WWLXII: Dead Men Do Tell Tales

[Thinlómien]

Oh well I guess I may have to look through Eönwë's posts for you Mac now that there's nothing happening...

[satansaloser2005]

Lommie, go to bed!

[Boromir88]

After reading through yesterday's Mac v. Lommy (haven't gotten to today's yet)...

++Macalaure

Lommy's followed my judgement lots of times (and some of those times it's been fun misleading her ). Since, I'm convinced she's innocent, and had really meant good by saying I was stupid (), I'll show trust in her judgement for once. If I'm being misled, stellar game Lommy.

I'll be back before the DL to catch up on everything else today (last thing I remember that wasn't just a skimming through was something between Nerwen and Mith about a monster? ). But I'm going to be out for the next few hours.

Edit: crossed with sally...and agreed! You've seriously done enough today (in a good way though) ::friendly smile:: since I can't add anymore.

[Macalaure]

Congrats, Lommwolf. You managed to flush out the ranger.

[satansaloser2005]

[Thinlómien]

A point or two that Eönwë has raised?

I like the fact that he brought Inzy to spotlight and said he had been ignored by everyone yesterDay, even though his vote was a wasted one.

Originally Posted by Eönwë voting Sally

Because she is in deep hibernation under Rudolph, and in voting she only seems to want to vote because she is is forced to, as if she doesn't really want to be answerable for her actions.

He pretty much phrased here what I found disturbing about her - or half of it - in a way I could never have consciously phrased it.Or maybe they're just messing with our minds, planting a seed of doubt in Nerwen's innocence, trying to make us lynch the only innocent we have proven to us, while they sit back and enjoy.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Or maybe they're just messing with our minds, planting a seed of doubt in Nerwen's innocence, trying to make us lynch the only innocent we have proven to us, while they sit back and enjoy.

You may call it an obvious point but no one had brought it up before.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

I wouldn't necessarily assume that the real seer would have revealed by now if Greenie isn't. It could be that the real seer hasn't found any wolves yet. However, it does make Nerwen seem innocent because I assume that the seer would have dreamt her, and if she had been a mutineer then they may have decided to reveal because of this, which would incriminate both Nerwen and Greenie.

A very good point, if I may say (although I disagree).

An original piece of thought:

Originally Posted by Eönwë

It could be that Rikae and Shasta are wolves. Being obvious usually makes players seem less suspicious, so maybe this little "kerfuffle" was just to make them seem "too obvious" to be wolves together. It also serves to distance themselves for each other. It would be a risky plan, but both Rikae and Shasta are experienced players, and from the times I've played with them I've seen them get into similar situations (especially with [b]Shasta[/B- which is sad, as he often gets killed early), so it wouldn't be too out of the ordinary.

Seems like you should have researched a bit before jumping on Eönwë.

edit (forgot to add this earlier) xed with quite a few

[Thinlómien]

Nah, Macwolf, I just think you're trying to flush THEM out by that. If you were really the ranger, you would have revealed earlier. I'd say we wait for a counter-claim but then again if I was the ranger I wouldn't fall for that and counter-claim. *shrugs* Anyway I don't believe Mac, not for a second.

[Isabellkya]

You are both Muties.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Nah, Macwolf, I just think you're trying to flush THEM out by that. If you were really the ranger, you would have revealed earlier. I'd say we wait for a counter-claim but then again if I was the ranger I wouldn't fall for that and counter-claim. *shrugs* Anyway I don't believe Mac, not for a second.

Why doesn't this surprise me? Maybe, just maybe, I didn't reveal earlier because a revealed ranger is a dead ranger?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Isabellkya

You are both Muties.

Yes, he is.


edit: xed with Mac

[Thinlómien]

If you were the real ranger you'd have come out before your fate was decided and let us lynch someone else toDay. Good try Mac, but that's it.

And I was speaking of a counter-reveal... we have a lot of dead people who haven't been around for ages, a few modfired ones and even living ones who won't be around anymore. It is very probable there will be no counter-claim. So this is up to whether people believe Mac or not. I do not. I only see a wolf's last desperate attempt to cause mischief.

And it relieves me because now I don't have to eat my head because I'm pretty certain I was right about Mac.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

If you were the real ranger you'd have come out before your fate was decided and let us lynch someone else toDay.

Last time before I came back and saw 5 votes against me, I had 3, with one possible retraction from Nerwen. I was very willing to take that chance compared to certain night death.

[Thinlómien]

Now it's what? Five votes and three possible retractions - Eönwë is asleep and there's no way you can fool me. If you manage to get all Boro, Nerwen and Izzy think you're the ranger and change their votes, you will not get lynched. So you're sadly not dead yet.

Well, tell me "ranger", who did you protect which Night? Except for last Night, of course.

[Nogrod]

Heh, how I love the fact now that I don't have a vote...

The interesting thing of course is that if you do not lynch Mac for being a ranger and he still lives toMorrow you'd be quite certain... unless - and that is what I meant in my first post a few hours ago - he's a cobbler among the thousands of you other cobblers around here.

Or unless the mutineers can afford playing with us innocents like cat with mice and let him live even if he's not one of them...

The sad thing is, that lynching Mac may get us rid of a baddie (and I should look at your case more clocely tomorrow Lommy to see whether I agree - I'd agree on the pretext of how he tried to lynch me all the time in the beginning and how he has tried to discredit anything I say up to this Day after that while I'm an innocent) but we will never know whether we lynched a baddie or our ranger...

Hmph... As I said, I'm glad I don't have to decide on this.

Hah, fun to be irresponsibly indecisive when there is nothing actually at stake any more as a ghost! I hope I'll be back toMorrow if I have time and interest to dive into this... but knowing nothing can be learned and nothing can be deduced... well it would take some willpower. Let's see if I find any.

[Thinlómien]

I think it would incredibly stupid to let him sweet-talk himself out of trouble toMorrow "oh the wolves didn't kill me 'cos they wanna frame me" and like I said I don't want another Day fighting him. Furthermore, if we start thinking of another lynch candidate now, it will be some really random lynch again and we're gonna waste it. I'm ready to take all the blame for our loss if he's the ranger but really if someone believes him they're nuts. Just think isn't that exactly what a dying wolf would want to do.

[Thinlómien]

Maybe it'd be good to let Mac live - you know, then I bet we'd get a Night with another unsent kill...

[Macalaure]

I guess people will want the list of my protections now, so here we go.

Night 2, even though I was still suspicious of Nogrod, I agreed with his point that the mutineers would likely kill someone who would likely fall silent when dead. My choice was Wilwa.
Night 3 I protected the quasi-known innocent Nerwen.
Night 4 I expected Rikae to be killed, so I chose Isabellkya pretty randomly.
Night 5 I repeated Nerwen, since I wasn't sure anymore that the mutineers were after Rikae.
Night 6, believe it or not, I protected Lommy. I still thought her more likely innocent than guilty, and her fixation on me would have made her a formidable wrong-trail Mac-setup kill.

Originally Posted by Loony

Furthermore, if we start thinking of another lynch candidate now, it will be some really random lynch again and we're gonna waste it.

I have one or two very un-random suggestions ready. Wanna see?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I have one or two very un-random suggestions ready. Wanna see?

No, I wanna lynch you. You're pretty happy for a dead ranger. I know I must be mad but I will really sit here all night to ensure you are lynched, if needs be. I won't see you wriggle your way out of this. (The only option I'm willing to even consider is Shasta, but you don't want to lynch your fellow, right? )

[Macalaure]

Nogrod, imagine the following scenario. You were still alive, and there is a ghosted bigshot player that offers what you are offering now. What would your words be for him?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

No, I wanna lynch you.

I quoted from you, but the message was really directed at everybody. I know very well that you won't change your vote - and least of all to yourself.

I can't believe that wolf is really the only person around...

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

You're pretty happy for a dead ranger.

Because I enjoy playing this game, especially for its more extreme situations.

edit: Yay - triple post.

[Thinlómien]

You have this village lynch me after I've offered them a wolf on a silver plate I'm going to eat my head and your head too.

edit: xed with Mac

[Thinlómien]

Yes you enjoy trying to flush out the ranger / get one more Day / make me stay up until 7am while I have to wake up at 8.

[Macalaure]

I didn't tell you you have to stay up that late, and I would definitely counsel against it, but you won't listen... little sisters

My favourite alternatives would be:
You, Lommy,
Eonwe,
Gwath,
pretty much anybody else, I have to say, except Nerwen, since there are no other gifteds left.

[Thinlómien]

I said I'm only willing to consider Shasta.

Your case on Eönwë was useless. You know it. You didn't even have the guts to admit it.

What do we have in Gwath? Someone who will be modfired soon most likelily.

And me? You think I as a mutineer would stay all night to see a certain innocent lynched when there are so many to choose from? I'm not that crazy. I'd go now and let you lynch someone innocent or already dead. I would have gone hours ago, with lots of noise that you should lynch Mac and left it be.

[Thinlómien]

I'm going to sleep for an hour now but I'll be back then (some two hours before the deadline). Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone. Please.

[Boromir88]

This Lommy crusade is getting really scary...I've never seen it before, and really Lommy what are you trying to prove from going all out Mac? If he's a wolf you'll get full credit. This type of attack is beyond both being innocent, one is a wolf, or it's as Shasta says both are wolves.

Mac, anyone can think up names of who they protected, and reasons why. Did you leave any hints/clues from previous days, as Rikae did? It of course that isn't required from any gifted, but I'm usually pretty decent at picking up hints (or at least they are hints in my mind! ) and it would help your claim if you did leave any.

[Macalaure]

Ah, I forgot your defense of Eonwe. You worked really hard to scrape the bottom of the barrel there. Respect.

Originally Posted by Lommy

I like the fact that he brought Inzy to spotlight and said he had been ignored by everyone yesterDay, even though his vote was a wasted one.

"Being under radar" is the only justification he ever gave to his votes (except on Day1 and with me today). And Inziladun was definitely not ignored by everyone. If Eonwe's vote had been valid, I would have joined him over voting Kath in a second.

Originally Posted by Lommy

A very good point, if I may say (although I disagree).

Indeed, and a very good hint for the cobblers. Seems like you should have read my case before defending him.


Yes, he did make a few statements about different possibilities, most obvious or misleading, but the "under radar" points right before his votes are the only times he actually shared his thoughts on others. We are severely challenged to gather information and find connections between people. Eonwe intentionally makes it impossible to evaluate him.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I said I'm only willing to consider Shasta.

Thus he must be innocent. Not my first choice.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Your case on Eönwë was useless. You know it. You didn't even have the guts to admit it.

Courtesy, please, ok?

Originally Posted by Lommy

And me? You think I as a mutineer would stay all night to see a certain innocent lynched when there are so many to choose from?

Staying up all night just so you won't have to deal with me one more day is more believable, that's true... wait

Originally Posted by Boro

Did you leave any hints/clues from previous days, as Rikae did?

I'm afraid no. I suck at hints and usually end up revealed right away if I try. *recalls last game as cobbler...*

If nobody is willing to believe me, whatever...

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Nogrod, imagine the following scenario. You were still alive, and there is a ghosted bigshot player that offers what you are offering now. What would your words be for him?

I think the 'Downs "politically Correct sensor" would **** up with my words...

But really, I wrote a 4½ pages of football commentary this evening / night for Arda Soccer tournament and will go to bed about immediately the time being 4.30AM here right now.

I have missed 1½ Days already totally and only skim-read this toDay (and yesterDay I was also just eyeing it) so sadly I have nothing very constructive to offer right now. If I get the inspiration, I will read this through tomorrow (eg. during the Night-phase) and will get into the thick of this on the next Day.

Not needing to be afraid for your life when it's already taken kind of lowers the motivation... and then needing to catch up a few Days of posting kind of raises the bar of getting involved even higher. But even if this game is just silly I wouldn't like to see myself as a quitter so let me promise I'll be back...

Originally Posted by Boro

This Lommy crusade is getting really scary...

I have to agree with this. It is weird. It could be honest or it could be twisted. But it is spectacular anyway! What would this game be without it?

But don't lynch Gwath! He is always lynched because he looks so darn suspicious everytime - and he mostly turns out innocent. And this time he is a) facing a modfire - or at least the threat of it, and b) the mutineers' decisions would make him look more good than evil.

And don't give me any more of that "let's lynch the one facing a modfire" -stuff. We need genuine lynches with the mutineers on the menu as well...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

No. No, no, no. Eonwe siding with Lommy makes me positive that Lommy is a mutineer and Eonwe either a fellow or a co-conspirator (more likely).

++Lommy

[Boromir88]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

If nobody is willing to believe me, whatever...

Since I can I'm going to catch up on the reading...I don't think I've thoroughly read anything past page 19 or something. I remember you mentioning you would not spend the day defending yourself, and would try to step up your game, let's see.

All I can guarantee you Mac, is since Nogrod hasn't riled me up and Lommy had this morning, but it's cool now, I'm in a clear mood right now. A good mood to actually read something openly, without any pre-judgements. (hmm maybe it was the recent ice cream I had...it was milky delicious and ice cream has a tendancy of making me CCC - cool, calm, collected. ).

So, you will just have to settle for that at the time being

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Boro

I remember you mentioning you would not spend the day defending yourself, and would try to step up your game, let's see.

I did that, until I suddenly had 3 stupid votes on me. After looking at Eonwe I intended to look at Lommy, but that proved unnecessary since she's entirely evil in my mind by now.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

For what it's worth, I believe you, Mac.

[Macalaure]

1 for Gwath and 1 for Lommy. Gwath would indeed not be the best of things, since he has to be modfired eventually. Lynching Lommy would be my preference, since she's most evil, but since she's around and in a fury, it will probably be most difficult.

Originally Posted by Shasta

For what it's worth, I believe you, Mac.

You have no idea how good that feels, after all that defending today.

[Isabellkya]

I am the Ranger.
And here is why...

[enter Big long post pointing out every single clue, and reasons why I am the Ranger]











*giggles*


Sorry, could not help myself.
I'm not the Ranger. Nor any Gifted. Nor Cobblie, nor Mutie.

The only "stupid" votes on you Mac - are Nerwen's and Eonwe's.

Lommy has become a Zealot. I think you are both Mutie's.


X'd with Mac.

[Macalaure]

Izzy, if you think that we are both mutineers, then why don't you retract your vote to her? It has to be the same for you, and if today turns out into a race between me and her, there's nothing to be lost from your perspective.

I don't think Eonwe's vote was stupid, just predictable...

[Isabellkya]

Only one person can deliver Mutineers on a silver platter.


X'd with Mac.

[Isabellkya]

Huh.
I don't quite understand what you are saying.

I should retract and vote Lommy?

"It has to be the same for you, and if today turns out into a race between me and her, there's nothing to be lost from your perspective."

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Izzy, even if you think Mac and Lommy are both mutineers (a view I solidly endorsed until about half an hour ago), wouldn't it be better to lynch Lommy first on the off-chance (in your opinion) that Mac is the ranger?