What would the ring tempt you with?

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by alatar

Understood. Think that the dream is working out very well currently for Tiger Woods.

Okay, Tiger's seen better days, maybe, but surely you can see how his lifestyle would be tempting to some, if not wise and sustainable?

Anyway, my point (I'm going to pretend to have one) is that the One Ring does not create. It gives power and control.
...
I think that the One Ring would pervert any gain obtained by its use. It's a jealous thing, and won't appreciate you spending time with that supermodel spouse while it sits at home.

Yeah, I think the idea of the One Ring is absolute power and control, and how it (to rule others) corrupts, regardless of the wielder's intentions. With the ring on your finger you have the means to enforce your own world-view on others. Few people in that situation would let the opportunity pass by, because they would fail to see the "bad" in it. Needless to say, the idea of throwing the Ring into the fires it was made from wouldn't have occurred to any leaders of the West or East in the real world, something Tolkien was well aware of.

Speaking of the supermodel wife, I think the Ring would give you the means to find out what she is doing and thinking at all times. And with the opportunity to listen in, who can resist?

But to sell one's soul for some empty pleasures? Sounds like a life like Turin's in the making.

You mean unhappy? I never got the feeling that Turin was chasing empty pleasures. He seems to have been burdened down with conflicting, high ideals rather...

[alatar]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Okay, Tiger's seen better days, maybe, but surely you can see how his lifestyle would be tempting to some, if not wise and sustainable?

Tempting to some, I guess (I'd leave the golf ). My point is that money, fame, prestige, supermodel wife doesn't always equate with a viable life. So if it *can* happen (as shown by Tiger), with the One Ring as a jealous evil player in one's life, the scales may be tipped so that it is the more probable outcome.

Yeah, I think the idea of the One Ring is absolute power and control, and how it (to rule others) corrupts, regardless of the wielder's intentions. With the ring on your finger you have the means to enforce your own world-view on others.

Force is the word. For every force there is an equal and opposite force (not sure how that comes into play).

Few people in that situation would let the opportunity pass by, because they would fail to see the "bad" in it. Needless to say, the idea of throwing the Ring into the fires it was made from wouldn't have occurred to any leaders of the West or East in the real world, something Tolkien was well aware of.

Much agreed.

Speaking of the supermodel wife, I think the Ring would give you the means to find out what she is doing and thinking at all times. And with the opportunity to listen in, who can resist?

You must not be married.

"Honey, are you listening to me?!?"

"Uh-huh."

"Well then, what did I just say?"

"Uhh..." runs for the man cave.

You mean unhappy? I never got the feeling that Turin was chasing empty pleasures. He seems to have been burdened down with conflicting, high ideals rather...

What I meant is that he used force at times to get his way, and was a bold man as well, and yet his life turned to grief. Sure, Morgoth had it in for him - bet the One Ring would act the same.

Note that we seem to be discussing two different sets of Rings as one: The One Ring, which was always trying to get back to Sauron (and so would jump to a more useful vehicle) and one of the Nine, which were made to 'stick' to the person to whom it was given in order to enslave the wearer.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by alatar

Tempting to some, I guess (I'd leave the golf ).

Right.

Force is the word. For every force there is an equal and opposite force (not sure how that comes into play).

It doesn't. Applying the methods of natural sciences on human relations is a huge mistake. I suppose the modernists were first to make make that mistake, and although it should be clear by now it was a terrible idea, politicians and social engineers show no sign of giving it up.

You must not be married.

"Honey, are you listening to me?!?"

"Uh-huh."

"Well then, what did I just say?"

"Uhh..." runs for the man cave.

Haha, as you probably guessed, I was thinking more along the lines of jealously guarding over your young supermodel wife and less about for the umpteenth time having to listen to what Debbie or Paula said at work and how that made someone feel and yada yada...

What I meant is that he used force at times to get his way, and was a bold man as well, and yet his life turned to grief. Sure, Morgoth had it in for him - bet the One Ring would act the same.

I see.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by skip spence

It doesn't. Applying the methods of natural sciences on human relations is a huge mistake. I suppose the modernists were first to make make that mistake, and although it should be clear by now it was a terrible idea, politicians and social engineers show no sign of giving it up.

I'm not giving up as well. Force someone to do something, and you build up opposite forces expressed as resentment. I see this at work sometimes in raising children. Force them to do something, and they will sandbag and resent the task and the tasker. Continue to do this and eventually, when given the chance, they will flee (not that that's a bad thing some times ) when they cannot fight back.

How much better to engage them, make them feel that they aren't being forced into doing something. Chances are that you end up with children that take the initiative and do things without being forced more often than otherwise.

Haha, as you probably guessed, I was thinking more along the lines of jealously guarding over your young supermodel wife and less about for the umpteenth time having to listen to what Debbie or Paula said at work and how that made someone feel and yada yada...

So you use the Ring to get the supermodel spouse/slave, and yet you are already unnerved that she might be thinking about straying.

Sounds like you're already on that slippery slope of having a mouthful of ashes (to randomly mix metaphors or something). I'd advise sleeping with a dagger under the pillow, just in case.

How better to win a spouse without a Ring, and then know that he/she is with you for you by their own free will, and not due to some force or trickery.

[skip spence]

Originally Posted by alatar

I'm not giving up as well. Force someone to do something, and you build up opposite forces expressed as resentment. I see this at work sometimes in raising children. Force them to do something, and they will sandbag and resent the task and the tasker. Continue to do this and eventually, when given the chance, they will flee (not that that's a bad thing some times ) when they cannot fight back.

How much better to engage them, make them feel that they aren't being forced into doing something. Chances are that you end up with children that take the initiative and do things without being forced more often than otherwise.

Ah, I see what you are saying. Instead of using overt force you fool them into thinking that the initiative to do what you want them to do actually comes from they themselves. Nice.

So you use the Ring to get the supermodel spouse/slave, and yet you are already unnerved that she might be thinking about straying.

Well yes, and why wouldn't she? I'm paranoid, possessive and not pretty to look at. But she'd better not if she knows what's good for her!

Sounds like you're already on that slippery slope of having a mouthful of ashes (to randomly mix metaphors or something). I'd advise sleeping with a dagger under the pillow, just in case.

Why? What have you heard? Better keep an eye on you too...

How better to win a spouse without a Ring, and then know that he/she is with you for you by their own free will, and not due to some force or trickery.

But what if you can't al, what if you fear that you are unable... That's the thing, isn't it? We all have something we want but can't have. The ruling Ring, whether we see it as a fictional object or a metaphor for real life power, may give you the means of obtaining that something which you crave for.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by skip spence

Ah, I see what you are saying. Instead of using overt force you fool them into thinking that the initiative to do what you want them to do actually comes from they themselves. Nice.

Ever read about Tom Sawyer?

Well yes, and why wouldn't she? I'm paranoid, possessive and not pretty to look at. But she'd better not if she knows what's good for her!

Ick!

Why? What have you heard? Better keep an eye on you too...

That would be good advise...I'm usually up to something, but the question is...what?

But what if you can't al, what if you fear that you are unable... That's the thing, isn't it? We all have something we want but can't have. The ruling Ring, whether we see it as a fictional object or a metaphor for real life power, may give you the means of obtaining that something which you crave for.

So we're motivated by the fear of something we don't have under our control? Problem is, as I've seen it, is the more you control, the more you need to control. Saruman tried to control his situation, and we see in the 'Voice' chapter that he tried to control everyone present, but that he couldn't control everybody and everything. And again, though he had Worm like a puppet, the puppet finally cut more than just his strings.

Think that you'd sleep better if you left the Ring on the road, and accepted what just is.

[The Might]

I know what the Ring would tempt me with in the short term - good grades in the coming exams.

[Urwen]

Only one thing-bringing Lalaith to world of the living (the Silmarilion one)

[deagol]

I imagine it would tempt me in much the same way the world itself tempts me . . .

with redheads.

Only . . . you know . . . worse.