Feedback and Suggestion Box

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Originally Posted by Guinevere

...I usually find that the very things I wanted to say have already been said (and much better than I could say them.) ...)

Very well said! I too find that if I get far enough through a discussion the points I wished to make have already been mentioned. But having said that, be it known that I for one am trying to catch up. (Had an RPG post taking up my time and am a little freer at the moment.) I have not posted as yet, not that I would write something beautifully insightful or even particularly orderly, but the intention to add is there.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I've posted a poll on the Books forum - please vote there!

I welcome all catchers-up! Your personal thoughts, impressions, and opinions are always unique and worth reading, even when you feel that almost all has been said. Keep on posting!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Looks like meat's back on the menu! - oops, I mean, we now begin the discussion of the first chapter of Book 5, RotK. Please feel free to jump in and join us even if you haven't caught up with all of the previous discussions.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The new thread for the next chapter discussion, normally scheduled to begin this coming Monday, will be opened several days later. I'm away from home, with only the sketchiest of internet access this week, and no RotK with me. Consider it an additional break for those who want to continue catching up!

[davem]

Just wondering if Esty could let us know when we'll be back to weekly discussions? Being a bit bored earlier I worked out that if we want to finish by the end of this year we'll have to switch back around 'The Houses of Healing' at the latest (this assumes that we end up spending three weeks on 'Pelennor Fields' due to Esty being away at Birmingham from the 11th -15th of August at least & probably not able to open the discussion that week).

The only problem I can see is that (assuming we feel bound by the deadline of finishing by the end of the year, that is) we'll end up only having a week to discuss some very important chapters, like Mount Doom, Scouring of the Shire, Grey Havens, Aragorn & Arwen, which may actually sustain two weeks worth of discussion better than some of the current ones - the present one seems to have died on its feet

All of which rambling is just to ask if we have any kind of definite timescale for the change back? Not wanting to nag, but I've noticed that a number of those who asked for the slowdown in order to be able to join in haven't actually joined in very much, if at all....

Is anyone else ready to get back onto a weekly schedule soon - or at the end of August/beginning of September at the latest, or is the general feeling that we should just continue on at this slower pace till the end, however long that takes us to finish?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Happy to oblige! I would have no problem getting weekly discussions started during these summer weeks, but as a majority of those interested asked for a slowdown over the summer, I will stay with that decision until late August. Then I'd like to return to a weekly schedule in order to finish by the end of the year.

Here's the schedule I've planned:

July 3 - Bk. 5, Ch. 3 (The Muster of Rohan) - current discussion
July 17 - Ch. 4 (The Siege of Gondor)
July 31 - Ch. 5 (The Ride of the Rohirrim)
Aug. 7 - Ch. 6 (The Battle of the Pelennor Fields) - moved up a week due to my absence on Aug. 14
Aug. 21 - Ch. 7 (The Pyre of Denethor)
Aug. 28 - Ch. 8 (The Houses of Healing)
Sept. 4 - Ch. 9 (The Last Debate)
Sept. 11 - Ch. 10 (The Black Gate Opens)
Sept. 18 - Book 6, Ch. 1 (The Tower of Cirith Ungol)
Sept. 25 - Ch. 2 (The Land of Shadow)
Oct. 2 - Ch. 3 (Mount Doom)
Oct. 9 - Ch. 4 (The Field of Cormallen)
Oct. 16 - Ch. 5 (The Steward and the King)
Oct. 23 - Ch. 6 (Many Partings)
Oct. 30 - Ch. 7 (Homeward Bound)
Nov. 6 - Ch. 8 (The Scouring of the Shire)
Nov. 13 - Ch. 9 (The Grey Havens)
following weeks: Appendices

This schedule gives us a bit of leeway for delays due to unplanned circumstances and gets us finished with the LotR discussions before Christmas. How much time we will have for the Appendices remains to be seen then; I haven't yet planned how to divide those into weekly chunks.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

This schedule gives us a bit of leeway for delays due to unplanned circumstances and gets us finished with the LotR discussions before Christmas. How much time we will have for the Appendices remains to be seen then; I haven't yet planned how to divide those into weekly chunks.

The Appendices are something I've thought about for a while. App. A could be split up into Numenor/SA, Arnor, Gondor, the Stewards. Rohan & the Dwarves as well as Aragorn & Arwen. I think we could spend a week (at least) on App. B & one on App. F - which would make 9 weeks there. As to the Calendars & the writing systems - beyond me. I have to admit, but maybe others would want to spend time on them.

[drigel]

I am happy to hear that the appendixes are being included. Much room for discussion on at least A, B and F!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Summer break is over, and we're now back to weekly discussion threads. You're welcome to jump in with "The Houses of Healing" if you like, or to catch up with previous chapter discussions.

[The Perky Ent]

Will Chapter by Chapter continue on to The Hobbit?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

That's what I've planned next. Those discussions should begin in January.

[davem]

Originally Posted by The Perky Ent

Will Chapter by Chapter continue on to The Hobbit?

I'd say that depends on how many people want it to. CbC seems to have slowed down a lot, with very few posts compared to the early chapters.

I have to admit I'm feeling a bit like Frodo & Sam now, plodding on to the end - we still have, what, 10 chapters, plus the Appendices to go.

Will enough of us want to go straight on to TH or shall we have a break?

[The Perky Ent]

Your call. But I've got my Sting sword and my arkenstone ready for when you do I think I'll start doing the Chapter by Chapters, as y'all are getting to some good ones

[davem]

Well, we've now begun discussing The Last Debate, but it seems that discussion is still continuing on The Houses of Healing. It seems that people have gotten into the habit of taking two weeks per chapter.

As I said, part of me wants to get to the end, but another part of me is feeling 'pressured'. If we are to take in the Appendices as well, & do them justice, it seems to me that we would have to devote at least a month to Appendix A, so will we have time to do everything by the end of the year? Does everyone want to finish by the end of this year? If we divided App. A up into

1 Numenorean Kings & Eriador, Arnor & the Heirs of Isildur
2 Gondor & the Heirs of Anarion
3 Aragorn & Arwen
4 The House of Eorl & Durin's Folk

Then did App B & C together (along with the unpublished Epilogue to LotR from vol 9 of HoMe if anyone wants to).

& finally App F (just because I can't see much mileage in Apps D&E) we're talking either 17 or 32 weeks depending on whether we take one or two weeks. The two week option would mean finishing around the end of April next year.

Opinions?

Personally, I feel 'torn in two'....

[Lalwendë]

I reckon a slow down to a two week pattern would be good, at least for the present. It seems a lot of members are starting new terms at school/college and this might understandably be taking up a lot of time. But if we go back to two weeks and then return to weekly threads, would this make the 'pattern' on CbC confused?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I would hesitate to change and slow down to every two weeks again - during the summer months, experience showed that there wasn't much more posting on a slower schedule. However, I do realize that the Appendices may take longer than I'd reckoned, and I am planning a holiday break at the end of the year - at least three weeks, I should imagine.

I'm actually pleased that people are still posting on previous threads - it shows that they care about those chapters and have something they want to say about them.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

This week's thread finishes Book 5 - and so far, it's slow going. Perhaps a week's break would be good before starting Book 6...

[Aiwendil]

The Perky Ent wrote:

Will Chapter by Chapter continue on to The Hobbit?

And Davem:

I'd say that depends on how many people want it to. CbC seems to have slowed down a lot, with very few posts compared to the early chapters.

I'm sorry to say that I'm one of those people who posted a lot on the earlier chapters but have more or less disappeared in the past few months. One of the reasons has simply been that once I got out of the habit of posting on every chapter each week, it was hard to get back into the habit. Of course, I can't speak for anyone else, but I think that if we were to start a discussion of The Hobbit after LotR, my interest would be rekindled and the novelty of the discussion would be enough to get me back into the habit of posting every week.

[davem]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

This week's thread finishes Book 5 - and so far, it's slow going. Perhaps a week's break would be good before starting Book 6...

It depends, I suppose, whether anyone is interested in joining in at all. For the last chapter (The Last debate) there were only five posts & both Lalwende & I contributed two each!

Maybe as Aiwendil says a TH CbC would inspire a lot of new contributors but I'm not sure how many of them would stay the course, given what we've seen with recent chapter discussions on LotR.

To be honest I'm not sure I'd want to go straight on to TH after completing LotR - maybe if there was a break of a couple of months before we started, but probably not otherwise. I might leave that task to others.

Is anyone intending to get involved in the rest of the LotR chapter discussions on a regular basis from now on? I'm going to see the whole thing through if (as Bilbo put it) 'I'm spared'.

[Son of Númenor]

I'm sorry to say that I'm one of those people who posted a lot on the earlier chapters but have more or less disappeared in the past few months. One of the reasons has simply been that once I got out of the habit of posting on every chapter each week, it was hard to get back into the habit. Of course, I can't speak for anyone else, but I think that if we were to start a discussion of The Hobbit after LotR, my interest would be rekindled and the novelty of the discussion would be enough to get me back into the habit of posting every week.

I made (admittedly minor) contributions to the first few chapters, but after a few weeks' respite I too found myself unable to dive back in. I was actually holding out hope that we could do a Silm reading after this, but TH would be fun too. I agree with davem that a few weeks' or even months' break might do some good.

[Encaitare]

I really enjoy reading CbC, even if I don't post for most chapters. A CbC for the Hobbit and the Silm would be very cool, but I agree that there ought to be a break in between the end of LotR and whatever's next.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I am delaying the start of the next chapter discussion to give those who want to catch up on the last couple of chapters in Book 5 a chance to post there. We will begin the discussions on Book 6 on September 25.

This is a good time for those who have not participated to join us for the final spurt! You'll want to discuss the events at Mt. Doom, in Minas Tirth, the Scouring of the Shire, and the Grey Havens with us, I hope!

[The Perky Ent]

No! It seems I didn't get the memo. I just started getting into the CbC threads. I guess I'll have to jump in for the end. I'm interested to find out if the CbC we're doing is a one time sort of thing, or more of an annual thing to be done each year (or whatever time period works)?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

As far as I'm concerned, this is a one time event. After all, the threads remain open for those who wish to post on past discussions. And since people are anticipating CbC discussions of The Hobbit and the Silmarillion (perhaps even other works), it will take years to get back to the LotR. We (or whoever is still around then) will cross that bridge when the time comes - or may even have to build the bridge first!

[davem]

As we're nearly at the end of the story proper, I'm wondering what the plans are for dealing with the Appendices?

Are we going to do each of them, or miss some out (I'm thinking specifically of D&E - does anyone want to spend a week on Calendars or Writing & Pronunciation?)

We could tackle 'Aragorn & Arwen' first, then 'Numenor/Arnor' from Appendix A, followed by Gondor/The Stewards next & then Rohan/Durin's Folk.

Appendices B (C???) & F could be done together in the final week. So, five weeks in all.

Or does anyone have a better idea?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The new thread will be up and ready for posting on Monday. (A weekend trip caused a delay in my usual schedule.)

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Originally Posted by Estelyn Telcontar

The new thread will be up and ready for posting on Monday. (A weekend trip caused a delay in my usual schedule.)

Criminey! Some people can be just SO irresponsible and disorganised!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The last chapter discussion has begun, and it's time to plan the discussion of the Appendices. In post # 94 davem made some good suggestions on dividing up the sections of Appendix A; I plan to make separate threads for each of those divisions, though I'm not sure that we need to spend a week on each section. I'd like to start two threads a week when the material we cover is not too extensive. We may just have to play that by ear and see how we come along.

[davem]

I have to admit now to wanting to get to the end of the project. I think Esty's idea is a good one. Out of Appendix A I think the most interesting things (apart, of course, from Aragorn & Arwen) are the encounter with the Lossoth, the battle with the Witch King, the story of Helm & the battle of Azanulbizar. Appendix B does contain the 'Later events involving the members of the Fellowship', & there's some interesting stuff in Appendix F, but I think maybe 3 or 4 weeks in total may be enough time & we could finish by the end of the year - especially as the threads will remain open permanently.

I'd still like to know if anyone wants to discuss Appendices D & E, though - I tend to skim them, but some may have interesting things to say on the Calendars & the writing systems.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Originally Posted by davem

I'd still like to know if anyone wants to discuss Appendices D & E...

I will post threads for each of those appendices and see if anyone has something to say. I do want to give everyone the opportunity to contribute if they want to; however, I will definitely not hold my breath and wait a week if nothing is forthcoming!

I would like to see the project finished by the end of December - as the threads remain open, some may wish to catch up during the holiday break. Others may be glad to finish their posts before Christmas.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Since there's not much discussion on the first Appendix thread, I've posted the second one halfway through the week. This one has more "meat" in it, so I hope for a good discussion! Unless something changes drastically, I plan to continue this rate of two threads a week so as to finish the Appendices before the end of the year.

[Bêthberry]

*gasp* Estelyn Telcontar's alternate personality, Merisuewyniel of the Splintered Ent, breaks out and sets a time limit, something she has been unable to achieve on her Entishprises! Is this Parodia raising her head amidst the hallowed dark ivory tower of Books? Will we next see a Post by Post discussion of The Revenge of the Entish Bow, only to be hurried biweekly through to a deconstruction of The Reunification of the Entish Bow?

Be wery, wery afwaid, Downers. Next she could bring out other means of prodding and prognostication for those who aren't posting and thereby inspiring that classic, Paddle to the Seat of Parody Moot .

[davem]

Is it just me?...

First of all, let me say I was determined to post on each of the Appendices, to have contributed to each of the CbC discussions....but...

Does anyone else feel a sense of 'anti-climax' as far as discussing the Appendices goes. I put something together for the first part of Appendix A, & I've read the second part in preparation for a post, but though I came up with odd things - the pride of the Gondorians leading them from one disaster to another, the fact that in the main it read like a history text, so that when Saruman or the White Council was mentioned it felt a bit out of place, etc, - I just find my heart isn't in the appendices.

I feel like I've finished, that I just want to say 'Shut the book now dad, I don't want to read anymore.' that I can't face posting another thing on CbC (waits for cheering to die down before continuing.......
............
...........
..........)

Ok, so, is it just me, or has anyone else hit the Appendices & just felt 'I can't be bothered'?

The reason I ask is, is it something about the style of the Appendices - 'The Sil' style of it: lots of names & dates, great battles & high tragedy, etc, etc - or to put it another way: no Hobbits? Or maybe that's not it, maybe its that I'm just emotionally drained by the story itself. Whatever the reason, I feel I just can't summon the will or energy to do it.

Tolkien stated their purpose was to provide background, both the movie & the radio series end with Sam's return to Bag End & leave it there. Aren't the Appendices actually just a 'poor man's Silmarillion'? (As I think Heren implied in his post on the Appendix thread - sorry if I've misrepresented your position H-I.

Anyway, is it me, or is it the Appendices?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by davem

Is it just me?...

Originally Posted by davem

Ok, so, is it just me, or has anyone else hit the Appendices & just felt 'I can't be bothered'?

I think it's just you...

For myself, it was the opposite. With most of the chapters, I would dive in after several other posters had, and THEN contribute something. In the case of Book VI, I think I have still to post on close to half the chapters.

But with the Appendices, I'm finding them easier to just jump into, offer some unprompted observations, and not feel the need to wait for inspiration to strike, because the inspiration is striking a lot faster.

Of course, I'm a factoid monkey, so I could just be wierd...

[davem]

Maybe we should get Fordim to start a poll

[drigel]

I had hopes, but it's nature lends little to converse, more to observe. Which, for me, makes good reading, others maybe not so much. I did like the Lewis reference concerning Forochel, davem.

[davem]

Originally Posted by drigel

I had hopes, but it's nature lends little to converse, more to observe. Which, for me, makes good reading, others maybe not so much. I did like the Lewis reference concerning Forochel, davem.

Oh, I enjoyed reading the Appendices - but as background. I think I feel the same as you. Its finding something to discuss about them. I think maybe they're too 'dense', too compacted. Maybe what it is, is I find there's so much there, so compressed, that 'it would take a week's answer or none at all' to discuss each paragraph. I think I feel overwhelmed by them & don't know where to start. After 18 months of working through the book, maybe I'm just tired? Or maybe its that so many characters are introduced, do something, & then die & we're onto someone else - we never get emotionally involved with any of them. Yet many of their stories are tragedies, & I feel I'm not engaged enough by them.

[drigel]

too many honeydo's from Lal wearing you out?

Possibly throw the threads out quicker and move on...? If someone wants to post on a prior chapter they can and the other posters get the email, right?

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I'm going at the pace of two threads a week for the Appendices - that's fast enough. I hope that this week's section, "The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen", will have lots of contributions!

This is like a chapter of the book to me, more interesting and emotional than the rest of the Appendices.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I'm putting up separate threads for "The House of Eorl" and "Durin's Folk" - that will keep the discussion more focused and less confusing. The rest of the Appendices threads will be going up rather quickly within the next week. Please don't feel hurried or harried - there's plenty of time for discussion, but I know I will have less time the closer we get to Christmas and would like to have this project finished early.