Are You Writing Serious Fantasy?

[the guy who be short]

Firstly, are your places similar to any on Earth. For example - Tolkien's Shire is supposed to be similar to England.

lets see... no, i dont think there are any dwarves living under mountains anywhere in the world! i havent really thought about it, theyre just made up realms from thousands of years ago (like jrrt)

Secondly, How civilised to you make the people that inhabit your world? I would say that Tolkien's characters were sort of around 13th Century in English terms.

considering they are the first ever humans, extremely civilised! they are primitive (as in, swords and axes, not fridges and tvs), but they are fairly noble. like the knights of the dark ages id say.

Thirdly - if you have used elves how have you portrayed them? Terry Pratchett portrays elves as forces of evil, greedy and malicious, but Tolkien portrays them as a gentle and advanced people.

no elves, but ive already describedthe greedy, yet often good dwarves. the tree people are fairly evil. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

speaking of names for dragons (im on page 9, ok?), ive decided not to have my acquaintances jumbled up name for my dragon. thassam jonane (samantha jones) is just not noble! something harsh and evil sounding, thats what i need. tharashnane?
strange... i hadnt read your post, lmp, but my dragon name still had "tha" in it! oh well, guess thats not really a very interesting coincidence.

what plot device gets your story going? A tip in the balance of power, as Niphredil thinks, or is it something else? Are there better and worse plot devices? overused and hackneyed ones?

i think the "rebellious angel" is much overused. but hey, you need an evil angel. i think it is a tip in the balance of power, since god cannot destroy Naivag, as the angel is a part of him. so he has to abandon Earth, so Naivag becomes the most powerful person. well... thing.

i am writing a fantasy novel, and anything i come up with that is similar to tolkien, i change.

if you keep this up you wont have a novel [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
jrrt incorporated a little of everything into his epic, so i dont think theres anything wrong with copying him. even jk rowling did it, and she is a great author.

i cant distinguish ME or Neremorn- a fantasy world- from our own.

ME is our earth- just in the past. in past days they used to call it middle earth. i frequently go around telling people middle earth exists, because theres a (very slim) chance everything in LotR is true!

sighs... 8 and a half pages. you know, itd b a lot shorter withut the drinks. but wheres the fun in that? |_|)

this is strange. i have yet to complete the 2nd chapter of my poem, but im planning the 3rd book already! itll be set in the future, where god (who, if you hadnt already guessed, gives up on earth and goes off into space with his angels) gets tired of just hanging about in space. i thought of that in music. its all ive got so far. heres something interesting- in my poem, its black vs. white, yet in its sequel there will be shades of grey.

[littlemanpoet]

Me? I know more about this than others? Uh, not really. It might be worth it to ask and see if the mods are willing to let us open a new thread of the same ilk. By the way, "closed" doesn't mean "gone", it just means "sorry, you can't post here anymore". At least, that's been my experience.

Just wanted to say, I'm really, really intrigued by Faramir Fan's project. Of course, the others sound really fun, too! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[the guy who be short]

I like the idea of starting a war by pulling a chunk of country into the ocean.

how would this start a war? unless you sink a city or something...
i like the idea f a war between the sexes. perhaps i should put this in my poem as a reason why one of the species are dead.

themes-
good vs. evil

um. thats it. there are probably more, but thats what its basically all about.

1. a fellowship kinda thing. a group of people from many different walks of life who battle a common enemy. Most include a wizard, and elf, and an orphan
2. a battle against an ancient evil. most worlds have had a dark past with the reign of a dark lord (acually mine had no dark lord, but for ages the world lived in fear of a sleeping darkness). Now that dark lord seems to be returning to power and the fellowship must stop it.

mine is set at the beginning of the world, with the evil just coming into power. but in the sequel i wont have a fellowship. actually, i dont think this is essential, just the dark lord is. i mean, a dark lord can be stopped by a big enough army, not only a fellwoship. or you could stab him or something. theres a number of different ways.

thanks for the support lothiriel. and when i am rich i shall still be a geek. i embrace that and use it to my advantage. thats the kind of person i am very resoursefull and alaways planning ahead. I shall be an example of what a geek can do and inspire others to do something with thier geekiness.thanks

we geeks shall rule theworld. i mean, it takes a geek to actually sit down and write a book. you need to have a wide vocabulary, understand sentence and paragraph structure... theres alot you need that a normal un-geek will never have. if you look on other threads ive visited, youll see im trying to get an uprising of geeks so that we can set up a tolkienite regime. not many people respond.
KEEP BEING A GEEK! [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

there is a darkside to being a geek too. a very dark side......

is this starting a war in your school between you and any jock except those you like? and dumbases who take advantage of you and use you for answers? because ive started one in my school. well, war is so strong... unrest. why do they all want to harm me?

NazgulNumber10, your a great poet, for want of a much more extreme word. my lazy brain is shtting down at thi time of night. anyway, can i read some more? ive only read that one poem, but it was sooo good. im a poet too (or try to be) but youre a genius.

ok, back on track. How do you feel about religon in fantasy? is there one major, or do different cultures have their own. Or, are there no traces of religon at all.

abandoner god. for some reason, some humans still worship him. others worship particular manell.

must go, its 10 and my sister demands her room back

[Mattius]

Hey I thought I would get my post in before the thread gets closed down, if it does that is! I haven't read ALL of the past 20 pages but have several.

How have you dealt with the temptation to be imitative of Tolkien?

Its hard, believe me it really is. I thought long and hard before putting pen to paper (or finger to key as the case may be) but decided that I really needed/wanted something Tolkein-esque without being a complete rip off of his works. After much deliberation I decided on something. As Tolkien's mythologies are based in our history and on Earth, not some other planet or fantasy world I would do something similar. My work would be based on Earth too but in the future (eww I HATE that word- so sci-fi-ish!). My idea would be that the world has changed and civalisation has taken several thousand steps backwards for whatever reason- could be mass nuclear war, disease whatever- the reader makes up their own mind. I do not want to get bogged down in science and technical stuff about how life came to be this way, in my works it just is. Phew, so therefore the world is in a medevil style environment in which I can work in without having to deal with our history.

How long have you been working on your story, and why?

I have been working on it on and off for a few months. Why I do it- for my own pleasure, I don't really think people would like to read it and I'd probably be too ashamed to let them anyway. I allow my imagination to run wild when bored- it happens a lot, trust me- I work in a shop.

What pitfalls have you faced and how have you overcome them - or not?

The major pitfall is my own pessamism. I may write something like eight pages, come back to it a week later, hate it then delete it all. I also am short of time at times with exams and real life comming first.

[the guy who be short]

Anyway, I had a stroke of idea! What if the person everyone thought was their main enemy, the one they set out to destroy, was a mistake? And the thing/person was actually in fact a good person, and became a member of the party, and the whole party was feared?

thatd cause confusion. if everybody thought he was evil, and he wa only travelling with a small band of friends, wouldnt somebody try to kill him?

saruman from lotr. He was nothing but a pawn of saruon, a pawn that reached the end of his row. He was a shadow of something greater and desired that same power.

this reminds me - and brings the topic onto somethingrelated to lotr! - if gandalf and sauron were both maia, couldnt gandalf just fight and topple him? or, if it wasnt allowed, saruman when he turned evil? or was sauron the most powerful maia or something?

while i do have religons in my story, i feel it is important to remain neutral while describing them and their fallowers.

i dont remain neutral - i take an anti-god side (not meaning to offend anyone) because in my poem he abandons humanity to evil, and just skips off. plus, he bans the manell (angels) from visiting humans. i mean, what is the point? so he abandons humanity, why does he have to make sure no one else saves it? (acually, i should know the answer to that. lol [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] )

Puts some real oomph in "Namaste" (The Divine in me honors the Divine in you)...

cool! are you indian? or gujarati? anyway, back on topic...

I know JRR Tolkien didn't have a romance in Lord of the Rings

elessar and arwen? or, to a lesser extent, sam and rosie?

What about making up languages? Do you think that adds to a story, or just complicates it?

i tried my own language, and made a whole map and dictionary (if you can call a page a dictionary) and then i decided it was far too complicated, so i scrapped it all. i think yur own language would be ok in prose work, but not in a poem, where, i think, you have less space to devote to geography. or maybe its just me. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

Poetry: do you use it in your story? How much? What kind? Formal? Free verse? Do you imitate Tolkien with yours? How do you know when your poetry enhances your story? Can you tell when it fails to enhance it? How? Care to share some of your story poetry here?

lol, my entire story is poetry. its very copied from lotr, with the same tolkienesque style, plus i use some words he invented, like quoth and thralls! i may have to delete these so its less obvious abut my copying...
i can tell when it fails because i send it to several friends and force them to force me to alter bits they dont like.

a sample:
The Earth has seen so many things, of which it does not tell,
Of the mighty dinosaurs, what ancient fate befell?
We know not, and we care not, for it is no concern of ours,
What happened in those dark and long-forgotten hours,
Yet here I tell a tale that is worthy of your ears,
A history, our history; what befell in ancient years.

I God’s Creation of the Manell and Ou

The One who is Many and Many in One
Decided that there was work to be done
It who was first and by many names known;
In Its mind a vast vision was shown,
Of things that could happen, wonders that could be,
It could use its powers to create beauty!
The Endless Void, blackness dull,
It could make it beautiful!

And so then God, known also as The One,
A great and mighty work begun.
First It made the angels high,
Who once dwelt up above the sky,
And wouldst still dwell there if ‘twas not
For Naivag Leeb who is now forgot
For not all God’s angels true remained,
In one angel’s heart, treachery reigned;
Naivag Leeb was his name,
Fire Spirit, hard to tame.

thats about 20 lines i think, from the beginning. LMP, im emailing it to you as soon as i can find time.

Ahhhh. 'His Dark Materials'. I adored those books so very much . . . His Dark Materials is ignored, and it's the one that violently attacks Christian conceptions

sorry, this is completely off topic, but... i read that trilogy and loved it. i also dont know why its been ignored. it says god is evil! lol, my extremely religious friend says hes going to read it...
ah... back on topic! yes... i guess there might be controversy (is that the right word) when my poem is published, because god is a weakling who abandons humanity.

That trilogy I mentioned above was "His Dark Materials" by Philip Pullman. The first volume is called "The Golden Compass",

i dont know if it was called this, and it was probably referring to the alethiometer (sp?), but it is now called northern lights.

Phillip Pullman's series is wonderful, very well written. As it's set in an alternate world

its set in several worlds, one of them is ours, and it is god hes dissing in general, not just any one religion, though i think perhaps christianity would feel the impact more.

ill be back to read from page 13 onwards. and ive been here for half an hour longer than i shouldve been, and i really have to do history homework now. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] who does that teacher think she is, tearing me away from the downs?

[ April 30, 2003: Message edited by: the guy who be short ]

[the guy who be short]

How much time do you spend, either directly or peripherally, thinking about your stories? Planning for them? Plotting?

most of my school lesson time ,lol! lets see... not much really. but thats because i know the bit im writing now. or do i? i need to spend a bt of time working on my plot.
i think as soon as the sats are over ill be spending lots of time on it.

i dont have mithril but i have adamant, a tough metal only dwarves can forge.

Have you found, since you started writing that you percieve things differenlty - for example, when gazing absently out of the window, do you see a motorway and a pile of dustbins (for example) or do you see them as potential for a great idea for one of your scenes? Do you see Crows or a new species of bird native only to the area where your story is set?

i was looking at my friends spiky hair and i thought... how about a story with nits in somebodies hair? all the spikes are war towers! may still use it.
when i see dustbins i think: how did my people dispose of waste. actually thats a good question. and one thatll be hard to ansswer. thank you very much [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img]

im half way through page 14... this is so long!

i was writing part of my poem at school, but im extremely shy when people read my work in front of me. so i wrote it in cirth runes (angerthas moria!) question: are you strangely like me? you dont mind people reading your work, but not in front of you? or if your shy, do you do it in cirth/tengwar when working around others?

[The Only Real Estel]

HOLY S***! 806 posts! That's got to be some sort of record! No, I'm not writing any fantasy, although I'm sure if I were I'd be kinda tough to resist the temptatipon to copy a bit of Tolien, he stole all the good ideas anyway! [img]smilies/cool.gif[/img]

[the guy who be short]

If so, how have you dealt with the temptation to be imitative of Tolkien?
-------------------------------------------------
With great, humungous, amazing difficulty. Especially since in one of my worlds, I have a race of elves.

i deliberately left out elves as i thought that would definitely give away that i was... er... basing my work on tolkien (not copying!)
plus my dwarves are bald!
ive forgotten who it was with the dog sized dragons, but, well, being an author i need to scavenge! could i use that idea please? i havent decided yet, but i would either have them as a new race or the children of the dragons, who for some reason are very small. i await your response.

thread has me on a MAJOR inspiration high.

same! you expert 40-something year olds have great experience, and im really thankful for everybodies advice. plus i get ideas from your ideas. like the dragonettes i want in my poem...

I was just wondering, do you write your story up straight onto the computer, or do you do several drafts on paper and then type it up? Which ever way you do it, is there a particular reason why you do it that way and not the other?

on a very rough exercise book first. and i mean rough. ts front cover has fallen off. this is where i write my first version of my poem. then i revise it a bit, and put it onto microsoft word, because its tidier, plus i can email it to people. i also have a large notebook where i roughly note down my ideas when i get them.

Plus, I type very, very fast, and generally type faster than I write

i type extremely quickly too, as in i cant see my hands properly! but i also write extremely quickly, but extremely untidily. this is why i keep my "proper copy" on my computer, because its actually readable. i read that jrrt would also write quickly and untidily, so that his work becomes indecipherable in places, even to himself.

heres a question... do you think jrrt wouldve used a computer if theyd been available back then? id say probably not, since he hated new industrial things.

70-80 WPM

you count the words per minute? i will do that soon...

I like inventing swearwords. ::blushes:: No, really . . .swears, curses and other exclamations.

i use insults from books, such as: fool of a took! those of you who have read macbeth will know the insult: thou cream faced loon. i like using both. then, one day, i said: cream faced loon of a took! it is my new insult. i know its not really inventing, but it is from famous works.

I like making religions too, though I am a little afraid of creating gods and goddesses as I tend to start beleiving what I right too much.

well whos to say your made up creations arent actually real? theres a minute chance. perhaps manwe and varda and iluvatar exist. perhaps my version of the creaton story is actually true.

i mst go now... part way throuh page 15. soon i will finish...

[the guy who be short]

this is in bold so you look at it! its an important question. did you start writing because of jrr tolkien?
i did, because i wanted another work as complete as his, even if it wasnt as good.

We discuss "the temptation to be imitative of Tolkien" -- IN WHAT SENSE?! Writing style? Plot conventions? Using Elves, Dwarves, Orcs and ancient kingdoms?

i am imitative in writing style, definitely.
i have ancient kingdoms (well, theyre not ancient yet, theyve only just been created, but they will be ancient) i have dwarves that lust for gold (but theyre bald!) and dragons. no elves or orcs, i think thatd just be too obvious.

Oh no, my world must not have elves, that would be imitating Sir Tolkien" is just so much dwarf's bread I want to smack them.

what if elves arent needed for the storyline? see, i have two reasons not to have them.

I really have a problem with my history. As I said, it's supposed(sp?) to be like the Sil, but I'm really bad at telling legends, and I don't know where to start - anybody has any ideas?

this was posted about a year ago, but anyway. my poem is also strongly based on the sil. how about starting off with a creation story, creation of earth, men, and any other creatures you have. you can then go from there.

I am now very glad that I did not type up my story without a written copy - someone has selectively gone through my computer deleting all my coursework and my story. If I had not written all my story down 2 years of work would have gone

what kind of monster would do such a thing? i shudder just thinking of it! eugh! well, theres a lesson in this: keep a floppy. il be borrowing one from my sister.

When you are writing, you usually have so many ideas you want to write several different stories. But you can't be focusing on more than one, so what do you do with all your ideas? Keep them for later, or is there fear that you will forget your ideas or stroke of creativity?

write them in a notebook for later use.

I have a question for you guys about characters. What are your characters based on, physically and emotionally? Why are their pasts the way they are?

their names come from jumbling up my friends names. they are based on people from the sil. or from my mind.

Forbidden Romance should only go if it's a cliche, Lila -- if you can put a new spin on it by all means write it

question: how can forbidden romance not be the cliche version? ah... idea. thank you!

we as authors have to be willing to detach ourselves and actually let -- or make -- the characters suffer a bit

gladly [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] i have sooo much evilness planned, its just unbelievable. youd think i was bent on destruction and death of good things, and on evil... first, i have a kingdom destroyed, all but about 600 people, perhaps less... then another kingdom, this time only about 200 people escape... then a few civil wars in the surviving good kingdoms, and one is broken up and its people turn into refugees as evil assails them... im sooo evil! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
anyway, killing/harming characters is not a problem with me. then again, i dont really get to know the people i kill. perhaps if it was somebody i knew, i might care more. probably not! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]
be back for page 17... this is slw going, eh? soon i will catch up...!

[littlemanpoet]

Yes, I started writing because of J.R.R. Tolkien, but also because of C.S. Lewis and Charles Williams. All three were members of The Inklings, a group of friends and writers who got together once or twice a week to drink beer and read their stories to each other. They spent their time either in Lewis' rooms at Oxford, or at a back room at "The Eagle and Child", nick named "The Bird and Baby". All three have a powerful influence on my story. From Tolkien I tkae the need to evoke Wonder, and of "feigned history"; from Williams I take the rituals of light and dark and the idea of the supernatural thriller; from Lewis, not so much anymore as it used to be. My used-to-be favorite work of his, which is the least favorite of many, is "That Hideous Strength", which is the work most heavily influenced by Williams. My current favorite of Lewis is Till We Have Faces. It IS is best.

I don't have Elves because I have the gods and goddesses (and their children) of the mythologies of the world (well, SOME of the mythologies of the world, namely the ones that most interest me AND are most useful to my story).

I do have a post-creation story, very heavily King James style, that never got finished, but lays out the whole basis for my mythos.

Uh oh! Nar is not going to be happy with you, guy who be short. [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] One of her primary standards for judging a story is, "how does the writer treat his minor characters?" Are they there just to prop up a bit of plot, or does the writer show that he cares enough to give them at least a character trait, even if he doesn't use it? Something worth thinking about....

[Mattius]

I clicked on the link in your sig. How long should it take to be approved poet?

[mark12_30]

Matt, you coming? woohooo! [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Are any of you writing serious fantasy? If so, how have you dealt with the temptation to be imitative of Tolkien? How long have you been working on your story, and why? What pitfalls have you faced and how have you overcome them - or not?

I've been writing stuff, but it's really bad, and I'm not fishing for comliments there [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] - it really is. I've tried to write stories that are not fan-fictional, but have failed, though this is my first go at Tolkien. First 3, actually, as I am spontaneously *trying* to write three stories. I've only been working on my stories for about 3 months, and I don't know why that long [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Well, on all of my past fanfics, I've ended up losing interest, (so far I've tried to do them for the His Dark Materials trilogy, Alice in Wonderland, and something else that I can't quite remember), but I've been pulling along so far, so I might be able to write- and finish- at least a short story. Wishful thinking, perhaps, but I'm trying.

~Menelien

Edit: I used to have another story, and it was coming along quickly, but then it started turning a tad Mary-Sue, so I dropped it.

[ May 04, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

[the guy who be short]

Nar is not going to be happy with you, guy who be short. One of her primary standards for judging a story is, "how does the writer treat his minor characters?" Are they there just to prop up a bit of plot, or does the writer show that he cares enough to give them at least a character trait, even if he doesn't use it? Something worth thinking about....

i can defend myself... theyre not really minor characters. in fact, theyre not characters at all. they just die... theyre just a statistic. well, i might give a lord here or a duke there a name, but thats it!

You can never be too sure where your' ideas come from

you will laugh so hard when you read this, but hey. may as well humiliate myself. here goes: there was nothing on TV while i was eating breakfast, and i had to watch something, so i watched - pokemon!
yes, i know, but hey, there was nothing else on. and i used to be a fan back when it was actually new and unrepetitive. anyway, the point is, if i hadnt watched that stupid cartoon that cant get characters lips in sync with sound, i wouldnt have got this amazing idea (copied from there of course). so now i actually have a reason for two of my kingdoms to fall out.

Besides that, I want my story to stand out. So I am creating a story in which good will fail and evil prevail

have you noticed how in nearly all books, good wins? or the hero of the book? or even if the ending is sad (as in noughts and crosses) there is always a ray of light at the end (like the baby in noughts and crosses). ever since i was very little ive wanted to write a story where evil wins. now i am!

I need to make the consequences of evil winning this whole whatever and make it believable today

in mine, evil doesnt downright win. this would be a problem, because if they had wed all have been enslaved and we're not. so i have evil defeated, yet poisoning human minds to evil. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

Well how about a ten page *graphic* love scene( graphic as in porn graphic

i think one of my friends is reading this. is it a series? in my opinion, and i dont mean to insult or annoy anybody, those books should really have a "warning" sign on the cover.

are you sure you want to go the route of evil winning? That goes against the very nature of fantasy

this wasnt aimed at me, but il answer it anyway! [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img]
yes, if you want a short answer. oh, you want a longer one? here goes: my poem is a story of the struggle between good and evil, how there are betrayals on both sides, great kingdoms fall, friendships are made and destroyed between kingdoms and species. yet in the end, against the odds, and mainly because of a betrayal, the good side prevails. yet evil cannot simply be deleted or destroyed, nor can its memory be wiped forever. this is something jrrt taaught me, with his rebellion of the noldor and downfall of numenor. so, evil is defeated, but its shadow remains; and though THe Dark Lord is gone, his effect lasts forever on men.
speaking of which: why are they always dark lords? why not an evil female as the central figure?

how is an orc supposed to reform? Orc to Elf archer: 'But I'm a GOOD orc!' Elf archer: '*twang!* You are now!'

in my poem i actually will have good "evil creatures". they realise if their lord wins, they stil wont be any better than slaves, so they convert onto the good side. there is alot of mistrust between the good Men and the "evil men anyway until a battle where the "evil" lord dies for the "good one".
basically, they can convert, but take alot of believing. ah... treachery. [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img] long has it been my greatest aid.

What TYPES of reasons to go wrong or stay wrong would you buy in a bad guy?

havent read if this has already been said, but jealousy. your jealous, you have lots of power, go on an evil spree! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

but could it possibly be that they just liked causing trouble, pain, humiliation and all that?

they were elves once. it isnt their fault they were forced into evil. remember, nothing is evil in the beginning. Even Sauron was not so. Or Morgoth, at the utmost beginning, or Naivag in my poem. email me for it at jay_pancholi@hotmail.com, subject: your poem

page 18.... soon

[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: the guy who be short ]

[ May 05, 2003: Message edited by: the guy who be short ]

[ElentariGreenleaf]

Hmm... I think I have a thing with killing of characters..... I killed off Atulan, then in the next chapter Truse, the third main character! Oh my...... And now I've got to think up a way to bring her back.... Oooo... Angel also just found out she's not human.... hehehe....

[the guy who be short]

describing the evil things he has done, rather than just mention he is an Evil Dark Lord of Doom

my poem starts off right from the beginning, with the creation story, how the DArk Lord of Doom became The Dark Lord of Doom, and all the first evil things he did.
happy? [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

on the black and white theory - i think fantasy is about inventing whatever you want. you could have an evil dark lord, or an evil mule. a knight in shining armour, or a friendly dog.
also, you could have a monarchy or whatever you want. i have never really thought about this before, but all my kingdoms are monarchies! strange.

Tolkien chose to take up a more epic style. I chose to do something with a more historical feel, something that could have happened, but never did

LotR might have happened. perhaps there were once elves on earth, but they left, and perhaps all the west has sunk. he wrote is as a history of earth.

Fantasy has many definitions

according to my dictionary fantasy is: 1)an imaginary scene, story, etc. 2) an idea not based on reality. so fantasy is anything that involves non existant things, eg. elves, or imaginary ideas.
i think fantasy - true fantasy - doesnt even need the battle between good and evil. it could just be a sentence, like this: Gogum is a giant moving postbox, with horns and antennae; he eats Gooks.
see? complete fantasy, yet no hint of good v. evil.

i shall return for page 19... noone can stop me! mwahahahaha! [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[littlemanpoet]

Hey guy who be short, ever hear of Samuel Taylor Coleridge? He lived about 200 years ago and came up with the idea of "suspension of disbelief". He also distinguished between "fantasy" and "fancy". Your little "gook" thing, according to him, was 'fancy'. Fantasy, as Tolkien's subcreation, is more than that. Subcreation is making after the image in which we're made. That's more than Gooks, dontja think? [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

[the guy who be short]

Subcreation is making after the image in which we're made

i am only here for a few seconds, but if i say this: "gooks resemble humans", does this turn into fantasy?

[Ainaserkewen]

I tell you, I was never much of a fantasy person before I saw LOTR. After I had seen it, I got inspired to write my own story. When that failed, I read the books. Inspired once again, I emerged in a wonderful tail of protectors of a foreign land who had to be reencarnated when they died, into humans who couldn't remember they were special. In human form they were safe from harming the earth. My protectors where called Dolans, wise and old as the stars. They originaly looked quite different then they did in present times, the new reencanated ones liked human forms best so they kept them. Unfortunately that meant that they would lose their memory and only the strong could remember their former life. Like all good fantasy, one Dolan went bad and reincarnated into a beast, as all his followers, to kill the leaders of the Dolans, who had killed him when he was gaining too much power over the people. Anyway, the whole story is of how the leaders come back after they were killed and can't remember who they all are, they must defend against the beasts and wait for the riencarnation of the evil one.
Tolkien inspired my story, but it is not written or based on his stories. Although I write alot of fanfiction. Tamed fear, as my story is called, will not be finished for a long time though. It's already into it's fourth book.

[littlemanpoet]

Does it turn from fancy into fantasy? No, not just because Gooks resemble humans. Interesting notion, though. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] Another distinguishing characteristic separating fantasy from fancy is that fantasy is a story with plot, characters, setting, conflict, beginning, trials, climax, conclusion. A Fancy is perhaps the notion that sets the writer to THINKING about the fantasy story to be written.

Actually, a giant moving carnivorous postbox makes me think of science fiction or horror instead of fantasy.
******************
The Dolen? I've thought of something along those lines, but never really did anything with it, not because I thought it was stupid or something! I really like the idea you're setting up. You're on your 4th book?! Yeesh!

[the guy who be short]

a giant moving carnivorous postbox makes me think of science fiction or horror

i never said they were carnivorous. gooks may be vegetables, for al we know!

Fantasy is escapism of cource. But why do we desire to escape this world?

boredom for me. by writing i can seek adventure. ever since i was very little, i wanted to have a proper adventure, like the people you read about in fantasy novels. but the only way (for me at least) to live this dream is to write.

to make a fortress out of mountain range one needs a shovel and a bit of time

a shovel? A SHOVEL? you'll have a fortress in... ooh... about a year.

Yes, high stakes, that's the key... there is hope, and there is loss, and not always of life, think of the Scouring of the Shire.

my captured "good side" are forced to cross breed with bats and wolves, and to work as slaves. terrible...

pages 19 down, nothng can stop me... mwahahahaha [img]smilies/evil.gif[/img]

[ May 08, 2003: Message edited by: the guy who be short ]

[the guy who be short]

Trilogies are better, anyway, or in my opinion anyway

for some reason all my favourite books are in trilogies (lotr, his dark materials, the wind on fire) or sets of 7 (narnia, harry potter)

I am happy to see that someone else other myself and my friend willing to take a different view.

hello? bald dwarves?

ok, ive just got to the point where i joined this thread. it seems it closed itself on october 2002, then, for some random reason of his own, LMP added a post in april 2003 hich stated the following:

up

please kindly explain

[Airerûthiel]

LMP, I don’t know when it’s done is the short answer. I’m always changing words and sentence structures to make it flow better. The only problem with the ‘scene-link’ cure is that usually the links I make up are really bad, so I probably spend more time working on improving those than on the writing I should be doing.

Fictionpress is pretty good. Basically the idea is you post up your chapters and other people read and review them. However reviews are few and far between, and good ones even more so. Most people are lucky to get one review per chapter. I’ve only ever had one actual good critique out of the reviews that weren’t from people I knew personally – most of the reviews are like ‘Oh this is really good, please write more soon!’ There is a sort of camaraderie, but generally it’s one of those ‘I read your work, now you read mine’ type things more than anything else.

By the way, what did you mean by ‘think about telling the reader no more than she needs to know’? I’m curious. PM me or leave me a message at FWW and we’ll talk some more about this.

[Faenaduial]

Great topic. It is interesting to read the posts and see what others are writing. I'm working on a novel inspired by Tolkien, however, taking place afer the conclusion of LoTR. The plot came to me in several dreams.

The hardest thing has been trying to make some of Tolkien's main characters stay out of the story as I want the story itself to be original and not just a FanFic. (I love FanFic's but would like this to be something more). The main characters and story are original.

Writing this story is taking twice as long as I would like as I have also been drawing some pictures to include in the book. [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img]

[littlemanpoet]

"Up" is a short hand technique some of the Downsers use to bring a great topic that has languished, back to the top of the list. Ya see, we know that the membership has changed drastically in a year's time. Sure enough, about a half dozen writers new to me have checked this out.

[Airerûthiel]

Perhaps this is a daft question, but if I was writing a piece of fiction about characters I'd made up but it was set in Middle-earth, is it fan fiction or original work? I'm just curious to know. Any help is much appreciated.

[mark12_30]

GaladrieloftheOlden: you wrote that you had started a story but it turned out to be a mary-sue so you dropped it. Sometimes, the thing to do is to FINISH it, and get it out of your system! In other words, make your mistakes and learn from them. I wrote a Mary-Sue (and then destroyed it) twenty-plus years ago. I don't regret it. I think it was a good start to writing.

[Faenaduial]

Perhaps this is a daft question, but if I was writing a piece of fiction about characters I'd made up but it was set in Middle-earth, is it fan fiction or original work?

It seems to me that it can be an original work. For example "Scarlett" was a sequel to "Gone with the Wind" written by different writers using some of the same characters and settings.

What makes books of that nature original is a totally new and different story line with original ideas.

That is exactly what I have been working on. I'm up to nine "finished" chapters and have an outline and notes for the whole story.

I find the biggest challenge is reworking the chapters I consider done after I have written new material to include or change things to make the story flow smoother.

[Lila Bramble]

Ever notice how just about every fantasy includes a hero on some form of mystic quest? I know its not getting old, but is there any other way to make a half decent fantasy without this? All I can picture is a pretty bland and boring story..

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

There was a sequel to Gone With the Wind? Dude... [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img] I'll read it when I'm done with the first one. Anyhow, back to the topic:

Besides that, I want my story to stand out. So I am creating a story in which good will fail and evil prevail

I think I'll do that too, now that you say it... but I don't think it's going to be an ME story. I'll wait till I have a weird dream, and I have those every 2 or 3 nights, and use somethin from there, I guess. Or maybe I should try watching tv. I never do normally, but for a story plot... hmmm...

~Menelien

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Could someone tell me where they got their ideas for stories (other than pokemon [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img])? Because I can't think of a good one, and I couldn't use a dream as I just pulled an all-nighter so, accordingly, did not have any dreams. [img]smilies/tongue.gif[/img] And, also wondering- do any of you use RPGs for inspiration for stories?

~Menelien

[the guy who be short]

for inspiration READ... then twist the ideas into something different but still simliar to put in your work. eg, using the silmarillion as a base, copying creation by singing, but having a weakling god. (you better not copy that cos if you do... [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img] )

[littlemanpoet]

I use all kinds of source material as the basis for my story. The most prominent are the milieu to be found in Lewis, Tolkien, and Williams - but in my own way because I had ideas that they never did, having to do with Genesis 6, planetary influences, and ancient history. In other words, use whatever is in your background/mind to use. Never fear, it'll find its way into your story if it's a part of you already.

[Nimiriel]

[img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] Hmm.. Inspiration. Well, I get mine from almost anything. One of my novels is based on three characters I made with my friends for a tv series, and some scenes from "The Fast and the Furious"... another is based on this weird idea I had to make some characters life a hard time. One was inspired by something I suddenly "saw" while watching the texts to "Robin Hood". The list is endless. Something a person say to me, or a situation I watch on my way to school, everything can inspire me.

But it's my muse who helps me sort all the impressions out, and make them into something I can use for a story.

[the guy who be short]

dreams are no source of inspiration to me. let me tell you about my last one.

i go back in time using a time travelling TRACTOR, find a dinosaur and put it in one of those black bin bags. i put a FULLY GROWN ADULT T-REX in a BINBAG! then i come back to the future. that is no help at all.

[Mattius]

What are you talking about, that sounds like a Nobel Prize winner right there [img]smilies/wink.gif[/img]

I seem to find inspiration from a varity of sources. Books are an obvious one and our own history is another. I am writing of a future/alternative medevil England during a Civil War between Revolutionaries and the King's Guards. The idea came to me after studying Russian history.

Other sources where I gain inspiration come from movies and music. I lie in bed with some emotional music on and picure what should happen to that music and it flows from there.

Matt

[ May 11, 2003: Message edited by: Mattius ]

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

Wow, different sources there. I think I'll try all.

for inspiration READ...

Well, I spend every moment of my life (except the time I spend on the Downs, which is considerable,) reading. I often find an idea for a story in a book, but when I write up the idea, it always turns out to be utter rubbish. I'd never thought of using history. That would probably make for an interesting story. Today I saw a ballet version of Romeo and Juliet, and I got an idea, but I forgot it by the time I got home, because I had been talking to my old math teacher's daughte on the train, and everything that had been in my head evaportated [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]

dreams are no source of inspiration to me. let me tell you about my last one.
i go back in time using a time travelling TRACTOR, find a dinosaur and put it in one of those black bin bags. i put a FULLY GROWN ADULT T-REX in a BINBAG! then i come back to the future. that is no help at all.

Lol, almost all of my dreams are like that. But, a. I dream a lot, so sometimes I might have one almost normal dream in, say, 2 weeks, b. sometimes I get an idea from a dream and use it in some way, just chainging it. (Something sort of scared me- in the last month and a half, I've had my first 2 nightmares in years :eek [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img], and c. you could use that for some really wacked out little kids’ story [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]

~Menelien

[Mattius]

Click on the link in my sig! I have 2 reviews and they are both pretty good!

[Airerûthiel]

I don't know if anyone's asked this before, but do any of you guys out there have any recurring themes, plot threads, or character types in your books? I have five ideas planned as well as the book I'm writing, and of these five, three of them have a pair of twins as the main characters (and two of the sets of twins are non-identical, male and female).

Also, am I the only person who thinks that it's a real struggle to try and answer the questions in this thread, as in collectively (so to speak)? I've been debating compiling them all and putting them in a new thread, but I'm not sure how much time restricts me because of my book, schoolwork etc. Any opinions?

[littlemanpoet]

Please don't feel compelled to answer all the questions. You might want to check out the link in my sig. It just so happens that my protagonists are step-brothers, having no parentage in common except by adoption. The father's first wife died and married again, and thus the step-brothers. They think they are as unlike each other as two could get, but they have a lot more in common than they know. I have ideas for other stories, but I guess I'd have to say they're quite different from each other.