Friends of Nimrodel: Tapestry of Dreams - Discussion

[alaklondewen]

We're off, so feel free to post whenever you're ready in Book 1.

I've put my first up, you all know the drill, if I misused your character...etc.

I'll put up one for Erebemlin tonight.

~alak

[mark12_30]

Can't wait to hear from Erebemlin.

lmp: Regarding Tharonwe and realism-- A few pages back one of the characters had mentioned turning Tharonwe over to Elessar, for wreaking havoc on his North borders.

Would the guards of the city be investigating the entrance (wihtout fanfare) of three unknown elves-- one a bit suspicous looking?
Would Elessar happily let Tharonwe go, or would a hearing be arranged?
If Tharonwe gets jailed, how does he escape?

[alaklondewen]

Alrighty, Erebemlin's up.

Aylwen, Nuru, lmp, feel free to play with him, hook him, whatever you like while we await the decision of Mellondu.

Orual, I'm composing a post for Aeron to get you going...should be up tomorrow night.

I was also wondering about a possible role of Elessar, not only with the Tharonwe issue but would Lorien elves come to Minas Tirith and not expect or ask to see him (or on the other hand, would that be completely out of place?). It is quite possible Erebemlin has met him previously, and surely (or possibly) they would know Queen Arwen. Just something to think about as it's getting late.

[littlemanpoet]

I can't answer the questions right now.

Yesterday church held me all day.
Today a friend was released from jail and his car unimpounded. I was his transportation.
I have yet to reread ANY of the original thread.
If I post any thoughts here, or any narrative there, I fear it will be in ignorance or forgetfulness and be most unhelpful.
And I leave for a 6 day vacation starting Thursday morning.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by alaklondewen

I was also wondering about a possible role of Elessar, not only with the Tharonwe issue but would Lorien elves come to Minas Tirith and not expect or ask to see him (or on the other hand, would that be completely out of place?). It is quite possible Erebemlin has met him previously, and surely (or possibly) they would know Queen Arwen. Just something to think about as it's getting late.

Speaking as an uninvited canonist...

I'd say that it's hardly expected of them. Minas Tirith is a great city, and your average traveller certainly wouldn't be stopping in to see the king. Granted, mind you, that the Lórien elves are hardly "average"...

So it wouldn't be a matter of course- at least in my humble opinion.

That does not mean, however, that such a visit would be improbable. Elves in Gondor were rare, even with Legolas living in Ithilien, and would have been accorded fairly high respect. Should Erebemlin desire to meet the king, that would likely be arranged with ease.

As to knowing Arwen...

If Erebemlin was a high enough ranked Elf (and it seems to me that he was) to have been present at Galadriel and Celeborn's court in Caras Galadhon as more than a mere bystander, when not border patrolling, then he would likely have known her- if as an acquaintance, only. I would personally doubt that he would KNOW Aragorn, but it's likely enough that they met. Was Erebemlin with the Elves who accompanied Galadriel and Celeborn to Arwen's wedding? Or was he assisting with the post-Dol Guldur reconstruction?

Just some thoughts...

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

....someday I'll read it. But there's a handy summary at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Loves

These four concepts strike me as applicable concepts to this whole game.

OK, I'm halfway through it (bought the audio version, CSLewis himself, very cool.) It is indeed highly applicable (to the game and to RL) & I heartily recommend the book....

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

OK, I'm halfway through it (bought the audio version, CSLewis himself, very cool.) It is indeed highly applicable (to the game and to RL) & I heartily recommend the book....

I've read it. In what ways do you see it applying?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I've read it. In what ways do you see it applying?

Disclaimer: Must be missing some obvious connections but here's a first cut:

Charity (agape) is a love towards one's neighbour which does not depend on any loveable qualities that the object of love possesses. Lewis sees charity as a specifically Christian virtue, and the chapter on the subject focuses on the need of subordinating the natural loves to the love of God.

Agape, the disinterested desire for the best for The Unlovable Other: Ædegard, grudgingly perhaps, towards Mellondu. Also Liornung towards Mellondu/Amroth; and Bella towards Amroth. Ravion towards Mellonin, to a degree. Liornung towards everybody. How did a Christian fiddler find his way into Fourth age Rohan?; but there he is.

Eros is love in the sense of 'being in love'. This is distinct from sexuality, which Lewis calls Venus, although he does spend time discussing sexual activity and its spiritual significance in both a pagan and a Christian sense. He warns against the danger of elevating Eros to the status of a god, but he also praises it as an indifferent appreciation of the beloved as opposed to any pleasure that can be obtained from them.

Eros, the fascination of The Other for what they are: Amroth & Nimrodel; Imrazor & Mithrellas; Ædegard & Leafa; Nethwador & Bella. And, I suppose, Mellonin and Ravion, though they fight it like cat'n'dog.

Friendship (philia) is a strong bond existing between people who share a common interest or activity. Lewis explicitly says that his definition of Friendship is narrower than mere Companionship; Friendship in his sense only exists if there is something for the Friendship to be about.

Phileo: Friendship borne of a common passion &/or goal: Erebemlin & Taitheneb & Amroth; Mellonin, Raefindan, & Ravion; Bella & Liornung; in an odd way, Liornung, Bella, and reluctant Ædegard...

Affection (storge) is fondness through familiarity, especially between family members or people who have otherwise found themselves together by chance.

and... Storge: affection borne of (grudging) toleration of another's company for an extended period of time: Many of the other relationships. Mortals toward Nethwador. Aeron & everyone else; Ædegard & everyone else; maybe, eventually, Erebemlin & all those semi-pathetic mortals...

.....I don't mean to derail this into a theological/ philosophical debate-- really I don't! It's just that this subject is near & dear to my own heart, having thought extensively about it in other terms. Lewis' terms are a nice framework to work with too, and his verbal illustrations are both delightful and peircing.


My fascination with the ideas began one day when my neice asked me, "So how do you know when you are in love?" Red alert, red alert (she was thirteen, extremely impressionable.) One of these days I'm writing a novel about it. In a sense, this game is about that too; the differences between a crush and a commitment; between a friendship and a loyalty; between an allegiance and devotion; willing and unwilling service, and all of the intricacies thereof; I could go on & on.

The current possibilities between Mellondu and Erebemlin has me on the edge of my seat...


EDIT Yeah, I'm on a bit of a roll, but anyway... I love Lewis's illustration comparing love & commitment to diving into the water and then swimming. The dive (like falling in love) is exhilarating, shocking, rushing, overwhelming. The person who goes from relationship to relationship looking for the rush of romance over and over is like the guy who keeps diving into different pools, but never swimming. He doesn't ever cross the water; he just splashes a lot. If you want a realtionship, you've got to walk out the commitment-- you've got to swim. And that takes effort, zeal, commitment, energy. Work. That's just an awesome way to look at it.

My niece said love was when you can't stop thinking about another person. I said, yeah but that's just a crush. You should only marry once, but you'll have a crush on scores of people before you die... She looked shocked. Why is that surprising...? Eros versus storge & agape. Eros is by nature fleeting; if it's not augmented by storge or phileo or (preferably) agape or (even better) a combination of all three, then the relationship wanes.

With storge-- the (sometimes grudging) affection borne of familiarity-- he keeps talking about the family dog's affection for the family. I love it. Jorje rises like cream to the top!

Anyway-- exploring the intricacies of relationships has been a big one with me.

Who do you love, I hope it's me
I've been changing as you can plainly see....

I met all the girls and I loved myself a few,
and to my surprise
Like everything else that I've been through
it opened up my eyes

Garbage lyrics, super-catchy tune, and extremely dangerous world view.

Yeah.. and this is tolkien related because??? Ummmm, it all goes back to that other catchy song....
"An elven maid there was of old, a shining star by day..."

..end ramble.

[alaklondewen]

We have a time issue, I believe.

It seems that the group arrived at Mellonin and Mellondu's home at a half hour before noon (lmp #694). This was just after Raefindan breakfasted and bathed.

However, Ravion and Aeron are star watching while the others have recently left to visit the siblings.

I'm afraid some editing will need to be done. If the group plans on being in Mellondu's home until after dark, then we can add a statement someone about the day passing in one of the earlier posts to logically put Aeron and Ravion in the evening. If not, then we need to edit the hour of day during the interaction. I would think that being in their home from morning until evening be overmuch, especially with how little the family has to take care of that many guests. However, Imladris is not here to edit...Orual, what do you think? Anyone else? Suggestions?

I have a short post for Aeron ready, but I need the time to be right.

[mark12_30]

I think Ravion and Aeron are still at last-night, but the rest of them are in The-Morning-After.

I'll look at it some more. I think we could shuffle things around Imladris' post (I hope), moving Aeron & Ravion before or into, and Rohan, Mellondu & Mellonin & Erebemlin, after.

Edit: No, you're right; Ravion "mentions" that everyone else has gone to Mellonin's parents' house. So Ravion & Aeron are stargasing on the evening of the day of the visit.

Hmmm.


Edit 2:

We could apply a band-aid as follows: when Father, mother, Mellondu & Mellonin retreat into the back room, Father asks for a day-- instead of a moment or two. The whole band excuses themselves politely, and some of the conversation and pondering takes place while walking back to the Inn, or later in the day, or... or something like that.

Option number three: find a mod, and ask politely for some juggling.....

[Orual]

Yet another case of me not paying enough attention. It's pretty late, and I'm not entirely sure I'm reading the problem right, but would it fix things if I edited my post to have the others somewhere other than at Mellonin's parents' house? I don't think Immy had anything in her posts suggesting where the others were, so hers wouldn't have to be tweaked.

[alaklondewen]

You know, Orual, I think that would work. Afterward we'll see if we need some shuffling, possibly moving them after the house scene...that's if it seems off with the different times going at once (and if a mod would be willing).

[littlemanpoet]

I'm afraid a PM is the only way I have access to Imladris. I'll send one, but don't hold out much hope. I guess we'll have to carry him & Gwyllion.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm on vacation June 15 to June 20. My computer access will be limited.

[mark12_30]

Enjoy!

It's my turn next week.

[alaklondewen]

Have a nice and relaxing vacation, lmp.

If we don't get a reply to the pm to Imladris, I believe she has a blog. I can try that in case she doesn't receive email notifications of private messages.

And may I ask...did we start the game off too soon? Is everyone busy right now? I know we wanted to get it going because people appeared motivated. Do you all mind checking in just to let us know?

[Firefoot]

I'm here and ready.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I'm here and ready.

As am I.

Have a great vacation, lmp!

[Imladris]

Leave the Downs for almost a year and then poof! A thread resurrected Frankenstein style.

Alak and LMP -- I'm glad you two were able to get in touch with me.

I would be honoured to play Aeron and Gwyllion again. However, if the game is going to be fast paced (doesn't seem like it will), I will apt to be a bit slow...I hope that is alright with you all?

I'll just commence re-reading the game thread now. =)

[mark12_30]

Wow!! Welcome back, Immy. Good to see you!

[alaklondewen]

I am one happy girl! Welcome back Imladris! By the way, I'm so glad I got the right blog...I was going to feel really silly if I'd been mistaken.

I had a post for Aeron ready, but you think you can jump in as soon as you're caught up on reading...I'll leave that to you, or if you need more time, I'll run it by you before I post it.

*dances and cheers*

[littlemanpoet]

YAY!

Welcome back, IMMY!!!

I was so afraid you'd happen across that PM in about the year 2012 or something....

Made my day!

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by Celuien

As am I.

Have a great vacation, lmp!

Aye, ready here to- and the sooner we start the more likely it is that I'll actually be able to contribute deeply.

Just give me a deadline for Bergil's bio... I'm horrendously slow without a deadline.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I've been battling a load of time constraits over the past few weeks that have kept me from reading at the pace to which I am accustomed. I'm still only about half way down page seven on the game thread, but after tomorrow I'll have a rather lot more reading time. After a week from tomorrow, my life should go back to normal[ish].

That's when I'll be able to create a character and get going. But there's no need to wait for me.

Edit: I'm so glad Aeron will be staying around!!

[Orual]

IMMY!!!!!!!

I'm so happy to see you! Ravion would have been so lonely without Aeron, though he'd never ever in a million years admit it...

alak, should I go ahead and make that change to my post?

[Imladris]

Wow thanks for all the welcome backs! I feel so loved.

I'm very happy to be able to play with you all again...I really enjoyed the Ravion and Aeron moments. hehe

And Alak please go ahead and send me that post that you wrote up. =)

[alaklondewen]

alak, should I go ahead and make that change to my post?

Orual, that would be great. Thanks.

I'm working on a post for Erebemlin's reply to Mellondu and in that he will state the game time we have to finish Book 1. I would like everything that's going to happen to wrap up Book 1 to occur within the next 2 days/3 nights (game time). The party will be leaving at dawn on the 3rd day.

That means in that time we need to:

• Turn Tharonwe into the proper authorities
• tell the women they will be staying behind
• have whatever is going to happen with the women...happen
• and get ourselves ready for the next phase

We also need a cliffhanger and a lead to get readers interested in reading the second part.

These are our goals, if you all want to brainstorm and plot and scheme...let's do it. We're wanting to close this up sooner rather than later, because we have several really eager writers ready to join the pack and we don't want them losing their momentum.

[mark12_30]

Marigold across the marshy miles... Nice touch, alak!

[alaklondewen]

Thanks Helen!

Do you remember way back on the discussion thread, when Ædegard took a liking to Leafa and you took a bet that everyone in the game would find romance? Well, I had replied that it would take one whopper of a plot twist for Erebemlin...yeah, I believe we've had one or two...or five.

[mark12_30]

Stray thought:

Elessar being who he is, if he caught wind of a scheme to find Nimrodel, he would certainly want in on it. Not that he'd go himself, but he'd be eager to send some soldiers or rangers or... he'd want to help somehow.

There are two possibilities for this:

1. Oh, boy, more new characters; or
2. Erebemlin replies to Elessar that he would like to accept-- Mellondu comments "Oh, great, an audience for my supposed insanity, now I'll never live it down, nor this life debt either"-- and Erebemlin, in a rare moment of emotional sensitivity coupled with good foresight, realizes if Mellondu is uncomfortable, he's less likely to allow Amroth to surface. Erebemlin turns down Elessar's offer in case extra (too many extra??) characters will lock Amroth away for sure.

Maybe something in between happens; Erebemlin accepts a few good men, but not too many. Alak will know!

A little clarification on Mellondu:

When Mellondu first began dreaming that he was Amroth, it was wonderful, adventurous, exciting, challenging, romantic (in the poetic sense, and in the "Gee She's Pretty" sense, both.) He let himself be swept away, gave Amroth all the control he wanted, and relaxed and enjoyed the trip.

Until his sister was threatened, and Amroth made no effort to renounce Nimrodel in order to save Mellonin. In not fighting Tharonwe for Mellonin's life, suddenly Amroth became a bad guy. Lack of trust now means that Mellondu has no interest in giving Amroth control-- none whatsoever.

But now there's this life-debt; he has to serve Erebemlin; so he knows Erebemlin is going to want Amroth back.

Here's a big rub-- until Mellondu begins to trust Amroth again, he may very well be *unable* to allow Amroth to surface, even if he agrees to try. Or-- maybe he can relax long enough for just a glimpse of Amroth before he quenches him again.

This may or may not come up during the week I'm gone but if it does, you're all forearmed.

OK-- in the morning, I'm off for vacation, nine days. Back a week from Sunday night, may not post til Monday morning after that. Enjoy, don't be shy, and here's hoping for lots of reading when I come back! Thanks again to Alak for taking the reins!

[Orual]

Do Immy and I need to bring Ravion and Aeron up to the current day? Or, rather, let me rephrase: how quickly to Immy and I need to bring Ravion and Aeron up to the current day?

[alaklondewen]

Well, Helen and I were attempting to push the time along in our posts to catch up to Ravion and Aeron. So, if you are writing on the day before, then as soon as you can catch up, do. However, if you want to keep them on the same day as the others, we'll be at nightfall very soon, I hope, and that will even us up. Of course, the more posting the better, at this point.

What do you think?

[Imladris]

Just my pidley two cents --

I think it would be awkward to have Aeron and Ravion be ahead of the other main characters, namely Mellonin and co (if I made a time mistake in one of my posts please let me know and I shall edit) and that it would be better for Aeron and Ravion to catch up to the others.

So Orual can write...and if there is not a chance to move the time forward to nightfall (to Mellonin and co) then I'll do it.

[alaklondewen]

Immy, that totally works for me...having Ravion and Aeron catch up.

Nuru and Aylwen, the ball is in your court at Mellondu's home. I'll let you decide whether or not to have dinner with them. I can think of good things that can happen both ways.

I'll be leaving in a couple of hours to go visit my Poppy for Father's Day. I'll not have access tonight and most of tomorrow, but I'll check in before I go and when I return.

Happy Father's Day, everyone!

~Alak

[Nurumaiel]

Would Liornung pass up an invitation to dinner when he's been asked to sing?

I'll come up with something as soon as I'm able.

Aylwen, any thoughts on Bella and Leafa? Do you feel strongly whether they stay for dinner or not? Liornung will definitely be pressuring them to stay, hoping that he can convince them to sing, as well. Let me know what you think.

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

I don't mind, stay or leave, though Bella would generally be inclined to stick around with Liornung and Leafa...I say they stick around.

I'll get a post up soon as well...Bellyn is from Gondor...she ought to be having major memories and flashbacks right about now. This should be fun!

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

Bella is officially back.



Hope it's okay. If not, let me know...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Helen, dear, I've been meaning to ask. I came across this while reading the discussion thread last night:

Originally Posted by mark12_30

By the way, I'm trying to get a mental picture of each of you as writers and people, so I've been browsing profiles and questionnaires (remember "All About You"? I have very little info on either littlemanpoet or Imladris. If that's how you like it, I don't mean to pry! But if you'd like to add an "All About You" post or whatever that would be good too...

Part of the reason why I'm asking, is that I like to understand where people are coming from morally and spiritually-- mostly so I can avoid offending folks unneccessarily. Also I find it easier to explain what I'm thinking if I understand where others are coming from.

I think I'm formulating an RPG Writers' Questionaire of my own as I write this... (bubble, bubble, simmer...) Sure enough, here it is-- Please note it's totally OPTIONAL... If you do decide to fill it out you can either PM or email anwers-- no need to post 'em here if you don't want to.

optionaloptionaloptionaloptional
AllAboutFriendsOfNimrodel.rtf
optionaloptionaloptionaloptional

Is this something that you would like the new writers to do also? Or was it merely a thing of the past; part of the history of this marvelous story thus far?

[alaklondewen]

Great post, Aylwen...it's so good to have Bellyn back!

Feanor, even though Helen will gone for a short while, I know her answer...YES! I know I would love to know more about you all as well, since I've only written with one of you in the past. So, if you want to fill them out, please do and post them on the new discussion thread.

~alak

[littlemanpoet]

I've been spending some of this vacation rereading the first Tapestry thread. I'm up to page 5 now. Good stuff!