Password

[Urwen]

7. Name.

Isn't that right, big bro?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

7. Name.

Isn't that right, big bro?

Certain sons of Hurin who shall remain nameless (as if!) we're definitely on my mind with that clue.

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. I - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
11. B - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Pervinca Took]

R ... I don't know. Rickets? Rice Krispies? Retribution? Could be anything!

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

Certain sons of Hurin who shall remain nameless (as if!) we're definitely on my mind with that clue.

hS

I didn't know he had more than one. I knew dad was hiding something, but the fact he had multiple sons never crossed my mind. Where are the rest of them? I wanna meet the rest of my brothers!

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

R ... I don't know. Rickets? Rice Krispies? Retribution? Could be anything!

Retribution is closest, but from the theme there is literally only one thing it could be. That's why you got stuck with a kind of rubbish clue for R, in fact.

Originally Posted by Urwen

I didn't know he had more than one. I knew dad was hiding something, but the fact he had multiple sons never crossed my mind. Where are the rest of them? I wanna meet the rest of my brothers!

Died of the plague (wait, too soon?).

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Revenge?

Sauron, or rather Mairon, couldn't have had six BROTHERS in the mind of Eru, could he?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Revenge?

Not that close to retribution (though I think 'revenge' is fractionally closer).

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Sauron, or rather Mairon, couldn't have had six BROTHERS in the mind of Eru, could he?

I mean, I suppose he could? You're looking way too obscure, though. Break the clue into two parts: what is Sauron's most famous title, and what set of six can it be said to have?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I tried ANNATAR first of all. Not 6 letters, not 6 of any kind of letter.

Is it that MAIRON has 6 letters? But so has SAURON, so why say 'other name?'

[Pervinca Took]

THE LORD OF THE RINGS.

BAUGLIR

THU

THAURON

Still not 6 of anything.

[Pervinca Took]

Unless it's that THE LORD OF THE RINGS has six VOWELS?

...

Oh dear. Neither letters nor vowels begin with B anyway!

[Pervinca Took]

Could R be REBELLION?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Unless it's that THE LORD OF THE RINGS has six VOWELS?

...

Oh dear. Neither letters nor vowels begin with B anyway!

[Stares in 'You're Gonna Kick Yourself']

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Could R be REBELLION?

It could not.

If I point out that '3/4' only means 'three quarters' in the first instance, it might help maybe?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Books!!!

And Rheumatism.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Books!!!

Theeeeere it is. ^_^

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
3. I - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

And Rheumatism.

-_-

What are there 3 / 4 of?

hS

[Urwen]

They have rectums. A recto is 3/4 of a folio. It was so obvious.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Urwen

They have rectums. A recto is 3/4 of a folio. It was so obvious.

I wanted to post the b-------- equivalent of rectums for the Sauron clue.

[Pervinca Took]

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

What are there 3 / 4 of?

hS

Marauders.

(Peter Pettigrew defected).

…

Is it something to do with RUNES? Do RUNES cover 3/4 of our modern letters, or something?

And did many warriors have the RUNS? C'mon - that's 80% of runes - near enough, surely? And it has historical precedents - Henry V's soldiers (see, warriors) got the squirts between Harfleur and Agincourt. I believe the king even died of it 5 years later!

[Huinesoron]

The second '3/4' does not mean 'three quarters'. It means the other thing you'd usually indicate with a slash between two items(eg, 'this clue will probably be solved by Pervinca/Urwen').

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Could 3 be the hells of IRON?

Is it specifically 3 or 4, or could it be 5 or 6, etc?

I can't think of any 3/4 things, other than that there were 3 but really 4 Eldar/Edain marriages, because there was also Imrazor and Mithrellas.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Could 3 be the hells of IRON?

It could! Anga-mando, Iron-Hell (which is kind of an insult to Mandos, come to think of it?).

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
12. O - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Is it specifically 3 or 4, or could it be 5 or 6, etc?

I can't think of any 3/4 things, other than that there were 3 but really 4 Eldar/Edain marriages, because there was also Imrazor and Mithrellas.

It's specifically three. Strictly speaking it's four, but nobody really thinks about the fourth one, and if you asked 'How many [this thing] are there?', most people would say three.

Eldar-Edain marriages is a good thought; it's not right, nor in the right direction, but it's the right kind of thought process.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

O - Ovaltine, after a long night down t'pit?

The only O--- gemstones I can think of are ones I don't really remember hearing of in Tolkien, like ONYX. OPALS may be mentioned in a song or a necklace somewhere.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

O - Ovaltine, after a long night down t'pit?

The only O--- gemstones I can think of are ones I don't really remember hearing of in Tolkien, like ONYX. OPALS may be mentioned in a song or a necklace somewhere.

It's not a gemstone. This clue points at one word three different ways - only one of them (the last) in English.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Ore?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Ore?

Correct. I justify it not only as the only way to get an O, but by saying that 'heart' isn't really an accurate translation of the Quenya, so orë is the only way to accurately include it.

It's also probably the biggest hint at the theme, along with 'book' and 'lamp' taken together.

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
2. R - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
ORE - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

hS

[Pervinca Took]

I thought of ore a while back. But I don't understand the Quenya elements. And what is the rise? Are we talking about a vowel sounded higher in the throat, justifying the two dots?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

I thought of ore a while back. But I don't understand the Quenya elements. And what is the rise? Are we talking about a vowel sounded higher in the throat, justifying the two dots?

Nope - it's simply that orë is variously translated as 'heart (inner mind)' and 'rise/rising', depending on the source text.

The umlaut/diaeresis, when used in Quenya, is actually just a reminder to pronounce the letter. You always pronounce a terminal E in Quenya - Tolkien just wanted to make sure people remembered that.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

All I can think of for R is roch/rocco/rokko for horse. But can't satisfy the 3/4 element(s) at all.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

All I can think of for R is roch/rocco/rokko for horse. But can't satisfy the 3/4 element(s) at all.

Nope; R is in English. It's an emotion, and 3/4 of the word is something there's 3 (well, 4) of in Middle-earth.

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Regret.

Egret?

Sorry, that's too much of the word! (Before I look for famous herons of M-e).

[Pervinca Took]

Rage and Age?

(Not counting all the Ages before the Two Trees in Valinor, of course!)

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Rage and Age?

Spot on!

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

(Not counting all the Ages before the Two Trees in Valinor, of course!)

I'm pretty sure I remember Tolkien asserting that the Ages of the World were getting shorter, which doesn't make sense with the tiny First Age (of the Sun). Given how consistent he was with that First, I think he saw everything up to the fall of Beleriand as the First Age (the Age of Melkor, if you like).

WORLD - What they sang about (in the vernacular)
RAGE - Many warriors had this; 3/4 is what there are 3/4 of
IRON - What manner of hell is this?
TREE - A lineage stretching from Tirion to Minas Tirith.
TONGUE - What we speak, and what by
EAST - Gondorians do not speak of its breath.
NAME - Everyone has one (or two... or more!)
STARLIGHT - What the first children saw by
YOKE - Between two horses, but write otherwise and it's golden treasure
MOUTH - Sauron has one of these; unlike most, he can send his away
BOOK - By another title, Sauron has six of these
ORE - A heart, a rise, a miner's prize
LAMP - Two once died, to be replaced by two and two again
SOUTH - Where the stars are strange

And that's that! The password goes to Urwen, I believe.

Do you want me to tell you the theme, or do you want to try and figure it out?

hS

[Pervinca Took]

Please tell me. It's not things that have been inscribed symbolically, is it? Were there lamps on the doors of Moria?

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Pervinca Took

Please tell me. It's not things that have been inscribed symbolically, is it? Were there lamps on the doors of Moria?

Much simpler: it's the English translations of the names of the Tengwar.

The first four on the table are Tinco - Parma - Calma - Quessa, representing the letters T, P, C, and Qu; in English, their names mean metal - book - lamp - feather.

(I'm pretty sure all of this, including the English, is in the Appendices, but there's a possibility it's somewhere else.)

So yes, in essence: "Feanor [wrote] an ABC book for the Tengwar letters, and use[d] [names] of these things because they had the right initials".

hS

[Urwen]

1. The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
6. Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
8. A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

(Only one of the clues is cryptic. Have fun!
Also, I think you would like the first clue, Huey.

[Galadriel55]

6 has gotta be Celebrimbor. Am I remembering my Elvish correctly?

8. Nimrodel?

Originally Posted by Huinesoron

So yes, in essence: "Feanor [wrote] an ABC book for the Tengwar letters, and use[d] [names] of these things because they had the right initials".

And he had plenty of real world precedent to do so. The challenge was to find what the Elvish words actually were without looking them up. I wonder if in fact most cultures named the letters in their original alphabets with corresponding words.

6 Books was a fabulous clue!

[Urwen]

1. The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

[Huinesoron]

Originally Posted by Urwen

Also, I think you would like the first clue, Huey.

In which case it almost has to be Tar-Miriel the Magnificent, Fourth Ruling Queen of Numenor, Empress of the Seas, Elf-friend, defeater of Sauron and restorer of the Old Ways.

Or "Miriel" to her buddies.

hS

[Urwen]

TAR-MIRIEL: The one who should have been 4th.
2. A headwear, a grip and an element reveal a king's best friend.
3. By another name, she is named after a jewel (estrangement).
4. Islandic river? It's the biggest.
5. The first ruler of Atlantis.
CELEBRIMBOR: Fist of silver. The only decent fellow among his immediate kin.
7. A Vala and Turin meet, initially, in this place.
NIMRODEL: A girl who shares a name with a stream.
9. Third of this name. His people are devoted to Mahal.
10. An eager adventurer. Loved the sea.
11. Lady of Adamant. (Call).
12. Sheep land.

[Kath]

Is 9 Durin?

[Urwen]

Originally Posted by Kath

Is 9 Durin?

Technically, no. But if you were to add something extra to that, then yes.