Friends of Nimrodel: Tapestry of Dreams - Discussion

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Formendacil, welcome. And no, you will not be limited to Jorje-- unless you so desire.

Well, it'd be all very well and all to play such a noble beast... though knowing scarcely a thing about dogs as it is... but I think if I'm going to be given the honour of playing in Gondor, I'd like to make a proper character of it.

[littlemanpoet]

I'd be happy to write for Jorje myself. But Firefoot has honored me enough to remind me of what a unique style I used for him! I'll have to reread this whole thread myself! Haven't had time yet.

[Firefoot]

I've got to say, Jorje is one of my favorite characters...

Whew! I've finished reading it (at about 11:00 last night - I was all set to go to bed at 10 but couldn't just leave the last two pages ). I've got an idea for a character bouncing around in my head, but I'd like to think on it a bit more before posting more about it.

[Celuien]

An idea for a new character...

NAME: Sæthryd

AGE: 30

RACE: Human, Rohirric

GENDER: Female

WEAPONS: None

APPEARANCE: Sæthryd could be the perfect image of the Rohirric maiden – tall, blonde and blue eyed. From a distance, she appears beautiful. On closer inspection, she appears far older than her age and has what can only be described as a glint of manic intensity in her eyes, which tend to stare far away. What she ‘sees,’ she keeps to herself. She is unkempt and disheveled at home, but can put herself in order when required.

PERSONALITY/STRENGTHS/WEAKNESSES: Insanity. But though Sæthryd is quite mad, she can hide her illness under reasonable words and actions when the apparence of sanity is needed to achieve her purposes. She possesses fanatical intensity over her obsessions, and she can be both ruthless and bold in their defense when threatened.

HISTORY: Sæthryd’s birth was an event of great joy to her parents, freeholders living near Dunharrow. As she grew, however, oddities in her behavior began to appear. While other children played, Sæthryd wandered alone, talking and singing to herself of outlandish visions. At first her parents believed that she would outgrow what they thought was merely a wild imagination coupled with shyness. But Sæthryd’s ‘imagination’ did not recede with the years. Instead, it took on an alarming nature when she became obsessed with the Dwimorberg. Saying that it and its inhabitants called to her, Sæthryd made numerous attempts to go to the Paths of the Dead but was stopped by her parents, who grieved for her shattered mind and hoped that she would one day be healed of her madness.

Sæthryd finally succeeded in reaching the Paths of the Dead a year after the War of the Ring concluded. With the curse removed and the Dead departed, no harm came to her, and she passed through to the other side of the Ered Nimrais safely. Having survived the journey, she developed a possessiveness about the mountain, believing that it belonged to her – and the visions she received of the inhabitants of the Paths of the Dead – alone. She then began the life of a hermit in the mountains and became a jealous guardian of the ways to the Paths of the Dead.

~*~

Opinions? Feedback? I thought it might be interesting to have the current ladies of the story encounter a dangerous madwoman who will try her best to keep them from getting to Erech, or anywhere else near the Paths of the Dead - - - or could alternately lead them right to the Paths if the fancy struck her.

[Firefoot]

Here's my idea for a new character...

Name: Rugh

Age: 24

Race: Wild Man

Weapons: blow gun and darts

Appearance: Typical Wild Man: around four foot tall and stumpy, thick limbs with toughened muscles, thin dark hair, dark eyes without whites, no facial hair, thick-set but remarkably thin for that. Wears only grasses about the waist; woven grass pouch for darts attached to ‘belt.’

Personality/Strengths/Weaknesses: Rugh lives a very solitary lifestyle, having no family left. He is naturally wary of all who venture into ‘his’ part of the White Mountains. He is prone to very sudden mood changes, sometimes without warning, going from merry and carefree to fierce and vengeful. He takes great joy in things of beauty, whether natural things such as stars and forests or items of craft: he enjoys creating small carvings of wood using a sharp stone he keeps in his pouch with the darts. As most Wild Men, he has great knowledge of plants: which are poisonous, which are edible and tasty, which have some medicinal value.

History: At a young age Rugh was taught many things by his father: knowledge of plants, carving of wooden figures, the use of darts, and the rudiments of the Common Tongue which had been passed down in his family as tradition. However, his father and brother died when he was about ten, slain by hunters of the Stone-folk. A couple years later (in the same year as the War of the Ring), his mother died of an unknown illness, and some attributed this to the bad air slightly earlier in the year. After this, Rugh slowly began to break away from the loose tribe of Wild Men he had belonged to, eventually becoming completely solitary.

~*~*~

I figure he'll probably hook up with the ladies once they've entered what he calls his territory. He could be useful, if he wants to be... or maybe he'll decide to up and leave, catching wind of the men, whom he would probably consider much more dangerous and more worth keeping an eye on...

[alaklondewen]

Celuien, I personally love the idea. Sæthryd sounds like she would do well in my partial hospitalization group, but that's beside the point. Her symptoms point toward a schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorder (delusions, hallucinations, a hint of obsessive compulsive behaviour?), which is a fascinating idea, especially with the mysticism and "madness" driven actions the story has included thus far.

I think it's great, but of course, her use would depend on the course of action decided upon for the women.

Well done, I'm looking forward to writing with you.

~*~
Firefoot, interesting character as well. It looks as though the ladies will be having friend and foe on their adventures.

I believe we've worked together before, and it will be nice to write with you again.

~Alak

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by alaklondewen

Her symptoms point toward a schizophrenia/schizoaffective disorder (delusions, hallucinations, a hint of obsessive compulsive behaviour?), which is a fascinating idea, especially with the mysticism and "madness" driven actions the story has included thus far.

Thanks. I was thinking along the lines of schizoaffective disorder - she definitely has a mood disorder component to her behavior, and not so much of a blunted/flat affect. But I digress. It would be really interesting to try to figure out which of her visions are real and which are delusions, since I think she has been getting some of the real dreams that are floating around as well.

I can revise depending on where everyone is heading...

[littlemanpoet]

If we are serious about Canon, then it seems to me that something as modern sounding as schizo-affective disorder must have some kind of Middle-Earth based source. Pray what could that be?

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

If we are serious about Canon, then it seems to me that something as modern sounding as schizo-affective disorder must have some kind of Middle-Earth based source. Pray what could that be?

Well, I would never think to have anything appear in Middle-earth under that name, of course. That would never work! I think we digressed a little into attempting to diagnose the character.

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Celuien

Well, I would never think to have anything appear in Middle-earth under that name, of course. That would never work! I think we digressed a little into attempting to diagnose the character.

But that doesn't answer my question. There has to be some reason why she is the way she is. All her history says is that it happened. How?

[alaklondewen]

That's the question scientists have been researching for years.

However, how would Tolkien explain any developmental, medical, or mental disability or illness? There are of variety of internal, physiological explanations, but the people of middle earth would never know about them. So, maybe we could take a look at how individuals thought of mental illnesses before modern medicine.

Many people explained "madness" as a punishment for some sort of sin by the individual or possibly even their parents. Another explanation they could use would be some major stressor or traumatic event that triggered her symptoms or madness.

These, of course, are just a few suggestions running around in my head.

[Celuien]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

But that doesn't answer my question. There has to be some reason why she is the way she is. All her history says is that it happened. How?

I had an original background that I dropped as too over the top, but I can present it if you like:

Raid on settlement where parents resided led to her mother being sent off to safer quarters, but she became separated from the group and wound up on the way to the Dwimorberg. Search party found her later, dead on the path, with the newborn Sæthryd barely alive next to her. This knowledge opened her to the receipt of evil influence from the mountain and gave her an interest in the Paths of the Dead, which combined to cause her condition. A stepmother then replaces mother in the history given.

Alternately, she could have been haunted by real visions out of the mountain from childhood for unknown reasons and those slowly drove her to her current state. That's plausible since she was under the Dwimorberg when the dead still were there.

Or there could be a family history of mental illness. If we accept the conceit that Middle-earth is a past time period for our world, diseases that exist today exist in the past.

I don't know. If it's not canon enough, I'll scrap the idea. I just thought she was interesting.

[littlemanpoet]

No, it's canon enough. I was just wanting to know how. I like it.

Sorry for being curt today. I will change my tone. Unacceptable, no matter what. Sorry. All's good.

[Orual]

Oh my goodness! I'm so excited! I go back and read the old thread every now and then, and I miss it so much...this is wonderful! It's the perfect time, too. I'm out of school, and, having just made an A in Creative Writing, I'm pumped to write some more!

So a big "hello" to all my old Tapestry friends, and a big "welcome" to all the new-comers!

~Orual (Ravion!)

[Nurumaiel]

Orual!!! I'm so thrilled to see you! Welcome back... and congratulations on the A.

And welcome to everyone else, as well!

I apologise, lads and lassies, for being so silent on the thread...

The women going off alone... I honestly don't feel strongly either way. The main thing in my mind is a better development of Leafa's character. If they split up from the men, that would be an opportunity... if we continue on as we've doing, I'll find another way of developing her.

As far as lodgings for Bella and Leafa are concerned, my initial thoughts were the same as Alak's... the two of them staying with Mellonin's family.

[littlemanpoet]

I'm all for developing Leafa's character. Ædegard needs her to stand up to him more.

[Orual]

Question...

Is anyone picking up Aeron? (I'm sad to see that Imladris isn't playing anymore.) Where the thread left off, Ravion and Aeron are deep in conversation, so I'll be willing to write for Aeron for a while unless and until we find a place to send him home. Are there any other plans at this point for him?

~O

[littlemanpoet]

I had supposed either Anguirel or Feanor to pick up Aeron; natural thieves, those two. But maybe it's best just to gently let him go..... however, what does that do to Gwyllion? So no. We need somebody to play Aeron because there's destiny there, a real mix of angst and fate, rebellion and need to find himself and his purpose. Not to mention the grief and stangeness of her ghost hanging around him all the time......

[Orual]

Fabulous! I look forward to playing with whoever picks up Aeron.

Just to pitch in my two cents about the ladies leaving, I know that speaking for Ravion's storyline, the idea that the women take off on their own without letting the men know is the most exciting prospect for me. Ravion would not be happy, just as things are (unhappy, but) stable for him, all of a sudden the women strike off on their own...

How fun!

[mark12_30]

Eh, what I meant to say was....

Imagine for a moment that there is a good couple of days of planning. The menfolk agree that the womenfolk should stay safely behind; the womenfolk protest vigorously; the menfolk stand firm. The womenfolk casually jest about chasing the menfolk along their planned route ("Now that we know where you are going, do you rteally think we will stay behind?") Ravion (and others) issue deep growls and dire threats. THe ladies reluctantly/laughingly/wistfully acquiesce, but only after pestering the menfolk regarding their travel plans.

THe dank, moonless, foggy, drippy night before the departure:

Everyone gathers at an inn outside the seventh wall of the city. Leafa, Mellonin, Bella are staying together in a separate room, so as to farewell the men in the morning. Two hours after bedtime, one of the ladies (say, Leafa?) has several nightmares in succession, and then leaves the room, sleepwalking/entranced a la Mellondu/Amroth. Mellonin and Bella go out in the fields to look for her; they see her riding north, on the flint road (no tracks) receeding into the fog; they run for their horses to chase her. She leaves by the North gate of the Pelennor.

The men wake up, wonder why the women haven't said farewell, and realize their horses are gone. They furiously "chase" them to the south Pelennor gate-- only to learn from the guards there that no women have departed all that night. They then scour the Pelennor, and later, learn that the women departed from the North gate.

Were the two Rohan girls headed home? Did they invite Mellonin to go with them? Why did they go that way? And should the party split up to find out why?

...

Comments, tomatoes, eggsses?

[littlemanpoet]

I like it.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ditto what Elempi says.

[Formendacil]

Well, I'm not dead... I'm still following things here with interest. And I think I may have come up with a potential character for submission. And this character is a most canonical one indeed.

Bergil, son of Beregond, was at least ten years of age during the War of the Ring, when he befriended Pippin Took. This being the Year 12 of the Fourth Age, Bergil is approximately 24. His father and family having removed to Ithilien with Prince Faramir, Bergil has himself since joined either the Rangers of Ithilien or the Knights of Dol Amroth (not sure which...). His younger brother Borlas (known from the "New Shadow" would probably be in his early-mid teens).

I've two ideas how to work Bergil into this tale: the first would see him as a Ranger of Ithilien, joined to the company in the aftermath of losing their womenfolk. Ravion and Erundil are capable Rangers indeed- but they are Rangers of Arnor, and have no authority in the South. Bergil is assigned to assist by Prince Faramir, who as Steward of Gondor has no intention of seeing such things occur.

Scenario Two sees Bergil as an aspiring Knight of Dol Amroth. He has recently been visiting family and old friends in Emyn Arnen and the city while on leave, and is returning to Dol Amroth to return to his post. On the way he overtakes/is overtaken by the Menfolk, and falls in with them as something of a guide (none of the Elves, Rohirrim, or Arnorian Rangers would have been there before. Raefindan, as Imrazor, is another matter, but after 1000 years, places change).

Anyway, those are the rough thoughts that I've been having thus far. Any thoughts, questions, critiques?

[mark12_30]

lmp likes it. Hey!

Formendacil:



With regard to Bergil: LOVE it.

Knight or ranger? Your choice; ranger seems a bit more natural. It would be nice (also) to have a Knight from Dol Amroth-- maybe an appearance from a relative of Imrahil, or something similar...?

Flimsy the Skinny, nephew of Forlong the Fat?

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by mark12_30

Formendacil:



With regard to Bergil: LOVE it.

Delighted to hear it.

Knight or ranger? Your choice; ranger seems a bit more natural. It would be nice (also) to have a Knight from Dol Amroth-- maybe an appearance from a relative of Imrahil, or something similar...?

Ranger is more natural, I would possibly agree... but with Ravion and Erundil, the company seems Ranger-saturated already- though the differences between Arnorian Ranger and Gondorian Ranger might make for interesting drama. Or it might be enlightening to see the flip side of the Ranger coin: where Ravion is older, experienced, and somewhat troubled, Bergil is younger, brasher, and very confidant (having lived through the Siege of Minas Tirith, I don't see him as being too easily shaken).

As to a relative of Imrahil: there are several canonical possibilties. Imrahil has three "canonical" sons. That is, in a geneology for the House of Dol Amroth originally intended for inclusion in the Appendices, he is given three sons: Elphir, Erchirion, and Amrothos, as well as his daughter Lothíriel, who married Éomer. Also, Imrahil is easily old enough for his elder sons to have fully grown, if young, children.

Also, in addition to his sister Finduilas (who wedded Denethor and was the mother of Boromir and Faramir), Imrahil had another sister (from the same geneology): Ivriniel. Whether she wedded and had any offspring is unknown... though I'd say it's a safe assumption that she did. Her children (since she was the eldest child) would probably be in the Boromir/Faramir age range- so 45-55 (but of Númenorean blood) at the time of this tale would seem likely.

[littlemanpoet]

I find your reasoning that Prince Faramir would not like Arnorian Rangers wandering about Gondor, to be rather persuasive. How have they "gotten away with it" so far? I like the idea of Bergil the Ithilien Ranger, and hope you go with him.

[Formendacil]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I find your reasoning that Prince Faramir would not like Arnorian Rangers wandering about Gondor, to be rather persuasive. How have they "gotten away with it" so far? I like the idea of Bergil the Ithilien Ranger, and hope you go with him.

Well, with two votes in favour- and that of LMP and Mark/Helen both, how can I not choose Ranger?

As regards "gotten away with it?"- I would point out that neither Ravion nor Erundil have been acting as official representatives of the King or the Law at any time. They have drawn on the reputation of Rangers- 'tis true, but not in an exactly official capacity. Also, much of the story has taken place outside the Realm of Gondor- I believe the mouths of the Entwash are considered to be Rohirric territory.

It's only now, with the story returned to Gondor and taking place (for the men) in a specifically Gondorian direction that Gondor would likely be involved. 'tis also likely that the disappearance of the women is making a bigger noise in Minas Tirith than Mellondu's disappearance, and thus attracting the attention of the authorities.

I foresee Bergil being very agreeable, and getting along with people- at first. Once a major decision comes up, then I can see him taking sides- and sticking with them.

[Aylwen Dreamsong]

Question: Are we re-opening the old thread or starting a new one?

[Orual]

Could someone please PM me if I'm needed here, or if we start the game? I'm not checking here as much, as I'm dealing with the loss of a friend right now. Please pray for me and for my friend and his family, and keep me up to date with the game.

Thanks.

~O

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by Aylwen Dreamsong

Question: Are we re-opening the old thread or starting a new one?

I haven't finished rereading the old thread, and don't have a clear picture of how it ends anymore (or even if it does-- I think we just kind of drifted off...) I could be convinced either way.

Orual-- We're with you. The peace of Christ be with you as you remember, and grieve, and heal, and cherish the memories. Take your time.

[mark12_30]

Tapestry--

lmp and I are both swamped, and trying to find a way to have the game proceed anyway. Please bear with us til we come up with a p-p-p-Plan.

Scheme about the tale and about your characters, do!

Here's praying that Orual is doing okay, all things considered.

[mark12_30]

Aylwen raised the question, are we starting a new thread or continuing the old one. I think the right answer is yes to both... I think the old thread is dangling and incomplete, and we should finish it up, and leave a "cliffhanger" of sorts to get book 2 off to a good start.

So I'm going to ask the original gamers to consider this outline, and how they would weave an end to book one.

Since I'm nose-deep in that, I'll be rereading my last several posts on the thread and considering how I need to wrap things up, Basically everyone should end up aware that another quest is pending; women will stay. Erebemlin will be the driving force, I think. I'm off to find out what he hasn't done yet...

[alaklondewen]

I agree, Helen, that Erebemlin will be a strong force in getting them back onto the second quest. He didn't want to come into the city to begin with and will do whatever he can to get them out of the city. The first major problem with him will be either reaching Amroth or somehow changing Mellondu's mind/heart. I'm sure Mellondu is not going to give up easy.

Now, may I ask what kind of timeline we are looking at to start the process of finishing the first book?

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by alaklondewen

Now, may I ask what kind of timeline we are looking at to start the process of finishing the first book?

I think the sooner the better. With this team assembled, it would be better to get going, and maintain some momentum.

[Orual]

I'm back, guys. Thanks for all your thoughts and prayers.

I'm ready to start when everybody else is!

[alaklondewen]

If we need to start soon, do we have a commitment from Feanor or Anguirel (or any of the new writers) to write Aeron's part, or should we all carry him through the completion of the first book and have someone pick him up in the second?

Orual, it's so good to see you back with us. I pray all is well.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm loathe to write a character that isn't mine. I've done it before with Kathaani Karibzir in Prisoner of Numenor but she never felt right without Soph and I was always nervous it wouldn't work right. Picture Viggo Mortenson's portrayal of Aragorn versus how it would have been if Sean Bean was cast. Same role, same lines, same position in the Fellowship... but every actor brings something different to the stage. I don't want to warp Aeron. I like him too much the way he is.

Also, my life took a very busy turn over the past couple weeks and I've got one more before it starts to smooth out. It won't be until next week that I'll be able to finish reading through the story thus far.

[littlemanpoet]

Perhaps we should consider getting in touch with Imladris? Maybe that circumstance which caused her departure from the Downs is not as big or overriding (whatever it was) as it was when she left?

[mark12_30]

Orual: Good to see you.

Aeron can be carried by old gamers until the new game begins. There is still time to decide who it will be.

EDIT: Cross-posted with lmp. lmp, please do, and let us know.

Important event:
lmp and I agree that we'd like Alaklondewen to take charge of the game, as essentially Third-In-Command, until and unless lmp's life or my life relaxes enough that we can do the job justice. (....might never happen!) I still must officially own the threads (both old and new) as the Gondorian game owner; but Alak will handle day-to-day leadership. lmp and I will be here and there, of course (lmp there, me here ) but Alak now has the reins. I am delighted; regardless of my availability or leack thereof, the game wants to go! So I thank God for Alak's willingness. With Alak as "Officer Of the Deck", the game may proceed-- full charge!


Book 1 and Book 2
The goal is to wrap up Book 1, leaving pointers to Book 2. With the new discussion thread, new team members may do the usual thing: bios, first posts if you like, etc. I think I will go ahead and open the new (Book 2) discussion thread. New team members, you now have a place to let loose. Please do!! Feel free to re-post any relevant information you have already put here; also feel free to toss out wild ideas, or even sane ones.

Old team--

With Alak's approval, I'm putting up a Mellondu/Erebemlin post on the old thread. Comments, questions, and ideas for your characters-- let 'em fly, or just go ahead and post. WOOOOOT!!

New Team so far:
Feanor of the Peredhil
Formendacil
Celuien
Firefoot

Character list as I understand it so far:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Character - - former writer - - keep or drop - - new writer?

Mellonin - - mark - - keep - - mark
Mellondu / Amroth - - mark - - keep - - mark
Nethwador - - mark - - keep - - mark
Raefindan / Imrazor - - LMP - - keep - - lmp
Mithrellas - - LMP - - keep - - lmp
Nimrodel - - mark - - keep - - lmp
Ædegard - - LMP - - keep - - lmp
Tharonwe - - LMP - - keep - - LMP
Taitheneb - - Alaklondewen - - keep - - Alaklondewen
Erebemlin - - Alaklondewen - - keep - - Alaklondewen
Ravion - - Orual - - keep - - Orual
Leafa - - Nuru - - keep - - Nurumaiel
Liornung - - Nuru - - keep-- Nurumaiel
Bella - - Aylwen - - Aylwen Dreamsong

Jorge - - many & various - - keep - - Formendacil?
Aeron - - Imladris - - ?
Gwyllion -- Imladris - - ?

New Characters:
Sæthryd - - Celuien
Rugh - - Firefoot
Bergil - - Formendacil

[mark12_30]

....someday I'll read it. But there's a handy summary at Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Four_Loves

These four concepts strike me as applicable concepts to this whole game.