Game Thread: TIG XCII - Disaster by the Lake

[Nogrod]

What was the rule on tied voting btw.?

[Loslote]

++Nog

Because I don't think his arguments have been very strong at all toDay, I think most of them have faulty reasoning which leads to faulty conclusions, and because I do not like having poor arguments used to make me look suspicious. To be perfectly fair, I'm not sure how much of this is my own bias, but I do honestly think he's acting suspicious as well.

EDIT: xed with everything since before Pitch's vote

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

If that's the price I have to pay for pointing out others' suspicious behaviour, then so be it. And I doubt the wolves are going to attack Bom thinking he's a gifted just because he's "behaving unusually" - they need more than that. So basically what I said matters not.


In this case I'd say it would've been appropriate because otherwise you're just throwing random suspicion towards the unfortunate people who happened to be around at the beginning.

I don't see how you can say possibly pointing out a gifted to the wolves "matters not" based on how you think the wolves are going to act. I also don't see what's so suspicious about saying you think someone's behavior merits suspicion, which is really all I got out of Lottie's post. Whereas your post basically says "I think Bom is gifted" which is almost always a bad thing to mention.

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What was the rule on tied voting btw.?

Tied vote. The person who reached the tie LAST will be lynched.

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Be known that Galadriel55 is a sneaking, backstabbing wretch! Let none sample her cooking!

I bet she says the same thing about you Nerwen.

Originally Posted by Nog

So even if I see what Greenie and some others say, I'm not going to let Bom slip by just for that being "normal" to him.

I find it more telling how Bom reacts when people accuse him based on goofy posts.

Originally Posted by Nog

If Galadriel were a gifted she wouldn't have then slipped that "I can actually participate a bit more are Nights" -thing. That would be far too reckless. But could she slip it as a wolf? Or is it just an ordo talking things that are not necessarily to the point regarding the game (as ordos have nothing to do by Night)?

I read this as an innocent statement saying she has no time during the Day phase right now. I think a lot of us fall into this category toDay.

In post #24 I like what Nog has to say about the after posts from Inzil and Lottie regarding Bom. I still feel their remarks about Bom were made in jest, but they backed away in seriousness when before things had been light Day 1 jargon.

Originally Posted by Bom

Lastly, Nerwen? Would you mind providing an explanation for why G55's vote is "backstabbing?" Perhaps you had agreed not to do wolf-on-wolf, or some such thing . . .

This is reading too much into an IC joke post for my taste.

Originally Posted by Pitch[/quote

Kit #12 supposes that both Zil & Lottie weren't serious because of smilies in their post. Why say that when nobody had yet questioned the whole matter? Wasn't it a bit early in the Day to be so concerned for peace in the village, while in the same breath complaining there was nothing going on?

It wasn't meant to defend or accuse them, but to state the fact that that was all that was happening at the time. I didn't want to disappear for 12 hours and have everyone wondering where I went.

Originally Posted by Bom's response to Pitch

True, but on most of the occasions when I've seen the phrase used, it's been in cases of treachery. It may have different connotations to others of course.

What kind of wolf openly accuses another one of backstabbing in public?

Originally Posted by Kath

G55, Kitanna and Bom should be the three wolves. One wolf says 'well we could start with silly list posts' but unfortunately they all three did it!

I so rarely get to do the silly list thing. I always show up too late and stuff has actually happened. How I relished the idea of doing it, only to have two more following immediately. I'm so sad. /lamenting sarcasm In seriousness, I wish I hadn't even bothered.

Originally Posted by Bom

I'm still suspicious of Nerwolf, though Wolfrod makes some good points about Wolf-zilla. I might vote for either of them (either of Nerwolf or Wolf-zilla, that is). Galadriwolf55 still doesn't seem that terribly suspicious to me, though that opinion is subject to change

Color me stupid, but who is Wolf-zilla? Godzilla's hairy cousin? Are you suspicious of Nerwen solely on her "backstabbing post"? And I'm reading fast and missing things, but when did Nog get on people's radars?

Originally Posted by Bom

And is there any problem with being suspicious of someone based on things another pointed out?

This was a response to Shasta. And this right here is why I fall to suspecting you. You get so very defensive when people question you and your reasonings. I've learned from the past not to jump on this defensive behavior on Day 1, but I have other reasons for suspecting you. I'm curious about this suspicions of Nerwen. She hasn't said anything but her IC post and a quick rebuttal. Please correct me if I'm wrong about that. Why is she your suspect? Why is Nogrod your suspect? Explanations please!

Originally Posted by Nog

An innocent fears everyone as an innocent doesn't know the roles of others. Thus an innocent can't give a free pass to anyone. An innocent can't afford to say "never mind that person".

This is an interesting point, not only in relation to Lottie, but in general. I don't have time to sit and pick apart Lottie's posts, especially the ones in question.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Nog, you're reaching. Lottie never said "never mind that person" but rather "never mind that particular point against that person" - which is something an innocent can afford to say.

This is the first thing I've seen that suggests Nog may be up to no good. I.E. putting words in Lottie's mouth to lean the lynching to her?

Originally Posted by Inzil

Like I said, I think Greenie's noticed a couple of things, and now it looks like he may be turning to my bandwaggon.

Bandwagon? As in he's trying to get one on you?

Inzil's vote for Nog seems like a piggyback on Greenie's suspicious. Aside from Nog, she's made the best case for a lynch candidate and it's not even that strong. (I don't expect any to be that strong toDAy though)

Greenie makes a decent point about Nog. If I had time to scrutinize I could judge for myself, however I find myself lamenting my time crisis over and over when there's nothing to be done about it. So I'm making my decision now, as best I can based on the little information I've gained in less than an hour.

And even now as I hit "refresh" thing are being said of note! Ah!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

What was the rule on tied voting btw.?

Last person to get the tying vote dies, I believe.

[Pitchwife]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

...unless they have been voiced over already... the wolves tend to read the thread at Night.

And I suppose they can also read the thread before it gets written?
Seriously, vote and go to bed.

[Aganzir]

Gal - Nerwen
Kath - Inzil
Inzil - Nog
Greenie - Nog 2 (xed with Zil's vote)
Shasta - Inzil 2
Pitch - Zil 3
Lottie - Nog 3

Left: Bom, Kit, Nog, Nerwen, sally

[Kitanna]

I desperately want to read Lottie and Nog, but there's no time.

++ Inzil

He jumped on Greenie's point about Nog so fast and that was just way too opportunistic, especially with Nog trying to build his own case for Inzil.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Loslote

++Nog

Because I don't think his arguments have been very strong at all toDay

Show me a strong argument from this Day1...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

And I suppose they can also read the thread before it gets written?
Seriously, vote and go to bed.

Ahaha Pitch gets a free pass because he's the funniest person ever! <3

I'm also liking Kit even though I only managed to skim her post.

Gal - Nerwen
Kath - Inzil
Inzil - Nog
Greenie - Nog 2 (xed with Zil's vote)
Shasta - Inzil 2
Pitch - Zil 3
Lottie - Nog 3
Kit - Inzil 4

Left: Agan, Bom, Nog, Nerwen, sally

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Show me a strong argument from this Day1...

A strong argument existed today? Shock and awe!

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Kitanna

This is the first thing I've seen that suggests Nog may be up to no good. I.E. putting words in Lottie's mouth to lean the lynching to her?

Greenie makes a decent point about Nog.

...by putting words into her mouth as well... but of the kind Lottie will like.

More wolvish than not.

[Aganzir]

++Inzil

[Nogrod]

++ Inziladun

[Aganzir]

And now to bed, Noggins!

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

...by putting words into her mouth as well... but of the kind Lottie will like.

Isn't twisting words and pointing fingers the true spirit of WW?

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Pitchwife

And I suppose they can also read the thread before it gets written?

We'll discuss this after the game...

[Bom Tombadillo]

ARGH no time. Everybody's posting at DL. ++Inzil it is.

EDIT: Apparently not strictly at DL. I somehow managed to completely miss several minutes of posts! How'd that happen?

[Boromir88]

Dead Line.

No More posting please. Once I double check votes, the role will be revealed quickly.

[Aganzir]

Btw Nog we're pathetic. Guess which two very busy people top the post count?

edit: Apologies, Uncle Boro!

[Boromir88]

"Nogrod's reaching." Greenie said above all the bickering and shouting. The villagers quieted knowing time was running out and they needed to decide on who to send to the gallows. They were determined to keep their heads. Reason and rationality will find the wolves amongst them. Or so the innocents hoped.

"Preposterous!" boomed Nogrod.

"Your arm has grown long indeed." observed Lottie.

"Let's stop with the metaphorical suspicions and get something more concrete." said Shasta. "I vote Inzil."

Inzil gave a sarcastic sigh. "Now there's a shocker. Concrete evidence. Obviously the furrier has to be the most furry. That's not at all metaphorical."

"Glad you agree." added Pitch. "That settles it then."

The villagers bound Inzil and led him up to the swinging gibbet. And there he hung lifeless. But Inzil grew no fangs or claws. He sprouted no new fur either.

"Well. Unless Inzil shaved to make those furry boots of his, I'd say he's not a wolf." chimed sally.

"Where have you been all day!" grumbled many of the Dale residents.

LIVING

Aganzir...Baker's wife.
Bom...Cobbler.
Galadriel55...Cook.
Greenie...Undertaker.
Kath...Baker.
Kitanna...Cooper.
Loslote...Candlestick Maker.
Nogrod...Wine-maker from Dorwiniondil.
Nerwen...Town crier.
Pitchwife...Shepherd.
Sally...most prestigious Musician and Poet of Lake-town.
Shasta...Notable miscreant.

DEAD

Boro...King's Secretary - Night 1
Inziladun...Furrier (Ordo) - Day 1

---

Wolves chatter and decide your kill.

Bard Hunt. Seer and Ranger send out your birdies.

Edit: No apology necessary Agan, I find that ironically amusing.

[Boromir88]

The wolves debated into the night and once they agreed on who would meet their end tonight, they set out while the village remained asleep.

"Do you feel that?" one asked.

"I do." concurred another. "And I don't like it much." What it was the wolves did not know, but it felt as if there were a great and powerful will coming down from the skies above. "Let's steer clear, whatever it is."

The wolves proceeded on to house of their chosen victim.

----

Morning had come, but it wasn't the rooster crows which awoke the town. They heard a pained wailing coming from the Baker's hovel.

Normally, the town could smell the delicious, fresh-baked rolls and pastries each day. But this morning, there was no smell of freshly made breads. Only a piercing cry. And out ran Agan, her gown was soaked red. The blood of the Baker.

LIVING

Aganzir...Baker's wife.
Bom...Cobbler.
Galadriel55...Cook.
Greenie...Undertaker.
Kitanna...Cooper.
Loslote...Candlestick Maker.
Nogrod...Wine-maker from Dorwiniondil.
Nerwen...Town crier.
Pitchwife...Shepherd.
Sally...most prestigious Musician and Poet of Lake-town.
Shasta...Notable miscreant.

DEAD

Boro...King's Secretary - Night 1
Inziladun...Furrier (Ordo) - Day 1
Kath...Baker (Ordo) - Night 2.

It's day 2. Kath the ordo is wolf-fodder.

[Kitanna]

Kath? She only had two posts.
Post # 33, Pressed for time, rereading
Post # 35

G55, Kitanna and Bom should be the three wolves. One wolf says 'well we could start with silly list posts' but unfortunately they all three did it!

Bom? It's Day 1. Pretend to be the cobbler if you want. As long as you're an innocent not a Gifted then if you end up dying it's protecting Gifteds. Shame for the village if silly behaviour ends up with us lynching an innocent over a wolf though.

G55 votes Nerwen. Well, clearly a random vote. Guess we'll have to hope we see more of her toMorrow.

Inzil's a bit aggressive. 'And you know this how?' to Nerwen, and something previously toward Bom I think.

Agan - kind of agree with her comment on G55 saying only around Nights. Was an odd thing to point out really. Could have just said 'oh no it turns out I'm not really around on the days that are Days', mentioning Nights at all is unnecessary. Could be a hint. But, G55 isn't going to be back toDay, so pass for now.

Lottie and Bom are both using kthxbai. Cobbler to wolf? Wolf to wolf? Totally random?

Nerwen also a bit aggressive, particularly towards Lottie.

Ooh Nog's catch on Inzil is interesting! If Inzil turns out to be a wolf there could be some good leads in there.

Pitch looks good. Or at least, lots of interesting comments. And made me read Agan's post: we are not in the same wolfpack ... suggesting that one of the two is in a wolf pack?

So,

++INZIL
Somewhat aggressive. Still considering Nerwen's 'back-stabbing' comment deeply suspicious despite pretty much everyone else considering it to be a reply to G55 voting for her the post before. If he forgot about G55 voting for her, then he only read half of the post he quoted by Shasta - in which Shasta mentions G55 voting for Nerwen ... this quote coming immediately after another mention of Nerwen's comment being suspicious.

That's it from me toDay.

So...she pretty much had something to say about everyone. Her top suspect was for the ill-fated Inzil though and she voted for him. Aside from seeing Inzil as aggressive she didn't make much of a case for anyone. That could well be why she was killed. I think the only person she didn't mention was Sally.

I wanted to take a closer look at Lottie, Nog, and Greenie today. There was quite a bit of back and forth around DL. Nog and Lottie appeared to dominate it, but Agan chimed in and Greenie made some points about Nog and his suspicions.

Lottie:
# 10: She threw out some theories about Bom. I didn't take it seriously at the time because it was ended in a joking matter. Having the chance to think it over, maybe the first part was a serious theory put forward. The second part was certainly a joke at the expense of Bom's avatar.
# 19: This is the "never mind then" post Nog and Greenie argued over.

I don't think I've played with him enough yet - I didn't realize this was standard Bom. Never mind, then.

She responds to Greenie saying this is normal Bom. Nog believes this isn't normal innocent behavior, but I've seen innocents and wolves pull this move. A simple misunderstanding can cause someone to backtrack. The never mind is the oddest part of her statement. It seems unnecessary to put that in, but it also seems like a convenient slip to jump on.
She also states she's done the same thing G55 did (random vote) as a guilty and an innocent, excuses G55 for the moment.
# 34: Responds to Nerwen's "how could you not know this is what Bom plays like, he always does this!" with "I haven't played in months!"

I didn't think it worthwhile to continue looking at it as somewhat suspicious.

I don't think Lottie she have backtracked so drastically. She hasn't played with Bom much and if this behavior is suspicious, then keep a watch on it.
# 37: Comment on G55's vote
# 39: States she's leaving she for awhile.
# 61: Argues with Nog about her backing off of her Bom theories. I read this as pretty sarcastic and angry.
# 65: Lottie just isn't happy here
Mostly she doesn't like the earlier cases against Inzil or Nog's suspicion of her, but isn't convinced enough to vote either.
# 68:

Usually I don't think of gifteds as trying to attract attention, and that's what I thought Bom was doing.

# 73: Continues to defend herself against Nog.
# 75: Responds to Agan about why a wolf would draw suspicion.
# 82: Votes Nog. Can't say I'm surprised. Admits some of this vote is personal bias at this point.

Looking at Lottie she certainly got worked up after Nog pointed out the "never mind, then". I think she slipped in her speech, whether sinister or not, I'm not sure yet. She backed off of her Bom theory when confronted that this is his regular style. But she did make valid points as to why she could believe him to be a wolf parading as a cobbler. Mostly she was agitated by Nog.

Nog is next...

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Kit

Kath?

My thoughts exactly. If you pointed a gun to my head and asked me why, I would say a traceless kill. I don't notice any particular gifted vibes comming from her.

But the next question then is, why did the wolves not choose someone who would point more in the wrong direction (leave a false trace)?

Am I being a tree stump and missing something obvious?


Anyways, some basic impressions from yesterDay:

Pitch: I didn’t locate any fur on him. Looks innocent enough to me.

Bom: is Bom. I didn’t expect anything other than silliness from him. Can’t say anything about his alignment, though.

Nerwen: hard to say anything about her just yet. But this game she doesn’t make me nervous or scare me like in previous games, though I try to keep in mind how deadly sharp she can be to either side.

Kit, Shasta, and Greenie are sensible, and hopefully innocent.

Nog: sometimes made neat points, but at other times he has been plain illogical. I don’t want to condemn him right away because of that, though; he might be an innocent who looks at things differently than I do, or he might be a wolf who left some holes in his persuasion, or a cobbler who is just messing with our heads and taking our attention off the real wolves. Currently I think the last two are more likely.

Lottie: sweet-tongued. Defensive. I understand her defensiveness, but I haven’t played enough with her to tell if her tone is normal. I guess it is, since no one commented on it before.

Agan: is confusing. Jokes are jokes, but by the end of Day 1 you do stop fooling around with obvious silly bluffing. What’s up with your wolf-packs?


And since a lot of you tried to take apart my previous post, all that I meant way that Days fall on my busy days and Nights fall on my less busy days. As Greenie put it, I was just complaining about my luck. I hope to make it up toDay.

And just to be on the same page as you guys, can you define a "bad vote"? Unreasoned? Bad for the village? Simply wrong because you's convinced X is innocent? Badly timed?

More comments to follow.

[Kitanna]

Nogrod:
# 20: Makes a point that as a wolf, saying he's the cobbler is a good place for Bom to hide. He's not letting Bom slip by for this.

If Galadriel were a gifted she wouldn't have then slipped that "I can actually participate a bit more are Nights" -thing. That would be far too reckless. But could she slip it as a wolf?

I feel like he's grasping at straws with this. Obviously Day 1 is mostly making weak cases as best you can, but this looks... opportunistic.
# 24: Mentions a bold team of Bom, G55, and I. Doesn't feel strongly about it, but leans toward at least one being a wolf.
He also mentions Zil and Lottie and how they backed off of Bom. He says Lottie is more suspicious. He spends lots of time poking Lottie, but I don't recall as much time spent on Zil, who he eventually voted for.
# 45: "I'm back, reading"
# 47: Makes his case against Lottie. He makes good points about the nature of an ordo and what's at stake. But in his Devil's Advocate paragraph he doesn't mention how much a wolf has at stake.

an innocent can't think "never mind" on anyone... and that betrays her.

Yes, you're right and that is a very big blunder for a wolf to make. That's why I'm not so sure about Lottie. Innocents lose are lynched for mistakes like "never mind, then", a wolf would know that and be extra careful, I think.
# 52: Talks about Zil and isn't sure about his "forgetting G55's vote". He can't seem to make up his mind about Zil and what he's said about multitaking, etc.
# 55: Argues with Greenie about what he thought Lottie meant.
# 59:

Also, I think I made it clear why I think Lottie looks suspicious. Greenie seems to have had no time or wish to comment on my explanation on that (#47). And what I said in #55 doesn't make Greenie look any better.

But seeing Inzil's eagerness to jump on what Greenie has been preparing looks not the less suspicious. Blah... the clock is ticking and I need to go to sleep...

# 67: Admits that he'd vote for Greenie if he didn't care about "the probabilities of who's actually going to get lynched". Responds to Lottie about her agreement with Greenie over what she meant.
# 76: It's all about Greenie and why she's treacherous.
# 81: Mod question
# 90: "Show me a strong argument"
# 93: Says Greenie puts words in Lottie's mouth in response to me saying that about him.
# 95: Zil vote

I see Nog poking at Lottie a lot. Maybe because she kept popping back up to defend herself. He voted for Zil and from what I can it was to save himself, but he also had suspicions of Zil early on. Nog speaks reason, he always does, and I can easily see his reasonings saving the village, but just as easily I can it destroying all of us. The only real suspicious thing I see with Nog is how he tries to make something out of nothing. The biggest example I can think of is his post about G55 slipping about about being able to play during Night. It is very opportunistic.

Greenie:
# 14: We can't deduce much from Bom. I actually misread this the first time I read it. She doesn't like G55's vote, but understands the situation.
# 48:

Quite honestly, I think you're reading too much into that comment. The way I saw it, she was just mentioning her bad luck concerning the Days - a thing a wolf would not "slip" since she wouldn't consider it bad luck at all.

Greenie and I apparently share a mind on this thought.

Originally Posted by Pitch
Anyway, thanks for telling the wolves she's not gifted!

That's actually a good point. Why point that out, Nog? Unless you're the cobbler and want to make sure the wolves don't miss it, that is.[/quote]
I'm not sure why Pitch and Greenie jumped on Nog for this. In fact it looks weirder to me that they bring this up. Like, how do you figure Nog is giving anything away? How do you know he knows G55 isn't gifted? That's one big ball of confusion for me.
# 49:

Nog, you're reaching. Lottie never said "never mind that person" but rather "never mind that particular point against that person" - which is something an innocent can afford to say.

Greenie puts words into Nog's mouth and Lottie's mouth in one sentence. I'm impressed.
# 54: Votes Nog, based on reasons already stated.

I'm so happy Greenie only posted four times. I'm so very sleepy. Ok, Greenie said a lot without saying a lot. She jumps on a comment about Nog from Pitch that was pretty bad for a suspicion, even by Day 1 standards. Then she twists what Lottie says by twisting what Nog said. I like her least of the three I've looked at so far.

Agan has talked a lot, but I can't honestly remember anything she's said and that's kind of scary to me.
But...my day started out weird when I dreamt of this village, except Anne Boleyn and Katherine of Aragon were in it and then it went downhill when I had to attend to my RL job. I should have been making barrels for you fine people! I set my alarm an hour earlier so I can get up and comment a little before work tomorrow.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Nog

I need to vote 2-3 hours before the DL

Haha. So much for that.

Originally Posted by Pitch

Not only at work but listening to online shows and playing Werewolf at the same time? Crime must be running rampant in Alabama.

But more seriously, I don’t know about Alabama, but it certainly is in Esgaroth. And it is our duty to stop it.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Clearly you haven't seen the state of her kitchen

Lucky you haven’t! If you look at the state of my room you'll know why I would never be asked to run anything in RL, let alone a kitchen when all the time something burns, boils over, goes bad... To give you some idea about that, the only things in my room that I constantly put away as a rule are scissors and pins. I once almost sat on one.

Ok……That was more that a bit random.

Originally Posted by Bom

Galadriwolf55 still doesn't seem that terribly suspicious to me, though that opinion is subject to change

How could you be suspicious or not suspicious about someone who isn’t there? This statement had me scratching my head.



Oh, and I think Wolf-zila is referring to Inzil. And he's a he, Bom.

Edit: xed with Kit

[Nerwen]

*rings handbell*

Hear ye, hear ye! Our most esteemed baker Kath has been foully murdered! And her bread ruined! From this Day forth, the village will be forced to depend on the inferior wares of so-called "cook" (and noted backstabber) Galadriel55. The griping agonies of food poisoning await us all! Let none rest until this most horrid crime has been avenged!

–Anyway, sorry for lack of participation yesterDay. Your itinerant Town Crier was on the road for most of it.

Originally Posted by Kitanna

Looking at Lottie she certainly got worked up after Nog pointed out the "never mind, then". I think she slipped in her speech, whether sinister or not, I'm not sure yet. She backed off of her Bom theory when confronted that this is his regular style. But she did make valid points as to why she could believe him to be a wolf parading as a cobbler.

Oh yes, I can remember when that used to be a routine wolf-tactic– but I gather what people are on about with Lottie isn't so much that she suspected Bom in the first place, as that she backed off instantly and completely when it was pointed out that he always acts suspiciously– which is hardly a good reason for *not* suspecting someone, either.

EDIT: I typed all this earlier, before the backstabber showed her face again, but then the page wouldn't load. Stupid internet.

[Loslote]

Just a note: I don't know how much time I'll be able to have toDay, since I (foolishly) spent far too long playing Civalization IV instead of studying earlier, I still have a hundred pages of Thusydides to read before DL tomorrow (coincidentally, DL happens to be exactly when my class is).

Also, after having a chance to cool down a bit, I'm less dead-set on lynching Nog, but I'm still far from happy about his reasoning and arguments yesterDay. I also feel like a Nog-Agan wolf team would be completely out of the question, which makes me feel a bit better about Agan. A Nog-Greenie pack, on the other hand, would almost make sense given the dynamic they ended up with yesterDay...but that's just speculation. YesterDay really doesn't offer anything more solid than that.

Kath seems to have accused just about everybody, and we can't even say that the "just about" narrows anything down, either, because the wolves could be either hiding among the people she didn't mention or hiding among the people she did. Either way, her death doesn't particularly incriminate anyone and mostly just seems to muddy the waters. The only thing we could maybe say is that is that the wolves felt threatened enough to kill her off early when there were other potential traceless kills, which could imply at least one experienced wolf...though that's not very helpful, I suppose.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by G55

My thoughts exactly. If you pointed a gun to my head and asked me why, I would say a traceless kill. I don't notice any particular gifted vibes comming from her.

But the next question then is, why did the wolves not choose someone who would point more in the wrong direction (leave a false trace)?

Well, there's barely such a thing as a real no-trace kill– because there's always that question of, "so why *didn't* they try to accomplish something more? Wasn't there anyone else who could be safely killed? And why not?" etc. In this case, though, with all the accusations and suspicions flying around yesterDay– well, some of that *must* have been innocent-on-innocent. So yes, I think it's actually quite odd.

Originally Posted by G55

And just to be on the same page as you guys, can you define a "bad vote"? Unreasoned? Bad for the village? Simply wrong because you's convinced X is innocent? Badly timed?

Any of those– and also one that looks opportunistic, or like the person is just copying someone else's suspicion. Or whatever.

EDIT:X'd with Lottie.

[Bom Tombadillo]

Okays, well it's late and I'm afraid so I won't be posting more tonight, but I'll try and get some reading in tomorrow and have an analysis up late toDay. Got that?

[satansaloser2005]

There once was a wee lass named Sally
Who found herself too tired to rally
A response to the thread
Far too full of regret
From the loss of sweet Boro, her ally



(Aka I'm too tired to post tonight. I'll be around a bit tomorrow, but the bulk of my posting will be in the last three hours or so of the Day. Please be patient. Thanks!)


*Note: Regret here having the meaning of sorrow, not guilt. I'll not wake up in the morning to people taking this post as some sort of admission or something.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Btw Nog we're pathetic. Guess which two very busy people top the post count?

Right... or should one consider it the other way around: if two busy people are the most active what does it tell about the others?

Anyway. ToDay I'm not able to hang around to the deadline as I have an early morning call tomorrow - and I have limited time in the evening as well. Sorry about that.



As I se this popping up once again, let me try to be clear with it:

Originally Posted by me

If Galadriel were a gifted she wouldn't have then slipped that "I can actually participate a bit more are Nights" -thing. That would be far too reckless. But could she slip it as a wolf? Or is it just an ordo talking things that are not necessarily to the point regarding the game (as ordos have nothing to do by Night)?

So I am reaching, opportunistic "straw-grasper" etc.?

That was post #20 of the game - of a game which basically consisted of banter. So please excuse my poor wits if I was not able to make a "strong argument" from those 19 banter-posts.

And it is not arguing G55 is a wolf but is just making the question concerning the odd thing she said. Why do you who cite that post always leave out the last sentence? Shouldn't that be called opportunistic?

Of course making a question points to something you wish others to consider (and thus there is an element of suspicion involved), but it is not making an argument or a case.

Anyway. From my latter posts which commented Galadriel you can see I was and am not pressing for an interpretation she is a wolf at the time being - so I find it odd I'm suspected more or less from trying to get her lynched.

Blah. I hoped to say more but the class is calling and I have to go. More later, hopefully something more constructive then.



PS. anyone willing to criticize others for not making strong enough arguments should produce at least one themselves before going critical...

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Nog

And to me that reads like "I'll drop the suspicion", not "I'm watching him closely but will dismiss this particualr suspicion".

Err - what's the difference?

Originally Posted by Agan

Why single out cobbler? Does she want to say, "No, see here, Bom is not the cobbler!!"
...
So how did it become about the cobbler? As I see it, Lottie originally also offered two other options! It looks like they're both reading too much into it: first Greenie grasps at a part of a sentence, then Lottie immediately backs off.
Weirdos.

Of Lottie's two other options, one was "wolf impersonating cobbler" - so I felt obliged to point out that Bom always looks like the cobbler anyway. Makes sense?

Anyhow, I need to do some reading and some thinking before posting anything more, these notes I already had from reading over yesterDay. Won't have a lot of time toDay due to having a book to read for a Uni paper and a ridiculously difficult exam coming up, but I'll do my best.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Somebody didn't like their bread, then? Huh. Don't look at me - I prefer apples myself anyway.

-snags one-

In any case, I'm going to read back over yesterday, but I'm still thinking hard about Agan.

[Bom Tombadillo]

Erg. I was going to post an analysis of Zil now that he (thank you G55) is a known innocent, but it ended up a mess. Mine always do.

Anyways, I'll go and read the thread a couple of times in between other stuff and see if my strangely muddled mind can provide some insight. So again, goodbye and I promise I'll actually have something interesting to say next time.

[Aganzir]

Here and how dare you kill my wife? This means war!

I am torn about Nogrod. He started in his usual way and I thought him innocent, and I have stubbornly refused to suspect him since just because so many others did. In my opinion, he's often surprisingly illogical for a philosophy teacher but that doesn't necessarily make him a wolf. Or then it does and I'm just so used to it that I keep ignoring it. Whatever.

Originally Posted by Gal

What’s up with your wolf-packs?

I told you. There are two.

I feel worse about Greenie after reading Kit's analysis. I don't exactly remember what I thought of her yesterday (apart from something like "she never sits right with me what should I do with her"), but now I get this feeling she was trying to corner Nog because she knows how stubbornly he can defend a point - which often makes him look bad in the end.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And her bread ruined! From this Day forth, the village will be forced to depend on the inferior wares of so-called "cook" (and noted backstabber) Galadriel55.

Excuse me? As if I couldn't bake bread just as well as my beloved late wife!

Originally Posted by Nog

if two busy people are the most active what does it tell about the others?

Dear Nog, you know it tells more about us than them. Not everyone is an obsessive no-life loudmouth.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Of Lottie's two other options, one was "wolf impersonating cobbler" - so I felt obliged to point out that Bom always looks like the cobbler anyway. Makes sense?

Kind of, but it still seems like reading too much. It's a very pre-emptive defence against a minor point which almost puts me in mind of a Greenie/Bom team.

[Pitchwife]

Why Kath, indeed? In her big list post, she wasn't very decided about anybody. The only thing there, as far as I see, that might look remotedly gifted-ish is her saying about me "Pitch looks good", which is a bit more decisive than what she said about the rest of us; could that have looked like a Seer-hint to the wolves? But then she immediately qualified it with an "At least...", and I don't know why I would have been a KathSeer's choice to dream N1 in the first place, so maybe not. Trailless kill seems more likely.

Originally Posted by Kit re Nog's #20

I'm not sure why Pitch and Greenie jumped on Nog for this. In fact it looks weirder to me that they bring this up. Like, how do you figure Nog is giving anything away? How do you know he knows G55 isn't gifted? That's one big ball of confusion for me.

To clear that up, I don't think innocents should speculate about a certain player's giftedness or non-giftedness while that player is alive - which is what Nog did, wondering about G55's alleged slip with Nights and Days; and giving reasons why a player is likely not gifted is almost as bad as pointing out signs of giftedness, because it helps the wolves narrow down their kill-choices, which is not an innocent's job. I don't see why that is so difficult to comprehend.

Btw Agan, I don't think your explanation that Nog did this "to protect an assumed gifted" holds. The best way for an ordo to protect the gifteds would be to act as a decoy, or if you can't think of a way to do that, the second-best way would be to keep mum about whatever makes you think a certain player might be gifted (or not), or explain it away as best you can without bringing the question of giftedness up at all.

I'm more or less ready to accept Nog's hair-splitting in the cases of G55 and Lottie as a busy player trying to make arguments on D1 (and, in my eyes, some linguistic overthinking), except for that one point, which I don't like. And I don't think that was a bad point for a suspicion at all.

That said, yesterDay's amount of discussing possible gifteds was far too much for my taste, and I'd rather we'd stop that, please.

Originally Posted by Lottie

I also feel like a Nog-Agan wolf team would be completely out of the question, which makes me feel a bit better about Agan. A Nog-Greenie pack, on the other hand, would almost make sense given the dynamic they ended up with yesterDay...

Why do you think that?

Originally Posted by Nog

Right... or should one consider it the other way around: if two busy people are the most active what does it tell about the others?

That the rest of us spend our days twiddling our thumbs? Spare the rolleyes and come off the high horse, please.

Originally Posted by Nog

Anyway. From my latter posts which commented Galadriel you can see I was and am not pressing for an interpretation she is a wolf at the time being - so I find it odd I'm suspected more or less from trying to get her lynched.

That is not at all what I suspected you for. See above.

(x-ed with Agan)

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Agan

Kind of, but it still seems like reading too much. It's a very pre-emptive defence against a minor point which almost puts me in mind of a Greenie/Bom team.

Now who's reading too much? Please show me a major point that early into Day 1. As it was, that was the only on-topic thing that seemed even remotely worth commenting.


EDIT: x-ed with Pitch

[A Little Green]

Aganzir - Needs to stop deliberately confusing people with a stupid inside joke about two wolf packs. Not funny and not fair. Other than that - she's kind of very sharp and very off at the same time. Either the most innocent or the most evil of the lot, but I haven't yet decided which.

Bom - Has slipped under my radar, I have no recollection of who he's suspected or what points he's made.

Galadriel55 - Likewise sleeping under my reindeer, I do remember the rushed Nerwen vote which could really be anything, and the useless argument later yesterDay about her comment on having more time during the Night phase. So no idea.

Kitanna - Looks fine this far.

Loslote - Looks more innocent than not. There's been a lot of debate (by myself, among others) about her backing off Bom early yesterDay. I still stand where I did - I don't see anything particularly furry about that.

Nogrod - Needs to calm down a notch. I haven't changed my mind since yesterDay, I still find him fluffy. (Whoops, meant to write "furry"!! What would Freud say? ) He criticized me for sticking to my suspicion of him based on his grasping at straws with Lottie even after he explained it, but the thing is, the explanation didn't convince me so here we are.

Nerwen - No idea as yet.

Pitchwife - I keep flip-flopping on him, too - I agree with him on many points, but he seems a bit touchy, don't have a better word for it.

Sally - Too little to go on.

Shasta - Liking what I've seen this far, though I know how good he is at fooling me completely.