WW LXXV: It's Always Tea Time Here

[wintywinty]

Wintywinty – Tweedle
I suspect Shasta and Legate
Agan – Queen of Hearts
Nerwen, Brinn, Legate, Lommy, Shasta
Shasta – Knave of Hearts
Nerwen, Legate, Agan
Lottie – Duchess
Nerwen and Legate
Nerwen – the Dodo
Everyone
Legate – Jabberwocky
Wintywinty, Nerwen, Agan
Lommy – the Gryphon
Nerwen and Legate
Brinniel – Tweedledee
Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I don't think that's suspicious. And she's not really insisting, just defending herself. People bring it up; they say it's susicious; she explains why it's not. I don't have a problem with this.

I think it looks a bit different if you've played with her in the past, though– she could act exactly like this as a wolf.

However, I'll vote

++Legate


(for points raised earlier)

EDIT:X'd with winty. Cute.

[wintywinty]

++Legate

Xed with Nerwen

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

I think it looks a bit different if you've played with her in the past, though– she could act exactly like this as a wolf.

Maybe, and I could be wrong - I just don't think I am.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I made it back!

--Aganzir
++Legate

Edit: X'ed with Nerwen, winty, and Lottie. Well now, there's a waste of a retraction.

[Brinniel]

++Nerwen

[wilwarin538]

Agan -> Nerwen
Legate -> Agan
Lommy -> Nerwen (2)
Lottie -> Legate
Nerwen -> Legate (2)
Winty -> Legate (3)
Shasta -> Legate (4)
Brinn -> Nerwen (3)

That makes it Legate.

Legate was the Cursed-Wolf.

It is now night time. Narration will be up tomorrow.

[wilwarin538]

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe;
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

Alirin did trot along the way,
Hoping to find escadom
From this torribly long day,
Or atleast this deadful kingdom.

Then she saw the Jabberwock,
And the beast made her afeared.
She sooked about but stopped her walk,
When the vorpal sword appeared.

She took the vorpal sword in hand:
Though the skill she'd ne’er been taught—
So rested she by the Tumtum tree,
And stood awhile in thought.

And as in uffish thought she stood,
The Jabberwock, with eyes of flame,
Came whiffling through the tulgey wood,
And burbled as it came!

“I am a Culf and the Worsed,
Though I have not been for long!”
The Jabberwocky loudly versed,
As he proudly sang it like a song!

“I cannot pass this dreadful beast,
And I have not the skills to slay,
But I just cannot become it’s feast,
So to slay it is the only way!"

One, two! One, two! and through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
She left it dead, and left its head
And went galumphing back.

“O frabjous day! Callooh! Callay!
I slew the Jabberwock!”
The girl did skip and sing away,
As she continued on her walk.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Dead
Fea - Red Queen - Cobbler - lynched Day 1
Boro - the Caterpillar - Shirriff - killed Night 2
Sally - the Dormouse - Wolf - lynched Day 2
Izzy - White Rabbit - Ordinary - killed Night 3
Glirdan - Mad Hatter - Wolf - lynched Day 3
Greenie - White Night - Seer - killed Night 4
Nogrod – Cheshire Cat – Wolf – lynched Day 4
Nienna - White Queen - Hunter - killed Night 5
Inzil - King of Hearts - Ordinary - hunter killed Night 5
Morsul - Mock Turtle - Ordinary - lynched Day 5
Mira - March Hare - Ordinary - lynched Day 6
Skip - Humpty Dumpty - Ranger - killed Night 7
Legate - Jabberwocky - Cursed-Wolf - lynched Day 7

Alive
Wintywinty – Tweedledum
Agan – Queen of Hearts
Shasta – Knave of Hearts
Lottie – Duchess
Nerwen – the Dodo
Lommy – the Gryphon
Brinniel – Tweedledee

It is still Night 8.

[wilwarin538]

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Alirin continued walking yet again, feeling rather proud about her triumph over the dread Jabberwocky. Soon she came upon a fork in the road with two signs, one that said “To the house of Tweedledee” and the other said “To Tweedledum’s house”. The odd thing was that they were both pointing in the same direction.

Alirin decided to follow the signs and soon came upon two fat little men, each with an arm around the other’s neck. One had DEE written on his collar, and the other had DUM. They were standing completely still, so Alirin just stood in front of them and waited.

“If you think we’re wax works, you ought to pay you know,” Dum said, “Wax-works weren’t made to be looked at for nothing, nohow!”

“Contrariwise,” added Dee, “if you think we’re alive you ought to speak.”

“I’m sure I must be very sorry,” Alirin said, as she thought about the old poem.

Tweedledum and Tweedledee
Agreed to have a battle;
For Tweedledum said Tweedledee
Had spoiled his nice new rattle.

Just then flew down a monstrous crow,
As black as a tar-barrel;
Which frightened both the heroes so,
They quite forgot their quarrel.

“I know what you’re thinking about,” said Dum,”but it isn’t so, nohow.”

“Contrariwise,” said Dee, “if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn’t, it ain’t. That’s logic.”

The three stood for a moment just looking around at each other.

“Do you see that?” Dum suddenly said, in a voice choking with passion as he pointed with a trembling finger at a small white thing lying under a tree.

“It's only a rattle,” Alirin said, after a careful examination of the little white thing. “quite old and broken.''

“I knew it was!” cried Tweedledum, beginning to stamp about wildly and tear his hair. “It's spoilt, of course!” Here he looked at Tweedledee, who immediately sat down on the ground, and tried to hide himself under a shrubbery.

Alice laid her hand upon Dum’s arm, and said in a soothing tone, “You needn't be so angry about an old rattle.”

“But it isn't old!” Dum cried, in a greater fury than ever. “It's new, I tell you -- I bought it yesterday -- my nice NEW RATTLE!” and his voice rose to a perfect scream. Alirin quickly covered her ears as Dee crawled even further under the shrubbery.

“Of course you agree to have a battle?” Dum said in a calmer tone.

“I suppose so,” the other sulkily replied, as he crawled out of the shrub.
The two ran off and came back about three minutes later wearing full armour made out of table clothes, blankets and towels, and saucepans for helmets.

"Let's fight till six, and then have dinner," said Tweedledum.

"Very well," the other said, rather sadly: "and she can watch us -- only you'd better not come very close," he added: "I generally hit everything I can see -- when I get really excited."

"And I hit everything within reach," cried Tweedledum, "whether I can see it or not!"

As the two got ready to fight it suddenly became very dark. Alirin looked around and saw that there was a giant crow coming straight at them! Dee was able to take cover in time, but Dum could not escape and was taken up by the giant crow. Alirin hid under a tree and waited until it was out of sight, and by the time she got out of her cover Tweedledee was nowhere to be seen, and Tweedledum was off somewhere with the crow.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

Dead
Fea - Red Queen - Cobbler - lynched Day 1
Boro - the Caterpillar - Shirriff - killed Night 2
Sally - the Dormouse - Wolf - lynched Day 2
Izzy - White Rabbit - Ordinary - killed Night 3
Glirdan - Mad Hatter - Wolf - lynched Day 3
Greenie - White Night - Seer - killed Night 4
Nogrod – Cheshire Cat – Wolf – lynched Day 4
Nienna - White Queen - Hunter - killed Night 5
Inzil - King of Hearts - Ordinary - hunter killed Night 5
Morsul - Mock Turtle - Ordinary - lynched Day 5
Mira - March Hare - Ordinary - lynched Day 6
Skip - Humpty Dumpty - Ranger - killed Night 7
Legate - Jabberwocky - Cursed-Wolf - lynched Day 7
Wintywinty - Tweedledum - Ordinary - killed Night 8

Alive
Agan – Queen of Hearts
Shasta – Knave of Hearts
Lottie – Duchess
Nerwen – the Dodo
Lommy – the Gryphon
Brinniel – Tweedledee

It is now Day 8.

[Loslote]

Huh. Rather a strange turn of events...

Anyway. We have a bit more wiggle room now, but we still do have to kill the last wolf soon. My little list of Lottie logic:

I trust:
Me.

I mostly trust:
Shasta
Brinn
Agan

I suspect
Lommy
Nerwen

And I'll post with reasons for that grouping later toDay, but I don't have time for analysii right now, so I'll hang around for a few minutes and then be back when most everyone is asleep.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Huh. Rather a strange turn of events...

Anyway. We have a bit more wiggle room now, but we still do have to kill the last wolf soon. My little list of Lottie logic:

I trust:
Me.

I mostly trust:
Shasta
Brinn
Agan

I suspect
Lommy
Nerwen

And I'll post with reasons for that grouping later toDay, but I don't have time for analysii right now, so I'll hang around for a few minutes and then be back when most everyone is asleep.

...What? Did you not observe Brinniel's attempt to save Legate yesterDay?

Besides, I've read through the last couple of Days, and it looks to me like it's her– with Lommy as a runner-up.

[Nerwen]

Nerwen's suspicion list

Green
Me
Lottie

Self-explanatory.


Yellow-green
Shasta
Aganzir

Shasta voted Legate at a time when both Agan and I were viable lynches (see x-posting). Legate voted Agan when neither of them were clearly doomed, yet both were in danger– i.e. not a likely wolf-on-wolf vote. Anyway, not only is it late for such bold tactics, but voting for wolves has tend to draw suspicion this game.

================================================== =

Orange
Lommy

Encouraged suspicion of yours truly in a "not-really-doing-it" kind of way; phrases it in a way that suggests she knows I'm innocent ("we will undoubtedly feel stupid whatever she turns out to be"); made weird argument against the Cursed having been found; defends Legate.


Red
Brinniel

Basically, Lommy squared: ambiguous relations with known wolves; built up suspicion on me by coolly repeating "she's evil" until everyone believed it (like I said, I just can't see that there is a case on me); again she sounds like she knows I'm innocent ("whatever her role"); keeps her hands clean in the Morsul and Mira lynches, but in a way that suggests to me she knew their roles too; Legate defends her; she attempts to save Legate.

I have to do some stuff now, but as soon as I have time I'll provide chapter and verse for all this.

At the moment, I'd say it's almost certainly one of them, and that my suspicions are split about 80-20 Brinn's way.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

...What? Did you not observe Brinniel's attempt to save Legate yesterDay?

You've gotta be kidding me, right? I made it quite clear that I had every intention of voting for you from the very beginning of the Day. Did you not get the memo?

Anyway, I'm relieved Legate was cursed because he did look awfully innocent in the first half of the game (which means I wasn't completely fooled) . YesterDay I could see some valid points against him, but even if he was climbing up my radar, there's no way I'm going to jump on a bandwagon to lynch a player I haven't gotten the chance to look at for myself. And especially not when there's a potential candidate I suspect more.

Strange that Lottie didn't die last Night...now's usually the time where it's dangerous to keep around known innocents. In any case, I'm quite alright with last Night's kill choice...this means no chance for a dumb winty lynch.

It would make sense to go back and look at everyone...just trying to figure out how I'm going to do that since tomorrow is another busy day for me. I'd have to give props to Lommy if she is a wolf...remembering her interactions with other wolves in the past, it doesn't seem likely she is one. She'd have to be extremely bold and confident in taking such risks, which is possible, but right now I'm thinking her innocent. It's also possible Shasta is a wolf, but again I still find it less likely. I don't know, what are the chances that Nogrod would set up a case against a fellow wolf at a time when he himself would probably be lynched?

So far, I'm thinking Nerwen or Agan our most likely wolves, with Nerwen on top. This case she's attempting to set up against me which seems to have a lot to do with the idea that I "saved" Legate by voting her only puts her in a worse light. I've had innocents suspect me before, and while I'd be frustrated, their suspicion feels genuine. I've also had wolves make up cases against me in a major effort to get me lynched (remember that, Agan?) and everything about it seems forced to me. Right now, I'm reminded of the latter.

Btw, I'm wondering if toDay is the best Day for our unicorn to come out of the closet. It'd be nice that if we didn't get the wolf toDay that he/she would end up killing the unicorn and possibly give us an extra Day. But if that didn't happen, then the wolf could easily make a false claim toMorrow and force the remaining players to decide who the real unicorn is...and if they got it wrong, the wolf would win. Or if we're unlucky, the cobbler could be brought back, which would be bad news.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Btw, I'm wondering if toDay is the best Day for our unicorn to come out of the closet. It'd be nice that if we didn't get the wolf toDay that he/she would end up killing the unicorn and possibly give us an extra Day. But if that didn't happen, then the wolf could easily make a false claim toMorrow and force the remaining players to decide who the real unicorn is...and if they got it wrong, the wolf would win. Or if we're unlucky, the cobbler could be brought back, which would be bad news.

I think it is. With two known innocents, the list of possible candidates will narrow down considerably. Actually, if the wolf could reveal his true role, too, that'd narrow it down even more. Oh, wolfie?

Seriously, though, I do think the time has come.

[Aganzir]

Legate's guilt makes Nerwen look much more innocent. I don't think even she would've pushed a fellow's lynching like she did, at least this late in the game...

I disagree with Brinn about the unicorn not revealing (obviously). They are such minor points, risks that have to be taken if we want to have two known innocents... I can't think what an innocent would have to gain by saying it but for a wolf it makes much more sense.

I'll have to do some reading later but currently I'm leaning on Brinn being our wolf.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

You've gotta be kidding me, right? I made it quite clear that I had every intention of voting for you from the very beginning of the Day. Did you not get the memo?

And yet you waited until the last possible minute. I think you were hoping to be able to yet again keep out of the lynch of an innocent.

As for why winty was killed rather than Lottie: well, I don't know, but I suspect it's because he'd both made himself look very innocent and was a wild card in terms of voting, whereas Lottie had expressed her trust in you.

EDIT:X'd with Aganzir.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Legate's guilt makes Nerwen look much more innocent. I don't think even she would've pushed a fellow's lynching like she did, at least this late in the game...

But the only other real option at the time was herself.

I disagree with Brinn about the unicorn not revealing (obviously). They are such minor points, risks that have to be taken if we want to have two known innocents... I can't think what an innocent would have to gain by saying it but for a wolf it makes much more sense.

I'll have to do some reading later but currently I'm leaning on Brinn being our wolf.

No comment at this time. But I don't think you're right. I won't say anything more right now.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And yet you waited until the last possible minute. I think you were hoping to be able to yet again keep out of the lynch of an innocent.

Or she just really wanted to kill you over a (in her mind) unknown. As the rules stand, the last person to get the votes dies. If Shasta hadn't gotten back in time, she would've been able to kill you, her suspect, rather than Legate, who she wasn't as sure of. I would've done the same thing in her place.

As for why winty was killed rather than Lottie: well, I don't know, but I suspect it's because he'd both made himself look very innocent and was a wild card in terms of voting, whereas Lottie had expressed her trust in you.

There's a possibility, but if you take that logic a bit further, Shasta would be the wolf, not Brinn, because WW had expressed suspicion of him and I'd expressed trust.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

But the only other real option at the time was herself.

And why would Wolf-me have sacrificed Legate to save myself with all the suspicion against me yesterDay?

EDIT:X'd with Lottie.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And why would Wolf-me have sacrificed Legate to save myself with all the suspicion against me yesterDay?

To make yourself look better? Because you'd agreed overNight to w-o-w?

Or, of course, you are innocent and the wolf is Lommy. This is a possibilty, and I don't want to focus just on you.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

Or she just really wanted to kill you over a (in her mind) unknown. As the rules stand, the last person to get the votes dies. If Shasta hadn't gotten back in time, she would've been able to kill you, her suspect, rather than Legate, who she wasn't as sure of. I would've done the same thing in her place.

Lottie, look at the pattern of her voting. It looks to me very much like she's been trying to keep her hands clean each time an innocent gets lynched.

Look, have you played with a Brinnwolf before? She's famous for her ability to slip quietly through to the end and then win the game for the evil side. Look who's talking, you say? Yes, exactly– Nerwen is paranoid about Brinniel. She makes a very dangerous wolf.

Originally Posted by Loslote

There's a possibility, but if you take that logic a bit further, Shasta would be the wolf, not Brinn, because WW had expressed suspicion of him and I'd expressed trust.

Bit there's no reason to take the logic "a bit further".

EDIT:X'd with Lottie.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Lottie, look at the pattern of her voting. It looks to me very much like she's been trying to keep her hands clean each time an innocent gets lynched.

Look, have you played with a Brinnwolf before? She's famous for her ability to slip quietly through to the end and then win the game for the evil side. Look who's talking, you say? Yes, exactly– Nerwen is paranoid about Brinniel. She makes a very dangerous wolf.

I have. Nienna and Mira's game. It was bad. But...just because she could be a dangerous wolf doesn't mean she is a wolf. You are a dangerous wolf, but that doesn't automatically mean you are one.

BTW, I could be wrong about Brinn. Hopefully I'm not. If I'm not, it would be very bad to lynch her now.

Bit there's no reason to take the logic "a bit further".

Yes, there is. You can't just use logic to make points against one person; you have to think logically about everyone, and use the same standards and logic with everyone.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

To make yourself look better? Because you'd agreed overNight to w-o-w?

Under the circumstances, it would have been idiotic for a Nerwolf to have risked killing Legate– and like I said, helping to lynch wolves has been attracting suspicion this game!

Originally Posted by Loslote

Or, of course, you are innocent and the wolf is Lommy. This is a possibilty, and I don't want to focus just on you.

Yep, it could be Lommy too. I said that. But I think it's more likely Brinniel.

EDIT:X'd with Lottie.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Under the circumstances, it would have been idiotic for a Nerwolf to have risked killing Legate– and like I said, helping to lynch wolves has been attracting suspicion this game!

Okay, this is sounding more genuine. *ponders*

Yep, it could be Lommy too. I said that. But I think it's more likely Brinniel.

I don't think Brinn is a wolf. But then, I also suspect you, and you disagree with that, too.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

I have. Nienna and Mira's game. It was bad. But...just because she could be a dangerous wolf doesn't mean she is a wolf. You are a dangerous wolf, but that doesn't automatically mean you are one.

But it automatically means you never trust me 100%, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Loslote

BTW, I could be wrong about Brinn. Hopefully I'm not. If I'm not, it would be very bad to lynch her now.

Look, do you actually know something you're not sharing with us, Lottie? Is that it?

Originally Posted by Loslote

Yes, there is. You can't just use logic to make points against one person; you have to think logically about everyone, and use the same standards and logic with everyone.

You miss my point, I think. I'm not saying the kill-choice points to Brinn and only to Brinn, I'm saying there is a good reason why a Brinnwolf might choose not to kill you.

[Loslote]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

But it automatically means you never trust me 100%, doesn't it?

Not counting a seer-reveal, true.

You miss my point, I think. I'm not saying the kill-choice points to Brinn and only to Brinn, I'm saying there is a good reason why a Brinnwolf might choose not to kill you.

Okay, this makes sense.

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I disagree with Brinn about the unicorn not revealing (obviously). They are such minor points, risks that have to be taken if we want to have two known innocents... I can't think what an innocent would have to gain by saying it but for a wolf it makes much more sense.

Wait, I'm confused. So you don't think the unicorn should reveal?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And yet you waited until the last possible minute. I think you were hoping to be able to yet again keep out of the lynch of an innocent.

Of course I waited. The voting was close and if it came to a tie, I can only get you lynched if I voted last. Obviously I didn't know Legate was a wolf at the time and you looked more suspicious, so I did want you lynched over him.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And why would Wolf-me have sacrificed Legate to save myself with all the suspicion against me yesterDay?

Yeah, and probably the best way to brush off that suspicion is to go wolf-on-wolf since that's probably less expected at this late stage of the game. By voting Legate at a critical point, you can make yourself look good then pin the suspicion on someone who didn't vote him, which is exactly what you're doing.

Originally Posted by Lottie

BTW, I could be wrong about Brinn. Hopefully I'm not. If I'm not, it would be very bad to lynch her now.

Don't worry, you're not wrong. And I'm quite thankful to be innocent because I've been a lone wolf before and it sucks. Honestly with all other stresses going on in my life, if I were put in that position I would've thrown up my hands and given up ages ago.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Under the circumstances, it would have been idiotic for a Nerwolf to have risked killing Legate– and like I said, helping to lynch wolves has been attracting suspicion this game!

It's not an idiotic thing for a wolf to do if they think they can convince the village that it is idiotic (if that makes any sense). And as for the latter bit, not necessarily. Wolves may sometimes vote off their packmate, or they might vote to save them, or they might stay neutral. Looking at the votes should be done on an individual basis, taking into account the circumstances of the lynch, the reason for the vote, timing, and the voter's position in the game at the time (as in whether they were heavily suspected at the time or not).

[Nerwen]

Yeah, and probably the best way to brush off that suspicion is to go wolf-on-wolf since that's probably less expected at this late stage of the game. By voting Legate at a critical point, you can make yourself look good then pin the suspicion on someone who didn't vote him, which is exactly what you're doing.

Oh... I see... so Shasta's vote is suspicious too, I suppose? Whereas yours makes you pure as the driven snow?

Look, Brinniel, the only rationale for your actions the past few Days– the one with which Lottie has thoughtfully supplied you– is that you are on a noble crusade against me, so sure I'm a wolf that nothing else matters except killing me.

Problem one:

YOU DO NOT KNOW MY ROLE. What do you claim to be, the secret backup Seer? Greenie's pm-buddy to whom she communicated her last Dream? What?

And don't say it's because your "case" against me was so persuasive that you could logically be 99% certain I was a wolf. I say again: what case? I answered your points against me, and Agan's, and you simply waved your hand and said, "No... don't buy it– anyway, let's just lynch her for peace of mind".

Problem two:

You are not Sally. Or Izzy. Or any of the players who tend to go by gut-feeling and are sometimes led astray by it. I've had those two– ordos both– pursue innocent-me for Days because they "just knew" I was a wolf. You, I just don't see being that convinced by your own paper-thin case.

EDIT: spelling.

[Nerwen]

What Brin and Lommy said, and what Legate said about them

#790. Brinniel speculates on what happened in the Night.


#792.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Btw Lottie (and perhaps Shasta too), can you please explain to me how lynching an innocent Morsul is soo helpful to us? I'm really curious about this one.

I already stated this. Morsul was attracting attention and trying to get himself lynched. A lone wolf would not do that because he'd lose the game not just for himself, but his entire team. Giving up would be a selfish and lame move, and I didn't think Morsul would do that.

Comments: I didn't address this at the time, but obviously what Morsul did might have been a lupine double-bluff, or a Morwolf might have given up because he was heavily suspected and his more skilled comrades already dead. While Brinn's case for his innocence was good, it was hardly so conclusive that she could be sure he wasn't "a potential wolf". (See #782.)


#794. Brinniel explains why she made a post that said what I already had.


#817.

Originally Posted by Legate

For that matter, if the Cursing did happen toNight, I would be most worried about Lommy then, as she was generally considered innocent, I believe, so I guess she would be a likely target for the Wolf.

#819. Brinn insists I'm still suspicious ("just because", basically): "You may see it that way, but I don't. Your actions on Day 3 and especially Day 4 look clearly suspicious to me." Explains again how she "knew" Morsul's innocence– says she merely deduced it. Dislikes the whole idea of lynching the Unicorn. Tells Skip she didn't vote because it was pointless:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Yeah, which was clearly unlikely. winty seemed pretty much gone by then. Nerwen used her retraction to save herself, and would obviously never vote for herself anyway. Lottie was the only one to convince, and I tried to persuade her to vote Nerwen and failed. By then, it was too late to persuade her to change it, and I'm quite certain she wouldn't have used her only retraction anyway when she seemed quite happy with her vote on Morsul. Even though my vote would've made no difference, I probably should've made one anyway simply for vote record reasons, but I was so irritated at the time, I couldn't be bothered with it.

Tells Skip my retracting to save myself is "not necessarily" a sign of guilt. Thinks we should "keep the possibility of a cursed turning in the back of our minds , but not yet attempt to go about looking for one just yet", but rather concentrate on the fourth wolf. Asks Wilwa:

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Btw, if we were to lynch the cursed, would the narration indicate whether that cursed had indeed been turned, or would we be left guessing?

Comments: Her answer to Skip is no answer at all, really. The fact remains that there was at least a chance to lynch me (the "clearly suspicious") and save Morsul, of whose innocence she was "pretty certain". She chose to hold her vote (she was there, all right, and commenting). Why? It looks to me like a wolf who doesn't really care about the results of the lynch, but prefers to avoid killing an innocent (i.e. me), when she could just sit back and let another one die by inaction. Even her quasi-defence of me to Skip there I don't really like– I mean, "not necessarily"? when what I'd done was normal practice. Okay, I'm getting paranoid now, seeing everything through wolf-coloured glasses, whatever. But look– doesn't it seem like she's trying to very subtly mislead the newbie about just how invalid his suspicion was?


#836. Lommy is disturbed by me because I'm not upset enough at the suspcion against me; thinks my use of underlining and italics "forced". Admits that she made mistakes about the rules.


#840. Agan and I are Lommy's top suspects.


#846In response to me Lommy admits that if I'd been acting indignant she's have called that wolfish too. Accepts clarification of a point I made.


#848. Lommy lists players in order of suspicion: Nerwen, Aganzir, Mira, Winty, Legate, Shasta, Brinn, Skip. Would prefer to vote Agan or me, but flip-flops: "both of their few last posts look unwolvish". Might also vote Mira or winty.

Comments: Lommy flip-flopping? Or Lomwolf wanting to keep her options open?


#851. Legwolf talks of whom he might vote (unsure of me or Agan, is thinking about Shasta and Mira.) No mention of Lommy or Brinn.


#856. Brinniel still suspects me, still on a "just because" basis, but doesn't feel "quite as forceful" about it– her argument has now changed to the familiar "lynch her for peace of mind" one: "And while I'd feel bad if she really were innocent, if we lynched Nerwen, at least I wouldn't have to keep worrying about her".

Comments: This looks to me like she knows perfectly well I'm innocent.


#857. Lommy shares my fears about the situation, will check her own and Agan's wolf-analyses.


#861. Banter from Brinniel.


#862. Tells Skip my losing my temper could be read either way– may not be guilty, but she's not about to conclude I'm a frustrated innocent either.

Comments: Fair enough


#864. Lommy gives everyone "wolf" points, based on interactions with known wolves. Agan has the most, followed by Legate and me. Mira, Skip and Brinn are in the middle, with winty and Shasta last.

Comments: None. I don't understand the criteria she's using.


#866.

Originally Posted by Lommy

If the options were Nerwen and Agan, I would have hard time deciding.

But if the option for a Nerwen-lynch is lynching Shasta or Skip, or even Mira, I will really have to vote Nerwen.

Nerwen, if you're innocent, I vote you and you get lynched, you may comfort yourself with the thought that I will go after Agan next (provided that I survive the Night).

PS. I think that Nerwen's frustration is genuine, but it doesn't tell us anything about her role (sadly).

Comments: Start of the "lynch Nerwen, then Agan (or vice versa)" meme.


#869. Lommy explains why she mentioned Shasta, Skip and Mira in her last post– they were the other people most suspected.


#870. Comments on Skip's retraction.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Wow that was pretty drastic... now I really wonder... (not about Skip though!)

Then about what?

#872.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Nerwen 2 votes, Aganzir 1? Whichever I vote, I will feel like an idiot if she turns out innocent...

Currently leaning on Aganzir though, not because she seems any more guilty but because she has less votes atm so it'd be more balanced (and more interesting toMorrow in case the game continues).

On the other hand, we can take for granted that Nerwen is going to vote Agan so it's kind of 2-2.

Hmm...

Comments: Hmm indeed... Sounds a bit like she expects the victim to turn out innocent– cf Brinn at #856.


#874.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Lottie, why are you so sure the cursed was turned last Night?

++Aganzir

I'm sorry darling, but you know I hate you to fool me as a wolf. Are you a wolf, then? Not sure, but your horrible track record when it comes to lynching wolves isn't exactly convincing. And I do get creepy vibes from you.

I'm especially sorry if Nerwen is the last wolf. But if it comforts you, if you're lynched and innocent, you can take my word that I won't fail to lynch Nerwen on the third time.

That being said, I leave this village in your hands, friends. I don't really have a preference over which one we lynch, Agan or Nerwen, I'll be probably after the other one toMorrow (if there is a toMorrow which I can take part to). If someone else dies, though, I'll be quite unhappy.

I trust you to make the right choice (whatever it is)... Good night!

Comments: Quite an evil-looking post– could be a wolf trying to set up the next lynch. Also, possibly trying to steer people away from talking about the Cursed, though it was a fair question to ask Lottie.


#877. Legwolf discusses his voting options.

Originally Posted by Legate

...Lommy now has made me slightly concerned given the emerging anti-Aganzir movement, however the concern is largely stemming from the fear of her being a likely target for a Wolf and thus, likely Cursed, but as there's no evidence of that, none can tell.

(...)

I am trying to resist now and focus on others, as I still believe I have better grounds for suspecting other people. Brinn is in a way a case similar to Nerwen's, of all the people there I find her maybe the least suspicious, though.

#881Legate's vote-post on Mira.


#882.
Brinniel insists she suspected me on perfectly valid grounds. Agan a dangerous wolf, but still probably wouldn't go after an innocent Nerwen at this stage. We should look at under the radar wolves, because that's the safest place for them to be. "Unless you're being suspected...then it's all about defend, defend, defend"

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Lottie, while we can consider the possibility of the cursed being turned, we shouldn't assume it. I recommend you don't vote someone because you think they are cursed...instead try to find the fourth wolf. If we lynch them, then we will find out whether we even have a cursed.

Comments: Trying to broaden her options, while still keeping me in there? Interesting that she repeats her argument against looking for the Cursed. I mean, it's a good point in itself, but it's starting to seem really important to her.


#883.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Frustrated can also be furry. There have been just as many frustrated wolves in the past as frustrated innocents. So don't think your frustration is going to make you look anymore innocent.

Comments: A bit twisty, I think– implies that my intention there is to say that my frustration proves my innocence, rather than just defend my reaction.


#887.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I'd really like to lynch Nerwen, but someone else has to vote her too in order for that to happen...

Almost 10 minutes until deadline. Where is everyone?

#891. Response to Lottie's "Legalysis", where she concludes Legwolf is "really suspicious".

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Are you voting Legate then? Though that'd be a throwaway...

I really hope you don't vote based on possible packs. Because we don't even know if there is one.

Comments:Third time. Yep, looks like it is important to her.


#894.

Originally Posted by Brinn

++Nerwen

Bah, this is annoying. I really hope Agan is the wolf then..

If I'm dead by toMorrow, please LYNCH NERWEN. Well, unless Agan turns out to be a wolf...

Comments: Picks up the "lynch one, then the other" meme.


#895.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Oh crap, Mira's going? I'd rather see Agan go, though not enough to retract...

Looks like an easy lynch. Mira's been busy in RL. I do NOT like how winty keeps coming out of nowhere to vote.

Comments:Mira had been talked about as a possible lynch for some time. Brinniel seemed oblivious to this– yet once Mira was doomed, she's ready to defend her. And why not retract, since she apparently finds Agan quite suspicious and Mira not at all suspicious? Much like a repeat of the previous Day, isn't it?


General comments; What I said before I started– Lommy looks somewhat suspicious, Brinn highly so. One thing I hadn't noticed before was that Legate twice suggested Lommy as the Cursed, which speaks rather in her favour.

Other than that there was no interaction between Legate and the other two, though this changes the next Day.

I don't know if I'll have time to look at that now, however.

EDIT:Formatting; spelling; clarification.
EDIT2: Ditto.

[Thinlómien]

I agree with whoever said that toDay the unicorn should come out - so, here I am, I give up. I would have wanted to die in the Night, but the wolf seemingly had no interest in killing me even when everybody thought me innocent. *sigh* And anyway, whoever it was who brought up the possibility of a false unicorn claim toMorrow had a point.

And before you ask - yes, I honestly forgot there's a unicorn in the game (although I admit I remembered it by the time I pretended to have forgotten it) and I was honestly wrong about who the unicorn can resurrect and in what case. I should read the role PM more closely.

I will be of use now and post some thoughts. I have read what people have said toDay and think there can be found pretty condemning material from the two previous Days' posting. I will look at it next and then come back with an opinion.

Last thing - thanks for lynching Legate, mates. I was pretty sure there would be some last-minute bandwagon and probably a stupid one. I logged in during the Night-time and saw "Legate was lynched" I was like "not AGAIN! again some stupid last minute bandwagon" and then I saw "he was the cursed wolf" and I was like "yay I think I'll snuggle all last-minute voters and forgive them for lynching Morsul and Mira!"

Okay, one more last thing. I think Winty was possibly killed because his death would leave no trails, the last wolf might've been between frying pan and fire with her (I say her because I doubt it's Shasta) kill choice last Night. Now, off to reread (although if I'm lazy I might do something else first, like have a nap, but I'll reread and post within 3 hours at the most and probably much sooner...)


edit: xed with Nerwen

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Loslote

No comment at this time. But I don't think you're right. I won't say anything more right now.

Originally Posted by Lottie

I could be wrong about Brinn. Hopefully I'm not. If I'm not, it would be very bad to lynch her now.

Lottie, you seem to be hinting here that you know something the rest of us don't about Brinniel, and that it proves, or at least suggests, her innocence.

EDIT:X'd with Lommy; fixed quotes.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Loslote

But the only other real option at the time was herself.

I'm not talking about that but the fact that she voiced some suspicion against Legate before, commenting on how he found Nerwen's kill speculation weird. I just checked it and it wasn't as strong as I had remembered, though... But in any case it must have been in the wolves' interests that they both survive as they might have won already today.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Wait, I'm confused. So you don't think the unicorn should reveal?

Whoops. No, I thought she should, I had been saying that for two days already. But I had just woken up after six hours of sleep, skimmed through the thread & figured I'd have time to post before leaving for uni, and somehow got the impression you said the unicorn shouldn't come out at all. Morning Agan = not the sharpest Agan.

Originally Posted by Brinn

Yeah, and probably the best way to brush off that suspicion is to go wolf-on-wolf since that's probably less expected at this late stage of the game.

It depends totally on the wolf strategy. If they both had lived today, it might have been relatively easy for them to lynch an innocent, whereas the longer the game continues, the more difficult it becomes for the last wolf to hide - even if she had regained some trust from the village by going heavily wolf-on-wolf.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

And before you ask - yes, I honestly forgot there's a unicorn in the game (although I admit I remembered it by the time I pretended to have forgotten it) and I was honestly wrong about who the unicorn can resurrect and in what case. I should read the role PM more closely.

Ha and I was like, Lommy is most likely not the unicorn, she wouldn't play stupid just to mislead the wolves!

Originally Posted by Lommy

Okay, one more last thing. I think Winty was possibly killed because his death would leave no trails

Yup I agree. And of course his vote for Legate made him look quite innocent.

I have plenty of time before my next class so I could go and have a look at Legate too.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Lottie, you seem to be hinting here that you know something the rest of us don't about Brinniel, and that it proves, or at least suggests, her innocence.

What I thought when reading those posts was that Lottie had a reason to believe Brinn was the unicorn... Or wanted to make somebody else believe so.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Lommy

And before you ask - yes, I honestly forgot there's a unicorn in the game (although I admit I remembered it by the time I pretended to have forgotten it) and I was honestly wrong about who the unicorn can resurrect and in what case. I should read the role PM more closely.

You forgot your own role?

EDIT:X'd with two Agans.

[Aganzir]

Others on Legate (Lottie, winty & Lommy mostly excluded)
-Agan agrees with Lottie that Legate is strangely non-committing, says she isn't used to him like that (regardless of his role)
-Nerwen wonders if Legate's surprise about her skip ranger theory is a mark of furriness
-Agan says she's worried about Legate because he feels sloppier and dumber than usual
-Agan lists Legate as one of her voting candidates (although a rather unlikely)
-Nerwen says he's smooth, slippery and opportunistic
-Shasta says Legate's backing away from claiming Nerwen's theory is far fetched could be wolfish, says Nerwen, Legate & Agan have points against them but isn't sure which are bigger
-Agan says the way Legate ends his vote post ("And let's hope we do it right this time and celebrate after this.") is awfully forced-looking and creepy
-Shasta laments that nobody is willing to vote for Legate
-Nerwen is sure there's at least a wolf in the group Legate-Lommy-Agan-Brinn
-Lottie votes for Legate after suspecting him heavily
-Brinn is growing increasingly worried about Legate but will have to look at him better before throwing any real suspicion at him
-Nerwen is willing to vote for Legate (at this point he has one vote plus Shasta's possible retraction; she xed with winty who said Legate was one of his top suspects)
-Nerwen votes for Legate (Nerwen-2, Legate-2, Agan-1)
-winty votes for Legate
-Shasta retracts and votes for Legate (he xed so when he started typing his vote post, it was Nerwen-2, Legate-1, Agan-1)
-Brinn votes for Nerwen at deadline. If Shasta hadn't retracted, Nerwen would've been lynched.

Legate on others
-wonders if Nerwolf would've brought up the theory of how the wolves could've noticed skip was the ranger, concludes that in her case it's not impossible
-has a "double-feeling" about Agan, thinks some things she does look innocent but she could also be a wolf
-has found Brinn mostly innocent before, wonders if she might be slipping under his radar, "maybe it will be best to wait for her to post and follow her to get more information about her."
-thinks Nerwen's post 931 is ineffective/unhelpful, reminds him of a desperate wolf
-is growing worried about Agan, finds Nerwen unnerving, thinks Shasta looks innocent but might be slipping under the radar. Thinks the wolf is hiding among these three.
-Nerwen looks better because she doesn't want to lynch ww
-thinks he'll vote for Agan because Nerwen looks more innocent whereas Agan has been more careful lately and is finding new suspects. Votes Agan.

Some conclusions, then...

Oh and as a sidenote (yes I'm easily distracted), we have two days to find the wolf. Unless she decides to kill Lommy and somebody is resurrected.

From the least suspicious to the most suspicious (the known innocents & me excluded, so not a very long list):
Nerwen. Brought up points against him early on the day, Legate seemed to consider voting for her seriously.
Shasta. Was after him from early on.
Brinn. It's quite convenient how they both were growing worried of the other but didn't want to do anything more radical before seeing them post more.

Based on interaction with Legate, Brinn seems to be the most likely wolf... However she did go after the other wolves, I think.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

You forgot your own role?

Maybe "forget" was too strongly said, however during the first three Days or so I was really seldom thinking I had any kind of special role to the point that I was playing the game without being "conscious" of my own role the same way I am if I'm a wolf or a seer/ranger/hunter. I still keep not thinking of it - besically because I am an ordo, my death (especially in the paws of wolves) just has good consequences to the village. (Psst Wilwa not the best role for someone who used to have some sort of unofficial record of surviving till end-game... )

However, this babbling is to say that I'm back from a nap/magazine pause and shall look at the Days when Legate was a wolf now...

[Aganzir]

Okay I checked Lommy's analysis of the village's interactions with Glirdy & sally and my own of Nog.

Agan: no opinion of sally, something mighty fishy going on between her & Glirdan (Lommy's words); voted for Nog without suspecting him much earlier; slightly suspicious of Legate who, on the other hand, voted for her when there was a fair enough chance to get her lynched (at least in my opinion ).

Shasta: sally tried to follow his initial Morsul suspicion; went back and forth about Glirdan; mutual suspicion between him & Nog and Nog's attempt to lynch him; was one of the first to go after Legate and his vote sealed his fate (even if he xed).

Nerwen: went after both sally & Glirdan although somewhat hesitantly; convenient relations with Nog; a major contributor in Legate's lynching.

Brinniel: last-minute suspicions against sally; went back and forth about Glirdan & voted for him without saying she suspected him; rather normal-looking relations with Nog, went with the flow the day he was lynched - however Nog listed her as suspicious along with sally & Glirdan on day 2; no real opinion of Legate & would've saved him if it wasn't for Shasta's retarction.

This list doesn't look very different from the previous one actually.

I'm pretty confident Shasta is innocent (and if he's a wolf I'm going to vote for him on day 1 every time we play together!). My best bet for lynching would be Brinn, followed by Nerwen (not that there are many options ).

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Brinniel

I've also had wolves make up cases against me in a major effort to get me lynched (remember that, Agan?) and everything about it seems forced to me.

How could I forget it? It's one of my favourite WW games ever (the other is the Prancing Pony).

In any case Brinn, I don't think my cases are that different when I'm a wolf than when I'm innocent... I mean, I tend to wear my wolf-coloured glasses even when I'm a wolf myself. And if somebody suspects me when I'm innocent, I barely ever think "Oh hey that looks genuine, they must be a misguided innocent!" So I don't quite get what's supposed to be the difference between being suspected by a wolf or innocent.
Hmm I have a feeling my ramblings don't make sense, but my point is that Brinn isn't convincing me of her innocence.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

And don't say it's because your "case" against me was so persuasive that you could logically be 99% certain I was a wolf. I say again: what case? I answered your points against me, and Agan's, and you simply waved your hand and said, "No... don't buy it– anyway, let's just lynch her for peace of mind".

To be honest I must say that I do think I had a case against you... You looked really suspicious to me. I've changed my mind since, but there were points against you.

[Thinlómien]

Things, or actually, Questions, since I can't quite make up my mind about these things...

The Day before yesterDay
- Legate's change of opinion on Nerwen after he was turned - suspicious or too obvious?
- Legate's post, opinions and speculation about everybody but Brinn - why not her? If she was his fellow, wouldn't he have felt he has to include her or otherwise it's suspicious? Although, later he says Brinn seems the most innocent of all - where did that then come from? But again we have to still ask: wouldn't a wolf be more careful about what he says about a fellow?
- Legate was reluctant to consider Agan a possible suspect because then he'd get paranoid and wouldn't get rid of it before she dies - echoes from innocent-Legate's thoughts or a crafty way of not suspecting a fellow?
- He would've liked to vote Shasta. Now I doubt he'd have invented a random suspicion of a fellow with this kind of half-hearted hoping his suspicion gets support.

YesterDay
- I'd find it incredibly funny if Nerwen was the last remaining wolf because then the two people to analyse the kill would have been the wolves.
- Legate came back to his innocent suspicion of Nerwen, but decided to suspect Agan more. Then he voted Agan, which makes me think it rather unlikely that they were in cahoots, because Agan was suspected a bit - too much for a vote for her to be safe and too little for it to be sensible to consider her a goner and try to make the best of it. Although, given the ruthless w-on-wing in this game nothing would come as a surprise...
- Brinn says: "Legate is someone I'm growing increasingly worried about, but I need to look at him better before throwing any real suspicion at him." That's quite a fishy statement in the situation where suspicion against Legate is growing. However, if Brinn is the final wolf, why did she be so nice to Legate after throwing all her three other fellows under the bus one by one, especially as she had pretty good odds to survive given the small amount of suspicion against her thus far?
- Nerwen's rather late vote of Legate admittedly looks good, but in the lines of the previous point about Brinn - if Nerwolf had thrown already all her three fellows under the bus, why would she hesistate to do that to the last, especially given that it would probably be her only chance of redemption in the eyes of the village?
- Shasta's late retraction from Agan to Legate makes him a very unlikely wolf.

Well well well. That's four rather unlikely wolves out of which one is a wolf. Quite well done, whoever it is. I think our last wolf is Nerwen or Brinniel, possibly Agan but probably not Shasta. Now I want to reread toDay's posting and see how people have acted toDay because admittedly I read it quite quickly...


edit: xed with Agan x2

[Thinlómien]

Gah, no time to reread, it's later than I thought... I'll be back later.