TIG CXVII: DEAD Thread: By the Waters of Tarn Aeluin

[Huinesoron]

Couple of questions for CobblMod55. Feel free not to answer/to answer in Admin if it's more appropriate:

1) If the Seer dies toNight, do they still get their dream result?

2) If a wolf is choosing the information we learn, will they get the full thing or a class of info? Eg, "a Gifted was voted for" vs "whether any Gifted were voted for"?

hS

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

If the wolves see the writing on the wall and join the Sally wagon, do we want to vote for someone else? I mean, Sally's the one we actually KNOW is a wolf, so maybe it's best to stick with that.

I think if it's a landslide for Sally, we could probably vote for Soriman, to let the village know we suspect him. Up to you, though - I'm comfortable letting you cast the only vote, so we don't muddy the waters!

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Hmm, Soriman wants to see what Lommy has to say, does he? Does that mean Lommy is a packmate, or that Lommy's the last hope of the wolves to get a bandwagon going another direction?

I think that might be more of a "Lommy is considering the case and I'm not confident in my own ability to figure it out". I think my first game I ceded my decision-making to Sally as a known innocent, only for her to guide me into protecting an evil Boro. It's the sort of thing first-time players do.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

1) If the Seer dies toNight, do they still get their dream result?

If they are Night-killed, yes, like they would still get the dream in a normal game, just unable to post in the GT to state it. If they are lynched, they will join the DT at Nightfall and therefore not get their dream toNight as they are already dead.

Originally Posted by Hui

2) If a wolf is choosing the information we learn, will they get the full thing or a class of info? Eg, "a Gifted was voted for" vs "whether any Gifted were voted for"?

They will get statements of the type you have seen before. They will merely choose which statement you guys get to see.

[Loslote]

We've got the four votes - Sally, welcome to the Dead Thread!

[Huinesoron]

Thanks G55.

Originally Posted by Loslote

I think if it's a landslide for Sally, we could probably vote for Soriman, to let the village know we suspect him. Up to you, though - I'm comfortable letting you cast the only vote, so we don't muddy the waters!

As just cross-posted, I'm less convinced about Soriman. I think Pitch is almost definitely a wolf... but I don't want them thinking we actually know something when we don't!

Originally Posted by Sally

Good job, guys. We're doomed. *slow clap*

Poor doomed SalWolf. The funny part is that our Ghost wasn't even around to reveal her falsehood, and she still got done in...!

hS

[Huinesoron]

Lottie, what do you think to voting Sally to confirm that we're on the same page? It would also be consistent with yesterDay, which makes it look like we knew all along.

We have to catch a wolf every Day to avoid an instant loss, right? So I guess we'll be sending a Ghost toMorrow, and don't want them to have to deal with "the Dead said X is a wolf in their vote!".

hS

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pitch

If you were the real seer, I'm sorry (but I don't think so)

[Face-palm] Pitch you were her biggest advocate a few minutes ago.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

... which makes it look like we knew all along.

You know, this is what I absolutely love about an empowered Dead Thread.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

You know, this is what I absolutely love about an empowered Dead Thread.

You don't know how close I am to taking your advice and voting Brinn. Well, you probably do actually.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

You don't know how close I am to taking your advice and voting Brinn. Well, you probably do actually.

hS

Would you like us to fake-vote Brinn in the narration? Because that is something I can totally make happen.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Would you like us to fake-vote Brinn in the narration? Because that is something I can totally make happen.

I wouldn't be averse to a 'Brinn... er, Sally!', assuming we actually vote for her. If we go somewhere else it's probably best to avoid the confusion.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Okay, in the absence of argument from Lottie, to avoid any last-minute tech hitches, and to make it nice, neat, and unanimous...

++ Br... er, ++SALLY

One last ride for the old CobblGang.

("Last" - as if!)

hS

[Huinesoron]

And hi, Sally, welcome to the Dead Thread. Feel free to tell us who your pack are - we definitely won't take advantage of it. You can even tell us in Tolkien quotes if you like!

And Form - welcome back! Have fun? I remain deeply amused that you didn't even need to use our firm knowledge that Sally couldn't be the Seer - they figured it out without us!

hS

[Formendacil]

Oh thank goodness I'm back!

Got a whole lot of thread to read. Let me tell you: being a Ghost really is ghastly!

[Galadriel55]

I shall not return to the Dark Lord empty-handed! I shall not return before completing my mission! I cannot go back to him as a naked phantom, devoid of flesh and earthly power! Even if I beg forgiveness and plead my usefulness in killing Beren, he will not have mercy on me. I shall stay! Stay and complete the labour assigned to me by Sauron! - shrieked sally as her fea left her hroa.

The thunder continued to rumble. In its fading booms, the houseless spirits thought they could discern the words: They’re taking the hobbits to Isengard! Then they realized that the weather was hijacked by CaptainObvious!Legolas, who, instead of flying over mountains to fetch the sun, has messed up and fetched some thunderbolts instead. They were going to have to wait a few hours to find out what message of truth the trees and the grass and the water and the skies had to offer them.

The Living
Boro
Kath
Legate
Lommy
Morsul
Pitch
Soriman

The Dead
Gorlim (NPC/Ghost)
Galadriel55 (Night 1)
BlindGuardian (Night 1)
Greenie (Day 1 - Ordo)
Formendacil (Night 2 - Ordo)
Hui (Day 2 - Ordo)
Loslote (Night 3 - Ranger)
Sally (Day 3 - Wolf)

Night 4 begins.


Infodrop will be sent to Sally within about 30 minutes - that has been our time generally the first two times around. Your decision is due 6h after the DL.

Everyone on the thread, you may vote on sending another Ghost for toMorrow. Sally, for what it's worth, that includes you.

Dead wolves cannot communicate with Living wolves.

What else haven't I said yet that I should be saying? You will tell me what rules I've missed in this post.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

Oh thank goodness I'm back!

Got a whole lot of thread to read. Let me tell you: being a Ghost really is ghastly!

Ah, yes! Thoughts on Ghost. Anything that should be modified before the next haunting?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

... but we know he's /not/ the Seer, because per the Night 3 Tidbit we know Lottie is the only Gifted who's received votes.

It's vague enough to be deniable, but I think BoroWolf just gave himself away. Hopefully Form catches it!

Formerdacil did not catch it. I spent way too much mental energy tunnel-visioned in on finding acceptable quotes that I forgot to... play the game. I.e. to take what I knew (who couldn't be a Gifted) and translate that to the game in front of me.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I can probably be around pretty close to Deadline, so I'm available for tie-breaking duty. I'm shocked we haven't had anything more Seerish than ShadowBoro - has the Seer not done the maths, or do they think the Sally vote is a good one? Or... some other reason?

Still, looks like Form's having fun.

Got the "looks like fun" comment a lot on the Game thread too--and it is, but it's also a step up in terms of work. I would have been more silent than I was (and presumably even less effective) if it hadn't been a weekend: not because of time contraints. I ended up being around a fair bit, but the big different weekday to weekend is that finding quotes and copying them would have been WAAAAAY more of a pain on my phone.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

AHA! No you most definitely are not, and Form needs to say so ASAP.

Form needed to realise this and he 100% hadn't. Cluelessness doesn't end in the afterlife.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Ah, yes! Thoughts on Ghost. Anything that should be modified before the next haunting?

I don't know that there's anything I'd modify. Big fail on my part losing sight of the "full sentences" bit, though perhaps my failure to realise "anyone who has been voted for ≠ a Gift" balanced out my unwitting cheating.

It really is an experience being "Dead but trapped in the world of the Living" and barred from passing on to the "Place of the Dead" (thread). I think part of my tunnel vision--besides the never ending quest to find a way to express myself and my knowledge in quotes--had something to do with being as diligent as possible about not entering the Dead Thread while I was the Ghost. I gotta say, it really hammers home the extent to which this game relies on trusting our fellow players. I mean, we do, but the source of illicit info is RIGHT THERE. It's an honour system and it's pretty awesome.

It's harder than you think to find quotes, though it is pretty fun! I do wonder if The Letters might have been easier, but that didn't feel quite as sporting. It's Tolkien, but it isn't Middle-earth, if that makes sense.

[satansaloser2005]

Honey, I'm hoooooooooooome! *howls*

[Galadriel55]

Well you guys are quiet toNight. Is everybody dead?

Originally Posted by Formendacil

It really is an experience being "Dead but trapped in the world of the Living" and barred from passing on to the "Place of the Dead" (thread). I think part of my tunnel vision--besides the never ending quest to find a way to express myself and my knowledge in quotes--had something to do with being as diligent as possible about not entering the Dead Thread while I was the Ghost. I gotta say, it really hammers home the extent to which this game relies on trusting our fellow players. I mean, we do, but the source of illicit info is RIGHT THERE. It's an honour system and it's pretty awesome.

It absolutely is! (But don't give anyone ideas )

What I've always found fascinating is how couples manage to play this game and not give anything away. Every time Legate and Lommy play together, which is actually quite often, I imagine them trying very hard to keep their poker-faces and avoid looking at each other while they're at the computers. And same goes for all the other WW couples. I don't know how you guys do it, I think I would be instantly meta-read by my behaviour IRL during the game. Would anyone like to share the wisdom?

[satansaloser2005]

Agreed, it's spooooOOOOooooky quiet.

[satansaloser2005]

Fair warning, I will be pretty quiet during real life tomorrow, as I am having some surgery and will be either unconscious or wicked high for most of the day, so I probably won't be around.

I do look forward to all of the shenanigans that will be waiting for me when I get back though.

Keep lynching innocents! Go, team, go!

[Galadriel55]

I hope everything goes well tomorrow Sally. Rest up, and let the packmates worry about the rest of it.

[Blind Guardian]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Fair warning, I will be pretty quiet during real life tomorrow, as I am having some surgery and will be either unconscious or wicked high for most of the day, so I probably won't be around.

I do look forward to all of the shenanigans that will be waiting for me when I get back though.

Keep lynching innocents! Go, team, go!

Sally please tell me you're still online. I deleted the email with the pick!! Please resend it. I can't even click on your username for some reason to PM you.

[Blind Guardian]

I sent Sally a message, but omg I had one job and I messed it up!!

[Blind Guardian]

Why do we only get 20 spaces for messages? It's the worst for werewolf.

[Blind Guardian]

Woohoo! Sally comes through at the absolute perfect time!! Here is toNight's infodump for you all to digest... Use it wisely.

Both remaining wolves voted for Hui at some point in the game

[A Little Green]

Good job, fellow corpses! One down, two to go

Originally Posted by Huin

Given that Pitch "spotted her Seer hints" before she'd actually said anything which could reasonably be construed that way, I am 99% sure they're a second wolf.

This is a good point. In other ways, too, Pitch was giving off a vibe of a wolf wavering between bussing or not bussing a fellow.

Another good thing - the real Seer didn't come out despite a fake reveal, so they get at least one more dream. (Great way to go by the way, Sallycakes!) I really, really hope Boro is innocent and the wolves take his fake-Seer bait, but he might have been a bit too explicit about it to make this plausible. Secondly, if Lommy is the Seer, she's a genius with all that stuff about thinking the real Seer should come out. (Sadly, I think she's more likely to be a wolf than the Seer.)

Originally Posted by BG

Both remaining wolves voted for Hui at some point in the game

So that's two wolves among Morsul, Lommy, Pitch, Boro, and Legate. Soriman and Kath are innocent. That's good, that narrows it down a bit.

I think we should definitely do another Ghost toMorrow - we can't afford not to, given that we basically have two known innocents.

[A Little Green]

I also meant to say that Form, you did a very impressive job as the Ghost! And Sally, hope everything goes well and you'll feel better soon <3

[Loslote]

I hope everything goes well, Sally! Wishing you speedy healing. <3

Form, you were a total rockstar - that was an incredible effort, and watching Boro pick up the clues so perfectly was an absolutely delight.

So that's Boro, Pitch, Legate, Lommy, and Morsul (Day 1). Unless I missed a vote somewhere, that completely clears Kath and - I am legit surprised here - Soriman. If we recall, our Seer is one of Legate, Lommy, Soriman, or Kath, so our Ghost should perhaps lead the village away from possible Seers [/b]Legate[/b] and Lommy. Ideally I would love to see the village go for Pitch toMorrow, because of how he seemed to set up the Sally-Seer fake reveal, perhaps by looking for several "the pitch black of night" quotes.

I think Boro's decoy Seer play, and particularly the way he stopped doing it once the Ranger was dead, and his incredible interpretation of Form's quotes made him look very much innocent. Morsul jumped on Sally right away, but if all three of them were wolves, that would have been a no-win situation regardless of who he turned the blame on. Lommy and Legate kept hemming and hawing over Boro's interpretation long enough that I found it a little suspicious, Lommy maybe more so, but as possible Seers, I don't think we should paint them into a corner too quickly - not when we have a more likely wolf in Pitch. So, my vote would be for our Ghost to clear the names of Soriman and Kath, and try to push the village towards lynching Pitch. Do we have any volunteers for what we now know is a work intensive job early in the week?

[Huinesoron]

Collecting vote-tallies. Italics for innocent (including our Mod-confirmed pair), bold for wolf.

Day 1:

Kath > Morsul
Greenie > Pitch
Morsul > hS
Lommy > hS [2]
Legate > Greenie
Huinesoron > Greenie [2]
Form > Sally
Boro > Lottie
Lottie > Greenie [3]
Sally > no-one
Pitch > hS [3]
Soriman > no vote

Day 2:

Morsul > Sally
Sally > Lottie
Kath > Sally [2]
Soriman > Lottie [2]
Huinesoron > Boro
Boro > Huinesoron
Lommy > Huinesoron (2)
Legate > Huinesoron (3) [cross]
Pitch > Huinesoron (4)
Lottie > Huinesoron (5)

Day 3:

Morsul --> Sally
Kath > Sally (2)
Boro > Sally (3)
Lommy --> Sally (4)
Soriman --> Sally (5)
Legate --> Sally (6)
Pitch --> Sally (7)

Wow, we... actually know a lot. But not... quite... enough.

I do think Kath's instant disbelief of Sally's Seer claim was a bit too Seerish, and that we'll probably see Kath show up here toNight. Best case would probably be to see Legate or Lommy rock up as an ordo, because that would leave us only one wolf/seer candidate.

hS

[Huinesoron]

Updated Things We (Still) Know:

A) This information all used up.

B) None of Boro, Pitch, and Morsul are the Seer.

C) The Seer is either Legate, Lommy, Soriman, or Kath.

D) The two wolves can be found among Boro, Pitch, Legate, Lommy, and Morsul .

E) Soriman and Kath cannot be wolves.

Wolf/Ordo: Boro, Pitch, Morsul
Wolf/Seer: Legate, Lommy
Ordo/Seer: Soriman, Kath

I agree that we should send a Ghost in with this info. I guess I'll volunteer if nobody actually wants it?

My inclination is to say the Ghost should lead with a clear post stating the two Mod-read innocents. How clear is/isn't this?

~

And it came to pass that Ilúvatar called together all the Ainur and declared to them a mighty theme, unfolding to them things greater and more wonderful than he had yet revealed; and the glory of its beginning and the splendour of its end amazed the Ainur, so that they bowed before Ilúvatar and were silent.

It must be remembered that the Stones were originally "innocent," serving no evil purpose.

In a casket on a high shelf two things were laid.

He then pointed out and named those whom Frodo had not met before.

And I would ask this also. What of Saruman?

He is surer of finding the way home in a blind night than the cats of Queen Berúthiel.

~

I wish there was a better way of clueing Kath.

hS

[Formendacil]

If you want the gig, Hui, it's all yours. I'm WILLING to do it again but I'm more than willing to spread the love.

And, yes, our new, supplemental knowledge of the Known Innocents should be our first and foremost focus.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

If you want the gig, Hui, it's all yours. I'm WILLING to do it again but I'm more than willing to spread the love.

Long story short: I'm confident I can pass on the Known Innocents and our suspicion of Pitch, and can call out a fake Boro/Pitch/Morsul Seer play. I doubt I'll be much good at guiding the Living beyond that, so if someone else feels more capable, I will happily let them be the Ghost.

hS

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Long story short: I'm confident I can pass on the Known Innocents and our suspicion of Pitch, and can call out a fake Boro/Pitch/Morsul Seer play. I doubt I'll be much good at guiding the Living beyond that, so if someone else feels more capable, I will happily let them be the Ghost.

hS

Guiding the Living is like herding cats, so that's a bonus not the meat of the matter.

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Form

Guiding the Living is like herding cats, so that's a bonus not the meat of the matter.

This is probably sad but true. Huin, you sound more than capable for the job, so if you want it, do go for it! I'll try to have a quick look at our prospective wolves (Pitch, Boro, Legate, Lommy and Morsul) and their interactions with Sally later today, just to see if there's something obvious we've missed.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

This is probably sad but true. Huin, you sound more than capable for the job, so if you want it, do go for it! I'll try to have a quick look at our prospective wolves (Pitch, Boro, Legate, Lommy and Morsul) and their interactions with Sally later today, just to see if there's something obvious we've missed.

Heh, fair enough. Okay, then,

++HUINESORON

for misguided Ghost.

Gorlim it was, who wearying
of toil and flight and harrying
one night by chance did turn his feet
o'er the dark fields by stealth to meet
with hidden friends within a dale...

hS

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Formendacil

I gotta say, it really hammers home the extent to which this game relies on trusting our fellow players. I mean, we do, but the source of illicit info is RIGHT THERE. It's an honour system and it's pretty awesome.

I love the fact that the game about everyone lying is also a game that requires us to trust everyone. It's a glorious paradox. ^_^

Originally Posted by Formendacil

It's harder than you think to find quotes, though it is pretty fun! I do wonder if The Letters might have been easier, but that didn't feel quite as sporting. It's Tolkien, but it isn't Middle-earth, if that makes sense.

Makes perfect sense. I've stuck with what I consider to be the "published legendarium" - allowing the Great Tales, but not anything from HoME or anything non-Middle-earth. Doing the whole thing in quotes from Beowulf, Arthur, Kullervo, Gawain, Pearl, and Sigurd/Gudrun would be hilarious in principle, but very hard in practice.

Originally Posted by Loslote

Ideally I would love to see the village go for Pitch toMorrow, because of how he seemed to set up the Sally-Seer fake reveal, perhaps by looking for several "the pitch black of night" quotes.

I've managed to scrape together three, one of which includes the word "pitch" at least twice (thank you, Bilbo!). It should suffice.

Given the whole midnight thing, my plan is to hit the Living with a string of four posts right off the bat, and then basically go to sleep and let the wolves try and claim they don't understand what a quote with the word innocent in actual quote marks could possibly mean.

(It's 'It must be remembered that the Stones were originally "innocent," serving no evil purpose', from UT.)

Assuming the Ghost rules don't change, of course. I think they worked pretty much as intended, but know that others may have different opinions. Mods, if the Ghost rules are going to be changed, will we be told the new rules at Daybreak or in advance?

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Assuming the Ghost rules don't change, of course. I think they worked pretty much as intended, but know that others may have different opinions. Mods, if the Ghost rules are going to be changed, will we be told the new rules at Daybreak or in advance?

I don't think the Ghost will change. Stick to what we have (and full sentences please!). If I do get a really good suggestion in my PM box in the next couple hours, I will let you know. Otherwise I will confirm on the Admin thread that the Ghost remains the same - also in a couple hours.

[satansaloser2005]

Oh, I don't know, I'd love to throw my hat in the ring to be the ghost!

P.S. I think the seer is Kath. Or, as my voice to text thought I was saying, I think the serious calf.

I'm strongly considering telling you guys things later today, but doing so only through voice to text, which will butcher everyone's names. This would give you extra fun in trying to work out what I'm saying.