Tears of Mirrormere Discussion Thread

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, after pondering whether to take one or not, as I did also on this thread, I have decided that it will be good for me to take a secondary character after all. I have been talking about this to Lommy at least, and she approved. It will be really just a secondary character, but he will be around, and I am planning for him to survive longer than Óin, so I can have somebody to play even after Óin dies

NAME: Onli

AGE: 126

RACE: Dwarf of Durin's Folk

GENDER: Male

WEAPONS: Onli carries a short iron spear with him, but very often, he walks around unarmed. The spear is just a simple weapon he packed with himself on the journey. After the invasion becomes apparent, he picks a heavy two-handed mattock.

APPEARANCE: Onli is sturdy, rather fat, with a tanned skin. His hair and beard are both short and red, his eyes in deep sockets are dark brown. He often wears a green hooded cloak, big brown boots and a brown belt with a large golden buckle. He has a pretty big pouch filled with gems behind his belt, and another one in the back, usually hidden from the sight of others. In an inside pocket of his cloak, he keeps his greatest treasure – a shard of mitril. He does not prefer to wear armor, but if need be, he can be persuaded to take on some.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Onli is very good in counting, especially when it means counting profit (even in metaphorical terms), has some good diplomacy skills and is very good in appraising valuable things, jewels, gems etc. just by sight. His dominant character traits are greed and cowardice, mixed together in the well-balanced way for Onli to survive and at the same moment to gain the most profit from his situation. His behavior, which is more calculative than friendly, has made him many contacts, but very few friends (and some people who dislike him a bit... or a lot).

HISTORY: Onli comes from a family of simple miners. He had a brother and a sister, but as soon as he could, he went on his own and practically cut all the ties with the family. He started in the Blue Mountains as a helper of one of the local „trade managers“, a Dwarven caravan master Vill. He got his hands close to the preparations of the Quest for Erebor (being one of the very few who knew about it from very early) and several years earlier, even to the mysterious quest of Dúvi of the Firebeards, which was a big subject of gossip back then. After the reoccupation of Erebor, Onli quickly sniffed the opportunity to make a quick profit and moved to King Dáin's realm. Unfortunately for him, Dáin had already his own closest counsellors for the things concerning trade, mining and finances in general. Had Thorin been the King, Onli would have surely managed to gain an important position next to him. Still, he managed to profit well on the activities connected with rebuilding the Kingdom and Dale. However, he was not content. And thus, when the gossip about return to Moria started to go around, he was most excited and tried to subtly manipulate people around him, pulling the strings of the many contacts he had, working both ways for making it possible to go and at the same time trying to work upon discouraging the higher places from any kind of „official“ recolonisation. This way, he wanted to ensure that neither of King Dáin's most important „financial advisors“ is among the first ones to go, and when it seemed clear that Balin will be the one to lead the colonists, Onli was fast to offer his services to oversee the administration of the mining (if there will be any) and listing all the loot and hoard that is going to be found (if there will be any). Listing, counting profit, appreciating found treasures, that's what he did, and he was among those to encourage the most the search for mitril. When some has finally been found, Onli was there and it pleased him to take the a shard, a share of the first profit for himself.

PET - Vriti, ferret: Onli has a pet: his sparking orange-furred (with three black strips on the back) Eastern mountain ferret Vriti, who is over six years old and traveled with him here from as far as Erebor, where he bought it once from an animal tamer from Dale. Vriti has shiny green eyes, sneaky and sometimes aggressive nature and has big dislike for strangers, and for several Dwarves whose smell she probably dislikes. Often, when being with Onli, she sleeps curled on his shoulder or around his neck. Vriti is most probably the only creature Onli cares about (though if Vriti cares about Onli more than because he gives him food is unknown), and surely the only companion he often has.
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LINKED TO PLAYER - CHARACTER LIST ~*~ Pio

[Thinlómien]

Okay, sorry, I've been occupied with... other stuff today so I haven't got almost anything done for this RPG... I will post the bio of my secondary character, reply some things and send Groin the PM I promised to send him ages ago tomorrow, now it's just too late...

[Kath]

*waves*

Got the nudge. Been a bit busy sorry, will try to get those bio's up tomorrow.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Bah, come on, at least writing a character description (well, of course presuming you have some general idea about the character already) is nothing that hard. For example, I did manage to write the description of my secondary character almost all by today. I just wonder what you people do...

[Durelin]

I will never ask anyone to hurry up! (I wonder why...) As far as I'm concerned, take your time writing your characters and finalizing things for the game...

I think more than just the warrior-types could be with Balin at the Mirromere, couldn't they? Obviously they are still wary of dangers, but there has been peace for a while, and Balin's purpose is simply to see it...couldn't others tag along because they want to see it, too?

On the other hand, I can see Balin and the leader-types, or the warrior-types, not allowing it all the same. I especially can see them not allowing the women...

And I suppose there is the simple limit that you can't have a whole bunch of dwarves following Balin around outside... So perhaps limiting it to a specific type - the 'military leaders' as you called them - is the best way to go, Groin, to keep it simple.

Anyway, just my bit. I'm fine with either way. I do think not all will go/be allowed to go with Balin, of course, and I'm sure those who aren't along will find plenty to do before all hell breaks loose.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I would agree with most of what Groin and Durelin said on the subject of following Balin, these "military leaders", and probably Balin's closest friends. Obviously, it will be also easier to get the events out there rolling just with the smaller number of Dwarves, there may be also need to send somebody to call upon reinforcements when it shows up that there is more Orcs than what is good for them etc., etc.... whatever the Mods also may have planned, for that matter.

And as for hurrying up, I am of course not pushing anybody to hurry hurry finish their character (I am actually surprised that the bios have been done so fast). Better to take your time and make your character the way you know you are really going to like him and know you would like to unfold his personality in this direction you set...

[Gwathagor]

I'm all for just a few dwarves going with Balin to the Mirrormere. Why does he choose that day to visit the pool?

[Durelin]

Originally Posted by Legate

And as for hurrying up, I am of course not pushing anybody to hurry hurry finish their character

I know you were just teasing.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I'm all for just a few dwarves going with Balin to the Mirrormere. Why does he choose that day to visit the pool?

I have no idea, but is it not possible - as it's the tenth of November, which is close to the end of autumn - that it was the Durin's day for that year? That would make a lot of sense. I cannot look it up now, but in The Hobbit chapter 3 when Elrond reads the runes, Thorin explains what exactly Durin's day is and that it is something like the last day before winter when the moon shows in the sky during the day or something like that. If we could determine if it was possible that year to be the 10th Nov... but I find it probable.

[Gwathagor]

Yes, I was thinking it might be Durin's Day or something similar.

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Yes, I was thinking it might be Durin's Day or something similar.

Originally Posted by Legate

I have no idea, but is it not possible - as it's the tenth of November, which is close to the end of autumn - that it was the Durin's day for that year? That would make a lot of sense. I cannot look it up now, but in The Hobbit chapter 3 when Elrond reads the runes, Thorin explains what exactly Durin's day is and that it is something like the last day before winter when the moon shows in the sky during the day or something like that. If we could determine if it was possible that year to be the 10th Nov... but I find it probable.

Ah, you little mind readers you! I was just fancying the idea, that on the last day that the Dwarves are alive, in the Chamber of Marzabul, they see the moon and sun in the sky through the tunnel of light that focuses on Balin’s tomb. I forgot that we had some scholars in our midst, but I don’t think November 10th was Durin’s Day.

Holiday of the Dwarves, Durin's Day, occurred only when the Moon and the Sun were in the sky together on the Dwarves' New Year's Day - which was the first day of the last Moon of autumn. By the end of the Third Age, the Dwarves no longer had the ability to calculate when such a phenomenon would occur. According to my calculations, the Autumn in the northern hemisphere is assumed to start on the autumnal equinox, generally on September 22nd, the season runs until about December 21st. The first day of the last new moon of Autumn could thus take place any time between about November 22 and December 21.

That’s my two cents on the matter, though don’t take my word for it, I’m not entirely sure that I calculated correctly. However, as to Balin issuing from Moria to look upon Mirrormere I think that this was just an urge that he had. Years ago Durin looked upon Mirrormere and saw a crown of stars appear above his head in the reflection. The Dwarves set a pillar up to commemorate the spot on which these events occurred and it was here that Balin died (I hope I’m not preaching to the choir on this).

It is possible that Balin was going to give a speech of importance to his leaders and wanted a moment to meditate alone at the site on which their (meaning Durin’s Folk) greatest leader had had his inspiration to found the colony of Khazad-dum.

Anyway, your new character looks great Legate! I trust that this will be the Dwarf who will survive until the very end? Thanks for getting yours up too, Ilya, it looks grand! Kath, the pressure’s on!

P.S. Whoever want's to take up Loni or Nali as a secondary character better make up their mind quick. It looks like we are winding down here with the preparations.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

It is possible that Balin was going to give a speech of importance to his leaders and wanted a moment to meditate alone at the site on which their (meaning Durin’s Folk) greatest leader had had his inspiration to found the colony of Khazad-dum.

Possible. He had been there for several years, though, so why then on that particular day? The dwarves were a fairly ritualistic race, and it seems at any rate possible that there was some specific reason for his visit to Mirrormere.

[Thinlómien]

Alright, here comes my secondary character (whom I can hopefully kill off before the end )...

NAME: Vigdis

AGE: 147

RACE: Dwarf

GENDER: female

WEAPONS: A beautiful, heavy sword with runes of protection as a decoration.

APPEARANCE: Vigdis' hair is black and she keeps it on a single braid that reaches below her waist. She has a broad, plain face the only striking feature of which are the dark grey deep-set eyes that betray little of what goes on behind them. She's of an average height for a Dwarf woman and a little sturdier.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Vigdis is a skilled mason dedicated to her work. She's hard-working and ambitious, which has enabled her to achieve a lot in her profession. She also makes sculptures of stone, but doesn't regard them as anything else but the crude work of an amateur.

Vigdis is reserved and honest and she has an exceptionally good memory. It has aided her in many ways in the course of her life, but it has little by little turned her grudging and spiteful. This unpleasant trait in her character is only enforced by the typical Dwarven determination and relentlessness that live strongly in her.

HISTORY: Vigdis was born in the Iron Hills on the last day of year 2846. She was the only child of a famous warrior and his wife, and became disappointment to her father just because of her gender. When she grew older, he wanted to train her in the arts of war nevertheless. Her mother considered this very inappropriate, for Dwarf women do not go to war. Therefore, she left her husband and moved to another settlement, taking her young daughter with her.

However, Vigdis became a disappointment for her mother too. She would have liked to see her become a scribe and a rune-master, but Vigdis could not have been less interested in ink and dusty tomes. Instead, she seeked to be apprenticed to a master mason, and to the surprise of her mother, was accepted.

For the next several decades, she studied her craft and developed her working methods. Before long it became evident that she had surpassed her master both in knowledge and skill and a rivalry appeared between them. The mutual trust and respect were turning into jealousy and forced courtesy. When Dáin became the King under the Mountain, Vigdis was ready to join those of his folk who followed him.

Erebor changed Vigdis' life. There was plenty of work for a willing and able craftsman like her and she could finally lead a life without the pressure of her family or her tutor. Also, it was in the Kingdom under the Mountain that she met Balin, son of Fundin, and fell in love with him. It was evident, though, that Lord Balin desired no wife. Proud and stubborn like the womanfolk of her people tend to be, Vigdis decided that if he would not have her, she would take no other husband for no one else would fill her standards. So she nurtured her love in silence and dedicated herself even more to her craft. But when Balin announced that he would go to Khazad-dûm, there was no question about Vigdis following. The colony has given Vigdis more freedom and more work than she could ever have imagined and thanks to the continuous skirmishes with Orcs, she has been able to refresh her skills with the sword as well.
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LINKED TO PLAYER - CHARACTER LIST ~*~ Pio

[Thinlómien]

Himaran and Ilya - your characters look great. I'm very excited to get to write with you!

Legate great character bio too... but did you really have to pick those names?

I think the idea about Durin's Day sounds credible.

Originally Posted by Legate

these "military leaders", and probably Balin's closest friends. Obviously, it will be also easier to get the events out there rolling just with the smaller number of Dwarves, there may be also need to send somebody to call upon reinforcements when it shows up that there is more Orcs than what is good for them etc., etc.... whatever the Mods also may have planned, for that matter.

I agree with this. I think we should assume that Balin would have a small selected group of trusted men with him, and there could be more Dwarves further away guarding their backs.

PS. I'll send you the promise PM later today, Groin.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

First: Yay, your secondary character seems even better than I thought, Lommy. I say, great to have her there. (And as for me, yes, I did have to pick those names What's wrong with them? They are Dwarvish a lot!)

Second:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Holiday of the Dwarves, Durin's Day, occurred only when the Moon and the Sun were in the sky together on the Dwarves' New Year's Day - which was the first day of the last Moon of autumn. By the end of the Third Age, the Dwarves no longer had the ability to calculate when such a phenomenon would occur. According to my calculations, the Autumn in the northern hemisphere is assumed to start on the autumnal equinox, generally on September 22nd, the season runs until about December 21st. The first day of the last new moon of Autumn could thus take place any time between about November 22 and December 21

I cannot count at all and I did not count this by myself, but if that may be of any help to anyone (who could for example deduce something from it ):

On the year Bilbo came to Erebor (2841), Durin's Day was not later than on 30th October (according to Karen Wynn Fonstad's Atlas of Middle-Earth) - and certainly somewhat later than 9th October, when the Dwarves left the Lake-Town.

According to the Encyclopedia of Arda, "The first day of the Dwarves' year was calculated according to the last new moon of autumn (that is, the new moon that occurs within two weeks of 6 October, on a modern calendar)." That would be, according to the same website, 15th October in LotR calendar, which is the number relevant for us.
The page also shows the Durin's Days for the current time, and the dates shown are between 22 Sept - 18 Oct (in LotR counting that would be 13 Sept - 27 Oct).
(Does this seem curious to anyone? Just asking. But at least, the datum of Durin's Day in TH fits - very closely - the timeframe set here.)

So, I have no idea about this and all and I am saying only what I read from these resources: it seems that usually, Durin's Day would occur rather sometime during late October or such. And thus, not by the time we need it. Bah. Horrible, actually. (I shouldn't have started with that anyway.) I haven't even managed to think (by trying to switch the date of 10th November into various calendars ) of any trick how to make the date fit into the timeframe of our tale.

In any case, together with Gwath I would say that I am inclined to think there was some special reason for Balin to go to look into the Mirrormere on that particular day.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, double-post, which may help us and also perhaps ignore the rant above (I spent about three quarters an hour with searching all this stuff... gah) I decided, just when leaving, to look up also on Wikipedia.

Does not anybody have some kind of HoME with calendars with marked Durin's Day for each year of the Third Age, or something like that? It would make things a lot easier...

Anyway, the Wikipedia - what surprised me was the information I found there, which differed completely from the above but went close to Groin's countings:

The first day of the last new moon of Autumn could thus take place any time between about November 22 and December 21.

But then it continues:

However, the seasons in Tolkien's work have the four solar markers at the center of the seasons, not the beginning. For example, Midsummer occurs on the summer solstice, Midwinter on the winter solstice, etc. Autumn would therefore begin midway between the summer solstice and the autumnal equinox in early August and end midway between the autumnal equinox and the winter solstice, usually around November 6.

That sounds a lot better, because in the LotR calendar, Nov 6 would be Nov 16 (not much of a difference for us anyway). Thus, our Nov 10, when Balin dies, would be really "around" the date supported by Wikipedia.

I have no idea, though, as I don't see into these countings at all, which information is more relevant. But we may as well take for relevant the one that fits us more, what do you say

In any case, I would be more inclined to support the idea of Balin going out on Durin's Day.

And now, I am going to be late for class...
Actually, I won't. For simple reason:
*dies*

[Kath]

Right I've written one of the bio's so I'll post that and then get back to you with the other soon.

Here be Svior - my male Dwarf:

Name: Svior

Age: 130

Race: Dwarf

Gender: Male

Weapons: Svior’s preferred weapon is his single edged axe with which he is extremely capable. He will and can fight with anything else to hand but upon entering battle it is always his axe that he will reach for first. He does also carry a dagger and a shield.

Appearance: Average height but a slightly less stocky build than most, which gives the false impression of inferior strength. Has a mane of dark hair and a dark beard, both of which are wound into a tight braid. His eyes are a deep brown and gentle unless seen in the heat of battle. Svior practically lives in his armour but if he is out of it he wears a sturdy dark coloured tunic, always with a belt around to hold his axe.

Personality/strengths/weaknesses: Svori has always been quite extroverted and as such he is well liked and has many acquaintances. Much of his time is spent singing and talking about past battles or simply the occurrences of everyday life. However, despite this there are few that he calls true friend and it is only the most loyal and trustworthy that gain this honour. In deference to keeping the peace between all those he knows he does not make this distinction obvious.

He does not have a hot temper but is easily drawn into disputes because of his innate curiosity. This same curiosity has led him into many different avenues in life. He has tried deep study, musical appreciation, smithwork, mining and other occupations but has found it difficult to settle on any one course because he is always interested in the next thing.

His ease with his fellow Dwarves extends to the women as well among whom he has always been popular as he treats them as he would any male, only with a little more good natured teasing. There is one specific woman, Hepti, whom he has his eye on and has done for some time, and it is for her sake that he is currently forcing himself to concentrate fully on improving his mining skills.

History: Svori spent most of his youth learning many skills to a certain level but none to true Dwarvish standards of perfection. None bar fighting, that is, which he greatly enjoys and thus practised the most. However, in recent years he has found himself smitten by Hepti who is not quite so smitten with him, and who has demanded that he make something of himself before he approaches her. Upon finding out that Hepti would be part of the group setting out to retake Moria Svori bent to the task of becoming a good enough miner to join the company. With such an incentive he soon found himself much improved and entitled to be a part of the mission.
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LINKED TO PLAYER - CHARACTER LIST ~*~ Pio

[Kath]

And here is Hepti, my female one:

Name: Hepti

Age: 125

Race: Dwarf

Gender: Female

Weapons: One double-headed axe and two small daggers are always on her person.

Appearance: Hepti is of average height and build, with long dark brown hair usually coiled at the back of her neck to keep it out of the way and deep green eyes. She wears a dark green tunic.

Personality/strengths/weaknesses: Hepti is one to find amusement in everything, but she is also a very hard worker. She has long been a very skilled smith and can do almost anything with metals. The dedication she has to her work does mean that she has few friends as she rarely bothers to try making them, and her humour often does not sit well with other Dwarves.

She also has a habit of regarding males as a lesser species, especially those like Svori who cannot hold to any one profession. It gives her great amusement to demand things of them that she suspects they cannot manage and enjoys the power this gives her.

History: The challenge that rebuilding Moria offers is what made Hepti join the group. Having reached a level of skill at home that she could not improve upon she decided to take on a new venture in the hope of learning something new. She was surprised to find Svori coming along as well, having expected him to give up on her given the hard task she had set him. The fact that he has persevered puts him in her good books.
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LINKED TO PLAYER - CHARACTER LIST ~*~ Pio

[Groin Redbeard]

Alright, November 10th sounds like a good day. Durin's Day will be on the night of the 10th.

Kath, thank you so much for getting those character bios done so quickly, wonderful job!

Originally Posted by Lommy

I'll send you the promise PM later today, Groin.

I'm looking forward to it. Great job on your new character. Very unorthodox for a dwarf girl, but very well done, it will be interesting the way that your character plays out.

I guess since nobody has taken Loni or Nali, I'm going to take the Nali. If nobody takes Loni by tomorrow, I will take him as well. Hey, since all the character bios are in, except for Nali and Loni, I guess that it's OK to open the game thread! Huzzah!

[Groin Redbeard]

NAME: Nali

AGE: 227

RACE: Dwarf of the house of Durin

GENDER: Male

WEAPONS:His tongue is his chief weapon, though when in times of war he has a single handed mace, which, when in the arms of a powerful warrior, can smash the helm or hauberk of any opponent. He also has a richly decorated short sword/long knife which he always carries on his person, but it is more for decoration than fighting.

APPEARANCE: Nali stands a little taller than the average Dwarf and is not as strong as most of his kinsman. His beard is for the most part gold colored, but the signs of age are beginning to show and long streaks of white are beginning to appear on his head. His nose is long and crooked, wrinkles mark his face and emphasize the appearance of his sunken grey eyes. One can tell that he is a figure of importance by the way he bears himself.

Nali adorns himself in rich clothes and jewelry, several rings are always on his hands and gold bracelets are on both his wrists. When traveling abroad, Nali wears a long green robe which falls nearly to the ground and cover his arms up to his hand. When his abode he dresses in a simple tunic for studying and writing.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Nali's mood is for the most part mellow and quiet, but he posses great wisdom, attained from his long life. He follows easily enough and will not lead other people, leaving all the glory for the younger Dwarfs.

Some people mistake his quietness and sad expression for laziness and a lack of will. Make no mistake, Nali is a proud Dwarf and will not suffer to be scorned by the likes of others beneath his contempt and is capable of bending others to his will. When roused he is a deadly foe.

HISTORY:Nali was born in the year 2766 TA and is the the older brother of Loni. His father was a wealthy Seer in the Dwarven colony in the Blue Mountains. Nali's life was a pleasant one in the mountains. While still young, Nali developed a keen curiosity for things and he often went exploring in the caves with his younger brother Loni. Such curiosity led his parents to believe that he would be a gem tradesmen, but Nali's interests soon were turned towards lore and languages.

After the declaration of the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, their father left Nali and Loni to fight alongside king Thrain II. Their father was killed six years after his departure at the battle of Azanulbizar, and several years after this he left with his brother to become Thanes under King Dain II Ironfoot.

The king was pleased with their service and both the brothers were high in the king's thoughts. Nali, being the more studious of the two, he would often spend nights and days looking over old parchments. He was in-particularly interested in the old writings about Khazad-dum.

When duty called again, he mustered Dwarves and fought at The Battle of the Five Armies. Although he led a small band of Dwarves, under the fierce leadership of a Dwarf named Tror, he did an admirable job with keeping his band together. After the victory, Nali was content to go back to his home in the Iron Hills and live there in peace.

However, after fifty, or so, years of solitude word began to spread about a expedition, led by Balin, to retake the Dwarrowdelf for the the Dwarves. This news excited him at first, but it took much debate with himself in order to convince him to take the matter seriously. Finally, he consented to the urge to follow Balin, and gathered his house and overtook Balin just as the group was leaving. Since then he has lived in comfort in his new home and has not regretted the choice he had made five years prior and is most fond of his new found friends in the colony, namely the masons.
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LINKED TO PLAYER - CHARACTER LIST ~*~ Pio

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Very unorthodox for a dwarf girl, but very well done, it will be interesting the way that your character plays out.

Unorthodox? I actually think she is pretty close to "THE" Dwarf woman, in many things, as the Dwarven women are described in LotR.

Anyway - the other thing - nice characters, Kath! And I like your Náli too, Groin - especially him and Kath's Hepti provide some interesting variety (Náli especially in his weaponry - did you notice that almost EVERY Dwarf here has an axe? I mean, yes, it's classic, but what the??? Even "average" Dwarven warriors did not all fight with axes, I would actually even dare to speculate that axes were in minority. Look at what Dáin's people had in the Battle of the Five Armies - just like every army. Anyway). Is there anyone willing to take Lóni? I won't mind taking him (and, he's going to die soon anyway), but if anybody wishes to take him... Groin, maybe you should have given people more time, there are many people who have just one character and perhaps somebody would like to take Náli or Lóni for a short while as a second.

[Thinlómien]

You people are making all this date stuff unnecessarily complicated. Legate dear, do you understand you could actually have saved that 45 minutes of work if we had just simply decided Durin's day could have been November 10th? Anyway, if the matter is now settled, I'm not complaining by any means...

Kath and Groin - more great bios, I see. I'm especially curious to see what will happen if Ori and Hepti meet if he scorns women and she scorns men...

Originally Posted by Groin

Very unorthodox for a dwarf girl, but very well done, it will be interesting the way that your character plays out.

Not actually. I think the only unorthodox part is the one about military training, but it actually came there accidentally... And don't you call her a girl, she's older than your Tror...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

You people are making all this date stuff unnecessarily complicated. Legate dear, do you understand you could actually have saved that 45 minutes of work if we had just simply decided Durin's day could have been November 10th? Anyway, if the matter is now settled, I'm not complaining by any means...

Silli, I wanted to ensure we are not going to be uncanonical! And in any case, I feel better when knowing that whatever thing I write about, it is supported by what is written. Besides, if anything indicated for example that the Durin's Day will more likely occur later than earlier, I would go for supporting Groin's original idea (of having it on the last day).

Anyway, I am looking forward to any possible exchanges between Ori and Hepti too That sure should happen, at least once...

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Legate

Silli, I wanted to ensure we are not going to be uncanonical!

Yes, yes, canonicity guard strikes once again...

Anyway, I'd like to say two things to everybody now that I still remember - there are two things you should come up with for your characters in case you already haven't.
1) You should think what your character has mainly been doing in the colony, how is his/her ordinary life there. Writing will be difficult if you don't know this.
2) You should think about which other characters your character knows. It will be easier if you have friends or family around. Also, the colony is after all rather small, so you've probably at least seen almost everybody, so it would make sense you'd know at least one of the other characters. And like I said, it's always easier to start if you have someone you can easily interact with...
I will look for possible friends/acquaintances/enemies/relatives for my characters tomorrow and then make some suggestions. Right now, I'm too tired to take up such task and it's late anyway...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes, good points, and actually good idea with the other characters - it occured to me that I could for example write (maybe just for my own orientation, but maybe also for others', also for them to eventually consult it with me) a table, resp. a list of all the characters, and note to each what relation, or at least what feelings my character has towards each of the others (and how well he knows them, if just casually, or more, friendly etc.). I will do that separately for each of my characters... in this way, I think maybe everybody could do it like that? It would be an easy way to clear things up, first for yourself, then for the others, too. (And eventually, the first drafts can be rearranged by consulting among the players - like that they talk and mutually agree that their characters are actually going to hold a grudge against each other, or quite the opposite, be long-time friends, etc.)

[piosenniel]

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

I guess since nobody has taken Loni or Nali, I'm going to take the Nali. If nobody takes Loni by tomorrow, I will take him as well. Hey, since all the character bios are in, except for Nali and Loni, I guess that it's OK to open the game thread! Huzzah!

Are both you and Lommy ready to facilitate the game?

If so, I'll open the thread. Are there any directives you'd like to give the posters about their first posts?

Please do get the Character Bio for Loni on board before you post for him.

Since Child of the 7th Age is busy at the present, I'll be the Moderator for this RPG. I'll read along and step in only as needed or requested.

Looking forward to seeing how this game plays out!

~*~ Pio

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by piosenniel

Are both you and Lommy ready to facilitate the game?
If so, I'll open the thread. Are there any directives you'd like to give the posters about their first posts?

I think we should wait a couple of more days so everybody gets to negotiate a little about their characters relations before action begins, also, I think we game owners need to exchange one or two PMs before evreything is clear.

And this is important: I will write the first post and Groin will write the next one, but after we've got the ball rolling, everybody may post in any order and just as much as they please.

We will inform you a bit more about the starting point once we've decided about a thing or two. Please bear with us... I'm sometimes incredibly slow at planning things or getting them done. But like I said already, we should be able to start the game in a few days. I will start drafting my first post already today so I may post it as soon as pio opens the thread.

[Thinlómien]

Just because I was curious I wanted to list all the characters in an order of their ages... It looks rather interesting:

Nali 227 (Groin)
Óin 220 (Legate)
Kénan 210 (Folwren)
Ori 194 (Lommy)
Frar 175 (Gwath)
Vigdis 147 (Lommy)
Trór 140 (Groin)
Svior 130 (Kath)
Onli 126 (Legate)
Hepti 125 (Kath)
Vitr 101 (Arry)
Dalin ~100 (Himaran)
Gror 95 (Boro)
Kórin 92 (Dury)
Kór 88 (Dury)
Lys and Nîsa 87 (Lilly and Groin)
Buri 85 (Gwath)
Bain 80 (Dim)
Adela 52 (Ilya)
Kéni 20 (Kit)
Iari 10 (Kit)
Tiv and Tíva 7 (Lilly&Arry)

I think the ages go rather nicely...

And looking at all these Dwarves, they amuse me. Somehow people always pick names that amuse me as a Finn. Don't worry, there's nothing too bad around this time - just that: tror = believe (Swedish), naali (close enough to Náli) = arctic fox (Finnish), and ori = stallion (Finnish again, and I know, it's me who plays him... and as a sidenote, "kili" means a little goat in Finnish). And Jari would be a Finnish man's name but it took me a very long time to even vaguely connect that with Iari.

Okay, to return to a bit more serious stuff...

I also thought a list of professions would be good (now please correct me if I've got something wrong about your characters) if not for anything else, than at least when thinking about possible connections:

Trór - Balin's second in command, warrior
Nîsa - sort of a healer, no special profession
Nali - loremaster, warrior
Ori - ironsmith, sort of loremaster, semi-warrior
Vigdis - mason, semi-warrior
Óin - scout (that includes warriorism/semi-warriorism)
Onli - adminstratory guy
Frar - warrior
Buri - smith
Kór and Kórin - no special professions?
Lys - jewellry smith (is that a word?)
Vitr - jack of all trades craftsman (prefers working on mithril)
Bain - craftsman (not specified)
Kénan - no special profession?
Gror - warrior, messenger
Dalin - weaponsmith (again, is that a word?), semi-warrior
Adela - cook
Svior - jack-of-all-trades, semi-warrior, learning mining
Hepti - smith

Kath - do you think Vigdis and Hepti being friends would sound good? Not probably very close friends as they both strike me as a bit workaholic but I just have the feeling they would probably get along well...

Groin - you said Nali is the friend of masons? That would mean he'd know Vigdis, most probably. Do we want them to be friends or do we want Vigdis have some silly old grudge against him? I think either of those ideas would be good... Also, as a loremaster and old, important dwarf, Nali would probably know Ori. I think we can assume they're friends?

Legate - I have no idea why I'm writing this as it's so obvious, but Ori and Óin are surely friends?

Arry - you mentioned stone masonry as being one of Vitr's professions. Would it be ok for you if he and Vigdis were friends?

Okay, that's all that seems obvious to me. I will try to think of a few more connections to my characters... also, anyone, if you'd like my characters to know yours, just ask - it'd be great.

And now, lastly, one more reminder for everybody: practically everyone is going to die in this RPG. Also, we have quite a lot of characters. So, especially those who have more than one character, don't shy away from killing off them even quite early. It's better if they don't all die in the last battle. I may personally say that I will save Ori to the last moments since that's what LotR says, but Vigdis will be killed of before that. Also, hmm, don't take these words of mine too seriously - don't ruin your RPG experience by pondering all the time how you could get your characters killed. *would add a smiley, but you know, there's a limit....*

[Folwren]

Don't you think that to a certain extent, all the dwarves would know each other? At least on speaking basis. They won't all be perfect strangers to each other, surely. It'd be something like a small town community. First, they had to travel together from Dale to Moria, and then they've been living in the same area together, and there really aren't all that many of them.

Just my thoughts on the matter...

[Groin Redbeard]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Not actually. I think the only unorthodox part is the one about military training, but it actually came there accidentally...

OK, not very unorthodox (a better word would be original). That military training struck me as strange, but not unlikely, that and her parents breaking up but that was about it.

Originally Posted by Lommy

And don't you call her a girl, she's older than your Tror...

Yes ma'am.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Groin - you said Nali is the friend of masons? That would mean he'd know Vigdis, most probably. Do we want them to be friends or do we want Vigdis have some silly old grudge against him? I think either of those ideas would be good... Also, as a loremaster and old, important dwarf, Nali would probably know Ori. I think we can assume they're friends?

I think that it would be more likely for a certain level of animosity between the two of them. Vigdis you say likes masonry and turned books down a longtime ago, whereas books are Nali's pursuit. Also, Nali might not appreciate a girl (oops...) such as Vigdis, being a dwarf of high quality he's use to higher class women.

Originally Posted by Folwren

Don't you think that to a certain extent, all the dwarves would know each other? At least on speaking basis. They won't all be perfect strangers to each other, surely. It'd be something like a small town community. First, they had to travel together from Dale to Moria, and then they've been living in the same area together, and there really aren't all that many of them.

Right, there should be a certain level of familiarity between the Dwarves, but people do tend to hang out with people who they like.

I'll see what I can do for my characters.

[Kath]

Kath - do you think Vigdis and Hepti being friends would sound good? Not probably very close friends as they both strike me as a bit workaholic but I just have the feeling they would probably get along well...

Sounds like a plan Lommy. A bit of a friends when they meet but they don't really seek each other out thing?

[Groin Redbeard]

There are so many wonderful characters here that I found great difficulty picking out the ones that my characters most adapt to. Fortunately there is at least one of every type of personality here, no shortages on characters to choose from.

Tror

Thinlomien- Ori and Tror definately know each other and obviously are friends.

Legate- Same thing as I told Lommy, although Oin might be Tror's best friend. Oin is obviosly more of a battle hardened type and Tror would depend on him greatly when in battle, ergo a relationship must have been formed if they are to work closely together.

Gwath- I had trouble with your character. Frar is definately a warrior like Tror and by the looks of it they are pretty much par with fighting ability (but if one is to be better than the other, I'd say you win), now Tror can take this as rivalry or he can simply acknowledge that you are the better man. Personally I think a bit of rivalry between the two would be nice, what do you think?

Folwren- Your character Kenan is pretty much in line to Tror's way of thinking. Although he is younger than your character I think that Kenan and him are pretty much alike. Unfortunately I don't know where to go with it, should there be a quiet fatherly friendship between the two?

Nisa

Kath- Nisa might have a crush on Hepti, would that be fine. *smiley*

Ilya- I think that it would be probable that Nisa and Adela would know each other, being the same age and all. Would this be alright with you?

Lilly- Lys, if it is alright with you, would be the one that Nisa would hang out with the most. Although your character is a bit rough (personality wise) something just keeps telling me that Nisa and her would get along. Would this be fine?

Arry/Lilly- Children would be a soft spot for Nisa, giving her gentle nature, would it be fine if the children new her?

Kitanna- The same with your character Iari, she's so cute and think that Nisa could resist to lover her. *big grin*

Lommy- That girl (oops... this is getting fun *big smile*) Vigdis would grind with Nisa's gentle nature. Do you think that it would be alright to have a some resentment towards them (working class vs. aristocracy)?

Nali

Lommy- They would definately know each other and intrigue each other.

To your character Vigdis, I've been thinking about it and Nali might actually like Vigdis more than I thought. Maybe just some mere admiration for her work, but I don't know if Vigdis will accept this or be disgusted by it.

Durelin- I thinking that it might be possible that on some occasion your character, Korin, made an insult/joke at Nali and being the silent serious fellow he is, took it to heart and has had contempt for her since. Something along those line *smiles* if this sounds good to you that's fine, but I don't think that Nali would get along with Korin even if that didn't happen.

Folwren- Do you think that Nali and Keanan might get along? Being around the same age I thought that they might know eath other, those oldtimers kind of stick with each other.

All you players who have feisty dwarves- Nali is a thinker and might often listen to the debates that the other dwarves have, but rarely take part in them. So just a note that some of the dwarves, whose nature is to argue, might know him (and he know them).


Wow, my characters have a lot of friends! I might have to cut back on them before the game begins! *winks*

[Durelin]

Hmm, I guess Kor and Korin are a little purposeless...do you want me to give them a craft? I mean, they could easily be fine basic laborers. But mostly they're *here* simply for the adventure and because of pride for their people. Especially Korin. Kor is more of a tag along.

Originally Posted by Groin

I thinking that it might be possible that on some occasion your character, Korin, made an insult/joke at Nali and being the silent serious fellow he is, took it to heart and has had contempt for her since. Something along those line *smiles* if this sounds good to you that's fine, but I don't think that Nali would get along with Korin even if that didn't happen.

I think Korin would rub a lot of people the wrong way - probably she wouldn't get along with Nali or Nisa. Kor on the other hand will probably get along with everyone, because outwardly he is quite nice and polite and soft-spoken, though I am sure especially some of the warrior types might think he's a little odd. Nali might actually like him, though...we'll have to see I think.

I think we'll see as the game gets started what characters just seem to gravitate to others...but I agree with Folwren that at least all of them should know each other by face/name. It's also simpler that way for the game.

[Dimturiel]

I just realised I did not say what exactly Bain does as a craftsman. Well, I was thinking he might be a smith-working mostly with jewelry, but also with weapons from time to time. Also, I was thinking that the obvious people he is most aquainted with are those that have the same profession as his. I believe they were bound to have spent quite a lot of time together in the colony, especially at the beginning when they have probably been working together at all sorts of things...

[Kath]

Haha that would be absolutely fine Groin!

[Ilya]

Groin: Nisa's actually a few years older, but I can see them definitely knowing each other and Adela slipping her herbs and stuff on the sly or something.

[Thinlómien]

Just to clarify, yes, the Dwarves will probably know each other's faces at least. Also, no way do we have to know who's whose friend at this point. But everybody who thinks they'd feel better knowing their characters relations beforehand, feel free to make suggestions. It's just whichever way of working you prefer. I will probably ask for more friends/relations/rivals for my characters as the game progresses and inspiration strikes, and you others are encouraged to do that too...

Originally Posted by Groin

That military training struck me as strange, but not unlikely, that and her parents breaking up but that was about it.

Oh, but that was even more accidental. Dwarf women just always struck me as rather independent, and of course it was no way an official divorce of anything, if that eases your conservative mind, my friend...

And anyway, I predict it will be good to have one woman around who is not so young (not that she's old either...) and who has some military training...

Originally Posted by Groin

I think that it would be more likely for a certain level of animosity between the two of them. Vigdis you say likes masonry and turned books down a longtime ago, whereas books are Nali's pursuit. Also, Nali might not appreciate a girl (oops...) such as Vigdis, being a dwarf of high quality he's use to higher class women.

Sounds good. And PS. Nali may call Vigdis a girl since he's that old, but I don't promise she will take it kindly... *mischevious grin*

Originally Posted by Kath

Sounds like a plan Lommy. A bit of a friends when they meet but they don't really seek each other out thing?

Yep.

Originally Posted by Groin

Lommy- That girl (oops... this is getting fun *big smile*) Vigdis would grind with Nisa's gentle nature. Do you think that it would be alright to have a some resentment towards them (working class vs. aristocracy)?

Yesss! I think Vigdis would consider women like Nîsa pretty useless...

Originally Posted by Groin

To your character Vigdis, I've been thinking about it and Nali might actually like Vigdis more than I thought. Maybe just some mere admiration for her work, but I don't know if Vigdis will accept this or be disgusted by it.

Oh, sounds good - I will think about it how Vigdis thinks about him and his attitude...

Originally Posted by Durelin

Hmm, I guess Kor and Korin are a little purposeless...do you want me to give them a craft? I mean, they could easily be fine basic laborers.

They don't necessarily need to have one, but you should maybe think about whow they made their living back home etc...

And lastly, if the last-minute planning takes time, it's all my fault. :-)

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Dwarf women just always struck me as rather independent, and of course it was no way an official divorce of anything, if that eases your conservative mind, my friend...

What a picture you must have of conservatives.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Legate - I have no idea why I'm writing this as it's so obvious, but Ori and Óin are surely friends?

Of course. Indeed pretty unnecessary to even ask that

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Legate- Same thing as I told Lommy, although Oin might be Tror's best friend. Oin is obviosly more of a battle hardened type and Tror would depend on him greatly when in battle, ergo a relationship must have been formed if they are to work closely together.

The first part sounds good - although that doesn't necessarily mean that Óin considers Tror his best friend, because for certain, he knows at least Ori probably for lot longer and had gone through more and more dramatic situations with him (like being almost baked by a Dragon ). As for the battle thing, Óin is more of a "solo" type when it comes to fighting: he has this military experience and knows about tactics and sticking together, but he is not a "professional" warrior. It was just his "racial responsibility" to go to Azanulbizar when he was younger. Then, it is probable that in all the occassions when Tror and him fought together (i.e. here in Moria when they were chasing the Orcs out), he was together with him in a few battles, but Óin is not the one into big battles, but rather a member of a small group who flanks the people etc., where I would probably expect Tror to be the leader of the main wave. So, what do you think?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Oh, but that was even more accidental. Dwarf women just always struck me as rather independent, and of course it was no way an official divorce of anything, if that eases your conservative mind, my friend...

Well, I would have hoped you did not have any "official" divorce in mind in the first place - for that will sound really out-of-place. *incanonity police goes back again to its office*

Say what, I will re-read all the characters and will post another longer post (now this sounds like WW! Oh my!), now concerning the possible relations of my characters towards everybody.

And, by the way, I did not seem to see any answer, not from Groin, nor from anybody else: I take it that I should take Lóni, then?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I guess in general most of the relations would form really "on the run", during the game, when we'll see which characters appeal to whom etc. But at least now, as for any deeper relationships, for Óin (I have noted it also for myself, but half for you others, possibly only as some outline which may serve you for inspiration):

Trór - well, I already said that above. Most likely, Óin is going to regard Trór in the context of his memories, sort of identifying him unconsciously with Thráin or Thorin Oakenshield, the military leaders he knew (aside from Balin). He also sees him as a young leader who has the pespective to become a "Thorin of Moria" (or Thráin), if the colony continues to exist.

Nisa - As you also write, she probably knows Óin a bit better, and I think Óin finds her a kind and nice young girl, although he just thinks it and does not say anything much to appreciate her or such.

Náli - Óin counts both him and Lóni as "veterans" and I find it likely that THEY are of the "good old friends" type. So, I actually think this "buddy"-feeling is with those two, while Trór is a (perspective) youngster for Óin still. The more, all these explorations and things make it likely that Óin was somewhere just with Náli and Lóni several times, exploring some levels of Moria and perhaps making a discovery or two.

Frár - same as above with the veteran thing. I think they could know each other for a long time, like the types who meet with other friends around a... barrel of beer or something.

Kór&Kórin - actually, I am pretty convinced Óin likes their music and would like to hear them more, although he does not get to tell that to them usually, he admires them mainly because he is not such a good musician as many others are.

I also think that Óin would have some friendlier and more than just "I know about that one" attitude to Kénan (though maybe a bit more formal, like, sort of reserved, "two old gentlemen who are not much extrovert"?).

Say what you think, if you agree or disagree on something... and if anybody thinks of anything else, just tell me.

***

As for Onli, I am not particularly clear on all relations he has, but I am pretty positive that he was trying to make acquaintances with everybody around here. He surely was in more contact (on a business-basis, mostly) with:

Trór (trying to get on a friendly side with the high-ups), Náli (mapping carefully the progress of any of his new finds), Ori, Vigdis, Óin (same as with Náli), Buri, Lys (!!!), Vitr (!!!) - I think Onli was trying to exploit the family in the past, by the way - Bain, Gror (surely started to get all friendly with him immediately after he appeared, trying to get news about what's going on in Erebor), Dalin, Svior and Hepti.

Enough in contact, I believe, for them to make their opinion on him. He is this smooth-talk like people who stop you and try to sell you something, I hope you all get the picture. So not everybody must necessarily see through him, but I am convinced that there will be people - but that's rather on you to choose - who will dislike him (and some who could be simply annoyed with him, but not more perhaps?). Also, there may be somebody who has either problems or on the other hand, who likes his ferret. Óin, for one, is a bit annoyed with the animal popping up at him when he returns from some lonely journey to upper/lower levels.