Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion

[mark12_30]

Thanks, Pio! It's always nice to know somebody's reading!

Elempi--

I've done a bit of charging ahead. Please let me know if I've taken liberties with Raefindan especially, but also anybody else.

[mark12_30]

lmp,

WHo sang "She moved thru the fair"? Wasn't it Argeleafa? Or was it Bella?

Whoever it was will be asked for a reprise, next post.

Edit: FOund it; 'twas Argeleafa.

[littlemanpoet]

I think I made a list of song posts somewhere back there.... checking it out....

It was Leafa - post 332, 1st run.

Ah, ya beat me to it.

[mark12_30]

...why is it so hard to end this story...?

[littlemanpoet]

Do you know how it's suppose to end?

I could come up with some suggested answer for your question but I doubt that's really why you ask.

What would you like to do about this?

[mark12_30]

I have been weary and dispirited, but it is time to find my rest in Him, and let what I cannot control, go. And there is much that I cannot control. Thanks, lmp, for the gentle encouragement. You are a good friend.

It would be really nice to actually finish this. As well as actually finishing the technical paper...

For encouragement, I actually went back and reread "Bolco Returns to the Shire." I can write, really I can, as long as God is near; and as long as I can make the time. Which means, as long as He gives it to me. Please, God....

"But in everything, by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving, make your requests known to God..." To finish things. And finish them well.

I felt like Bolco on the Barrowdowns... turned into a hollow tree, empty of heart, with dead leaves rattling in the cold wind. But I cried out to God, and this morning there was some joy. (Ever heard Phil Wickham? Old favorite made new.) may it persist, or be renewed often. Hope is good. Rest is good. My desire is for Evendim, and for today, Evendim is a good desire...

[mark12_30]

Evendim. Time to hike around the shore? Or better yet, to swim the shallows, all the way around.

[littlemanpoet]

I"m not hearing His voice right now. I'm in the position of Abraham getting ready to sacrifice Isaac. His presence is with me though...

Let me know if there's anything you want me to do.

And yes, you most certainly can write well when God is with you. I've read your stuff, I know.

[mark12_30]

All right. It took nine months, but Nimrodel has perished at long last, in the falls of Rauros, and Mellondu is shattered. The rest is tidy-up.

lmp, Marigold just called Erebemlin and Taitheneb to come and get Mellondu (who is actually at the Entwash, with Marigold.) It's a longish journey. I think Mellonin will go, and therefore Ravion. What will the Rohirrim do? Raefindan & co?

I forget... which of the seven rivers were we on, anyway? Sheesh, that was years ago.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow. Marigold's entrance was the perfect touch.

Are you talking about the seven rivers of the Entwash, or the seven rivers of Gondor?

Raefindan, Mithrellas, and the girl (what's her name?) are a unit and they are devoted to the good of Nimrodel and all those associated with her. They will seek to aid Mellondu as they are able.

Ædegard's friendship with Mellondu will lead him to aid him as he can, and Leafa will stay with Ædegard.

Does all this sound right?

[mark12_30]

Yes, it all sounds right.

Indil/Angela is all yours...

I neeed to take the proverbial deep breath, and decide what order all this occurs in.

I owe Mellondu's parents a dream from ... hmmm, i was assuming Marigold but perhaps Amroth will make one last appearance. Must think that over.

Erebemlin and Taitheneb are pretty wrecked. Not as wildly as Mellondu; and in a strict sense they succeeded completely in their quest. But Erebemlin needs time to digest that. and to say goodbye.

I think Taitheneb will sail.

Aedegard and Leafa could be the happier side of our pretty sad ending! As Raefindan And Mithrellas as well.

I think Tharonwe lingers. dwindling and fading, in the swamp.

[mark12_30]

which river in South Gondor was the question.

[littlemanpoet]

Either Gilrain or Kelos. I want to say Gilrain but it looks too far west. Still, Gilrain.

I forgot about Tharonwe.

I find myself trying to make this iteration of Roy Edwards aka Raefindan to flow naturally from my own story into this one. Maybe that's silly, but for some reason it seems appropriate. But that's an aside.

Fascinating, how bitter for the Elves (except perhaps Mithrellas - for now) and how fulfilling for all humans but Mellondu. There's just one thing. I'm thinking in Tolkienian themes: although Frodo was at the end of the tale "a wreck", he also was anything but. Of course, that's only true if one accepts the Christian basis for everything Tolkien wrote. That said, Frodo was Elvish in the best sense at the end of the story, in that his spirit burned so brightly that it could be seen by the perceptive; but also he was very human in that he was weary in body and soul and ready to lay down "these earthly trammels" and be laid to rest. I want this to somehow be so for Mellondu also. Somehow. I understand that the Elves gave themselves to each other, man and woman, to a degree not usual or likely in humans. This extreme (for lack of a better word) devotion that Mellondu experiences through Amroth's devotion for Nimrodel, appears to be the heart of his wound. But he's young. Or has his possession by Amroth aged him beyond his years in body as well as soul and spirit? Be that as it may, I think there can and perhaps must be some sort of resolution for him. Nothing flighty or easy, of course, but some sort of settled-ness in the end. At least, that's what I'm suggesting.

I'm interested to see what happens with Mellonin, as well. Her love for Ravion has seemed a little forced to me. When Orual was writing Ravion it didn't seem so much that way, but such are the difficulties of losing our friends on the long journey these RPGs become. Ah well.

So is it your thought to write the journeys of everyone as a denouement?

[mark12_30]

I don't think I have that much writing in me, lmp. not at the moment, anyway.

I was going to ask you, now that some time has gone by, what the story was (several posts back) about Abraham and Isaac. I was hesitant to ask when you posted that... digging about in someone's open wound not being generally appreciated. But the fire is burning on my own altar, now. This is the second death of this particular hope. Lindo's song about Bird fed Phura's dreams, but they were revealed as empty, lifeless, and vain.

I was happy to write, yesterday. Today? Feh. "And they all died, and their bones rotted on the mountainside, and Tharonwe lived happily ever after."

So, the correct answer is, His arm is not short, His hand is not weak. "The Lord gives, the Lord takes away; blessed be the name of the Lord." Yes or no? "Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him." Will I? In the light of eternity, this is no big deal. Just a little snag.

[littlemanpoet]

I think that what must happen at this point is that all of the characters must have their resolutions, and we need to know what each one will be so that we can write what is needed, no more and no less, to reach that goal. I'm more than happy to help discern what each character needs.

[mark12_30]

I guess the next question is how to break the silence. I think it will be Mellondu's parents' dream.

[mark12_30]

And if you want Roy Edwards fully manifested at the Gilraen (you were correct)or at Marigold's house or anywhere else in the tale-- should we end it back at the Seventh Star?) you have my full blessing. The Tapestry of Dreams: all threads fully revealed! Dude, would that be COOL.

[littlemanpoet]

Roy Edwards fully manifested? Err.... my story so far is less manifested than this rpg! But thank you for the offer and compliment.

It doesn't matter to me where the characters start. We could go for a start at Marigold with a "they had traveled for __ days ..."

I'm still mystified about Nimrodel. How could she die at the Rauros Falls if she was at the Gilraen with the other characters? It just doesn't make sense to me.

But go ahead with Mellondu's parents' dream when you're ready.

[mark12_30]

If you are time travelling via dream, when you die, where and when do you die? Eldarion and Erendis sort of thing.

I had always known that Nimrodel would follow Boromir down the falls in Frodo's boat, and die. Her heart was in the song of the stream, and they retuned there together in thought. I knew Amroth would "die" / leave before she went down the falls; it had to be Mellondu's fault (the way the story grew). I suppose another option would hvae been for Mellondu to wake up in the clearing after he drove Amroth out, but then Nimrodel wouldn't have gone down the falls, and Marigold wouldn't have come back into the tale. Mellondu going down the falls with Nimrodel made sense to me; she felt it was her duty to take him down safely... and the task proved too much for her. I couldn't have her commit suicide. And I wasn't ready for her to die of a broken heart so soon after recovering her trust in Amroth. So Rauros it was.

I've been dreading that post for nine months.

[littlemanpoet]

OK. Sorry for the delay. So do you want me to start writing some stuff for this?

[mark12_30]

I guess I should write Mellondu's parents' dream. Hmmm. Hoom hom.

SHould have waited... not inspired yet. Hmph.

[littlemanpoet]

It's a good start. Feels dreamish.

[mark12_30]

I edited it. Marigold gets around.

I think the ansewr to all your questions, lmp, is that everyone is dreaming, to a point. That's why people come and go with such alacrity, are called and summoned and released. And yet-- there is no waking.

What to do with Avarien? Will she fade, and be a "rustic memory" in some glade somewhere? Essentially that is what she is now. Or will she go west?

[mark12_30]

Note to self: previous discussion thread posts which indicate nececssary tidy-up work:

838
863
Don't forget all those Rohirrim
891, 893
895, 897

[piosenniel]

Just wanted to let you know that there is now a Gondor Game Index so that you can easily find your old games with the discussion/planning threads listed right next to them.

~*~ Pio

[mark12_30]

Thanks, Pio!

I need alaklondewen... Erebemlin and Taitheneb are't mine to finish! lmp?

[littlemanpoet]

Helen, please be patient. I have a very busy weekend. I expect to have more time to dig back into this come Monday. The atmosphere of your posts is enchanting.

[mark12_30]

No Worries. I can't exactly come back from a hiatus of seasons and demand that you respond in seconds, now can I?

...but I am hoping Alak will surface. Now THAT is a long shot.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Helen

I think Tharonwe lingers. dwindling and fading, in the swamp.

With his critters (can't remember what they're called - M---- something), curdling on his own bitterness.

I've read up on your post notes to yourself. That helps. Now to read the last two dozen posts, then maybe I'll have a sense of what to write. .... by Monday or so...

[littlemanpoet]

Some amazing stuff has been written here. Sometimes, it seems, the story takes us over and brings us beyond ourselves, beyond our abilities. I think this is called the Spirit.

"You have loved me well, I deem. Somehow, I also know that I have not loved you well. "

She turned to the lady, and caught her breath. Long moments passed.

"I know you. You are my Mithrellas."

And Nimrodel wept, golden tears shimmering in the sun falling onto the green sward. Around them the trees darkened into a deeper green; faded into gold; the leaves fell; snow began. And still Nimrodel wept. When the snow grew thick around their ankles, she stepped forward and embraced Mithrellas. Mithrellas' strong and gentle arms encircled her once again, and Nimrodel knew that those arms had held her many, many times. Nimrodel's heart sank into the embrace. Finally Nimrodel spoke.

"Truly and well you have loved me these long ages. Yet I have given you only cruelty and despair. Great is my wrong. Oh, how great is my wrong toward you. And how great is your good toward me."

She looked into his eyes again, and trembled. She spoke then in a whisper, but the glade quivered to hear it.

"You are true."

Taitheneb watched the king steadily brighten, and Erebemlin's fear began to ebb. At last, he thought. She knows him. An age seemed to slip away like a dream upon waking.

"Beloved, my heart desires naught else." He kissed her brow as joy swept through the glen.

Then he said, "But I can not take you with me."

Stunned silence fell, and one of the mortals gasped. The mocking laughter of the bound elf echoed in the glen before Raefindan silenced him.

You still grieve a little.

Don't you? How is it for you?

I wonder what it would have been like to become a woman who loved you.

You were already.

For years, I mean.

Now you get the chance to do both, but as my daughter.

Angela began to laugh for the sheer hilarity of it, and Mithrellas joined her for she had been listening all the while - without jealousy - which increased his love for her.

And so we receive reward and grace far beyond our desserts.

So it always is.

May it be so for Nimrodel.

Aye, may it be so for us all,

said the thought of Mithrellas.

"And some are always sundered," said Indil's child's voice with Angela's wisdom beyond her years.

"Yes. So it is for some among the Eldar."

"But even for the Eldar-" Raefindan paused "-beyond the walls of Arda's time, I believe that even those sunderings will be ended. And ours is a foretaste, thee and thee and me, for others to see, and to hope."

"I believe it may be so," Mithrellas said, "and as it is for us, so it is becoming for Amroth and Nimrodel. Look."

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

I think the answer to all your questions, lmp, is that everyone is dreaming, to a point. That's why people come and go with such alacrity, are called and summoned and released. And yet-- there is no waking.

I accept this.

What to do with Avarien? Will she fade, and be a "rustic memory" in some glade somewhere? Essentially that is what she is now. Or will she go west?

She has received redemption ~ to fade seems impossible now...

Originally Posted by Helen

And if you want Roy Edwards fully manifested at the Gilraen (you were correct)or at Marigold's house or anywhere else in the tale-- should we end it back at the Seventh Star?) you have my full blessing. The Tapestry of Dreams: all threads fully revealed! Dude, would that be COOL.

Dude? I'm an art geek, not a dude.

I see Marigold's cottage as the equivalent of Rivendell & the Seventh Star as the equivalent of the Prancing Pony. But if we're going to take that further, then where will Mithrellas, Raefindan, and Indil call home? Surely not the vale? Certainly not Minas Tirith! Hoom hom indeed! Thoughts?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

She has received redemption ~ to fade seems impossible now...

I wonder... *cough* Yes, I'm still following the threads here. Hopefully you'll permit a long-past minor member of the cast to put in his two pence.

Anyway, I wonder from a canonical perspective if redemption equals the impossibility of fading. Something about this notion feels off for me, and since the spirit of Tolkien is the aim of things here, I feel duty-bound to bring it up. If I'm lucky, it might stir the creative spirit a little.

Fading, with the Elves, is their natural course and path, and I think it can be argued that a refusal to fade would be a denial of redemption. This was the sin of Celebrimbor, in making the Rings of Power, and this sin being exploited is what led to Sauron creating the One Ring. It is notable, I think, to note what Galadriel says after she manages to refuse the Ring:

"I pass the test. I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Galadriel."
(my paraphrase. Emphasis on "diminish" is also mine)

It seems to me that if Avarien has been redeemed, then she would be able to fade, allowed to fade. To make the analogy with the younger children, she's able to lay down her burden like Aragorn (last of the "real" Númenóreans). Whereas Aragorn, a Man, dies, an Elf would fade.

At least... that's my gut reaction to the matter.

[mark12_30]

Hullo, Formendacil!

Nice to know yo uare reading. And thanks for the inputs about fading. Although-- depending on which sections you read, it's the unwilling elves that remained and faded, the willoing elves having gone west; and I recall that Tolkien was of the opinion (where DID I read that? and do I recall correctly?) that the unwilling, faded elves were not the sorts of spirits you would WANT To seek out and indeed would be better off NOT seeking them, becaues they aren't emnlightened elves and are more likely to be dark elves.

Different than Diminish, I think. Diminish I believe means to pass on the rule of Middle-earth to the hands of men, and move on to Whatever Is Next in the west. In the west, Galadriel would not be queen of one of the major realms, or indeed any realm, as far as I can guess. She would just be herself.

Wanna pick up (and wrap up) a character or two...?

You could even write a postscript for Aragorn to enter into the annals of Gondor... to be buried in their dusty library and forgotten?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I see Marigold's cottage as the equivalent of Rivendell & the Seventh Star as the equivalent of the Prancing Pony. But if we're going to take that further, then where will Mithrellas, Raefindan, and Indil call home? Surely not the vale? Certainly not Minas Tirith! Hoom hom indeed! Thoughts?

How about Dol Amroth...?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

How about Dol Amroth...?

Hmmm.... not as rulers, but as guests, I suppose....?

My two cents on Formy's welcome post: take it in light of Frodo as an example of what happens to Elves. He was called a most elvish of hobbits, wasn't he? My point is that Gandalf could see his spirit of light shining through his flesh, already in Rivendell before he even takes the Ring! Even more so is the effect on him of having endured that burden for so long so well, that he has become much like the Elves, of whom it is said that their bodily forms fade and their spirits become more visible - at least the Elves of the Light.

So perhaps Avarien's form is/has faded and her spirit, redeemed, is free to fly west....?

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, the last few posts seem to be set in the vale near the Gilraen. Is that right?

I was thinking about doing a post of Raefindan, Indil, and Mithrellas, and perhaps one or the same including Ædegard and Leafa, arriving at Marigold's cottage.

But to do that is to jump weeks forward in time, if they go in reality. If that's the case, I don't want to rush it. Do we need to have posts for travel? I'm hoping not, because that would be mere filler. Help, please?

[mark12_30]

I don't know how to resolve the glen at the Gilraen. I think we do need an "Oh, my goodness; it's over; now we can all go home" moment. I haven't given it any thought. What would that be like, among two elves, several Rohirrim, a scattering of other menfolk, and your Raefindan/Mithrellas/Indil family?

After all they have been through, I don't think they'd just scatter after a five minute goodbye.

I need to look at a map.

And I need to think about how this group of people would say goodbye to each other. Or would they all turn, together, and leave the glen, and travel together back to a place (which, I suppose, could be done in a single well-written post... TOlkien often did these things in a paragraph) , and say goodbye there? I guess that makes more sense. Would it be Minas Tirith?

[littlemanpoet]

I think they all need to go back to Marigold. Who wouldn't? Mellonin? She lives in Minas Tirith.

Erebemlin - Marigold, definitely
Taitheneb - she's on the way
The Rohirrim - she's hardly out of the way to Eorling country
Mellonin & Mellondu - your call
Raefindan, Indil, and Mithrellas - They have no reason NOT to go with the others to Marigold.

I like your thought for a final "it's all done, now what?" post. Perhaps we can discuss & rough it on the discussion thread here, and when we're happy with it move it to the story thread.

[mark12_30]

Mellondu is with Marigold now. She can keep him there, until Mellonin (and Ravion) arrive.

I'm tempted to make a dangling ending for Mellonin and Ravion. Perhaps an uneasy and unresolved friendship. Time will tell.

[littlemanpoet]

How would you feel about me writing for Ravion? Just throwing it out there. He's Orual's, not yours or mine, but because of the relationship with Mellonin, that creates different types of possibilities depending how you want to go about it. I'd of course have to go back and read a bunch of Ravion posts to get a feel, so maybe that's not such a great (time killing) idea....