Inconsistencies-I'm not grouchy, these are just so obvious after you see it 10 times

[balrogman]

Heres a couple for you all:<BR>1) When Legolas and Aragorn have the "dispute" look closely and you'll see that Legolas' eyes are brown, while in other parts they are blue!<BR>2)When the rain starts in the battle of Helms Deep, look at the elves hairlines. You'll see a line of running makeup!<BR>3)When Frodo is sliding down the hill to go save Sam, he stops behind large rocks sticking out of the hill. When the Haradrim soldier looks at the hill, however, it is purely pebbles and has no outcroppings near where the rocks are falling!

[Tar-Palantir]

You have seen the movie too many times, me thinks! <P>1) Never question Legolas! The Orli Gestapo might find you <BR>2) I saw something odd there as well, but it wasn't makeup. Their hairlines were just different. Lower? I couldn't put my finger on it.<BR>3) That had to be a perspective thing, because Sam and Frodo would both have been visible otherwise. I prefer to believe they were just out of frame, around the corner. Either way the guards at the Black Gate should have seen them, otherwise why even keep guards there.

[LePetitChoux]

[LIST]<LI>Aragorn's mum's grave is so unkempt for the resting place of...hmm...let me see....<I>the mother of the rightful king of half the map</I>...<BR><LI>"ORCS!"~well DUH! (it isn't an inconsistency, I just saw it yesterday and burst out laughing...got me a weird look)<BR><LI>When they enter Moria, right after "Orcs!", why does Legolas draw his sword/dagger? Surely his bow would have been better...<BR><LI>Doesn't that troll look like that beast in StarWars: The Return of the Jedi, whom Luke kills?<BR><LI> When the sceptre of the Cave Troll pierces Frodo, surely he'd have been slightly HURT? I mean, when Mithril is driven into you, and then swivelled around, you don't just get up. (I realise this was in the book too, but ah well...)<BR><LI>Quote of Aragorn: "Oh no....", then two minutes later, "You should be dead!" I'd-never-take-the-ring-my-bottom!<BR><LI> Orcs are such a bad army! Morgoth made a HUGE genetic mistake when making them-they are clearly short-sighted, as they never hit ANYTHING, unless they are 2m away, and even then it takes 3 arrows!<BR><LI>"It is a Balrog"...they wait for about 3 minutes and then "RUN!" Silly, really. Giving that Balrog a head start...<BR><LI>"The Bridge is near!" Suuuuure it is. Only 40km away...<BR><LI> How fit are the members of the Fellowship? (I don't mean handsome, but fit in its literal sense)-they can run SO FAR non stop! Me? After the first flight of steps, I'd collapse!<BR><LI>Whose eyes flash up at us after Galadriel says "EYE!"?<BR><LI>Legolas STOLE THAT JUG!<P>Thats all, folks!

[Gilthalion]

It seems that not many of the errors I've seen listed are ACTUAL errors, though some obviously are.<P>I guess it's just about impossible for any movie to have perfect continuity! But you folk surprise me! Two errors that I've heard about before are not even mentioned in this list, though perhaps they are so familiar that no one else thought them worth mentioning. But for the sake of a pedantic sense of exhaustive completeness (the foul spirit in which we labor), here are two more:<P>1) When Sam and Frodo are in the cornfield, leaving the Shire, you can see the dust plume of an automobile (or an extremely fast pony-drawn hobbit racing buggy!) in the upper right corner of your screen.<P>2) When Saruman is bringing a storm down upon the heads of our heroes laboring up the Caradhras pass, you can see a bandage on a finger of his extended left hand. Christopher Lee had smashed it in a hotel room door. In another scene, where he seems to be holding himself after Sauron tells him to "Build me an army worthy of Mordor!", Lee is hiding his broken hand in the robes of the Saruman costume.<P>It is difficult even on paper to avoid continuity errors. How much more difficult in a three part movie that will in extended version likely be on the order of 12 hours long!<P>But there are occasional moments when the reality of shooting adds more than it detracts. <P>1) When Gandalf bumps his head in Bag End, that was a real gaff by Ian McKellen, who continued on with the take in character and so they left it in. Priceless.<P>2) Note when Aragorn parries the orc-hurled blade (the knife given him by Celeborn in the Extended DVD, I believe) when defending fallen Boromir. That was actually Viggo Mortensen batting that thing down out of mid-air and not CGI enhanced prowess!<P>I'm sure there are other such shots, and to me, they balance out the inevitable imperfections.

[HCIsland]

I've tried to spot the two errors you talked about here as they are both mentioned on the director's commentary. Although I see the smoke, I can't see how it can be assumed to be a car. It doesn't seem to be moving. To me it looks like someone just burning leaves or something.<P>The bandage is there on Christopher Lee's hand, but even with freeze frame, it is extremely difficult to see.<P>It was funny, just this morning on the news, they were talking about a website that records all these 'mistakes' and mentioned how many LoTR has and then mentioned the one about Bag End's door having the knob in the centre of the door on the outside, but it is to one side on the inside. This is typical of 90% of the mistakes mentioned in this thread as it certainly is not a mistake. This represents the practicality of making a door work. The door is latched at the edge of the door, so some sort of lever mechanism must extend from the knob in the centre to the latch on the edge. Putting the latch towards one side on the inside is the only way to make a door that would be practical to open. Imagine trying to pull open that big heavy door from a knob in the middle. It isn't practical. What they did was stayed true to the discription of Tolkien while at the same time making a door that actually works.<P>With a smidge of thought, at least three-quarters of the so called mistakes on this thread can be dealt with.<P>H.C.

[Bekah]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> When the sceptre of the Cave Troll pierces Frodo, surely he'd have been slightly HURT? I mean, when Mithril is driven into you, and then swivelled around, you don't just get up. (I realise this was in the book too, but ah well...)<P> <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Umm...the whole point of the mithril is that <I>it sheilds you from everything!!!!</I> And the mithril isn't actually the driving force. But...if it makes you happy, Frodo is obviously winded for a bit.<P>Does Sting look fake to any of you, in the shot when Frodo holds it to Sam's throat?<P>~ Elentari II, who wishes she had a TV, that still goes, so she could check these mistakes on the FOTR.

[Tar-Palantir]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Umm...the whole point of the mithril is that it sheilds you from everything!!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not accurate Bekah. It is not magical you know. It is simply Grade A armor that is nearly impervious to piercing and slicing, but had that Troll's mallet hit him in the chest Frodo would have been a Hobbit pancake. Ever seen someone get shot wearing a Kevlar vest? It can knock them on their a$$, just from the force. <P>And in the book some of the links of mail are actually driven into the skin.<P>cheers,<BR> <p>[ February 15, 2003: Message edited by: Tar-Palantir ]

[HCIsland]

... but if you look, he is not stabbed by a spear but by a trident and that the trident is not centered on Frodo. When one of the tines struck the mithril, it was deflected sideways, pinning Frodo between two of the tines. This is supported by the fact that the hole in Frodo's shirt is to one side. Also, if you look at the tines carefully, you will notice that the center one is actually shorter then the outside ones, meaning that the outside ones can hit the wall before the central one can fully impale Frodo.<P>Sorry guys, they thought about this to avoid the lets-slow-down-the-movie-and-heal-Frodo scene.<P>As I said, most of the stuff in this thread are not mistakes.<P>H.C.

[Calliope and Linus S. Underhill.]

lol I noticed that "What must I do" and starts packing thing from the start, it really bugs me. But what happens after that is even better if you've seen it a million times. While they're talking, Gandalf folds a shirt, hands it to Frodo, and Frodo <I>shakes it out so that it's not folded anymore</I> and stuffs it in his bag. LOL! Kind of absent-minded, eh? I saw the movie 8 times int he theater, and I think our family watches it twice a day now. AAAAAAH! Getting sick of hearing Elijah Wood say "Mohdoh" incorrectly.<P>I also noticed that in the TT when they clow up the wall, the rocks are falling verrrrrrry slooooowly, but it can't be in slow motion because the orcs below are moving at normal speed. If I were them I'd DODGE the rock that was falling at .5 mph, but that's just me.<P>Did you notice on the extended version of LOTR when Pippin and Merry threw rocks, it killed the Uruks? I know it says in the book that hobbits have dead aim, but come on! Saruman needs to stop breeding an army and start making better armour.<p>[ February 15, 2003: Message edited by: Calliope and Linus S. Underhill. ]

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> Did you notice on the extended version of LOTR when Pippin and Merry threw rocks, it killed the Uruks? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>What? Did you take a pulse.<P>You's to say they aren't getting right up again after the hit?<P>H.C.

[Naldoriathil]

In FOTR, Gandalf is talking to Saruman about what to do about Sauron (in Isengard I think). This is only a little thing, but in one frame, Gandalf has a ring on his left middle finger and on the next frame, he doesn't! Seems kinda twisted to me...

[HCIsland]

Gandalf seems to have these funky sleaves that have a loop that go around a finger. You sure it wasn't these?<P>Gandalf having a ring? Naw! <P>H.C.

[Bekah]

Okay, sorry Tar. <P>Er...H.C, was that a joke? Because although having a ring and then not would be faulty, Gandalf having a ring in itself isn't so bad. He had one of the Three Elven Rings, though I forget which one.<P>Cheers,<P>~ Elentari II

[Tar-Palantir]

I noticed that about the ring too, but it doesn't look like a ring, it's like HCIsland said with the sleeves. It's like when someone's hair or the ruffle in their dress is different even when they haven't moved - one of those unavoidable flaws of using multiple takes.<P>Bekah, you're right as far as the movie goes, they do make the vest seem 'invincible' I think.

[Bekah]

Oh goody! You mean I'm not entirely wrong? <P>Love you all,<P>~ Elentari II

[Erulasto]

Re: the complaint about Sting not glowing in Osgiliath in spite of the Orcs on the opposite shore.<P>I would propose the following experiment: get any phosphorescent item, i.e. a glow-in-the-dark sticker or a glostick or whatever.<P>In the middle of the day, go into a dark closet, verify that the object does indeed glow. Now, step out into the bright daylight outside and observe the object again. You will, to your great surprise, notice that you can't see any glow, because the ambient light is too bright.<P>Other occurrences of this phenomenon are:<P>-the way you don't see stars during the day<BR>-the way the light cone of a flashlight is not visible when projected on snow in the daytime<BR>-the way you can't make out this post if the sun is shining on your monitor<BR>-etc.<P>Whoever said Sting must become a lightsaber around Orcs? Not Tolkien, anyway.<P>(edit=typos)<p>[ February 15, 2003: Message edited by: Erulasto ]

[Bekah]

A light-saber? <P>Anyway, although I will acquiesce the other points about glowing, I will not agree upon the one about Tolkien saying that Sting did not glow. It's all in the Hobbit, though if you want me to elaborate I'll do so.<P>~ Elentari II

[Horse-Maiden of the Shire]

The Uruk that looks at Aragorn as he runs to Boromir makes me laugh my head off every time.<BR>Elijah says it more like "Mall-door". Horrible pronunciation. Gets me everytime.

[Bekah]

Mall-dor? Do you mean when he says 'Mordor', or what?<P>And now I feel dumb, but which Uruk are you referring to? <P>~ Elentari II<p>[ April 21, 2003: Message edited by: Bekah ]

[Erulasto]

By the lightsaber commment I was referring to the brightness of the glow, not the presence of one. Let me rephrase:<P>"Whoever said that Sting must light up like a christmas tree around Orcs? Not Tolkien.'<P>Also, someone commented on the two trolls opening the Black Gate, and someone else accused Tolkien of being inconsistent on the matter of their sensitivity to light.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR><B>LOTR: ROTK: Appendix F</B><P>"But at the end of the Third Age a troll-race not before seen appeared in souther Mirkwood and in the mountain borders of Mordor. Olog-hai they were called in the Black Speech. That Sauron bred them none doubted, though from what stock was not known. Some held that they were not Trolls but giant Orcs; but the Olog-hai were in fashion of body and mind quite unlike even the largest of Orc-kind, whom they far surpassed in size and power. Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race, strong, agile, fierce and cunning, but harder than stone. <I>Unlike the older race of the Twilight, they could endure the Sun, so long as the will of Sauron held sway over them</I>. They spoke little, and the only tongue that they knew was the Black Speech of Barad-dûr.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[balrogman]

Ok got some more:<BR>1) In the Special Edition FotR it has a little scene of Legolas shooting off orcs while Aragorn is wrestling an orc beside the tree. Why doesnt Legolas shoot the orc thats wrestling with Aragorn? Also, teh last orc the Legolas shoots falls before the arrow hits him.<BR>2)In the fight with the cave troll, wouldnt the beam of light turn him into stone?(Hes not an Olog-Hai,he <B>is</B> a cave troll)<P><BR>I also found a site with many errors:<BR><A HREF="http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=1778" TARGET=_blank>FotR</A><BR><A HREF="http://www.moviemistakes.com/film.php?filmid=2638" TARGET=_blank>TTT</A>

[Bekah]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> By the lightsaber commment I was referring to the brightness of the glow, not the presence of one. Let me rephrase:<BR>"Whoever said that Sting must light up like a christmas tree around Orcs? Not Tolkien.'<P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, gotcha. But Tolkien still said that Sting 'lights up like a Christmas tree/light-saber'. In the Hobbit. It's of the same kind as Glamdring, which lights up because of the elven craftsmanship in the making of it. It glows blue whenever enemies, especially orcs, are near. It's all in the Hobbit... <P>~ Elentari II<P>[Edited for typos]<p>[ February 17, 2003: Message edited by: Bekah ]

[Darkside]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> In the fight with the cave troll, wouldnt the beam of light turn him into stone?(Hes not an Olog-Hai,he is a cave troll) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LOL <BR>I was thinking the same thing when I saw FotR the first time. He certainly should have turned to stone.

[balrogman]

I think i found another one while watchin FotR this morning, on Weathertop, right after the Nazgul show up they take out their swords, but when Frodo pulls out the shiny ring, the nazgul who stabs him(I'm thinking its the witch-king) pulls out his sword again!

[HCIsland]

It's a different sword.<P>H.C.

[balrogman]

aaaaaaahhhhhhhh i get it now

[LePetitChoux]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR>1.Are the mini-towers at Barad-Dûr caricatures of Sauron in his armour?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><A HREF="http://www.quintessentialwebsites.com/lordoftherings/movieshots/dsr2_17.jpg" TARGET=_blank>This is what I meant</A>.

[HCIsland]

I know a lot of people are just having fun with the inconsistencies in these films, but I also know for some, these really anger them. I've been wondering why these just slide off me when other Tolkien fans are so insulted.<P>I think it's because I've been accepting these kind of movie compromises for decades in science fiction films and I guess I've gotten used to it. I'm a physics and astronomy major, and as such, I can't watch a science fiction film without spotting all the inaccuracies that fly by most others. Some films couldn't give a rat's behind for such things (Star Wars is the most popular example, but there certainly are worse offenders) but this doesn't bother me because science is not what these films are about. Other films (though certainly far fewer) go through great pains to get the science as good as they can, but even they can't be perfect. 2001, arguably the best sci-fi film every made, has it's inconsistencies. For example, that unfinished, rotating space station would have a speed wobble that would tear it apart. Does it bug me? No, because that scene is absolutely gorgeous and would be weeker if the station were finished or not rotating. In fact, 2001 is still one of my favourite all time films.<P>So what's my point? I love science and I love film and decades of following both have allowed me to rectify the two so I can continue to enjoy both. Sometimes, I don't think Tolkien experts have had the benefit of that experience.<P>H.C.<p>[ February 24, 2003: Message edited by: HCIsland ]

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I thought most peole were finding these just for fun. I am. Just some stuff I randomly want to answer to from all over this thread:<P>Legolas eye color: watch Legolas closely in EVERY scene and you may notice that in FotR, he mostly has brown eyes, sometimes blue, and in tTT, it's the other way around. He looks better with brown. <P>Mithril- well, almost everything I wanted to say about it has been said by somebody else, except one thing: dont youthink the mithril coat was the worst accesory in the film? (Did I use that word right?? ) I would ceratainly NOT imagine it looking like a dress! All sparkly and shimmery and pretty! <P>Yes Gandalf does have a Ring, it is one of the Three, it is Narya, the most powerful I believe, (I have to check up on that) and it was given to him by Cirdan when Gandalf came through the Havens, because Cirdan could foresee that he would have some use for it.<P>No, I don't think Sting looked too fake, but I wasn't looking too closely. Also, when I said it shoud have been lit up, I did NOT mean "like a christmas tree" or even a light saber, I just meant it should have been glowing slightly! In just the same way as if you turn on a very strong cold blue flashlight (Sting <I>should</I> certainly be brighter than a flashlight) in the middle of the day, you may see a little bit of cold- blue light. That was just to clarify that I did not mean I thought it would just make the whole place glow. <P>By the way, could someone tell me how to use spell check on Barrowdowns if it is possible (too lazy to copy it into word )? I checked this for spelling a few times, hope there's nothing left- I found a lot

[Voralphion]

I am not sure if this has been mentioned before, but in the first movie Arwen is using a saddle on her horse, when it is well known that elves ride bareback. I think that Legolas also uses a saddle in Rohan.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I don't know if Legolas was using a saddle in Rohan in the movie, but in the book it specifically stated that he took of the saddle. I was watching closesly, but I just don't remember.

[balrogman]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> it is Narya, the most powerful I believe, (I have to check up on that) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I believe Vilya(Elrond's ring) is the most powerful, but i dont want to jabber on about that in this thread, im sure there are others about this. <P>I got a new screwup!! Here it is:<BR>When Gandalf and Saruman are throwing each other around, watch Gandalf's very last spell, throwing Saruman through the double doors. Gandalf hits the floor doing so, but the next instant is shown standing with staff in hand

there has been one thing that just screams out to me during both movies. aragon should have narsil or the blade reforged but if you look at the scene in rivendell narsil has a big hole in the pummel of the sword. and aragon should have been carrying it after they set out from rivendell. but if you look he still has his ranger sword. in both movies he has his ranger sword. he never carries narsil. i think that was a big mistake that got overlooked.

[HCIsland]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:<HR> he never carries narsil. i think that was a big mistake that got overlooked. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>It's not an oversight. It's deliberate. Watch for The Sword Reforged in RoTK.<P>H.C.

[Airehiriel]

A thought occured to me today while I was watching part of LotR: FotR. I read someone somewhere say that during the scene in Moria, where they are in the room with Balin's tomb, just before the orcs run into the room, Boromir runs to the door to see what is going on. Over his should you can see Aragorn laying down a torch and comes running. In the very next scene we see Aragorn holding the torch, then laying it down. What my thought is, is that we are watching two things that are happening at the same time, but since we dont have a split screen, they have to show the scenes in succession. This would explain for me scenes in other movies that have looked like this! I'm not saying that all the mistakes can be explained away like this, but I think some of them can. <P>Does this make sense to anyone else? Or is it just me?

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

When the program to simulate Helm's Deep was run the first time the defender's of Helm's deep ran away

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

*pulls thread up to top*<BR>To stop going over and over the same things, I'd like to ask a new question: what movie mistakes/inconsistencies do you think there will possibly be in RotK?

[HCIsland]

Mistake and inconsistencies are different things.<P>In my mind mistakes, in the spirit of the opening post of this thread, is something the film makers did by accident, like Boromirs roving hand during his death scene with Aragorn.<P>I'm not sure what you mean by inconsistencies. Do you mean internal plot holes or do you mean inconsistencies with the book. Calling the later a mistake is subjective considering these types of inconsistencies are certainly deliberate changes made by the makers of these films.<P>Now if you want guesses as to differences between the film RoTK and the books, here are my guesses.<P>Saruman and Wormtongue will be killed towards the beginning of the film at Isengard.<P>Arwen, perhaps with a company of elves, will bring the banner of Gondor and the reforged Narsil to Aragorn. There will be no Dunedain nor will Elrond's sons be mentioned.<P>They will have to give Arwen something to do in this film before the wedding. I was hoping for a knock down cat fight in the mud with Eowyn, but I think I'll be disappointed. I've heard rumour of her being with Aragorn during the viewing through the Palantir. Other than that, I haven't a guess. This is problematic and it wouldn't surprise me if Jackson has filmed Arwen in a lot of ways (he's well known for shooting a lot of film) and still may not be eexactly sure what he is going to do. I'll be happy if the sword swinging is kept to a minimum.<P>No Scoring of the Shire, but I figure we all know that by now.<P>No Imrahil, or if he is there he will just be the well dressed soldier from the south.<P>Sam and Frodo marching with the orcs? I'm not sure about this one, but they've made the orcs universally big, certainly much bigger than a hobbit. I'm not sure PJ will be able to sell this scene to the audience.<P>Wedding and coronation will be together.<P>Sauron will appear physically at the Black Gates to kick some major butt.<P>That's all that's occuring to me for now.<P>Whether these are mistakes or not are debatable.<P>H.C.

[GaladrieloftheOlden]

I didn't start the topic, so I wouldn't know, but I thought that inconsistencies meant things that either were not consistent with the book, or didn't make sense, as in the bridge changing (I don't know if this actually happened.) Maybe we should ask whoever started this, I think it might have been LePetitChoux.<BR>Edit: I'm a shade now! <p>[ March 24, 2003: Message edited by: GaladrieloftheOlden ]

[Horse-Maiden of the Shire]

The bridge changing? Oh yeah, I gotcha. Ger dernit, I am so mad that there is no Scouring of the Shire. I hope Frodo's finger still gets bitten off though. Then I can laugh and people can look at me funny. <P>Legolas slips in Rohan, even though he is an elf! Come on, if I can spot it you can PJ. That was just funny. Plus Frodo's various faces that he makes. Ha Ha Ha.