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09-20-2002, 10:02 AM | #41 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
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Still am forming my own images. I've only seen the movie once, so, so far, the images of the actors have blurred (except when I finally get to watch it on DVD a few months form now).
Legolas has reformed in my mind, now. And yes, come to think of it, Aragorn does look like Jesus Christ...But I kinda like guys who look like that (like the guys who work at my favorite cd place). I really don't mind the problem with the movie disrupting the imaginations of the readers. As for E Wood, I think he did a good job. Judging from this project that he participated in, I think that he was quite meticulous about deciding to make this movie. Elijah's image just blended in with the clear protrayal of his counterpart in the books. In spite of the way the film executed the whole thing, I'd say reading it is much worth the experience. The mind makes an interpretation of its own, and Middle Earth becomes your own home--personalized into your own style.
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09-22-2002, 11:35 AM | #42 |
Animated Skeleton
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I think that I'll never be able to quite go back to that time before the movie when I had to rely completely on my own imagination for the images of ME, but whenever I'm reading it now, and I find myself lost in it, sometimes my hobbits will more resemble what they looked like before I saw the movie, and Lothlorien will look like I always thought it should look. What, for you, is the character and place in the movie that are closest to your imagination? Sam is the character for me, and hobbiton is the place.
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09-25-2002, 06:18 PM | #43 |
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To be honest, I had just started the books when I saw the movie, but I most definitely have my own images. My pet peeve has to be Elijah Wood. He did a good job, but he's just not right. For one thing, Frodo's eyes are brown...and he should be..well..rounder. As for Legolas, he's really the only one I had trouble shaking the movie picture of. Not because I thought he looked right(I didn't), but for some reason I couldn't picture Legolas. I've finally managed to work up a mental picture, though, and suffice it to say it looks nothing like Orlando Bloom.
The rest of the hobbits looked just about right, and the elves were OK(except for shieldmaiden Arwen...ick), but to throw in my own version of the 'portrait' analogy, it was like you were seeing someone that looked a lot like a friend of yours -- enough like that friend that you might call out their name, but realize as the turned around that it wasn't them at all. As for locations, well, most of them were gorgeous. I didn't really have a problem with most of the locations -- excepting Lothlórien, which didn't seem 'majestic' enough -- but it's true that they don't seem to have the sense of age, of having 'seen it all', that I get from the places in the books. Mithuial -- well, that would have to be Bilbo, and Hobbiton. Hobbiton was the only place that looked just the way I imagine it. To expand on the question, what character and place looked least like you imagine them? Legolas and Lórien, for me. |
09-25-2002, 10:31 PM | #44 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bree
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The movie didn't really affect any of my mental pictures from the book. However, I can't remember of ever having a truly personnal mental picture. I read the books so long ago, and have re-read them so many times in the interim, that over the course of time my mental picture has been significantly influenced by many, many illustrators. John Howe, Alan Lee, Ted Nasmith, Roger Garland, to name just a few, plus Tolkien's own illustrations, have helped build a picture of Middle Earth in my mind's eye. Peter Jackson's illustration is just one more influence, and a pretty good one at that.
As my wife says a movie based on a book is good or bad in reference to whether or not it insults the book or not. PJ did a good job in not insulting the book.
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09-27-2002, 11:38 AM | #45 |
Animated Skeleton
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Lorien is definately the least like I imagined it. As far as characters go I guess I can probably say that Elrond is the least like I imagined him. Maybe my Matrix agent Smith associations kept getting in the way. lol. But I think that the way Hugo plays Elrond is a little too grumpy or something.
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"And Maglor answered: 'If it be truly the Silmaril which we saw cast into the sea that rises again by the power of the Valar, then let us be glad; for its glory is seen now by many, and is yet secure from all evil.' Then the Elves looked up, and despaired no longer, but Morgoth was filled with doubt." -The Silmarillion. |
09-28-2002, 06:38 PM | #46 | |
Eidolon of a Took
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: my own private fantasy world
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For all you who think Elijah Wood is wrong because Frodo should look older and rounder, read this:
Quote:
I can say I never noticed anything wrong with Legolas. Yes, I read the book before watching the movie, and no, I don't think Orlando Bloom is a heartthrob. To be honest, the thought never occured to me before I joined this site, even though I'm an 18-year-old female. I guess Legolas has always been fuzzy in my mind, so OB filled a void. But it does seem to me that all Tolkien characters had long hair (or bushy, if a hobbit) so I'd have to disagree with whoever said Legolas had short brown hair. I have to admit I had considerable trouble with picturing Lorien in my own mind. I just could not do it. But as far as losing my own images I did have previously, I'd have to say that I had a different picture of Pippin. He had to look younger than the others, and he looks the oldest. But, by the time I finished watching the movie, I could not regain my original picture. Now I only see Billy Boyd even if I'm reading The Two Towers or Return of the King. This doesn't bother me, though, because I thought that ALL the actors did such a good job that even if their features didn't mesh, their performance did.
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09-29-2002, 10:44 PM | #47 | ||
Spirit of the Lonely Star
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Diamond18--
You cited the quote below as an example that Elijah Wood did indeed fit Tolkien's portrayal of Frodo, and that those folk who wanted an "older, rounder" Frodo were wrong: Quote:
Listen to this description which Gandalf gave to Butturbur of Frodo: Quote:
As far as age goes, remember this. Bilbo was supposed to be "stuck" at he age of 50 on account of the power of the Ring; Frodo at age 33. That would mean a 17 year difference between them in terms of appearance. Yet, if you look at the beginning of the movie and compare Bilbo with Frodo, it looks as if Frodo is much more than 17 years younger than Bilbo. And it's not just a matter of appearance. Whatever Frodo may have physically looked like, there was a definite difference in experience and authority between him and the younger hobbits who were also part of the Fellowship. There is, for example, a 15-year gap between Frodo and Sam. Often, in the earlier pages of the book and even sometimes in the middle, Frodo acts almost as a teacher for Sam (much as Bilbo must have done). It is only as they trudge towards Mordor that these roles are gradually reversed. And the age differenial was even greater with the other hobbits. The difference between Frodo and Pippin, for example, was a full 22 years. Yet, PJ never gives us a sense of Frodo's role as the older leader. I certainly enjoyed the movie, but the portrayal of Frodo in the book was very different (and preferable in my mind). Since I read the book many years before seeing PJ's film, I don't have too much trouble keeping my older images intact. sharon, the 7th age hobbit
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09-29-2002, 11:29 PM | #48 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
Join Date: Aug 2002
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7th, you hit the nail right on the head! I was really upset about making Frodo into such a wimp! It seemed like the hobbits were always yelling "Strider, Strider!" to save hopeless little, girly-man, Frodo. It was annoying.
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09-30-2002, 06:26 PM | #49 | |
Eidolon of a Took
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Quote:
I'm afraid when I watched the movie I had the image of Sam dragging Frodo around Mordor stuck in my head, so I didn't notice him being wimpier than he should have been. But I've noticed in the TTT teaser trailer that they show Frodo whipping out his sword with a dangerous look in his eyes, so maybe he won't be so girly in TTT.
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12-23-2003, 12:07 AM | #50 |
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Well I must say that it was rather rude of PJ to do that to us all. Distorting our perceptions and imaginations as they did. [img]smilies/mad.gif[/img]
But then again ... Them guys are much too cute to stay mad at for long. Especially Billy and Dominick (Pip and Merry) [img]smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] They are much too cute for words, so I will now leave and sit and think of how awesomely cute they are as Hobbits of the Shire. (Merry Christmas all) [img]smilies/smile.gif[/img] |
12-23-2003, 03:03 AM | #51 |
Beholder of the Mists
Join Date: Dec 2002
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Even though I read the books after I saw the first film, I still have my very own mental images. When I think of Frodo (especially in the first part of FOTR) I think of a shorter, wiser, older hobbit. My mental image of Gandalf the Grey is not much different from the movie version, but my version of Gandalf the White is. I also think of Aragorn looking different but it is hard to discribe. I also think of Arwen much differently. I really separate the film versions from my own.
I also think of many of the scenes differently . Like the Dead Marshes. My Dead Marshes are really dark, and are much more ominious. I also think of places like Shelob Lair differently, because I read these before I saw their version in the film, and shucks, I still like my version much better. Mine is again much darker, and more complicated. My Lorien is also much more golden, because the line about the leaves not falling and staying on the branches and turning gold is one of my favorites. I keep the film and the books differently. When I watch the film, I think of it like the film. When I read the book, I use my own mental images.
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12-23-2003, 09:41 AM | #52 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: Dec 2002
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I still have my own images. If I were able to advise PJ for a movie of The Hobbit - i would tell him: Keep up the landscapes but make them ummm well mistier, foggier, more mysterious. this is a pre- prehistory for goodness sakes. The earth was younger, more vital and alive. As with all historical movies - the actors are just too clean. They look like they just walked out of a dressing room onto a set. Of the characters in the LOTR movies, Morteson best put a face of Aragorn in the books for me. The rest I had to turn up the suspended disbelief knob in my head..
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12-23-2003, 09:50 AM | #53 |
Illusionary Holbytla
Join Date: Dec 2003
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The movie didn't ruin my perception of characters and places. Bilbo looked older than I had thought in the movie. I didn't think Frodo looked too young but they changed other things about his appearance. I never saw the Matrix but Elrond didn't look at all like I had imagined him... in the book he seemed more wise and, I don't know, something else. Merry and Pippin grew and that was okay because of the ent-draughts but in RotK when they were all standing next to each other they were the same height and they should have been taller than Frodo and Sam. Sam was pretty good but how come he never lost any weight even on such short rations? Boromir was pretty good. When Gimli came in though my first reaction was "Whoa, THAT'S supposed to be Gimli?" He was completely changed.
As for places, Rivendell seemed very fakey to me. Also Lothlorien was pretty different. I thought the Shire was just about perfect! So I guess what I did was if the movie images were similar to mine I kept those but if they were different I just sort of ignore them when I read the book. The movie also helped me in some places where I didn't have a very clear image in my mind of a character or place. Well this wasn't supposed to be a long post... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] |
12-23-2003, 02:35 PM | #54 |
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Everytime i read the book i see the movie characters, but i don't really mind because i think every actor fits well with their character.
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12-23-2003, 07:19 PM | #55 |
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Sadly I only read the books after i say the Fellowship so I had the movie characters in my mind and the way ME looked but I still ended up changing my image of some things such as pippin who I thought of being more young looking and more vulnerable even though Billy did a great job, i also think Elijah and Orlando were the perfect ones for the job.
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12-23-2003, 07:41 PM | #56 | |
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Quote:
Cheers! Lyta
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12-23-2003, 07:44 PM | #57 |
Pile O'Bones
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I started reading the LOTR trilogy after I saw the Fellowship also. When I read the books I did see the characters in the movies but it doesn't bother me because each actor really did an excellent job. The only thing that bothers me is that I keep wondering how I would have pictured them if I would have read the books before seeing the movie.
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12-24-2003, 03:52 PM | #58 | |
Wight
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Quote:
People who read the book first are expecting a big in-rush of first time book readers after the movie-going public is exposed to Tolkien for the first time. Or at least for the first time in a way they cannot ignore. Welcome to the wonderful world of Tolkien!
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For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers |
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12-31-2003, 04:18 PM | #59 |
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I read the books first, and I think my problem with the movie/books is exactly the opposite of what would be exptected. I went to see ROTK in theaters, and couldn't get the books out of my head (not that that's really a problem). A couple of times (such as when Rohan charges) I actually found myself quoting the book in my head.
Some characters were perfect. I remember going to see the Fellowship of the Ring, and right at "A wizard is never late..." I wanted to stand up in my seat and scream "Look everyone it's REALLY Gandalf".
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01-02-2004, 07:27 AM | #60 |
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(I apologise in advance for the post. Time constrains me from reading properly the entirety of the thread.)
I've thought of making a thread like this when RotK's over. But I see someone beat me to it... Fro and Sam are stuck!!!!!! So is Gandalf and Aragorn, and Gimli. That's about it. Some scenes in my mind are more grand than that of the movies(should I make the movies, then?), while some are...well...the movies themselves(maybe it has something to do with the fact that I was converted by the movies... [img]smilies/rolleyes.gif[/img] ) ->Elenrod
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01-02-2004, 07:57 AM | #61 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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Hmm well...firstly, Elijah's eyes are blue anyway, he wears clear contacts. Although of course with all the colour grading stuff in post production and what-not, I think his eyes became somewhat blue-er...and heck man, Orlando doesn't have a sissy voice! It's just kind of hoarse in the films for whatever reason. And his pronunciation of 'Aragorn' cracks me up every time I hear it...but not sissy. And dark eyebrows with blonde hair...I know someone like that! (Naturally, not dyed or anything). It looks fine, once you're used to it.
But yeah...I have a problem with creating images of people for some reason. I can imagine the place and whatever in perfect clarity, and the movies haven't changed that for me. I can switch back and forth with ease. But not ever having had images of the characters apart from a sudden flash I had when reading about Frodo's first glimpse of Arwen...I just insert the movie characters in. With some alterations or whatever of course...like no stubble on the hobbits or Elrond and whatever. Although I did assume Legolas had dark hair...where abouts in the Hobbit does it say Thranduil has blonde hair? I've never been able to find it... And as for movie Legolas ruining any interest in book Legolas...I have no problem at all. Legolas may be my favourite character in the movies (along with Sean Astin), but I hardly notice him when I read the books and stuff. I still like Aragorn, Gandalf, Frodo and Sam more than Legolas. Although it is irritating that I can't find anything more about Legolas' character...apart from that short paragraph Tolkien wrote which was defending him against 'ladylike pictorial renditions' and whatnot. If I can find it, I might post it...It might have been in Lost Tales or something, I can't remember.
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06-04-2004, 01:14 AM | #62 |
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See Private Message
Hello,
I've left a private message for you. Thanks Larmess |
06-13-2004, 02:17 PM | #63 |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Avalon
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Movies? What movies?
Yes, I'm still forming my own mental images, because I've never stopped. That's right, I must be the only person on this forum who has not yet seen any of the movies. My parents don't let me go to movie theaters, and we only watch videos occasionally, but this August I'll get to watch Fellowship of the Ring. I can hardly wait, but in a way I'll regret it, because when I read the books again I'll hear the actor's voices in my head and see the scenery from the movie instead of my original mental imagery. I'm almost sure that once I see the movie it will completely change the way I "see" and "hear" the things in the book, because it's happened to me before with other books and movies. I can't wait to see the movie, but at the same time I'm afraid, simply afraid of what it will do to my own imagination.
Last edited by Carnimírië; 06-13-2004 at 02:53 PM. |
06-13-2004, 03:18 PM | #64 |
Ghost Prince of Cardolan
Join Date: May 2004
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Most of the casting jobs PJ did fit with my image, and New Zealand exactly fit my visions of Middle Earth. however, Sean Bean was not exactly how I had pictured Boromir. (I had pictured him with darker hair...) Lothlorien fit pretty well, but Rivendell was a bit fake. All the other sets were pretty perfect (for me). But Hugo Weaving, well, he was good being Agent Smith, but not so good being Elrond. that's all I'll say. I don't want to launch into a tirade. On a more positive note, all the Hobbits fit my image pretty well.
A note to Larmess: You needn't post to notify someone of a PM that you have sent to them. They are notified automatically. (not that I'm an expert on everything, but I see that you're new here. not to assume that you don't know anything.)
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06-23-2004, 05:49 PM | #65 |
Pile O'Bones
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my vision of Arwen
When I first read about Arwen when I read the fellowship I pictured it differently then how Liv Tyler presented her. I pictured Arwen with a more aged look apon her, not physically , but emotionally and mentally. I mean yes Liv did do a good job with potraying Arwen's love for Aragorn. But I pictured Arwen more independent and her love for Aragorn to be more of how Jesus loved his disciples way. I also pictured her to be more fragile and more daint of a person with an amazing will. I alos pictured her to have more of a weary look apon her.
Oh well that is personally my thought.
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06-23-2004, 06:09 PM | #66 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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At first I thought i had been corrupted by the actors. But now, with the onset of my re-reading the books again, I find myself falling back to the old way I used to picture the characters.
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06-23-2004, 07:37 PM | #67 |
Shade of Carn Dûm
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I like to use the word contamination for this occurence. The negative connotation is not directed at the film or the filmmakers, but for myself going to watch it over 20 times, and contaminating my own imagination. For this reason I have not gone to see any of the Harry Potter movies!
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06-24-2004, 01:35 PM | #68 | |
Wight
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Wait: Why Not Think Through That Again?
Quote:
Kind of like the people in medical experiments that are given the placebo. ("Wow, man, that's some good stuff! Do you have any more of it I can take?")
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For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers |
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06-24-2004, 01:52 PM | #69 | |
Wight
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Avalon
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Quote:
It's funny, I've been considering this very thing, and I have reached no conclusion. It would be neat if I were the only Tolkien fan alive who had refused to see the movie. If I can resist...resist the corupting power of the Ring...I mean the movie. Maybe I will just say no, after all from all I've heard the movie dosn't come close to the wonder and magic of the book, so why spoil the book for myself?
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06-24-2004, 02:17 PM | #70 |
Wight
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Hmmm...well,
I really meant it in more of a selfish way, not in a way to actually try to impose my will on you.
I mean, I went to see the movies, though I knew in some way they would alter or affect my own perceptions. It was just that, if the movies were supposed to be pretty decent, then I wanted to see them, regardless of how it might affect my internal images. So it is not that you should not go see them, it is just that it would probably be really neat to have one or more frequenters of the B-D that can comment on things from the "movie virgin" vantage point. Alas, I, myself, am stained...and by my own choice.
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For I was talking aloud to myself. A habit of the old: they choose the wisest person present to speak to; the long explanations needed by the young are wearying. -Gandalf, The Two Towers |
06-24-2004, 02:33 PM | #71 | |
Etheral Enchantress
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I've actually managed to retain my own mental images of the characters. I sort of have two images running through my mind at all times: my mental image, sitting right next to the movie image. Then I quickly make up my mind as to which is appropriate, depending on the conversation. It actually remains a rather simple task, especially for characters like Arwen, Eowyn, Legolas, Merry, Pippin, Gimli, Haldir, Saruman, and Faramir, who were played with such different dispositions from those that I imagined. The physical aspects are a touch closer, but still different enough that I keep up two completely separate images.
Quote:
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"I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes |
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06-27-2004, 05:26 PM | #72 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 43
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Probably unlike a lot of people here, my mental imagery is based alot on Alan Lee's illustrations, except when it comes to the people...there, I use my own ideas about what they look like.
The only thing that has really happened because of the movies is that, whenever the wizard's speak, I hear Sir Ian McKellan and Christopher Lee. That also happens every now and again when there is a quote from the book that i've heard in the movie. So no, it hasn't done anything to disrupt my image of Middle Earth.
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06-28-2004, 02:42 PM | #73 | |
Etheral Enchantress
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Places...
Quote:
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"I think we dream so we don't have to be apart so long. If we're in each others dreams, we can be together all the time." - Hobbes of Calvin and Hobbes |
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06-28-2004, 05:40 PM | #74 |
Animated Skeleton
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 43
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Hmm...so there are other people...
Alan Lee, at least for this one (referring to myself, here), defined M-E appearance...it's just beyond words. I read all three books right before FOTR came out, and when I saw the illustration for Rivendell, it nearly knocked me flat.
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Then down the warrior tumbled/a long and weary way/ 'till at last he rested soundly/ among the water below/ bested by the darkness |
07-03-2004, 10:10 AM | #75 |
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Hmm, I'm going to go through the actors and actresses step by step in order of apearance.
Elijah/Frodo- He just was not right. I'm not sure how, but his only expressions were "the rock is going to eat me" (sorry, I've been spending too much tim around my overly spooky horse) and a look of absolute terror. Sir Ian/Gandalf- This was exactly how I pictured Gandalf and I think Sir Ian McKellan did a very good job. Now if only he'd gotten the Dumbledore part... Ian/Bilbo- He wasn't in the movie that much, so I can't really say. Sean/Sam- He was the best of the hobbit actors, but that was just not how I pictured Sam Gamgee. Billy/Pippin- He was really good. Pippin was just how I pictured him and he got the personality right too. Merry- Don't shoot me, I forget the actor's name. He was good. He was every bit the responsible hobbit I thought him to be. Viggo/Strider/Aragorn/Elessar- He was a perfect Aragorn. He was exactly how I pictured Aragorn and his personality fitted perfectly. He was quiet, and did not speak unless he had to. As I've heard, the real Viggo is the same personality as Aragorn. Quiet, kind, polite, helpful. And please not that I do NOT like Viggo. Post more later. |
07-03-2004, 05:48 PM | #76 |
Fluttering Enchantment
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I saw FOTR and then I read all three books , so i already had a picture of what everybody looked like, but i did change my view of some characters, for example:
hugo/elrond:he is way too old looking, elves are supposed to stay young looking and not age but he looks aged liv/arwen: I find she doesnt have the right look, she looks really pouty and has big lips, i dont want to be mean but i dont think shes pretty enough for that role. billy/pippin: dont get me wrong I love him as pippin but in my mind I did make him a little younger and more vulnerble looking but hes still perfect for the movies elijah/frodo: hes the complete opposite of pippin he was too imature looking like hes supposed to be 50 he didnt seem old enough for me
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Comme une étoile amarante Comme un papillon de nuit C'est la lumière qui m'attire La flamme qui m'éblouit Fenris Muffin
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07-03-2004, 06:40 PM | #77 | ||
Wight
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I have noticed that many of you have commented on the fact that Elijah looked too young for the role of Frodo, and he thus did not fit the part. I have to admit that I agree with this to a certain extent, but I only agree with the physical aspect of the point. You also have to look at the fact that Elijah showed a very mature Frodo, though young in the face. He played the part well in acting like an older Hobbit rather than a younger one. And after all, Hobbits live longer than mortal men. So who says that a 50 year old, or 33 year old when they started out, Hobbit could not look like a 20 year old human?
To further emphasize my point, I must tell a line ffrom both the movie and the books. In TTT, Aragorn mentions to the Riders of the Riddermark the following about Merry and Pippin: Quote:
Quote:
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"The price for freedom is far more than the greatest amount of gold or jewels, yet it is rarely prized among those who have it." "Do what you can, while you can, and make it last forever." ~*Rinfan*~ |
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07-03-2004, 07:10 PM | #78 |
Haunting Spirit
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Well, either I'm a really sad case of a lack of imagination, or I'm just wierd, because whenever I try to get a mentle image of whatever I'm reading, I get a blurry somewhat half-picture of whatever I'm trying to put an image to. So, as soon as I saw the movies, the images kind of stuck. AND, since I didn't have a mentle image for anyone, nothing ever bothered me. No one's looks or if they looked to young or not. I'm just me, but I think PJ actually did OK with the cast. That's at least one thing good I can say to his name. I don't know. Maybe I got dropped to many times as a young child.
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I have a very short attention span, and it sometimes affects me when I'm, ooo a squirrel.... |
07-04-2004, 07:51 PM | #79 | ||
Corpus Cacophonous
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: A green and pleasant land
Posts: 8,390
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Elijah: well-preserved?
Quote:
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Do you mind? I'm busy doing the fishstick. It's a very delicate state of mind! |
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07-05-2004, 03:01 AM | #80 | |
Haunting Spirit
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Quote:
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"Hobbits! Well, what next? I have heard of strange doings in this land, but I have seldom heard of a hobbit sleeping out of doors under a tree. Three of them! There's something mighty queer behind this." |
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