Tol-in-Gaurhoth (Isle of Werewolves)

[Holbytlass]

Mmm, pizza, in a Medieval-type village, okay I'm the gourmet chef. I think someone was that before but, hey, everybody needs to eat!!

Edit: It would be quite interesting to see a game with just established 'loud' group. Now that would be something, with the no double (or more) lynchings rule.
Firefoot, Feanor, Suacepan Man, Fordim, Phantom, TGWBS, LMP, Barrow-wight, I'm sorry if I'm forgetting anyone.
All the plans to save the village with debate, all the lists and theories with debate, it would probably be the longest game thread.

The opposite though would be quite boring, only us 'quiet' ones. LOL-I don't think anyone would get lynched.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I had thought of being a King too Morm, but I reckon that such a small village is bound to come under the lands of a King sitting in a palace somewhere. He's probably never heard of our little village. I doubt he has a lute maestro like me in his court.

*shakes fist*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

To answer questions: No, I didn't forget Lhuna. I just forgot to write her down on my "master list". I've even got several deaths picked out for her, should she be killed. Given her Lhunatic status, one should work even better than the others.

Eomer: We are rushing because if we don't get started soon, we run the risk of running past the time expected, and the mod will be unavoidably out of town for several days. Should we start tomorrow, as expected, everything will be obeykaybe, but if we wait, there's a high chance the game would have to be stalled, ended prematurely, or handed over to someone else while I go take college placement tests, meet new classmates, register for classes, and go into debt for the next ten years.

Okay... Recruitment is over. Our players for this game are:

Eomer
Firefoot
Gil-Galad
Holbytlass
Kath
littlemanpoet
mormegil
Lhuna
Nilpaurion Felagund
Orominuialwen
Saurreg
the guy who be short

Roles will be chosen in about thirty seconds, and they will be sent out rather soon.

Also to be posted soon is the new game thread with all of the rules and roles. Don't post on it. Any questions, PM me and I'll either answer you in private, or I'll answer your question publicly on this thread.

The game will begin 9:30 EDT tomorrow morning.

Everybody playing should remain invisible until the end of the game.

Good luck, and may the force be with you.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Roles have all been assigned. Everyone playing should be invisible. Day begins tomorrow. The Seer needs to send me a name before then.

[Oddwen]

I've missed this game. Ah well. I couldn't form a coherent logical argument to save my life. Which happens to be the entire point of the game, so...ahem.

Perhaps I shall volunteer to mod a game, nonetheless.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Aw... poor Oddy. I'm sorry. If you do mod, make sure that you have quite a lot of free time.

[littlemanpoet]

I need this mythomaniac thing explained to me a little more; Feanor's rules post left me confused. I didn't really get it in MMV either. Does the mythomaniac pick the role of some other villager? And then there can be two Hunters, for example? I get how it works if the MM picks a werewolf, and I guess that means there can be three shirriffs? Or does one shirriff stop being a shirriff and morph into an ungifted villager so that the MM can be the shirriff, for example?

[mormegil]

It simply works that on the second night the Mythomaniac chooses somebody they want to "become" and they will become that person's role. We could have 2 seers, 4 wolves, 3 shirrifs etc... The mytho will be introduced to the shirrifs and wolves if they choose them. Of course, they could simply become another villager. Does that help some?

[littlemanpoet]

Yes. Thanks!

By the way, see if WW VI doesn't turn out strange with more gifted than ungifted villagers. Okay, I'll shut up now, but keep your eyes on this....

[Lhunardawen]

Originally Posted by Fea

No, I didn't forget Lhuna. I just forgot to write her down on my "master list". I've even got several deaths picked out for her, should she be killed. Given her Lhunatic status, one should work even better than the others.

Goody. Thank'ee. You seem to be really excited to see me die, huh?

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I've been so busy that I've now missed out on joining two werewolf games. Will there be a Werewolf VII? If so, I'd love to join in! I know it may be early to tell, but I just would like to know what the possibility is for another game.

[mormegil]

There seems to be sufficient interest, in both moderating and playing, to say that yes there will be another game.

[Gil-Galad]

{deleted}

[Lalaith]

Oh poor Gil-Galad...but look up, smile, you've survived.

[Kuruharan]

I'm really getting ticked off now, it looks like that i'm going to be lynched because my dad passworded me off for no reason, i personally think that isn't fair, i barely have anytime now to go on the computer and i use most of it for the WW game... and now i'm going to be dead again for the stupid stuff... i might as well just kill myself off, never having fun on the WW games anyways, always being killed...

This is exactly the sort of behavior in this thread that should not be allowed under any circumstances. It can seriously unbalance the game in progress.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I agree Kuru. There's no need for players to be posting on this thread, and most others should just wait until the current game is finished.

[Lhunardawen]

Eomer, aren't you supposed to be...um...dead?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ahem.

Players currently enrolled in WW6 should know better and refrain from posting here.

Eomer is dead. He no longer counts as a current player, though he is still watching you guys closely.

Gil-Galad, I would appreciate it if you would check your PMs.

And yes, I started the new day a little bit early, but it was either 10 minutes early or several hours late. Hope you enjoy the latest mauling.

[Holbytlass]

I am unexpectedly going out of town for the day tomorrow Saturday the 16th 9:00a.m.-10:00-ishP.m. (EDT). Will resume the second half of the "day".

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Got it.

[Oddwen]

If nobody has dibs, I'd like to mod WWVII.
More when VI has finished.

[Firefoot]

Sorry, Oddwen... I've already called it.

[Oddwen]

Okay, then.
I'll try for IIX, then.

[littlemanpoet]

Now that the Finale of Werewolf VI is academic, I'm going to post up a few reflections on strategy. Please convince me I'm wrong about any of this, if you can.

The Mythomaniac is such a powerful wildcard that it creates the equivalent to a permanent power play in hockey. The Cursed Villager served that function for the werewolves already in Game III & IV, but was in Game IV balanced by the existence of a wealth of gifted innocents, not to mention the fact that the CV got lynched quickly.

That the MM became Seer#2 in game VI, gave the innocents such a powerful advantage that the werewolves didn't have a chance unless the innocents really bungled. The fact that there were so few ungifted innocents was no liability, but instead belied an embarrassment of riches in terms of gifted innocents.

After the Seer, the most powerful role, if used wisely, is not Ranger nor Hunter, but the two Shirriffs, revealed (on day 2, not day 1, I think) as known innocents. It effectively takes the initiative away from the werewolves until the werwolves can get rid of the shirriffs, which takes no less than 2 Nights.

All of this rehash to reiterate something I said before, which has now been proven out: if gifted innocents outnumber ungifted innocents, the werewolves are at a disadvantage. Further, the more experienced players we have, the harder it's going to be for the werewolves to win.

In Game V, if The Guy had been a known innocent, Feanor's set of double bluffs would not have been nearly as effective. In the same game, if the MM had become an additional Ranger or Hunter, or a second Seer, it would have tipped the balance against the werewolves so much that I think they'd have had a real hard time pulling off a win instead of the romp they experienced.

So I have two suggestions for future mods:

(1) If gifted innocents outnumber ungifted innocents, you will keep a better balance in the game by having a Cursed Villager instead of a Mythomaniac.

(2) The Mythomaniac needs to be rendered less of a doom-thrower against whichever side it does NOT wind up on. Therefore, try instead of having a one-time MM choice, have the Moderator do a random nightly choice such that the role of the MM changes every two Nights; this means that the MM could be a Seer for two Days and two Nights, then a werewolf for two Days and two Nights.

Like I said, please convince me I'm wrong about this stuff if you think I am.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

No point in arguing, LMP, because you're absolutely right. The second Footie picked Oromin, I knew the village had it in the bag. Mith can vouch that I claimed I'd cry if they lost.

As much as I like the Mytho as a wildcard, I think [s]he gives too much sway to whichever side [s]he picks. In WWV, it was a fantastically close game, and cleverly played (not to brag, but it was). But I doubt it would turn out like that again.

And gifted villagers outweighing normal is too much. Quite honestly, I think going back to a game with just wolves and a seer would be a blast, now that we're getting the hang of it.

[mormegil]

One thing I thought about this game coincides with your thoughts LMP but differs slightly. The villagers were simply too powerful. Especially with Firefoot picking to be a seer...good job by the way...and then our Shirriffs played wonderfully. I would recommend in that small of a game to only have one or the other a mytho or sherriffs. Both seemed overkill. If however we had 16 to 19 players then I could see having all the roles. Remeber though in the previous game Kath (mytho) choose to be a werewolf much to the disadvantage of the villagers.

I don't agree that having the mytho change roles every other night is such a good idea. I think it would be confusing for all involved. Especially the poor moderator who is trying to keep up as it is.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Cheers morm. The job gives you a lot more admiration for all of our mods and admins for keeping up with everything.

It would definately be a pain trying to keep up with changing mytho roles, but here's what makes it worse: what if, for two nights, the Mytho was a wolf, and then the Mytho was changed to a villager? [S]he would be able to give away the accomplices in one fell swoop, again giving the village the undefeatable power play.

I agree that only in big games (minimum 15 players) should every role be used, if then. With small, it's just too easy to figure out, and the game's more fun when you're asking yourself constantly if you screwed up horribly.

[Oddwen]

True, the more "active" gifteds do make for a swift game. Having the Sherriffs and something else is probably more beneficial to a game with a whooole lot more players.
If one insists on lots of gifteds, a "Cobbler" might be a good addition to the WW's side, but then it's probably going too far.

"Fea is a werewolf!"
"No, I'm the hunter."
"I thought you were the guardian?"
"No, I, Kath am the guardian"
"Sauce and the phantom are the sherriffs!"
"I'm a werewolf! I'm a werewolf!"
"Shut up Nilp, we know you're the cobbler."
"Isn't ANYONE a regular villager??"


Sounds like godmodding in an RPG...

[Holbytlass]

I'm glad this subject of gifted/ungifted ratio has been brought up, I didn't want to sound like sour-grapes. I feel the pendulum has swung too far the other way than at the first couple of games where there were so many players, it was hard to pinpoint any wolf down to now where unless all of the wolves had great skill (I speak for myself when I confess I do not) they don't stand a fair chance against an almost total gifted village.

I agree that a system of which gifted roles are used depends upon the number of players.

I still thoroughly enjoyed playing as always! And I'll have to check, but am I the first person to be a wolf twice?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It is, of course, up to Firefoot to decide how many players she wants in her game. I'm in agreement with all who have just there posted. If there are only 12 players in the next game then I suggest limiting gifted villagers to one Seer and possibly one Guardian. If there are 19 players then by all means throw in all the other roles.

But it's up to the all-powerful mod.

By the way, um.....playing in a game of Werewolf? Hmmm.....sounds like a novelty.... I'm in, if allowed.

Edit to add: Holby, you are my antithesis: you always have some groovy role as opposed to the resident Ordinary Villager Extraordinaire.

[mormegil]

If Eomer is in I feel that I can request joining as well. You may have been in more than I have so far, which is hard to believe.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I've had a part in numerous games but I've only lasted an accumulated 3 days.

[Firefoot]

I've been thinking along some of the same lines for the next game. For WW VII, I want the number of ordinary innocents to at least equal the number of gifted innocents - if we keep all the rules, this means 15+ players.

I would recommend in that small of a game to only have one or the other a mytho or sherriffs. Both seemed overkill. If however we had 16 to 19 players then I could see having all the roles.

Agreed. If this game has fewer than 15 people, both the Mytho and the Shirriffs will not be used. I would like to see the game have 15-20 players, though... in some ways it's more interesting. But if not that many people are interested, so be it.

I'm not sure I like the Mythomaniac, at least not in such a small game. Between the Mytho and the Shirriffs, the game turned completely analytical and based off of knowns and facts, rather than suspicions and puzzle pieces (if you know what I mean?). I'm thinking about bringing the Cursed Villager back instead of the Mytho. Thoughts on this?

Also, the Shirriffs. I like the roles, but as we have now discovered it is a real advantage when the rest of the villagers know who they are. What if we kept the role but banned the Shirriffs from revealing their roles?

The cobbler sounds interesting - I'd be interested in giving it a shot.

Now, I don't know that I'd make all the changes I suggested here... it may tip the balance towards the wolves, but I'd like to know which ones you like/dislike.

Oh yeah:

Let's see... I predict a villager win. Thanks to whoever started it, if WW IV was "A New Hope," and WW V certainly fits the bill for "The Werewolves Strike Back"...

I was right.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Can I express my willingness to participate the WW VII? I totally missed last two games (shouldn't ever have left on vacation...) and I'd like to play this time.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

*raises hand*

If I play, do you think I'll make it past DAY 1 ever again? Let's hope so, 'cuz I'm in, if our beloved new Moddess Goddess will let me.

~Fea the retired Moddess Goddess

[Mithalwen]

I think the Mythomaniac is an interesting addition - but remember that it is perhaps lucky that both times they have picked a special char - well maybe less this time since there were shirriffs.... Maybe it would be fairer if the Myth picked a person before gameplay started. IE before they could guess who was who.... but certainly I think you need at least 50% ordinary villagers .....

[the guy who be short]

I'd like to play in the next game, but I've played in the last two consecutive games, so if there isn't enough space, feel free to drop me.

It would be interesting to see whether Fea lasts longer than Eomer or not.

[Firefoot]

Official sign-up:

Dancing Spawn
Eomer
Feanor
Mormegil
TGWBS

I will be out of town this week from Thursday morning to Saturday afternoon. The game will probably be starting Sunday morning with NIGHT 1; I will be pm'ing roles out on Saturday evening/night. Sound alright?

Night and Day phases will begin/end at 7:30 Central time (8:30 Eastern) - this is an hour before what WW VI was.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Will day and night segments remain 24 hours long each?

[littlemanpoet]

Originally Posted by Feanor

what if, for two nights, the Mytho was a wolf, and then the Mytho was changed to a villager? [S]he would be able to give away the accomplices in one fell swoop, again giving the village the undefeatable power play.

I thought of that. Once the mytho became a werewolf, it would have to stay that way. Which could be devastating to the village if the mytho had just gotten done being a co-seer. But I really think that, barring the wildcard mytho, after the Seer the shirriffs together are the most powerful "gifteds" in the village; it may not seem like it, but this game proved it to me.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

I'm thinking about bringing the Cursed Villager back instead of the Mytho. Thoughts on this?

I'm in favor of this, FF.

Originally Posted by Firefoot

Also, the Shirriffs. I like the roles, but as we have now discovered it is a real advantage when the rest of the villagers know who they are. What if we kept the role but banned the Shirriffs from revealing their roles?

I think this should depend on how many players. If there are less than 15, try banning their revealing themselves, say, until the Seer is gone, or until the number of innocents has been reduced to, say, 7. If the game has 15 or more players, the Shirriffs' influence wouldn't be as great as in WW VI.

What's the function of the cobbler?

Originally Posted by LMP

By the way, see if WW VI doesn't turn out strange with more gifted than ungifted villagers. Okay, I'll shut up now, but keep your eyes on this....

I was right too, FF.

Oh, and sign me up for WW VII.