Treachery of Men Discussion/Planning Thread

[Nogrod]

Okay, I have added my part to the action. I deleted the save and added my post to the end of the thread.

Please Gwath and Lalaith come in as well... like everyone else.

(yeah, I'm not in position to take the moral high ground here but after all we're in the middle of action so let's get on with it!)

[Gwathagor]

What needs to happen with Jord? I want to be sure I'm following the intended plot-line. I could kill some more people.....

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

I could kill some more people.....

I think Embla and Fastarr would need to get at least some time to live - to be able to make an attempt to find Tathren. And some of the Ulfing-lords might be interested in their lives as well.

But I do share the interest in the general plot line at this point. We are pretty near the end of the story, right?

Should we try to fex. unite the two Borrims with Thorn before this ends? It's also okay to me if Embla and Fastarr die in the forest as Huntha is already carrying the message of the treachery to the Borrims so the two might as well die - if it suits Lalaith to be sure.

How about the plots between the "princes"? Should they play them out themselves, have Jord taking part in it - or even the two Borrims and/or Tathren, Thorn?

And how about this "other gang", Dag and others? Is there a role for them in the unfolding of the last events?

[littlemanpoet]

I dunno, there's something romantic about lovers fleeing into the unknown together, surviving against all odds, finding happiness together despite the huge tragedy they couldn't avert. They don't have to die, but if you really want it; my idea, if you want it, is that Jord frames them for the murder of Lachrandir, and the ULfing lords hunt them unsuccessfully.

Thorn should have a chance to level his accusations against ULdor and Ulfast themselves before he is executed.

I think that Thorn and the two Borrim need not meet again.

Tathren (who will write him with Mithalwen not doing so?) will believe the framing, and take personal responsibility for getting the message back to Lord Caranthir that the Ulfings are to be trusted.

At least, that's what I'm suggesting. If you'd rather do something else, by all means.

[Noinkling]

Wow! I have a SAVE from January!!

Hmmmmmm.....well, I'll talk this all over with Pio and we'll see what we can come up with.

[Lalaith]

Well, Fastarr my dear, I don't mind if we live or die....I thought we could go back and live among the Bairka, if they'd have us, but hey, doing a tragic Babes in the Wood works for me too.
But I don't think anyone, Hunta or whoever else, should be carrying a message of treachery to the Borrim. Otherwise they would warn the elves at the battle.

We could get round that, as I suggested earlier, by the fact the Borrim force would have left for battle by the time any of us lot got back.


As for the Ulflings and their characteristics, here's what Ang said in the original planning:

Finally, a careful re-reading of "Of the Fifth Battle" reveals that the Ulfings who did not change sides in the Nirnaeth generally fled as best they could, discomfited by the lies and deceit filling their lives (paraphrase.) So this is another possible fate for those of you Ulfings who have good, but not especially brave, hearts

[Lalaith]

So what's happening, guys?

[Gwathagor]

I won't be able to post for several days as I'm going to be out in the woods shooting blanks at the ROTC cadets . I'll try to post after I get back.

I think Fastarr and Embla should escape, and you could all post that without me, if you like.

[Nogrod]

With regards to Embla and Fastarr I think it's your go now Lalaith.

I guess the two would try to get away from both Jord and the Ulfings and to find Tathren. They probably are the only humans who know the truth now so would the others let them get away?

If you write them at least beginning an escape - and if we get some reactions to that from the other parties (Ulfings and Jord) ie. whether they concentrate on dealing with each other or whether some of them try to catch our characters - I could then continue.

Is that okay?

[littlemanpoet]

Fastarr and Embla should not find Tathren, who will always be in the company of the Ulfing lords until he leaves for Caranthir. After all, Tathren must not have any doubts about the Ulfings and must bring a positive report in their regard to Caranthir. I meeting between Fastarr and Embla and him would compromise that.

Thorn awaits his confrontation with the Ulfing lords (who will interrogate him with Tathren not around), and for that I need Folwren to post.

[Nogrod]

I thought it as well that Embla and Fastarr should not find Tathren but still searching for him is the option for them now as Lachrandir is dead and most of their friends either dead or gone. Just a minute... they don't yet know Khandr is dead. If they can't find Tathren from the forest then they should try to find Khandr.

Should fex. someone be sent to finish them off so that they would run for their lives and thus not be able to find Tathren? Maybe reaching their horses and going for Khandr then only to find him dead?

Just suggestions. I will not have time to write anything within a week I'm afraid as my scheduals look downright frustrating. But if you Lalaith could take the two a bit forwards I could then continue. And others as well, feel free to fex. send someone after the two.

[Finduilas]

Folwrens got chicken pox, so that's why she hasn't been 'round. Just thought you guys might like to know where she disappeared to...

[Lalaith]

I've been away for a few days but I'm back now and will post in the next day or two.
Hope Folwren is ok. Getting chickenpox when you're older can be nasty.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

Fastarr and Embla should not find Tathren, who will always be in the company of the Ulfing lords until he leaves for Caranthir. After all, Tathren must not have any doubts about the Ulfings and must bring a positive report in their regard to Caranthir. I meeting between Fastarr and Embla and him would compromise that.

Okay, if this is the case, then I need you, Elempi, to edit an earlier post and take out the place where it says that Tathren followed Lachrandir when Lachrandir took Embla and Fastarr away. Tathren will remain behind with the Ulfings. That way, no one except the two Borrim will have witness the killing.

I can try to write Tathren if you do not want to, Elempi.

-- Folwren

EDIT: I posted as though Tathren remained behind. If you wish to keep your earlier post the way it is, I can re-write mine, but I don't see how anything would work if Tathren actually saw what happened. Jord would probably kill him.

[littlemanpoet]

I've altered post # 232 as you suggested, Foley.

Foley, Uldor doesn't know who or what killed Lachrandir. He would naturally assume a "who" instead of a "thing", and he would most likely suspect the Borrim. Otherwise, great post.

[Folwren]

Aha. There. I have changed it - better?

Thanks for editing your earlier post.

-- Folwren

[Gwathagor]

Jord has returned to the settlement and is about to find out (somehow...) that Thorn is trouble and needs to die.

[littlemanpoet]

"Her dress was dirty." That cracked me up, especially set off against all the dire evil.

[Lalaith]

Ok Noggie. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether we live or die.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Lalaith

Ok Noggie. I'll leave it up to you to decide whether we live or die.

Aren't you afraid you're giving your "brother" a bit too much leeway?

Okay. As this is going to end pretty soon - correct me owners of the game if I'm wrong here - so I will come up with something nice either tomorrow or on Sunday.

I think the two deserve a nice ending though... be it a romantic death or something more JamesBond-like...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

"Her dress was dirty." That cracked me up, especially set off against all the dire evil.

Oh good. I'm glad the irony of that wasn't lost on everyone.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by Gwath

Oh good. I'm glad the irony of that wasn't lost on everyone.

To ease your uncertainty, it did make me smile as well...

[Gwathagor]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

To ease your uncertainty, it did make me smile as well...

[Lalaith]

I enjoyed the dirty dress too.... but isn't it, technically speaking, deliberate bathos rather than irony?

And, Brother Nog, I await your James Bond and/or tragic finale with bated breath.

[Gwathagor]

What's bathos?

[piosenniel]

HERE

ba•thos (noun)

1.) a ludicrous descent from the exalted or lofty to the commonplace; anticlimax.

2.) insincere pathos; sentimentality; mawkishness.

3.) triteness or triviality in style.

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[Origin: 1630–40; < Gk: depth ]

—Synonyms: maudlinness, tearfulness; mush, gush, schmaltz; insipidity, inanity.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

[Gwathagor]

Huh, ok. Maybe it was bathos then. I don't know.

[littlemanpoet]

Leave it in. Considering such chapters as "Flotsam and Jetsam" in LotR, Tolkien purposely descended to bathos himself often enough; all he needed was Pippin to achieve it.

Any thoughts, Gwath, on how Jord figures out that Thorn is her final problem top be rid of? It's kind of tough: Khandr's dead and Fastarr and Embla are fugitives. The only other person to hear his foretelling words was that other member of the Borrim house, the npc whose name escapes me. Does Jord have any mental "Osanwe" types of skills? Or are we going to simply have to have a deductive approach to this?

[Gwathagor]

Perhaps Jord finds out about Thorn through Uldor. It's been a while since they spoke, and Jord has some manipulating to do. It could come up in conversation.

[Folwren]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Perhaps Jord finds out about Thorn through Uldor. It's been a while since they spoke, and Jord has some manipulating to do. It could come up in conversation.

By the time Jord finds anything out about Thorn through Uldor, she won't have to do anything about him. Uldor will have taken care of all the details.

I thought Thorn was my character's duty to dispose of?

[Gwathagor]

Ok. Well, the main problem with Thorn is that he might tell Uldor about Jord's evil badness. Perhaps Jord should take care of this problem by convincing Uldor that Thorn is lying and needs to die. That has potential - gives Jord a chance to flex her manipulative muscles and show that she has more than one way of disposing of her foes. What do you think, LMP?

[littlemanpoet]

All right, I'll fess up. I was getting impatient - again! - with the pace of this rpg so I hatched a plan to Gwath to have Jord kill off Thorn, the only problem being how Jord was to find out who Thorn was and what he's been up to. What ever way this turns out, let's make it interesting! JOrd should manipulate Uldor - and Ulfast too. It's part of the set up.

[Lalaith]

Gwathagor, I hope you don't misunderstand me, I meant nothing but compliments with regard to the bathos.

I meant it as the first of pio's definitions, and when used deliberately, it is very funny. It is a fine literary device and some of the world's best writers such as Alexander Pope and Cervantes have used it to great effect.

[Gwathagor]

That's OK, that's what I figured.

[Mithalwen]

I just wanted to say sorry.

I never meant to abandon this and I do realise I must look like I had a terrible sulk but I work for an agency and in the Autumn I took on what I thought would be an easy two month assignment but turned into six incredibly demanding months (went in as assistant and ended up covering for the Financial controller from the new year, with a myriad of issues ) and usually 2 to 3 hour a day in the car. And then there were various illnesses and accidents ... I know I have been around the downs but I just haven't been able to do anything that requires much concentration and I just seem to have lost any creativity I ever had.
And it got to the point I was so embarassed that I couldn't even look at the thread...

Anyway I don't expect or deserve forgiveness and obviously you can do as you will with my abandoned child though if it helps he would have been extremely affected the death of Lachrandir who was a kind of father figure to him, and I always expected he would wind up as one of the many dead of the Nirnaeth should you do an epilogue.

[Folwren]

Mith! Your apology is of course very, very muchly accepted! I'm sorry to hear life has been so insanely busy for you. 3 hours in the car a day would be the worst part of it for me. I hope things calm down for you and you'll be able to sit back someday and join another RPG and really get to participate.

Thank you for your input on how Tathren would take this tragedy. If you wish to write for him until he leaves the game, then I would be so, so happy.

-- Folwren

[littlemanpoet]

I agree with Foley. Mithalwen, it would be great if you could write Tathren for the rest of this rpg.

[Mithalwen]

Thank you .. I felt so terrible about this ... I do like to see things through usually. Life has calmed down a lot for the moment so unless I am completely blocked I will try. I'll try to catch up tonight or tomorrow.

[Folwren]

Oh, no, no! You're not completely (or even halfway) blocked, by ANY means. If you want, someone could give you a summary of what has happened and what the current plans are, so you wouldn't have to read through both threads all the way, and you could concentrate more on reading the game thread.

-- Folwren

[Mithalwen]

I meant writer's block actually not blocked by other characters.

I certainly don't expect anyone to alter their stuff for me.

Future plans would help ... and current ones .. I would prefer to concentrate on the game thread since I will end up not seeing the wood for the trees.