The Fellowship of the Fourth Age (Part 1): A New Beginning Discussion Thread

[Folwren]

I want Athwen to speak rather passionately about having mercy on the orcs, remember.

[Tevildo]

This is all good to me. I'd kind of like to leave it open whether Azhar is in the pit or at the top with Grask (assuming Grask is at the top). I'll just see how the story unfolds.

Would anyone mind if I handle the girl orc character at least for this scene? I think she's a NPC.

[Nogrod]

As I went back to find out who the orcs actually are to help me writing the next posts I thought of reminding you others of them as well as the research has now been done anyway.

So there are ten male orcs in the pit right now. Three of them are Uruks: Makdush (Child), Illak and Kurrak. Seven are "regular orcs": Ishkur (Regin), Gwerr (Nogrod), Colagar, Zuhut, Griwzan + two orcs with no names yet (or then I have missed the post where they have been named).

Outside somewhere there are the four females: Zagra and Mazhg (Undómë), Ungolt (Regin) and one unnamed (the girl, that is...). And of course the male-child Grask (Firefoot).

I think you could well take the orc-girl Tevildo. Give her a name as well...

[Firefoot]

Wow, this RPG seems to have gotten more attention in the last week that I was gone than in the entire previous month! Nice to see things moving along.

I agree with Nogrod, Tevildo, you can go ahead and take over the female child Orc.

As far as the plotline goes, it seems that right now, without the influencing factor of the females and children, the side advocating letting the male Orcs live would probably win out eventually - so the appearance of the females and children will not be so much the deciding factor as the way to convince those who are arguing strongly for killing the males. That's how it seems to me, anyway.

Now, Grask's typical way of dealing with situations is to stay unobtrusive and hope things work out for the better without him becoming involved. He won't do anything so impetuous as run out into the midst of the Men unless it looks strongly as if the males will be killed - as in, they're at sword point. This doesn't look particularly likely with the direction the plot is heading right now.

On the other hand, I could see the females maybe showing themselves (perhaps telling the female child to stay hidden 'just in case'?) - this would take the focus off the children and allow them to get into some trouble. Additionally, if the male orcs burst out of the pit to protect their women, it would show a more 'human' side to the Orcs. Somewhere in here it would be useful if they moved away from the pit a bit so that the children are unnoticed.

In the meantime, the children (as Grask watches... he still hasn't come out of hiding) get into trouble in the pit. He comes out to see what's going on, realizes the trouble and gets help...

OR... when Grask sees the women go out, maybe he finally gets up the nerve to actually approach Azhar. (Are Azhar and Kwell the only human children we're working with?) If the female child orc is hidden, he could show her to Azhar (and Kwell)... otherwise, they could just wander off together to leave the adults to work it out. If it goes this way (and I think this is more interesting), I think it would make more sense if they were all down in the pit, and then maybe Grask was the only one able to make it out rather than just having him stay at the top.

Thoughts?

[Nogrod]

When the male orcs make a run (to the females, to run away, whatever) there will be three ropes left that are attached to the gaging and hang down to the pit. So it will be both easy and fascinating for the children to go down with the help of the ropes...

Btw. my last post on orcs (in the thread in five minutes) shows that Gwerr has a misunderstanding of their overall situation and that might make the orcs to act more aggressively than they would otherwise have done at least in the beginning... I think it's still possible that when they get all up they might understand the situation better before they charge... and thence wait.

But just to build up some suspense I've decided to make the situation look gloomier to the orcs for the time being.

[Child of the 7th Age]

(Are Azhar and Kwell the only human children we're working with?)

Some of our early battle scenes suggest there were quite a few human children in the group. Rôg mentions taking 4 or 5 older children over to the side to show them how to use pointed sticks as weapons. All of the human children except the older Kwell and Azhar are NPC's. Grwell was the older child that Aiwendil appointed to be in charge of the others. Azhar also had several scenes with seven-year old twins Lisel and Liriel and their younger brother Tom, who was a real imp! Perhaps we could use some of those as NPCs? I don't know what kind of numbers people were thinking of, but maybe a group of 4-5 trapped in the pit?

Nogrod - I like Gwerr's misunderstanding. It's very realistic. Words would have been flying a mile a minute up above. The orcs could undoubtedly speak the common tongue, but it would not have been their native speech.

[Folwren]

Child's answer about the number of children sound right. 4 or 5 is fine. Quite honestly, I would expect a lot of the kids would be tired and not necessarily up to exploring and getting themselves half drowned.

-- Folwren

[Tevildo]

OK, my save is filled. I tried to answer Hadith...to say that the King would be more than willing to help but there are real practical problems that prevent that. I got my geography stuff out of page 92 of Fonstead's atlas. Secondly, I've tried to give a lead in to the female orcs. Dorran said the orcs should die but that he might reconsider if he understood what they were doing out there on the plain. Conceivably, if any of the female orcs heard this, they might be willing to come forward and try to explain to save their lives.

Could we do this? Have a vote.....and the vote is death. But then one or more female orcs comes out of the bushes to talk. I'll put up a save for Azhar to go off with the kids once the sentence of death is given. She doesn't want them to see what will happen.....

If you like this, who wants to do the post where the vote is death? It could be from the perspective of any character...one who likes it, one who doesn't or one who has mixed feelings. (Even from the perspective of an orc!)

P.S. It's vaguely possible that Ellessar's troops could arrive at the end and help us out of a jam if those reinforcements show up after we killed the others. A nice eucatastrophe or whatever they call it....

[Brinniel]

Okay, my disappearance was a long one...sorry about that. But I finally caught up on my reading.

Anyways, I'd really like to put a post up soon, but I'm not quite sure how soon that will be since I have varied internet access for awhile, plus my brain is still trying to get back in the program and into character mode... I'll see if I can get something written this week, even if it's short.

FYI, Shae will most definitely be voting for death to the orcs. Though she may be more quiet, she feels just as strongly about this issue as Khamir does.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Brinniel - Glad to see you and am looking forward to your post.

****************

I will be gone July 11-17 to help my mother sort out her living arrangements. Please feel free to go ahead with the vote and, if you get that far, use my characters as needed. Aiwendil and Lindir will vote against death.

[Nogrod]

Hoping to see you back soon Child!

For those of you wondering the all-cognisant author of my last post, that is due to the post being constructed by Firefoot and me together... I have just combined our dialogue and the suggestions for the stances in it to a post.

And please Firefoot, if there is anything I've interpreted badly or something then let me know...

It's interesting how much fun it is to write dialogues & interactions between people who really are not ready to make any small-talk... like the most reserved Johari and the most confused Hadith... Like the proverbial Finns they are!

Fun indeed!

PS. Foley, if Athwen wishes to speak passionately for the orcs shouldn't she come forwards now?

[Durelin]

Wow, I have a number of posts to read. I'll catch up ASAP, and see if it's proper to have Khamir rage some more...otherwise I'll get Adnan and Vror into the mix.

Brinniel - Let me know if maybe Khamir and Shae to share some 'thoughts' each other, hehe. Just a possibility, particularly maybe if you think she won't be so into telling everyone exactly how she feels as Khamir does? No rush, though. Glad life is a little less crazy for you!

Originally Posted by Firefoot

As far as the plotline goes, it seems that right now, without the influencing factor of the females and children, the side advocating letting the male Orcs live would probably win out eventually - so the appearance of the females and children will not be so much the deciding factor as the way to convince those who are arguing strongly for killing the males. That's how it seems to me, anyway.

I think the problem is that, naturally, it's only been from the perspective of certain characters. That's what RPing is. The big picture, though, is very different. I mean, mostly those speaking up are either the people from Gondor or children, who really don't represent the whole. It seems like a question of demographics almost to me, hehe. Even though I think there are a number of children among the slaves -- well, first off there's nothing to say all the children will want the orcs spared at all.

In my opinion, I think the majority of the slaves, regardless of gender or age, will feel that they should be killed. They have no reason to feel morally obligated to protect *all life* like that. I don't want to get personal opinions involved, but I will say that (yes, personally), I'd look at someone who was a slave in the sort of conditions they were and who felt any great amount of sympathy for the orcs and though I would think their ability to show compassion extremely admirable, I'd also think they are a little crazy.

Particularly if I were also a slave who had experienced the same sort of life (not just isolated events or anything, but living in Mordor enslaved) I would think them pretty crazy, hehe, for perhaps lack of a better word. That's just to put it in perspective, not to cause debate, so sorry for getting personal things involved.

Anyway…I guess it does depend on perspective, but I think that there are a number of factors to consider that really at least to me make it pretty certain that the majority are going to go for putting the orcs to death. Just thinking of the world they live in and have lived in…their worldview and their view on ‘morality’ and what have you is going to be pretty different (if not vastly different) from ours.

Sorry for the lengthy rant. I hope at least some of that made sense. I also hope I don’t seem nasty or anything: that’s just my view, just some thoughts, and I’m not claiming it to be the *final word* or anything, hehe.

Tevildo – I’d love to do a post from Adnan’s perspective about when the actual decision is made, if that seems appropriate when the time comes and if no one minds me doing it. Obviously part of it will be whoever gets to it first, hehe, but… At any rate, I think giving everyone a little more time with just the ‘debate’ (which could mean for some characters just considering it to themselves), because…well, at least I’m finding it so interesting to consider as my characters. Specifically I hope Brinniel will have the chance to give us Shae’s viewpoint. (No, no pressure, I promise!)

[Firefoot]

That makes sense. I'll wait and see what happens, then, before I decide how Grask will make his appearance.

So are we ready to call for a vote? If so, I could do it later today or tomorrow - it's the sort of thing Johari would do; she dislikes that the "interlopers" seem to have all the say...

I'm going to be having rather sketchy internet access the rest of the month, just to let you all know... Next week I'm gone M-F (I'm hopeful of at least some internet access, though), and then July 27-Aug 1.

[Durelin]

I'd like to wait a few more days because there is so much to the dynamic of the debate, but you have real time constraints coming up, Firefoot, and I think others probably do, too. That seems to be how the summer works...everyone's in and out.

I don't know what kind of pace we want to try and keep up, much less what pace we'll be able to keep up...

I know I want to get at least one post up before the vote, but if someone wants to plow on ahead and do a post about the vote themselves, feel free. Otherwise I'll be glad to do that, too (as I said in my previous post), whenever the time is right.

If someone wants to just call for the vote and get moving towards that, also feel free to do that, just let me know and I'll at least get a save up. My post will be pretty general I think, so there's no need to wait for it.

Brinniel - Once again, if you have some things in mind, just say the word. Even if you like the idea of a little interaction between Khamir and Shae we could perhaps work it out in one post if things are moving ahead. (Sorry if I'm sounding pushy! I just know it can be hard getting back into things, particularly if there's talk of wrapping a section up to move on...and/or I'm just particularly annoying today.)

Basically I don't want to slow this game down at all, but I also don't want to force it ahead as long as there's plenty to do with the present situation...so I guess that's why I sound pretty wishy-washy and torn...because I am and all that...heh.

[Firefoot]

Okay, I'll hold off. (I'm not calling dibs on the vote or anything - I just thought I'd offer.) I have a hard time judging the pacing of this game... it slows down, then shoots forward, and sometimes stuff gets planned ages ahead of when it actually happens...

[Nogrod]

I do agree with Dury that we probably should not make the voting yet as only a few have spoken... even though I'm very eager to continue as well as my days of having a lot of time in my hands are getting fewer and fewer...

But that means just more posting.

[Brinniel]

Okay, I put up a save because that should push me to get this post written up sooner than later.

I'm going in for a very minor surgery in the morning (wisdom teeth), so I don't think I'll be able to write anything for another couple days when I'm not so loopy.

[Durelin]

Agh...yes, I'll probably have to get those taken care of soon(ish)... It may not be major, but take all the time you need to recover!

[Nogrod]

Where are the female orcs? Or the other male orcs?

And are there anyone else to voice their minds but Brinn/Shae?

I could - or Dury could write something for Beloan.

Let's not wait for emptiness - but let's wait for at least Brinn who has said she will post...

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

PS. Foley, if Athwen wishes to speak passionately for the orcs shouldn't she come forwards now?

Probably - but I can't. I'm still at camp and won't be home and able to post until Saturday! I'm so sorry.

-- Folwren

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Probably - but I can't. I'm still at camp and won't be home and able to post until Saturday! I'm so sorry.

Don't be sorry... we all seem to have our RL-duties and the storyline is getting forwards quite slowly indeed.., - But if Dury won't write anything soon I will post for Beloan to make the things move at least a bit more forwards - and where are the other orcs? Regin, Child...?

[Folwren]

I put up a save and will fill it once Brinniel fills hers.

-- Folwren

[Tevildo]

I also have a save up. I'll definitely post for Azhar. I may or may not post for Dorran depending on what's said before.

Sits and waits.....

[Nogrod]

Brinn, Foley, Tevildo!

I hope you take account to what Beloan has said and fit your posts accordingly (the silence before he opened his mouth and such)... so when "filling your save" indeed move them after my post on Beloan if possible... and possibly react also to what he has said as well... (even that surely is no requirement - just look at how people discuss in the real world... )

Yes these saves are a bit problematic when things are getting on this slowly. But this was about my last chance in a couple of weeks to write anything here and I just couldn't wait untill you filled your saves... Sorry.

[Folwren]

Understandable. I moved my save, but will still wait for Brinniel. In fact...I may as well remove my save altogether and just wait. I think I'll do that.

-- Foley

[Brinniel]

So, here's the deal...

Now that I've recovered from the whole wisdom teeth ordeal, my parents are repainting and shortly recarpeting the only room where I have internet access, which unfortunately, limits my computer time a great deal. I apologise for making you all wait even longer, but there is no way I can write anything under these conditions until the remodeling is completed (which should be in a few days).

Sorry if this is an incovenience to anyone...

[Folwren]

Are you going to be able to fill your save anytime soon, Brin, or should I not wait?

-- Folwren

[Durelin]

Apologies, once again, not that I necessarily deserve forgiveness. ><

I think I'm going to go ahead and bring things to a vote soon (unless Nogrod did so in his post; have yet to read it); I will at least make a post from Adnan or Vror and perhaps they will voice their own position and concerns.....

I say never wait for a save -- posts can always be placed anywhere (in other people's posts) by our wonderful mods, so if someone comes back with a post that may or may not fit anymore where the save is, it can be placed somewhere else.

I guess unfortunately sometimes a person will have to adjust a post, but...well, once you've got a post there adjusting usually isn't too bad I don't think.... I hope Brinniel won't have that problem at all, though.

Anyway...yeah, I've got some motivation back and I've read the Harry Potter book so I can be in contact with the outside world and use the internet without fear...

[Brinniel]

Okay, I'm back and planning to read the new posts, then write something up today.

Sorry for the wait...

[Nogrod]

I will be away for a week and after that only able to hang around a few days before disappearing for another week.

Use my characters if you think it fits. I'm pretty lenient with it.

Have fun! I will have fun as well...

[Brinniel]

Save filled.

It's a bit shorter than what I usually write, but I think it says enough. Durelin, I did add an interaction between her and Khamir, however brief it may be.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I am writing this from a hotel in Michigan. I've flown back and forth several times to try and help my mom. (Things are ok here, but she needs practical help with a a number of things.) We've found a place and are making arrangements for her to move in mid September. My kids and I are starting to box things up. I will be back home later next week and will try to get something up for the story! It seems as if the summer has been a little crazy for a number of us.....

[Nogrod]

Good to hear that everything's allright Child... well, "alright" being a relative term.

But like I said the last time I'm on my way to a summercamp tomorrow and will be back in a week just to start the school-season (the first days will be pretty rough). But I hope to turn back to this in 1½-2 weeks with at least some effort. I do have a few larger projects in the beginning of the season but it should ease a bit when September comes.

[Folwren]

Well.............Athwen's spoken. I am tempted to revise and re-write, and I may, too, but it's there, so things can move on without worrying about me. If I have a chance and if I edit it again, I'll let you all know.

Tevildo, I used Dorran there at the end. If you think he'd act differently towards her, then go ahead and let me know how you'd like me to write it. I wasn't sure quite what to do just then. Just let me know if it's alright or if it isn't.

-- Folwren

[Durelin]

Well, that post is finally up. Finally.

A couple of things:

Tevildo - I can edit and leave it open for a response from Dorran before Aiwendil shuts everyone up.

Child - I used Aiwendil and Lindir very briefly, I hope it's alright. I can edit however you'd like.

[Folwren]

Wow. I'm glad I know you like Athwen, Durelin, 'cause Khamir sure doesn't.

Now...she didn't make that much of a mistake calling Shae a girl, did she? Shae's only in her early twenties at most, isn't she?

-- Foley

[Durelin]

Oh, Khamir just didn't like her tone with the 'girl' thing...and I'm pretty sure he wouldn't want to think of her as just a girl... I dunno - but no, I didn't see it as a mistake.

And yeah, sorry...he certainly has his opinions...

[Firefoot]

Well, Grask is about ready to make his move. First, I think, the male Orcs need to be moved out of the pit, because a) it needs to be free for the kids and b) Grask would be more likely to act seeing them about to die rather than just knowing it in his head - especially if it was Ishkur who was set to die first, who Grask feels a special sort of loyalty towards.

Someone else can write that part or I will, if no one jumps on it... but Grask is still just an observer until he actually comes out.

[Folwren]

Yes, he most certainly does have his opinion. lol! I was getting ready for bed yesterday after reading your post and I couldn't help but think....

"Brainless? Spineless?" said I to myself, "She is not so reputed! Athwen's not spineless. After stitching them up all night, they're a pack of grateful people now aren't they?"

I had to keep reminding myself - "Athwen didn't hear those words...She doesn't know that's what he was thinking...besides, she's older than you and not like you, she won't fire up at the insult..."

You're post was obviously stirring in one quarter.

Edit By the way - it would be awesome to see a response from Dorrran, Tevildo.

-- Folwren

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Folwren

Now...she didn't make that much of a mistake calling Shae a girl, did she? Shae's only in her early twenties at most, isn't she?

Shae is twenty-five, and nowhere near being a girl in her opinion. Of course, Athwen is quite a bit older, right? So, it's not too strange to have her see Shae as a girl...

Anyways, don't expect any kinder thoughts from Shae. Any words that may hint to her being weak is the worst of insults in Shae's book. If Khamir hadn't come to her defense first, who knows what would've happened...