Werewolf LIII: The Republic

[Boromir88]

I would like the record to show Rune's strong statement and jump to send me to a "dark abyss," I'll let everyone make of it what they will. But I told tp my traps weren't done. I think I got one.

[the phantom]

Fea has got to be loving all this action.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I am.

[Boromir88]

This is all for you, my ladies.

[Ilya]

Bless the magical power of the restart.

The Reprehensible Representatives
Mormegil
Lommy
Green
Shasta

The Reprobates in the Running
Boromir88
Kath
Nog

The Unseemly Undecideds
Gil
Nerwen
Boro
Phantom
Kath
Gwath

Many precincts yet to report in, it seems. Let's not send anyone into the abyss just yet, y'all.

Edit: Thanks for the oversight, Brinn.

[Boromir88]

I really enjoy you're reporting Ilya. If you're a wolf, I would have to congradulate you on the fine play.

[Brinniel]

Ilya, Noggie has received one vote as well.

[Boromir88]

Oh and Ilya it was Kath who voted for Nogrod, so she has decided.

[Boromir88]

If I were a rep, I would vote (to lynch) Rune first, and morm second...so that's clear too, for any still undecided' as it stands currently. I'm aware things can change easily in 24 hours...well in this game more like 30 minutes.

[Nerwen]

Well, looking at that line-up I'll vote

++Kath.

I don't think she's a wolf, and she's the most neutral of those who received a single vote.

EDIT: x'd with Boro.
EDIT2: added highlight to vote.

[satansaloser2005]

Originally Posted by Rune Son of Bjarne

Here you go Morm, now send Boromir to the dark abyss that awaits him.

++MormeGeil for Representative

And that's why I voted for Green. Heh I figured Morm would be a rep either way, and I would quite like to see what Greenie does toDay.

Originally Posted by the phantom

Well, then Sally can explain it to me next time we visit. I already have too much info to process... Time Lords, planets, pepper shakers, multiple bodies, but still the same guy, and yet called by a different number, and something about two hearts... I'm lost.

*pats you on the head* It's okay. We'll just have to sit down and watch the dern show. Then you'll understand. *laughs maniacally as she force feeds phantom Doctor Who canon*


EDIT: x'd with a host, as was talking to an X of my own. Heh, I made a funny. *goes off to headTARDIS herself*

[Brinniel]

Nerwen, you need to highlight your vote to make it count..

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

If I were a rep, I would vote (to lynch) Rune first, and morm second...

*raises eyebrow*

Oh, you think they're both wolves, do you?

[Boromir88]

Brinn, watcha think about Rune and morm?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Nerwen, you need to highlight your vote to make it count..

Thanks for reminding me. I've fixed it.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Actually, there is a huge difference. And if you had ever seen the show, you would know.

Thank you. I was just going to point out that the distinction is, in fact, imperative. It's his name, not his title.


Today I am voting for:

++Boromir88

He's reasonable, he's fair, and I don't get nasty crawling feelings when I read his posts. Also, several of the other Reps are folks who expressed distrust of Boro earlier (I think?), and I don't want to see him go just yet. Hopefully the Rep power will help keep him around.

EDIT: Crossed with a whole bunch of people. Tons.

[Boromir88]

Oh, you think they're both wolves, do you?~Nerwen

You don't? They seem very assured now that I'm a wolf. Even wishing me to a dark abyss, you don't find that suspicious? Now, I'm not saying I can't be suspected, I realize I have been very insane today, I'm demented, I admitted it, but you got to wonder how they can be so confident...don't you?

[mormegil]

I just got back from a bit of family time and I've just skimmed from page 25 on and it seems that Boro is intent on brow-beating anybody who disagrees or suspects him.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

You don't? They seem very assured now that I'm a wolf.

I do not speak for Rune, but yes I am confident in my guess and my gut feeling about you, certain, no I'm not certain, but nothing you have done has eased my tension about you Boro. In fact, most things you are doing make me believe all the more you are a wolf.

[the phantom]

Something unexpected came up and I must leave. I must choose a Rep quickly!

Remember, I came into today wanting Nog, but at this point I feel forced to go a different direction, for I'm not certain I can trust him not to stab me with my vote.

Kath is fine as well, but I have more of an idea on where Boro stands voting-wise.

And so-

++Boro for Rep

[Boromir88]

I just got back from a bit of family time and I've just skimmed from page 25 on and it seems that Boro is intent on brow-beating anybody who disagrees or suspects him.~morm

Sweating a little bit because I got two of you now? I said at the begining 4 days of analyzing has gotten me nowhere and I'm scrapping everything to start anew.

But you're in a dilemma aren't you. See you lynch me you still won't find the seer, and when I'm proven innocent you're as good as gone the next day, anyway. You're fighting a losing battle.

[Boromir88]

Well in that case...

++Nogrod for Rep

I've told him before I need more people to keep me in line; Nogrod's the type to do it. He's my voice of reason.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

You don't? They seem very assured now that I'm a wolf. Even wishing me to a dark abyss, you don't find that suspicious?

Yes, I do, actually. That's what I meant.

[Boromir88]

Yes, I do, actually. That's what I meant.~Nerwen

My mistake.

But anyway, I assure you my case on both of them will be coming. Within the next 24 hour period.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Sally

*pats you on the head* It's okay. We'll just have to sit down and watch the dern show. Then you'll understand. *laughs maniacally as she force feeds phantom Doctor Who canon*

Oh yes, you must do that. Chain him to a chair and force him to watch every episode from both the old and new series. Then he'll know just as much about Doctor Who as Hookbill.

(Btw, I just finished watching an episode of Doctor Who now...featuring the 4th Doctor. )

Originally Posted by Boromir

Brinn, watcha think about Rune and morm?

Hmmm....that's a good question.

I'm not so sure about Rune. He makes some rather bold statements I think, but I don't know whether that points to innocence or guilt.

morm is a bit creepy....he actually reminds me slightly of you from the first half of my WW game (and for those who weren't in that game, Boro was a wolf). Simply because of how he manages to slide from Day to Day so easily without suspicion. He's definitely someone to keep an eye on.

EDIT: X-ed since #1015

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I should just briefly mention that I'm currently rather gleeful.

I love this village.

[mormegil]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

morm is a bit creepy....he actually reminds me slightly of you from the first half of my WW game (and for those who weren't in that game, Boro was a wolf). Simply because of how he manages to slide from Day to Day so easily without suspicion. He's definitely someone to keep an eye on.

I found this logic hilarious, he's not very suspicious therefore he must be suspcious

And Boro you claim that I sound so assured of myself and think that is a reason to suspect me and yet here you are acting more assured than all. You continually apply standards to others that you seem to give yourself an exemption on.

[Brinniel]

The reps are...

Mormegil 2
Lommy 2
Green 2
Shasta 2
Noggie 2
Boromir 3
Kath 2

I'm not sure I'm very comfortable with Boro being the most influential rep considering he's the one I trust the least...

[Boromir88]

And Boro you claim that I sound so assured of myself and think that is a reason to suspect me and yet here you are acting more assured than all. You continually apply standards to others that you seem to give yourself an exemption on.~morm

I'm assured of my innocence, therefor anyone assured of my guilt, I'm highly suspicious of.

I wouldn't say I'm really "assured," more like I'm fine with biting the bullet, eating a sock, breaking a toaster over my head, whatever, if I'm wrong (that is if you are indeed innocent).

I don't expect you or Rune to admit to falling into the trap, but like I said you're in a dilemma right now. Because once I'm proven innocent, you have no more cover, no one to point to, you're gone and the wolves will still have the seer out there.

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

(Btw, I just finished watching an episode of Doctor Who now...featuring the 4th Doctor. )

GANGSTA.

[mormegil]

Well let me make my intentions fairly clear that I am voting for Boromir. I think the fact that he has 3 votes is frightening and I hope to garner enough support to be able to overcome that.

[Ilya]

I think the fact that he has 3 votes is frightening

I wouldn't go that far, morm, as most of the reps seem to distrust him rather than not, and the third vote doesn't give him too much more weight. If he had four, he'd be able to cancel the votes of 2 reps, and that would be much more distressing. Still, I wish more people had voted to even things out.

[the phantom]

The votes-

morm for Lommy
Green for morm
Lommy for Shasta
Kath for Nog
Shasta for Lommy (2)
Nogrod for Kath
Brin for Shasta (2)
The KA for Green
Sally for Green (2)
Rune for morm (2)
Ilya for Boro
Nerwen for Kath (2)
Gwath for Boro (2)
tp for Boro (3)
Boro for Nog (2)

The Reps:

Boro- 3
Lommy- 2
Shasta- 2
Green- 2
morm- 2
Kath- 2
Nog- 2

[the phantom]

A full three day Rep list...

Brin +++ Agan/Kath/Shasta
Boro +++ tp/Agan/Nog
Gil +++++ none/none/none
Green ++ Brin/morm/morm
Gwath ++ Nog/none/Boro
Ilya ++++ Boro/Rune/Boro
KA ++++ Boro/Lommy/Green
Kath +++ Lommy/Boro/Nog
Lommy ++ Ilya/Nerwen/Shasta
morm +++ Nog/Agan/Lommy
Nerwen ++ none/Lommy/Kath
Nog +++++ Ilya/Boro/Kath
Rune ++++ none/morm/morm
Sally ++++ Legate/none/Green
Shasta +++ Agan/Nerwen/Lommy
tp ++++++ Legate/Kath/Boro

[the phantom]

An attempt to search for ties and patterns in the votes surrounding people I find somewhat suspicious....

Rune and Green have twice made morm a Rep.
morm has made Lommy a Rep.
Nerwen has made Lommy a Rep.
Lommy has made Nerwen and Shasta a Rep.
Shasta has made Nerwen and Lommy a Rep.

Any theories on what could possibly be going on with these individuals?

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Ilya

Still, I wish more people had voted to even things out.

What do you mean? I believe 15 out of the 16 players voted toDay. And other than that Boromir's vote has more weight than the others, I think with seven total reps the voting was pretty evened out.

[the phantom]

mormegil....

I just read all of your posts for today. I wrote down every single reason you've given for suspecting Boro and I.

Post #856-
1) We're "trusting" of each other.
2) I'm acting too goofy sometimes.

Post #862-
1) We're working together.

Post #882-
1) We're acting "buddy-buddy".

Post #954-
1) He's too sure of himself.
2) We're working together.
3) We're using ploys.

So if we combine those points that are simply repeated, we are left with this-
1) We're working together.
2) Boro seems confident.
3) Phantom is goofy sometimes.
4) We use ploys.

Not terribly convincing stuff, morm. Point number three is just a plain weird reason for suspicion. It's like suspecting Nog for occasionally making long posts.

Point number four is also plain weird, seeing as ploys have been used by me and others in every WW game I've ever been in.

Point two is weird as well, as we've all seen Boro be hard-headed before, as well as the fact that surety of guilt and innocence is just as much a Seer flag as a Werewolf flag.

So we're left only with point number one, the fact that Boro and I are working together.

I've explained the reasoning for this several times, and you have yet to respond to any of it. Not that there is any way to respond other than saying, "Yes Phantom, that's true." But just because I'm a patient chap, here are some quotes that I've made in answer to that point.

Originally Posted by me

So yeah... I pretty much trust you at this point.

1) The McCaber kill doesn't match you.

2) You tried to do the I'm-the-Seer ploy, just like me.

3) You did the set-up-kill ploy, just like me.

4) The Seer has almost certainly checked us by now.

Originally Posted by me

It's nothing we haven't done before.

As a matter of fact, I can recall a game (I think it was another of Fea's) where Boro and I reached a complete understanding on the very first day.

Sorry, but that's just how we roll.

Originally Posted by me

Yes, the reason why I'm really trusting him at this point is that he appears to have caught onto my ploys and not attempted to ruin them, while at the same time running similar ploys of his own.

Originally Posted by me

Boro and I are displaying trust for each other and are attempting to work together. This is where all of the suspicion stems from.

Fact: We are both likely to be correct given the simple odds to begin this village.

Fact: We are extremely familiar with each other, and I at least have shown a great ability to read him in the past, pegging him quite often on Day 1 as Ordo or Wolf.

Fact: The ploys that we were doing can be seen quite clearly in hindsight and their workings explained logically.

Originally Posted by me

And the reason we discussed the ploy with each other was simply to see if we were on the same page. Building trust! You people wonder why we're trusting each other? Um, maybe because we're doing things to build trust.

There, morm. That clear enough for you, or do I need to repeat everything again?

Every one of your reasons for suspicion has been taken care of.

If you are innocent in this village, it is now up to you to read and reread and think about what has been said, and see if you can still logically support your claim.

[mormegil]

Okay tummy, how is this...I'm going to calm down a bit, admittedly I've gotten a bit heated today. I'm going to play Halo 3 for a bit and see what I can do to reread all of Boro's posts, although looking at the fact that he has over 150 I'm not sure that can happen. Maybe this doesn't make sense but no I don't have any logical reason to suspect him, it's more based on gut feeling. Something doesn't sit right with me. I learned long ago that when I try and make cases I end up over thinking things and get hung up in double/triple/quadruple bluff scenarios and I leave worse off than I started. So what I have found works best is feel my way through it. It's easiest to do with those I'm most familiar with. For example, Lommy feels very much like Lommy and despite her style being the type that grates me a bit because she feels the same I feel she is innocent. I've played with Boro at all stages and I feel scared of him. The only times I have are those when he is a wolf.

Does that make any sense?

[the phantom]

Originally Posted by morm

Okay tummy, how is this...I'm going to calm down a bit, admittedly I've gotten a bit heated today.

That sounds good.

I know this is true with me, so I'd imagine it is true with others as well- when I am in a heightened emotional state, my mind gets pretty much stuck where it is, and I am unable to step back and look at everything reasonably.

That's why I've said a couple of times to people that nothing I've said today was meant to offend, because offended people aren't going to make as good decisions. If I offend someone then I'm hurting their reasoning- something I don't wish to do here.

The problem is, as crunch time approaches I am likely to get a bit heated myself, and then that will only solidify everyone's positioning. The way I see it, early in the day here is our last chance to talk this out and do the right thing.

Originally Posted by morm

I've played with Boro at all stages and I feel scared of him. The only times I have are those when he is a wolf.

Well morm, I've often been able to read him as well, and I am not feeling a WW. I admit, it's possible that he's playing absolutely brilliantly and completely fooling me, but- I'm not willing to risk that he is innocent, for if he is then he has indeed been helping all along and will continue to do so. I strongly suggest leaving him for the Seer.

Originally Posted by morm

Maybe this doesn't make sense but no I don't have any logical reason to suspect him, it's more based on gut feeling. Something doesn't sit right with me.

Thank you for that, morm, because that's exactly what I think is going on with most of the village at this point. I have rationally, and as calmly as I can manage, answered any questions regarding logical reasons for suspicion, so I can only assume it is lingering gut feeling that is causing my responses not to carry weight.

Now, I'm not saying gut feeling is useless, not at all. What I am hoping to be able to show you and others is that gut feeling alone should not be enough to send Boro (or I for that matter) to the gallows. Mainly due to this simple fact- If we are indeed telling the truth, then what we are is two Ordos who are working together for the good of the village, who possibly were successful at impacting the kill of the WWs the previous Night, and more than willing to be Wolf-bait to protect the Seer, and extremely likely to be Seer dreamed innocent.

Do you really want to throw away that much possibility based on a gut feeling?

That is the all important question.

Please, morm. Don't be a part of this. Make the WWs drive their own bus. Make them get their hands dirty if they're set on doing this.

[the phantom]

Well, I have an early morning tomorrow (last one this week thankfully!), so I must retire for the night. I will look in briefly before work, and should be around off and on for most of the final ten hours or so of the day.