Password

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Then how do you explain this group not being on TG? Everything there is to know is on there, so why isn't it?

Okay, that is funny. But you do realise the category you linked doesn't even include 'Gondolindrim', which unquestionably meets my description? (Not the answer, of course.)

Originally Posted by Urwen

Furthermore, I only have core books (e.g. LOTR, Hobbit, Silm, CoH) and FoG. Things like Lay of Leithian and all that are not in my possession, so if you expect me to get the clues from anything I don't own, then know that it won't happen.

I mean, you're doing okay so far? If you work out the theme there's really only one possibility.

hS

[Urwen]

Inb4 it's some obscure group of people found in Weird Bits, in which case the answer is Northern Orcs, who were particularly fickle and spent most of the time staring at Aurora Borealis, and the rest of the time inviting unsuspecting people for dinner, then chucking them into Northern Sea of Nurn, waiting until they froze solid, and then eat them like ice-cream. I'd give anything for ice-cream...

[Huinesoron]

New page:

MORGOTH - Monstrous craven lord (per Fingolfin)
ORODRETH - A dullard slow (per Curufin)
CELEGORM & CURUFIN - Faithless lords untrue (per the people of Nargothrond)
KING THINGOL - Robber (per Sauron)
5. I - Poor rejected beggar
6. N - Fickle folk
7. G - Wrought of lies and guile

(And did we just pass ten thousand posts on this thread?!)

Originally Posted by Urwen

Inb4 it's some obscure group of people found in Weird Bits, in which case the answer is Northern Orcs, who were particularly fickle and spent most of the time staring at Aurora Borealis, and the rest of the time inviting unsuspecting people for dinner, then chucking them into Northern Sea of Nurn, waiting until they froze solid, and then eat them like ice-cream. I'd give anything for ice-cream...

Snort. Charming though the Northern Orcs are, it's not them.

Look at the answers so far and consider what links them. I will say that Fingolfin's comment on Morgoth is presented in flashback.

hS

[Urwen]

But did you miss my post? The one I've deleted?

[Urwen]

Also, the only common link between those is the Silmaril. Or the fact that they were all killed.

[Urwen]

6. Elves of Nargothrond? (Your Gondolindrim hint points towards this)

[Galadriel55]

7. Gorthaur? Though I can't find a direct quote.

[Galadriel55]

5. Can't happen to be Inglor (aka Finrod)? Because that would totally fit the description and what I can make of the theme.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

But did you miss my post? The one I've deleted?

... yes? Isn't that the purpose of deleting posts - so people don't see them?

Originally Posted by Urwen

6. Elves of Nargothrond? (Your Gondolindrim hint points towards this)

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

7. Gorthaur? Though I can't find a direct quote.

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

5. Can't happen to be Inglor (aka Finrod)? Because that would totally fit the description and what I can make of the theme.

Yes, yes, and yes (well, Ingold)

MORGOTH - Monstrous craven lord (per Fingolfin)
ORODRETH - A dullard slow (per Curufin)
CELEGORM & CURUFIN - Faithless lords untrue (per the people of Nargothrond)
KING THINGOL - Robber (per Sauron)
INGOLD - Poor rejected beggar (per himself)
NARGOTHROND - Fickle folk (per the narrator)
GORTHAUR - Wrought of lies and guile (per Luthien)

Theme: Mocking words in the Lay of Leithian

1. Canto XII: Come forth, whom earth and heaven abhors! / Come forth, O monstrous craven lord!
2. Canto VIII: And then he leaned and whispered low / that Orodreth was a dullard slow
3. Canto X: 'Let us slay these faithless lords untrue!' / the fickle folk now loudly cried
4. Canto VII: warring on the borders of that domain / where Robber Thingol and outlaw folk
5. Canto VI: then at least I should find a few / to go with me, not like a poor / rejected beggar scorn endure
6. Canto X: the fickle folk now loudly cried / with Felagund who would not ride
7. Canto IX: 'O demon dark, O phantom vile / of foulness wrought, of lies and guile,

In an astounding show of irony, a password begun because of Beren's sass wound up using none of it, nor either of the best words directed at him ('Beloved fool!' from Luthien, and 'witless and redeless' from Huan).

Over to Urwen, I believe.

hS

[Urwen]

All right. This one is inspired by yours, sort of.

1. #FFFFFF extremity - of an animal
2. Lord of the hammer.
3. Initiator of double drowning.
4. Finwe's folk.
5. The creator (of this one).
6. Their raiment was green.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

All right. This one is inspired by yours, sort of.

1. #FFFFFF extremity.
2. Lord of the hammer.
3. Initiator of double drowning.
4. Finwe's folk.
5. The creator (of this one).
6. Their raiment was green.

Is #1 WHITE HAND?

hS

[Urwen]

Afraid not.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Afraid not.

Okay; is it either CELEBRINDAL or CELEBRIMBOR? Tolkien at least considered silver to be a form of white (hence the White Trees are images of the Silver Tree), and both feet and fists are extremities.

Also they're both associated with Gondolin, which is always a decent guess with you around.

hS

[Urwen]

You were closer with white hand than you are now.

Maybe the clue needs some altercation.

[Urwen]

There. That better?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

There. That better?

... WHITE-SOCKS?

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

... WHITE-SOCKS?

hS

No, no. You're misinterpreting the clue. Animal extremity. What is animal extremity?

[Pervinca Took]

Swish-TAIL?

Silver-FOOT?

[Urwen]

No.

Guess I'll have to spell it out for you...

You haven't heard? It was my understanding that everyone has heard.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

No.

Guess I'll have to spell it out for you...

You haven't heard? It was my understanding that everyone has heard.

I'm not clicking that, because three hours of occasional guesses is by no means enough that you need to spell any answers out.

Throwing in a couple of "so obvious they're probably wrong" guesses of NOLDOR for #4 and DROGO BAGGINS for #3. Oh, and URWEN for #5.

hS

[Galadriel55]

Hui, I had a feeling Beren's snark was involved. I just couldn't come up with the quotes - and that's cause none were Sil quotes, though Fingolfin's in pretty close.

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I'm not clicking that, because three hours of occasional guesses is by no means enough that you need to spell any answers out.

Throwing in a couple of "so obvious they're probably wrong" guesses of NOLDOR for #4 and DROGO BAGGINS for #3. Oh, and URWEN for #5.

hS

Ah, you beat me to it!

Likewise not clicking yet, but wanna propose "paw" for the extremity.

P.S.: what is all the white/silver stuff going on? What clue variant did I miss? I don't get how there's colour involved.

[Urwen]

No to all.

[Galadriel55]

Throwing out a couple more obvious ones:

3. Primula, as there seems to be debate of who drowned whom.

6. Green Elves of Ossiriand? Alternatively, Rangers of Ithilien?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Galadriel55

P.S.: what is all the white/silver stuff going on? What clue variant did I miss? I don't get how there's colour involved.

#FFFFFF is how you code white in HTML (hexadecimal codes, where FF is the highest 2-digit code).

hS

[Urwen]

Nope.

[Kath]

White tail?

White wing?

[Urwen]

WHITE WING: #FFFFFF extremity - of an animal
2. Lord of the hammer.
3. Initiator of double drowning.
4. Finwe's folk.
5. The creator (of this one).
6. Their raiment was green.

[Huinesoron]

Hmm. The House of the Wing is one of the Great Houses of Gondolin, bearing a white wing as their symbol, so... #6 (HOUSE OF THE) TREE?

And oh, wait: there's another double drowning, when Ecthelion went balrog-swimming. So either ECTHELION or FOUNTAIN for #3?

The Houses of Gondolin are really interesting, from a political speculation viewpoint. They were clearly founded after the city, since there's nothing like them anywhere else in Arda. How many were there originally? The Pillar and Tower were clearly once a single House - how did they get so large? The Wing is an obvious political fiction, and was the Mole even officially approved? It kind of feels like Maeglin took up with the miners (who as low-class workers probably weren't in a House at all) and started using the name.

So were they all craft-houses originally? The Swallow still bear an arrowhead, and the Harp a... well, harp (so was Salgant actually just a bard whose House had turned themselves into warriors in his despite?). The Hammer was obviously the smiths, who later became the Hammer of Wrath. Pillar-Tower could be the gate-guards? But this leads us to the idea of the Tree as foresters, the Fountain as engineers, and the Heavenly Arch as... well, rich cloud-watchers, which pretty much checks out.

Anyway, that's all off-topic.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

2. Helm? Or maybe Mahtan the Smith, or Aule?

[Urwen]

...like yarn

WHITE WING: #FFFFFF extremity - of an animal
2. Lord of the hammer.
ECTHELION: Initiator of double drowning.
4. Finwe's folk.
5. The creator (of this one).
HOUSE OF THE TREE: Their raiment was green.

[Urwen]

Warning: 3 and 4 are easy, but you have to think a bit outside of the box to get 5.

[Huinesoron]

#2... ROG? (Astondingly, Rog is one of the few remnants of the Fall of Gondolin to be name-dropped later; he shows up in the Quenta Noldorinwa of 1930. Not Duilin, not Penlod, not even Salgant - no, flippin' Rog!)

hS

[Huinesoron]

... wait.

The password's WRENCH, isn't it?

Which puts an N on Finwe's people... since it's not Noldor, how about NOLDOLI?

hS

[Urwen]

WHITE WING: #FFFFFF extremity - of an animal
ROG: Lord of the hammer.
ECTHELION: Initiator of double drowning.
NOLDOR: Finwe's folk.
C: The creator (of this one).
HOUSE OF THE TREE: Their raiment was green.

Incidentally, 5 is the creator of FoG, as well as CoH, BaL, Nature of Middle Earth and a bunch of other stuff...

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

I'm not clicking that, because three hours of occasional guesses is by no means enough that you need to spell any answers out.

Throwing in a couple of "so obvious they're probably wrong" guesses of NOLDOR for #4 and DROGO BAGGINS for #3. Oh, and URWEN for #5.

hS

Sorry, I didn't see that. *blames it on headache*

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Incidentally, 5 is the creator of FoG, as well as CoH, BaL, Nature of Middle Earth and a bunch of other stuff...

Until you mentioned 'Nature' I was going to suggest CHRISTOPHER TOLKIEN, but now...

Originally Posted by Urwen

Sorry, I didn't see that. *blames it on headache*

No worries!

hS

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Until you mentioned 'Nature' I was going to suggest CHRISTOPHER TOLKIEN, but now...

No worries!

hS

Didn't he compile Nature...?

[Urwen]

WHITE WING: #FFFFFF extremity - of an animal
ROG: Lord of the hammer.
ECTHELION: Initiator of double drowning.
NOLDOR: Finwe's folk.
CHRISTOPHER TOLKIEN: The creator (of this one).
HOUSE OF THE TREE: Their raiment was green.

Anyway, over to you.

P.S: Could you see the theme?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Didn't he compile Nature...?

I'm not sure; the publishers say he sent stuff to Carl, but don't make it clear whether that was "have some stuff" or "here, publish this as a book".

Originally Posted by Urwen

Anyway, over to you.

P.S: Could you see the theme?

I assumed "The Fall of Gondolin"; was it more detailed than that?

I think you'll like this one:

1. - No, I don't mean Alternate Universe
2. - Weapons on which graphs turn (these ones are red)
3. - Stonework that pulls you from the mud
4. - Number one deus ex machina (now featuring heavy metal)
5. - I would tell you the answer, but -- just a second.
6. - Air is to corundum as water is to...? (Now, about that crown.)
7. - You! Yes, you! Fire! (& look up into the light)

(Comments in parenthesis relate solely to the theme; they are not useful for the password letter.)

hS

[Urwen]

2. Sword (anagram of WORDS)?