Tapestry of Dreams, Part 2 Discussion

[littlemanpoet]

I need you to post for Nimrodel and others, they're initial reactions to Maegeleb showing up. I imagine the renewal effect will work upon his appearance as well, and he will begin to appear younger than he now is also.

Feel free to carry on action and interaction as you wish, and then I'll be happy to take it up again.

[littlemanpoet]

I've posted for Maegeleb.

[mark12_30]

Okay, it took a long time (sorry) but Nimrodel has noticed his appearance.

[littlemanpoet]

I fear a plot contradiction emerging in regard to Amroth. Please tell me if you've thought about this. Amroth's spirit (fea) cannot weaken, it seems to me; but the body in which he dwells does weaken. The fea of Amroth may be limited by the weakness of the body of Mellondu, and the frustration would thus be growing and lending even greater energy to Amroth; such that Mellondu is weakened more quickly. However, I see you writing Amroth as weakening, and that doesn't seem quite in keeping with my understanding of Tolkien's set up. Please let me know your thoughts.

[mark12_30]

Originally Posted by littlemanpoet

I fear a plot contradiction emerging in regard to Amroth. Please tell me if you've thought about this. Amroth's spirit (fea) cannot weaken, it seems to me; but the body in which he dwells does weaken. The fea of Amroth may be limited by the weakness of the body of Mellondu, and the frustration would thus be growing and lending even greater energy to Amroth; such that Mellondu is weakened more quickly. However, I see you writing Amroth as weakening, and that doesn't seem quite in keeping with my understanding of Tolkien's set up. Please let me know your thoughts.

What I'm thinking is that he is less and less "sent". He has been on Mandos' leash for the whole quest. Mandos is calling him back, slowly pulling (leaking? leaching?) him back into his own halls. Amroth feels it, mysteriously, but neither understands that nor can he quite express that, since Mandos is, and has been, all but hidden from him except for that one awful headache-inducing slip on Mandos' part. Whenever he begins to remember the thousand years interval between his drowning and the present, Mandos clouds it again.

If Amroth were dying in battle, like Feanor, he'd burn brighter, I think. But even as he somehow senses that his quest is nearing completion, he knows his time here is ending. Since there are no more ships that will sail west (he thinks-- remember his was the "last ship" then in order to go west, he must die. So must she. His question is will Nimrodel follow him or not. He knows (somehow) that his time is ending. She will either recieve him, or not.

In Mandos, is he brightening? I don't know. Maybe. In hope that they will be together soon.

It would be good, I guess, to have him blaze up as he dies. Will that consume Mellondu? But I want Mellondu to live.

I don't think I will write the "Lo, thus waketh Amroth in the halls of Mandos, and sayeth, Twas but a dream!" It doesn't fit. I think he will be waiting & hoping to be "reincarnated", and Nimrodel with him. I imagine Taitheneb reminding them to meet by the such-and-such stream in Lorien once theyy are of age. Maybe Taitheneb will utter it as an elegy of sorts once they are gone.

[mark12_30]

HOWEVER-- you've explained logically and thoroughly why Taitheneb and Erebemlin are so flummoxed that he IS 'fading'. I'll have them discuss it. That should clear part of it up, and the other part... hmm, how WILL I explain it? Food for thought. Perhaps Avarien will get a burst of insight.

Or Raefindan.

Hoom hom.

[littlemanpoet]

What if Maegeleb doesn't give Nimrodel the song?

[mark12_30]

THen she'll comb for it, and eventually comb through Amroth's mind too. She can taste the freedom in it (in the hints of the song) , and she's hunting in earnest now.

[littlemanpoet]

You removed a post! I was going to base my next one off of it! Haalp!

[mark12_30]

..... I what?????

[mark12_30]

The last post has three parts. Were you thinking of the part in the middle?

[mark12_30]

In rereading it, I just noticed: Now that she has stepped outside of it, besides Maegeleb, Nimrodel is the only main character outside the circle. Did Indil's parents join the dance? Maybe she's the only one outside the circle at all except Maegeleb.

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, I misread. New post up.

[mark12_30]

Perhaps Mithrellas gets her say next?

[littlemanpoet]

Me speak for Mithrellas? Whoa! That would require wisdom and constancy and forgiveness and seeing something greater going on than - as big as it is - the mere transformation of the Amroth/Nimrodel tragedy into eucatastrophe. (is that even possible?) Hmmm....

Any ideas are most welcome!

[mark12_30]

Let's paint it and move on. It'll be a marker and if you want to come back with something profound it'll be there. I'll give it a shot.

[littlemanpoet]

That was ..... profound! Keep it going. I'm spectating right now. You have this firmly under control. Keep going until you need something from me and let me know.

[mark12_30]

Noldorin: ?.

Amdir is the father I'm 'using'. Some sources say Amroth was of the "Nandor". If he is really Nandorin, I have some tweaking to do. However "Nandorin" doesn't quite blend with the argument Amroth and Nimrodel had about the Warmongering Intruder Elves coming across the Misty Mountains and ruining it for the rest of us peaceful Silvans.

I'll have to double check that when i get back to my copy of Unfinished Tales.

Maybe I have "Son of Galadriel and Celeborn" on the brain. Tolkien rejected that, as do I, although I admit to toying with the idea of "Godmother" or "Nanny" or some other motherly form of influence that might tie the two contradictory parenting lines together. Auntie Galadriel?

Have patience with me, I'm thrashing....

[mark12_30]

Sindarin.

...I knew that...

[mark12_30]

Woof.

Okay, Maegeleb has had his last scream, Nimrodel has defied him, and now Nimrodel and Amroth are once again at the drowning. Now I have to decide whether she learns about Mandos now or later. Later, I think. She needs to get a flyby of the quest but I think she can get that from Erebemlin, or Taitheneb; in a sentence or maybe a paragraph, a post at the max unless there is something more in-depth you want to do with that. Otherwise, she's about to declare that Amroth is True.

She still hasn't heard the song of the stream yet. I haven't forgotten it. I think, after all, it may heal Amroth as much (more?) than it heals Nimrodel.

There should be some more Faerie yet to come, when she does sing it. What else do we need to pull together, and do we want it pulled together when she sings?

[mark12_30]

.....it's vewy vewy quiet.....

[mark12_30]

I think I'm missing several things. Halp-- Critiques please?

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry, I've been preoccupied the last couple days.

The only thing I can think of as missing might be tying in all the various characters - but are they not at ths point pretty much observers?

The one exception seems to be the trio of Raefindan, Mithrellas, and (especiallly) Indil who seems to be growing (pardon the pun) by leaps and bounds as this story reaches its climax. But I'm not sure where this will go. What do you have in mind by having her grow so fast?

Oh, and one more thing. Maybe Maegeleb is done, but I'm not quite sure Tharonwé is. Right now he is merely pathetic. That can't be the end. There is malevolence that got stopped by Raefindan and then buried by the vision of Nimrodel (and the faint hope of winning her); now that that is dashed, Maegeleb (like Smeagol) recedes and Tharonwë wants revenge. I'm not sure how yet. Not sure how he can breka free from Raefindan unless there is outside assistance.

I don't suppose that's helping much with your thought process, but these are just things swirling in my head.

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, that last post was before I read all of yours. You've been busy!
It's really very good. Moving!

Tharonwé has already spoken. He need not speak anymore. You've done well in using him.

I'm ready for the story to continue. I love how you've woven Taitheneb back in - with the story of his father and uncle. Clever!

[mark12_30]

I would still like to consider that Tharonwe (as he gets worserer and worserer) be an integral part of some sort of reversal. Wouldn't it be amazing if he still, somehow -- somehow-- repented? I know, not totally pure Tolkien, but-- even Tolkien longed for it, with Gollum.

Nimrodel has renounced Tharonwe and thinks she is safe from his wiles now, but once Amroth departs, and Erebemlin and Taitheneb are exhausted, and all eyes are on Nimrodel to see what she will do-- he will have another opportunity. I imagine Raefindan will be reticent to interfere at that time, because this is really a test for Nimrodel. So she needs to be able to stand against Tharonwe. There may perhaps be one last firestorm.

How will Tharonwe come out of it?

Oh. Indil growing-- she's just responding to the passing of the seasons, namely while Nimrodel wept over her faithlessnes to Mithrellas. Enchantment covered all of them and the time flew by, but still, a year went by, Faerie style (Mellondu and Mellonin and all the Rohirrim and mortals will return home after years, not months) and it grew Indil (and visibly aged the now wretched Maegeleb).

The only growth spurts she needs to have will correspond to any more winters and summers. I'm not sure whether we will need any more or not.

[mark12_30]

Afterthought: ....But Indil's growth need not be ONLY from the passing of time. Your call. Would you like to do something with it? Could be profound. What does Angela think of all this? Striking any chords in her?

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, I get it now. I like it. Wow! A whole year goes by and they don't even know it!?!? How are they fed? .... or does Faerie take care of that?

As to Angela/Indil, wow. That threatens to strike deep chords in me. I don't know what's there but whatever it is, is powerful and dangerous to touch somehow - but that's my


- - - oh.


It seems to have to do with my oldest sister who was stillborn. Wow. I didn't realize until right now that that's who Angela is. At least that's the connection for me. Which makes me wonder, who is Roy? Something to mull about.

Tharonwë can be that evil. I sort of see him possessed by something beyond/worse than he originally was . . . some evil minor Maia?

[mark12_30]

Amazing what this stirs, isn't it? The 'old' Nimrodel and I have, or had, too much in common...

Yes-- Faerie takes care of all that. Recall that Melian and Elwe Singollo (Thingol) stood in the forest together enchanted (by each other? By Melian?) for years while the -- was it the Teleri? -- Searched for him, never found him, and departed without him.

BUt I really took it from George MacDonald. He uses it over and over again.

[mark12_30]

I think I need to backfit a thing or two in the last couple of posts. She can't sing just yet-- something isn't finished-- without one or two more things getting tied together...

[mark12_30]

I know I haven't posted. I know I have to make something happen. I just... can't. At the moment.

[littlemanpoet]

I can wait. I don't visit the Downs so much anymore, soon to be done. So I have my email set to be notified whenever someone posts on a subscribed thread, of which I have just 4. So I can wait.

[littlemanpoet]

Not really sure what I can do to help this along right now...

[mark12_30]

Nor am I... don't feel bad.

Also... Home computer is broke for now. Patience?

As the stream builds, so will she. But I'm still missing parts of hte picture.

[mark12_30]

lmp,

what an awesome sig.

The stream still calls to me. Work is insanely busy, however. But the stream still flows from the mountainsides. Just a trickle at first...

[littlemanpoet]

Good to "hear" from you again, Helen.

The sig is from a song by David Ruis. Google his name and some of the lyrics and you can read the full lyrics. It's an amazing song of hope and perseverance.

I'm done with Scarburg now. Tapestry and PMs are my only involvement at BD now. TID is moving forward very slowly, but it's moving.

I'm going to have to find time myself to reaquaint (sp?) myself with Tapestry as time allows.

[littlemanpoet]

So yes, I've been thinking about what I could possibly do to add to the story at this point, and finally hit upon something that would not interfere yet might even serve as an enrichment. I hope you like it. Be blessed!

[littlemanpoet]

The circle dance of solemn joy reminds me of worship.

[littlemanpoet]

Wow! We're nearing the end, then. Is there anything you would like me to write about?

[mark12_30]

"Happily ever afters" will have to come after the ending, for those to whom it applies, anyway.

The rohirrim feel sadly neglected but my focus is on the elvish center.

So I guess... act on inspiration if and when you have it.... otherwise, the stream continues its seaward rush.

Sarn Gebir Rapids, and then Rauros, and then the broad sweep to the sea... You are right, it's coming fast.

[piosenniel]

Lovely, lovely writing, the both of you!!!

A joy to read!

~*~ Pio