh... check my sig.

The pictures you posted reminded me of a point I forgot to make in my last post. when Gollum is strangling Frodo, Frodo says, "But you swore! You swore on the precious!" I noticed that when Frodo says "Precious," it sounds extremely Gollum-esque. That may just be because he can't breathe, but it was creepy to me all the same.

[Boromir88]

I noticed your sig after I posted. Thanks, I'm flattered .

Now, you've reminded me of something else, lol . Bilbo's little Gollumish speak in FOTR "It's mine, I found it, it came to me!" "My precious!" I love it.

[Gilthalion]

I rarely have opportunity to post these days, much less to read lengthy threads such as this, but I thought it worth reading and so I hope what I have to mention will be worth posting.

The VOICE OF SARUMAN scene sets up some of the character conflict that we see later in the film.

Gandalf's uncertainty and fear that he has sent Frodo to his doom makes better sense as a spirit of thought from Saruman. This also gives Aragorn more of an opportunity to take leadership.

Theoden's lack of faith in himself is also made keener by the spell of Saruman's voice.

This is a subtle effect that Gandalf warns of in the book, but is rather difficult to show in a movie. The EE of ROTK accomplishes this, though this kind of subtlety seems to have largely gone unnoticed. Kudos to Peter, Fran, and Phillipa for this effort.

[Nurumaiel]

As far as Saruman's death goes, while it slightly bothers me that his death was at the wrong time and place (aside from Orthanc, it was his back, too) merely because it wasn't 'bookish,' that is very nitpicky, and my main disgust is for what takes place after the stabbing. Firstly, the fact that Legolas shoots Grima is very bothersome. He didn't wait for any kind of consent from Gandalf, but notched his arrow and did what was, in my mind, completely not right. Secondly, Saruman's fall onto the spike was sickening, and completely unnecessary. It was necessary for him to be killed, certainly, but was it necessary for him to fall in such a way and then be lowered slowly into the water? Perhaps, as Boromir88 mentioned of the Mouth of Sauron's and Gothmog's deaths, it was merely to add more blood and gore?

By the way, Boromir88, I completely agree with your comment about Karl Urban's acting. Absolutely heart-rending. And speaking of good acting, I was discussing with some family members the new Denethor/Faramir scene, and I honestly think some of the best acting in all three films was in that scene. There can be no doubt cast that Denethor is really and truly going mad, but David Wenham's acting is what caught my attention most. When Denethor has his illusion of Boromir, the expression on Faramir's face is very subtly changed to one of a hope that he dares not let exist. Thank goodness, no mad rushing into his father's arms! But, rather, just a faint expression of disbelief, and a hope that he can hope and then... 'Leave me,' and it is gone. Aside from sending a heat to my eyes, it sent thrills through me.

[Boromir88]

Perhaps, as Boromir88 mentioned of the Mouth of Sauron's and Gothmog's deaths, it was merely to add more blood and gore?

See my post #18 for the reasons the Jackson team did it that way. Those are just the reasons behind why they had Saruman fall to a spikey death.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nurumaiel

It was necessary for him to be killed, certainly, but was it necessary for him to fall in such a way and then be lowered slowly into the water?

I believe the lowering of Saruman into the water was supposed to support Treebeard's line of "The filth of Saruman is washing away." Still it was a terrible way for him to go.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

As to Legolas shooting Grima and Saruman's death by Grima, this may be an example of PJ's and friends efforts (at times somewhat clumsy, at others
more successful) of conflating characters and events from the book into the
movies. Legolas is perhaps a nod to Grima's being shot by hobbits after killing
Saruman (although they should have had Gandalf trying to stop Legolas to
make it more "true" to the book, as Frodo regretted the killing of Grima).
Similarly, perhaps their having Gandalf assault Denethor was an effort to
acknowledge Beregond's battling Denethor's servants to save Faramir?

[obloquy]

Gandalf did not fear the Witch-King. It's silly that he did in the movies, but it bypasses some lore that they could not have included and thus, I guess, is understandable.

I really liked the Mouth of Sauron, too. Pretty wicked. I didn't much care for his inconsequential dispatching, however.

[Essex]

as an aside, did anyone hear gimli's voice change back to John rhys davies's real more 'posher' accent when he says 'I guess that concludes negotiations'. very strange.

I've mentioned this earlier, but for me the Mouth of Sauron was superb. And to add to this, in the film this was not a parley. The MoS did not come to offer the men of the West a deal, he came to scoff at their apparent weakness. So Aragorn was dispatching an enemy and not in conflict with any codes of war.

Having Aragorn cut off the MoS's head was used in the EE to give a reason for Sauron's eye to be moved away from the plains of Gorgoroth and Frodo and Sam.

[obloquy]

I don't disagree with Aragorn's action, I just think it made the Mouth come across as all talk. HARHARHAR

It undermines the badassitude of the rest of the scene leading up to it.

[The Saucepan Man]

Originally Posted by obloquy

It undermines the badassitude of the rest of the scene leading up to it.

Spot on! I knew that there was something about Aragorn's decapitation of the Mouth of Sauron that irked me, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. But you have pinpointed it precisely there. What is the point of building up this marvellously loathsome character and have him mercilessly gloat and taunt Aragorn et al, only to have him despatched by Aragorn without a by or a leave? It does rather undermine the whole point of his characterisation (which I thought was great). It would have been much more powerful to have the Mouth of Sauron ride off leaving them despondent. There are numerous other points at which Sauron's eye could have been diverted (as, for example, in the cinema release).

[Elianna]

Originally Posted by Iaurhirwen

The quote goes as follows:Me mahara tonu taatou nga Uri-aapakura noo tuaanuku nei, noo te waaotuu te tu kekehua ana o ngaa Eldarin kua hohouu mai i te Uru-moana.
… Any ideas as to the meaning?

I tried to figureitout on my own, had no success, and looked elsewhere. So, lookie what I found at theonering.net:

Ataahua writes: Here is a copy of the Maori text in the end-credits of ROTK, with a translation provided by someone who is fluent in the Maori language. He said it was difficult to translate as the passage included metaphors which had to be interpreted, but once he knew it had to do with Tolkien’s Middle-earth the translation came easily:
Me mahara tonu taatou nga Uri-aapakura noo tuaanuku nei, noo te waaotuu te tu kekehua ana o ngaa Eldarin kua hohouu mai i te Uru-moana.

“Let us dedicate our memories to the spirits of the Eldar who came to us from the Ocean that lies to the West.”

My thoughts on all the Extended-ness will come later.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by obloquy

Gandalf did not fear the Witch-King. It's silly that he did in the movies, but it bypasses some lore that they could not have included and thus, I guess, is understandable.
.

I think that I could have accepted the staff breaking/prone wizard more easily if Gandalf would have simply 'smiled' just before the horns started blowing. It would have been like saying to the WK that while you're up here, the tides of battle are about to turn.

[Numenorean]

At last I finally watched the RoTK EE as part of a back-to-back trilogy marathon, then watched it again this morning. Lots of really good comments and thoughts on this thread both for and against, firstly Saruman:
Kransha

Saruman's voice was perfectly melodious and sinister

I agree, the way he just rolled into the 'Théoden King...' speech was effortlessly rich and undulating, oozing with a resonant vocal quality that only someone as talented (and familiar with the text) as Christopher Lee could properly convey. Great addition to the film that really should've made the cinema edit.
I loved the short but excellent added scenes that touched upon the deeper histories and lore of Tolkiens legends, the crossroads with the Kings head was very poignant, and as ElanorGamgee has already pointed out

Gandalf’s brief history lesson concerning Númenor, including allusions to the fall of the Númenórians and their culture of death as described in The Silmarillion.

was also vocally and visually marvellous.
The extra sequences at Pelennor Fields were great as far as they went. Some measure of justice was done to Gimlis axe-wielding and fighting techniques, I found the brief shots of him at Pelennor were greatly improved from the slapdash and comedic way he fought in TTT. Éowyn and Merrys extra scenes were fantastic, the hardihood of Hobbits and Women - particuarly in light of Éomers derogatory comments at Dunharrow - was much needed, and Éowyn/Dernhelms bravery and skill on the field was a sight to behold!
The aftermath of the battle was far more grimly realistic, I thought that Pip searching till dusk for Merry was highly emotive, and as Encaitare said

Éomer finding Éowyn on the battlefield was short but perfect

On first viewing I found the whole Aragorn/Sauron palantir confrontation a bit puzzling and unsettling - especially with the evenstar shattering like that. On second viewing it made a bit more speculative sense in that Aragorn seemingly goads Sauron with Narsil/Andúril, thus Sauron in turn taunts Aragorn into uncertainty with images of mortality (that old Númenorean weakness!) and how it will one day claim even Arwen, leastways thats how I tried to fathom it.
The Mouth of Sauron was a fiendishly worthy addition, his loathsome mocking of Gandalf with the line..."Old Greybeard..." was brilliantly foul. The MoS came over as being so arrogant and abhorrently unctuous, yet desperate as he tried to discern if Gandalf had an ace up his sleeve. This was creepily revealed by the way in which he zeroed in on anything the Hobbits said immediately after he tossed them Frodos mithril shirt. His sudden decapitation at the hand of Aragorn was unexpected, and within the subtle context of the book it would indeed have been dishonourable, yet within the context of the film I thought it was acceptable - if somewhat fell, Gandalf himself says moments before that "We do not come treat with Sauron..." Therefore I agree with what Essex has already stated,

Aragorn was dispatching an enemy and not in conflict with any codes of war

Overall the film (and the previous two) is massively entertaining and visually stunning, most of the shots of the famous Middle Earthian landmarks leapt straight from the pages and were magnificent to behold. The Grey Havens were especially beautiful and melancholic, exactly how I imagined them to look and feel.
Given the massive scale of the trilogy it could have been a total and utter disaster, PJ had to walk a fine and unforgiving line that not many others would have even attempted, and love of the project is evident in everyone who worked on it. Sure it would have been so great to have seen Bombadil, The Wight, Glorfindel, Erkenbrand, Imrahil, Halbarad, Elronds sons and the others who did not make the cut, and in a perfect world we would all be eagerly awaiting the release of an epic series of Silmarillion movies .
As it is I am mightily impressed by the ambition, scope and quality of the extended edition trilogy, and am thankful we have got what we have.

[Essex]

Mr 'Defend the Movies till I die' makes a U turn at last......

I was dissapointed in a few things from the EE:

No end to the Fellowship's later years as documented in the Tale of the Years. I was hoping something would turn up as the director's commentaries in the fotr EE say that Galadriel's voiceover would 'bookend' the movies. I do note, however, on the first extra DVD some quick shots of legolas and gimli after the War of the Ring, and at least they filmed SOME shots like this. 10th or 20th anniversarry edition perhaps? you never know..................

No scene with Pippin bringing in Merry to Minas Tirith and Gandalf's line about the hobbit should have been brought into the city with great honour. And eowyn's line to eomer that he should make merry a knight of the riddermark. These scenes always bring a tear to my eye. He could have least got the 'Are you going to bury me?' line in! Ah well........

[Durelin]

One quick word on the Mouth of Sauron:

He was the first thing to creep me out in those films, so he was absolutely perfect in my mind. Maybe I'm just not a perfectionist when it comes to movies, but...

Also, the House of Healings scene between Faramir and Eowyn was almost exactly as I imagined it, though it was quite quite short...

And I think we can all agree that the movie wasn't anywhere near long enough...

[The Only Real Estel]

Like Durelin said, I found The Mouth of Sauron to be pretty creepy, I'm just glad PJ didn't go with his 'horizontal mouth' idea. Also, I find it a little strange that (in the documentary) when they are explaining the design behind his helmet, Daniel Falcnor states that "the book never says anything about whether you could see his eyes or not". I think when it says "Araogrn said naught in answer, but he took the other's eye and held it...", it's pretty darn clear. Still, I thought the helmet was cool, so I'm not complaining . I am disappointed that Jackson had Aragorn behead the Mouth, however. It served little purpose other than to show Aragorn doesn't like to be made fun of. There is an element of truth (for once) in what the Mouth says in the books: "I am a herald and ambassador and may not be assailed!", though it seems that Jackson decided it'd be okay for Aragorn to break that law just this once.

[Essex]

Estel,

as I mentioned earlier, in my opinion the MoS in the Movie did not come to Parley. He came to scoff and scorn. He did not offer the West a Treaty. Therefore Aragorn was not breaking any code of War by killing the MoS.

[Lathriel]

Luckily we all seem to agree on this... The houses of healing was too short. Especially for Faramir and Eowyn. (Where was the kiss?????)
I would have loved to see more of that.

I really liked the Palantir scene though because it explained the dream Aragorn had at Dunharrow.

I was really glad there were more moments with sam and Frodo. Such as the crossroads. Sam seeing the star in the sky while in Mordor. (A tiny favourite part of mine in the book) Also I like the orc army because I was waiting for it to happen in the theatrical and I was so dissapointed when it wasn't in the movie.

Also Karl Urban's acting was superb when he saw Eowyn. He showed so much grief that my eyes grew watery.

Although we critisize PJ a lot I have a great respect for him. I don't think anybody else could have done it or was crazy enough to do it. So I simply admire him for his courage of making this trilogy.

All in all I love the EE but I think there should have been less extra battle scenes and more of those scenes which were about character development. More scenes such as the one between Pippin and Faramir.

[Kitanna]

I just thought of this recently (and I knew this scene wouldn't be in) but I was still so sad when there was no Bill the Pony reunion.

[Enorëiel]

Wow - I had totally forgotten about that Kitanna! And now that you mention it... I really missed that scene too.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

I just thought of this recently (and I knew this scene wouldn't be in) but I was still so sad when there was no Bill the Pony reunion.

Not surprised as Jackson et al talk about wanting to have Bill killed by the Watcher at the Hollin Gate in FOTR EE, but that they had to film Bill leaving the area due to studio complaints (or something).

[Kitanna]

GASP! He wanted to kill Bill the Pony!? I'm shocked and horrified. And want to say many horrible things after PJ for such an evil thought, but I shall not for I will regret it later.

[Lathriel]

Same as Kitanna

GASP!!!!!
I love Bill the pony, if he was killed... I dare not say any more!!!
In truth I hope that it is a rumor because I was also looking for the reunion between Frodo and Bill and I was sad to see it wasn't there.

However, just maybe I'll forgive PJ

[alatar]

Lathriel and Kitanna,

Note that I've not heard anything regarding Bill's final demise or resting place; however, if you listen to the Directors' Commentary on FOTR EE DVD, you will hear that PJ et al wanted to do poor Bill in. At first I thought that they were joking, but as they droned on about it for a few minutes, I realized that they would have 'killed Bill' if not restrained.

One of my complaints regarding PJ is that in the ROTK EE he decided to add non-Book stuff (like the infamous drinking scene) yet couldn't show Sam reuniting with Bill - weren't the EE versions supposed to be for Tolkien fans like us?

If Sam could cry over releasing Bill, was the pony not then important enough for a 30 second nod in ROTK EE?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

When the Black Gate opened, all we could see was the Mouth of Sauron riding out, yes? But then, seconds later, it opens again and this absolutely gargantuan army comes pouring out. Where were they hiding?

I pretty much agree with what others have said...Christopher Lee is a perfect Saruman, he is so gifted at capturing that element of horror and evil and has a perfect, resonant voice. I'm disappointed that they didn't include the Scouring of the Shire, but in fact, in the books it feels like the story is over but it isn't. For the purpose of a film, I can see why they chose to end the story in a more logical , straightforward way.

Denethor could have been so much better. In the books he is mad, but still a sympathetic character.

Loved the Mouth of Sauron...his mouth was so creepy and reptilian.

Loved the drinking scene with Legolas and Gimli, but I am annoyed that the poor Dwarf keeps getting used for comic relief. It would have been fun to see Legolas a bit ruffled.

And yes....poor Bill the Pony. They should have given him and Sam a five-second reunion. The horse was robbed, I tell ya!

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Eomer of the Rohirrim

When the Black Gate opened, all we could see was the Mouth of Sauron riding out, yes? But then, seconds later, it opens again and this absolutely gargantuan army comes pouring out. Where were they hiding?

The more important question in my mind is how come in TTT it takes two trolls to open the gate, but in ROTK it opens by itself? Is Sauron using the Dark side of the Force to open it from across Mordor?
Speaking of the Force you can see Gandalf using the Force on Aragorn. That part where you hear the Eye going "Aragorn..." the camera cuts to Gandalf for a second and you can see him wave his hand like he's using the Force.

[Tuor of Gondolin]

Ooh! Kill Bill II, too (whatever).

Hmm. Let's see. If PJ likes horses LOTR fans could have put in a call to
Michael Corleone to have Luca Brasi have a chat with PJ. Hey, PJ ain't no bandleader.

I've only put on the movie and cast commentary, so far, to ROTK EE, but this
is rather typical of PJ and friends, on the one hand good special effects and
casting, on the other a number of gratuitous, and frequently pointless,
changes to LOTR. Arg!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Maybe the Trolls opening the Gate in RotK were wearing Rings of Power, and were thus invisible.

Maybe the army were all on an exceedingly large platform which ascended after the Mouth had went through.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Maybe tiny weasels bribed gandalf to dance like a ballerina in the halls of Minas Tirith.
Maybe.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Do you thereby imply Samwise that the audience was not supposed to twist their imaginations in such ways, and that this was actually a mistake from the filmmakers?

[Assasin]

Has anyone looked at the commentary in the extras? It's hilarious! I laughed so hard! Dominic and Billy are especially funny.

[SamwiseGamgee]

Personally, I think it was a 'deliberate mistake'. How so? Certain members of the crew and film making staff had no idea about this occurring, but unfortunately there was a large representation from the SDWS (Sympathisers with Dancing Weasels Society) on the team. They were probably paid off by head honchos in the SWDS to doctor their film.
Maybe.