Password

[Huinesoron]

I do keep coming back and staring at this, hoping for some new insight.

#8: "Short mass arm chore in a muddle" sounds like we either need to be mixing synonyms for the four words, or 'short mass' (M or W?) with synonyms for arm and chore. The straight clue is something to do with walls...

Oh. My failing here was not checking the names. There's two named 'walls' in Middle-earth - the cliff in Beleriand and the wall about the Pelennor - and I'd got them as Andram and Ramdal. But Ramdal is a part of Andram... the one in Gondor is Arm Mas Chore... sorry, I mean RAMMAS ECHOR. Guessing the password letter is the E ('second half').

Which means I was once again overcomplicating things by assuming synonyms when they weren't needed. ^_^ So perhaps #1 is just a scrambling of most of 'kayak'? But I can't find an answer in that.

New page:

Originally Posted by G55

1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. RAMMAS ECHOR: Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.


Indeed! I think you'll find a lot of the clues are this way. You're also right about kayak - well, almost.

[Huinesoron]

#2: D is 500 in Roman numerals, so 'No D or G' is a possible translation of the first half; mixed up, you find GONDOR.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

#2: D is 500 in Roman numerals, so 'No D or G' is a possible translation of the first half; mixed up, you find GONDOR.

hS

Nope. You are again taking unnecessary steps, you don't need to find specific numbers. You do need a specific note, but it's just to remove a letter, and you'll know which one to remove.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Nope. You are again taking unnecessary steps, you don't need to find specific numbers. You do need a specific note, but it's just to remove a letter, and you'll know which one to remove.

Ummm. NONUMBER minus B gives NUMENOR, I think?

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Ummm. NONUMBER minus B gives NUMENOR, I think?

Yes, precisely. ^.^

Any thoughts about the password?


1. In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. NUMENOR: No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. RAMMAS ECHOR: Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.

[Pervinca Took]

Encircled?

But I'm sure Huey would have got that, and he's done nearly all the work. I relinquish all rights to the next password.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Encircled?

But I'm sure Huey would have got that, and he's done nearly all the work. I relinquish all rights to the next password.

Oh, hey, that makes sense! I was still at the 'the last three are probably vowels maybe?' level of solving, so I will happily pass the next password back to you.

Does this make #7 LAVA?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Oh, hey, that makes sense! I was still at the 'the last three are probably vowels maybe?' level of solving, so I will happily pass the next password back to you.

Does this make #7 LAVA?

hS

And if it's lava, can clues encircle as well as being encircled?

The lava *nearly* encircled Frodo and Sam.

Ohhhhh ... (facepalms self).

ISENGARD is an anagram of 'read sign.'

[Galadriel55]

1. E In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. NUMENOR: No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. ISENGARD: Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. LAVA: In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. RAMMAS ECHOR: Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.




Yes and yes and yes! I ended up including both encircled and encircling things in order to get good letters. And that is why I was not happy to learn that Dor FiG is not synonymous with Tol Galen, an island "encircled" by the river. So I again apologize for that clue being included on incorrect assumptions.

The 5th clue is a bit randomly textual, but look:

Then all the hosts of Angband swarmed against them, and they bridged the stream with their dead, and encircled the remnant of Hithlum as a gathering tide about a rock.

One more to go!

[Pervinca Took]

Is number one EKKAIA - or something like that? I think it means 'Encircling Seas' or something, from when Middle-earth was flat?

Ah, yes. It's not just that it sounds like most of kayak. The end of kayak becomes its beginning, to give us KK.

Ah, no! Beginning of the word END. The K's end up together because the kayak is overturned.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is number one EKKAIA - or something like that? I think it means 'Encircling Seas' or something, from when Middle-earth was flat?

Ah, yes. It's not just that it sounds like most of kayak. The end of kayak becomes its beginning, to give us KK.

Ah, no! Beginning of the word END. The K's end up together because the kayak is overturned.

Yes! Take the beginning of E(ND), and overturn an almost-kayak.

1. EKKAIA: In it you might sail a kayak, almost, overturned after the beginning of the end.
2. NUMENOR: No number, no note, just a messed up kingdom.
3. CARAS GALADHON: In a forest, cars glad with a one and a one and an endless honk.
4. ISENGARD: Read, sign, move around, tower over the valley.
5. REMNANT OF HITHLUM: Remainder of the northmen? In the fen.
6. CRISSAEGRIM: See hear, rise as grim as the shaken mountains.
7. LAVA: In the heart of the dark land, all you need is love! No, not love: l ---.
8. RAMMAS ECHOR: Short mass arm chore in a muddle. Take the second half of the wall.
9. DOR FIRN-I-GUINAR [Tol Galen]: Green land, after the resurrection.


And now over to... Pervinca?

[Pervinca Took]

That was quite a password, Galadriel! And sterling clue-solving from Huey.

I don't *think* this one's been done before:

1. Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
2. Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
3. Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
4. Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
5. It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of.

[Huinesoron]

Bravo, Pervinca - I'd never have gotten that last one. And bravo G55 for an excellent password!

For the new one, #5 immediately makes me think TOME (emote backwards minus a note).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
2. Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
3. Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
4. Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of.

[Huinesoron]

Well, in #4 'one story' contains 'stone', which could be a trinket... but the remaining letters make 'Roy', who I don't recall from the books.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

For 4, you need a synonym of 'story.'

[Huinesoron]

#3:

Red fell the dew in RAMMAS ECHOR? MA + MA + S + ... well, I have no idea what 'Rocher' anagrams to, but it seems like it easily could! (Do sheep still say "maaaaaa" these days, or have they all switched over to "baaaaa"?)

Alterantely 'sheep' could be 'ewe', but that would need an answer with two Wublewoos.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

1. Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
2. Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
RAMMAS ECHOR: Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
4. Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of.

Two RAMs, an S, and ECHO without the Bunnymen.

[Galadriel55]

This whole time I was convinced that rabbit-folk were hobbits and was very very confused.

Equally confused about the rest of the clues, but working with #2 I thought of "war" and "or" individually, and it just came to me now that they combine to ARROW, which is a tool.

[Pervinca Took]

1. Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
ARROW: Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
RAMMAS ECHOR: Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
4. Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of.

Indeed!

[Galadriel55]

Is the password CARNE? The colour red, connecting the Red Arrow, Red Book, and the red dew on the Rammas Echor?

...making #4 NARYA, from yarn + a.

[Pervinca Took]

C: Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
ARROW: Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
RAMMAS ECHOR: Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
NARYA: Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of. (The Red Book)

Yes and yes!

[Galadriel55]

No idea for #1, but if it's something that grows, perhaps CARNIMIRIE?

[Pervinca Took]

CARNIMIRIE: Two pronouns, two liquids and the flicks? Shake it up and see it grow!
ARROW: Tool of mingled conflict, alternatively.
RAMMAS ECHOR: Two sheep, a sibilant, and a man who’s lost the rabbit-folk – all mingles here, where significant dew was noted.
NARYA: Around one story you’ll find a trinket.
TOME: It would make anyone emote, and backwards - no need to note it! At least, not the famous one I’m thinking of. (The Red Book)

I + I + R + R + CINEMA.

Red rowanberries.

It's a wrap!

Over to you.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I + I + R + R + CINEMA.

Thanks! Can you remind me again how R is a liquid? I know it's used in cryptic clues, but I can never remember why. L I understand, because (l) indicates liquid state in chemistry/physics. But why R?



1. Theme goes here.
2. One sin: imperfect after a year in the capital.
3. Middle of the starry fortress on the river.
4. Endless lust, moan in turmoil on the hill.
5. The second of two-coloured animal coat, disoriented in the sun.
6. Water shell? One becomes none, fifth becomes one, in confusion face the west.
7. The moon stirs one noteless light.
8. Step up, and Norse god can shake the tower.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

Thanks! Can you remind me again how R is a liquid? I know it's used in cryptic clues, but I can never remember why. L I understand, because (l) indicates liquid state in chemistry/physics. But why R?

I think it's a linguistics thing? I know L and R are closely related (hence why Japanese speakers blend the two), but I don't know why 'liquid'.

On to the password!

#4: lus + noma, flip it backwards to get AMON SUL?

#3: 'starry fortress on the river' just screams 'Osgiliath' (it's the literal translation!). Geographically, in the middle is the Great Bridge, bearing the Dome of Stars and associated Tower, but, um...

... if Weathertop and Osgiliath are both in there, there's a certain theme suggesting itself...

... is the password PALANTIRI? With #3 literally being OSGILIATH?

That would make #1 either PALANTIR or PALANTIRI itself.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

L and R are called liquids, because they roll off the tongue.

P and B are plosives

D and T are dental plosives

Hard C and G are velar consonants

etc.

[Galadriel55]

Hui, you are on a roll! The only one I would nitpick is #1, because making the clue identical to the password is a bit, well, cheating. The theme is ever so slightly more refined than just Palantiri, because there are terms that could have been included but were not.


1. P Theme goes here.
2. A One sin: imperfect after a year in the capital.
3. OSGILIATH: Middle of the starry fortress on the river.
4. AMON SUL: Endless lust, moan in turmoil on the hill.
5. N The second of two-coloured animal coat, disoriented in the sun.
6. T Water shell? One becomes none, fifth becomes one, in confusion face the west.
7. I The moon stirs one noteless light.
8. R Step up, and Norse god can shake the tower.

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

L and R are called liquids, because they roll off the tongue.

Ohhh! Thank you.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

The only one I would nitpick is #1, because making the clue identical to the password is a bit, well, cheating.

I mean, I thought so, but I didn't like to say...

#7: I (one) + li[g]ht = ITHIL, as in Minas Ithil?

#8: Thor can [falls over; mixes up letters] pardon me, ORTH ANC, stepped one letter in?

hS

[Galadriel55]

1. P Theme goes here.
2. A One sin: imperfect after a year in the capital.
3. OSGILIATH: Middle of the starry fortress on the river.
4. AMON SUL: Endless lust, moan in turmoil on the hill.
5. N The second of two-coloured animal coat, disoriented in the sun.
6. T Water shell? One becomes none, fifth becomes one, in confusion face the west.
7. ITHIL: The moon stirs one noteless light.
8. ORTHANC: Step up, and Norse god can shake the tower.

[Pervinca Took]

Is A Avallone - venal for the sin, (it's a kind of sin), A for one? Not sure about the year.

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is A Avallone - venal for the sin, (it's a kind of sin), A for one? Not sure about the year.

'Fraid not.

[Huinesoron]

Oh! That "A for one" pointed me in the right direction: annum ("per annum") + 'a sin' scrambled = ANNUMINAS, original home of the stone that later wound up at Fornost (and after that went for a swim).

Is P something like PALANTIR LOCATIONS? Or Palantiri of Middle-earth, if the Avallone stone is conspicuously left out?

hS

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Oh! That "A for one" pointed me in the right direction: annum ("per annum") + 'a sin' scrambled = ANNUMINAS, original home of the stone that later wound up at Fornost (and after that went for a swim).

Is P something like PALANTIR LOCATIONS? Or Palantiri of Middle-earth, if the Avallone stone is conspicuously left out?

hS

Yes!


1. PLACES OF THE PALANTIRS: Theme goes here.
2. ANNUMINAS: One sin: imperfect after a year in the capital.
3. OSGILIATH: Middle of the starry fortress on the river.
4. AMON SUL: Endless lust, moan in turmoil on the hill.
5. N The second of two-coloured animal coat, disoriented in the sun.
6. T Water shell? One becomes none, fifth becomes one, in confusion face the west.
7. ITHIL: The moon stirs one noteless light.
8. ORTHANC: Step up, and Norse god can shake the tower.

[Pervinca Took]

Could T be TOL ERESSEA?

Well, er ... there is SEA in it ....

[Galadriel55]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Could T be TOL ERESSEA?

Well, er ... there is SEA in it ....

Not that either. Stick to Middle-earth.

[Pervinca Took]

One of the seven was in Tol Eressea, though, wasn't it? But was it previously associated with someone else?

(I suspect I would fail Technology *and* History at the University of Imladris).

[Huinesoron]

I spent much of last night puzzling over T. "face the west" suggests the White Towers, but I couldn't get anything to fit the clue.

Technically I still can't, but if the question mark means "approximately", then "woter shill" is an anagram of TOWER HILLS.

... ohhh, and I've just this second got the numerology part. A (letter #1) > O ('zero'), E (letter #5) > I (Roman numeral).

For N: 'the second of two' suggests letter #2 of word #2, so MINAS ANOR? 'the sun' gives Anor, and... maybe 'minks' for coloured animal coats? Or else the whole thing is an anagram for something like 'dyed feather boa' or something, I dunno.

Pervinca, I think there were seven stones in Middle-earth, and one (master of them all) which never left Eressea. The stone in the Tower Hills was locked to look west to it, and one of that pair was maybe called the Elendil-stone? Or I may have made the last part up...

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I thought of Tower Hills, but couldn't find any elements.