Time to come clean

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

No lectures about cast stones, if you please. If he hadn't wanted a public display of displeasure, he wouldn't have made a blatantly public statement. Given that he chose a public forum for his admission, it is unfair that I should be lambasted for an honest public reaction.

Whether or not I overreact, that aspect of the matter is private, and has been dealt with quietly, efficiently, politely, and, above all, privately.

And whether or not I forgive him for misleading me for the past five years is, succinctly, nobody's business but ours.

[alatar]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

No lectures about cast stones, if you please.

I sincerely apologize, though I must say that, being older, I can't help but lecture...plus feeling 'holier than thou' always gives me such a warmth.

If he hadn't wanted a public display of displeasure, he wouldn't have made a blatantly public statement. Given that he chose a public forum for his admission, it is unfair that I should be lambasted for an honest public reaction.

Hmmm...I just reread what I wrote in response to you, and I can spin it as an explanation of *my* thoughts in regards to this. I don't think that I was saying anything about you or your reaction per se, though it is a response to "others forgive blatant deception pretty easily." I, being one of the others, did forgive because, for me, there wasn't anything to forgive. Others may feel differently, and he will have to deal with them as necessary, as I had also stated. Anyway, my response to you is an explanation of my reaction.

Sorry if you felt attacked (though I still will try to lecture when I can).

Whether or not I overreact, that aspect of the matter is private, and has been dealt with quietly, efficiently, politely, and, above all, privately.

Sure; maybe that's how you would have done it, or maybe BoroKent would have done it if he had the chance to do it again. But here we are.

And did I *state* that you overreacted?

And whether or not I forgive him for misleading me for the past five years is, succinctly, nobody's business but ours.

Much agreed. I forgave him (again; didn't care) publicly, as that was my thing.

[Herald_of_Mandos]

That's not all, people.

I have it on good authority that the so-called "Nerwen" is in reality a 15-year-old boy. ("Man-maiden" indeed!) You wait till the warders in the Home for Uncontrollable Teenagers find out what he's been up to...

[Formendacil]

Why do I feel like I've just been left out of something major?

Well, basically because I haven't been on in 24 hours and a major storm blew over. I think I'll just sit here twitching for a bit, thank you.

Okay, I'm still very much twitching. Probably will be for a while yet. There is a major mental switch that needs to be thrown. In my personal case, I am not offended--but I didn't interact with you much beyond WW, I agree the Internet is a dangerous place, and I'm a rather forgiving sort (at least, I like to think I am).

That doesn't mean I'm not totally rocking back on my heels, trying to somehow find a steady rock here. As someone who essentially tries to put forward the same face on the Internet that he does with the family, at school, I'm perhaps a touch too trusting--not that I've been burned here so much as I've ordered my world to include an older Boromir who hangs out on the 'Downs, and my world needs a slight restructuring of its metaphysics. Why, an '88 kid means I'm older than you!

The fact, however, that I am either cool with this or forgiving (I'm honestly not sure which it is, but I lean to the latter), does not mean that I do not utterly and completely disagree with the idea that "it's only the internet, it doesn't matter that much."

Unfortunately (for you) by bringing this up, you've basically allowed me to trot out one of my favourite hobby-horses. In the Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle's seminal work on Ethics, the question of what constitutes friendship, and the relationship of friendship to the moral life, is a huge part of the book, and Aristotle seems to come to the conclusion that what is necessary for friendship, in its highest form, is the free exchange of ideas: the ability to bounce thoughts and reasonings and arguments back and forth--to get to know who another person IS.

Aristotle also seems to indicate that this isn't possible unless you spend time doing stuff with them. At this point, my professor was of the opinion that you CAN'T have real friendships online because you can't know if someone else is being genuine, that the invisible clues of body language and non-verbal communication are essential to KNOWING the person you're talking to, and that this knowledge is necessary in order to have a real friendship. My basic contention is that you may not KNOW if the other person is being honest, but you CAN share ideas freely, bounce contemplation back and forth, and invest copious amounts of time on the well-being of another online.

That is precisely why, for me, this really is a big deal; because I have done that. Here, on the Downs especially, I have made, I think, dozens of friends, and even--I dare say--two or three of my BEST friends, better friends than I've made in the three years now past of my undergrad studies, better friends than three years of living in community with people, better friends than growing up 19 years in a small town. Better friends, I emphasize, based entirely on the free exchange of thought and the investment of time on a wholly virtual medium.

Which is why this matters to me, and why I fully agree that Boromir needed to come clean. Because of the amount of time he has invested--that others have invested in him--in the people here, these relationships are simply too seriously NOT to correct. I agree, too, that this coming out ought to hurt somewhat, since it is, indeed, a serious breach of trust, given the intensity that these relationships can take on. And yes, it may take time to heal.

Personally, I didn't know the fake Boromir well enough to have been hurt, and despite that my world is shaken. I'm willing to agree that "to err is human, to forgive divine"--but I realise we're all human, so the first part may be all we can hope to do.

And... yeah... I'm kind of running out of steam. Still twitching a bit, but getting used to the idea. Mind full of random thoughts...

Yes, Agan, I wondered why Facebook had two new group requests in the same day.

Yes, I had no idea who this John guy was.

"Colour" is how you're SUPPOSED to spell, Alatar.


And I prefer Boromir to Kent. Boromir was a liar, but he was a likeable liar, and he was real; Kent was honest, but he was a façade. But I think I'm going to reconcile the mental problem with John.

Pleased to meet you, John.

~Signed confusedly, verbosely, preachily, and nonsensically,

Michael A. Joosten - Formendacil

[satansaloser2005]

Couldn't have said it better myself, Form. Shorter, perhaps, but not better.



Boro, you're still cool with me and honestly, though the facts of your life aren't true you're still the same guy, so I really prefer you to stay rather than Kent, who has all your history and facts and stuff but....well, isn't you, at least not to me.

*hugs you*

And besides, regardless of how old you are or where you work (or rather, don't) you're still a flipping awesome Werewolf player and it will be my pleasure to play with/against you in many games to come. So yes, please stay Boro/John/Kent.


~~Sally/Kayla/Whatever else you all decide to call me~~

[Nerwen]

Oh, I love the Internet sometimes.

Boro, or should I say Kent– you know what this makes you, don't you?

[Mithadan]

Well, I am just... shocked. Yes, shocked! And... disgusted.

I can't imagine anyone seeking to be anything other than entirely forthright about one's identity on the internet. Nor can I conceive of any legitimate justification for concealing your age while posting on a public bulletin board, even if you were a minor at the time. I would never do any such thing. I use my own real name as a screen name. You can look me up in the phone book if you don't believe me!

And opening a second account! This must be immediately referred to the council of administrators and moderators for stern and swift disciplinary action!

[Nonesuch]

Oh, shut up "Mithadan". Stop being such a pompous jerk.

Otherwise I'll reveal to everyone that you aren't a 40ish lawyer living in Miami, but in fact that you are a 16 year old girl living in Hoboken... who's in love with Orlando Bloom!

[Mithadan]

I am not! Shut up or I'll ban you!

Actually we do frown upon people opening multiple accounts. Boromir, could you please choose one persona or another and use it exclusively going forward?

Thank you.

[Nonesuch]

Actually we do frown upon people opening multiple accounts.

Oh? Then how do you explain me?

[Mithadan]

You were created for the purpose of running a tutorial RPG, remember?

*makes note to delete Nonesuch account.

[Rikae]

I have a confession to make, too. I'm actually a 61 year old man. Those who met Rikae in RL - yes, even you, Mac - met my youngest daughter posing as me. Please forgive me.

From now on I will be posting as Boromir88.

(Seriously, this is a joke, right?)

[Boromir88]

No joke, Rikae, god do I wish it was but it isn't.

Mithadan, it will be this name...all I can say here is it started when I first joined, I had a sn for 3 months and had the lecturing of only talking to people I knew. But I wanted to talk about LOTR, didn't think I could do that with any RL friends, or even my dad who introduced me to the books. So, I joined a forum, and my very first thread/post was "Who/What is Gothmog?" I had been a member for about a week, the first couple responsed were "check the search engine" and this is "redundant." I took that the wrong way, I took it as the only way I would actually be taken seriously is if I at least started looking older than I actually was...then it kind of spiralled down from there. Once I started getting PMs from people and talking with people more, I felt it was easier to keep it up because I was working for my dad at his job, but I could just take what he was doing and pretend it was me. The reason I created Kent, was after I couldn't keep it up anymore I thought I could just let Boro disappear and be Kent, be my real age and life, not pretending I was an adult and taking my father's jobs. This isn't bravery either, I was a coward, because I was caught...I would have gone through with it had I not been.

I don't feel like I should be joking, or funny, but to at least offer the real me. I made a bet with one of my players about the Michigan-OSU game. I lost the bet, and I had to come to the school in an OSU cheerleading jersey and then take the team out to BW3s...well one of my players happened to post it on youtube, and I have been wanting to share it for so long on here, but just couldn't. Now might not be a good time, but it's a really funny video and you can at least see who I am:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdEb-6D8e1s

[Macalaure]

My goodness... I grow tree-ish for just a few months and then something like this happens?

Obviously, when it comes to forgiving, there is a huge difference between the people who talked to you more closely, and the ones who only debated or played with you on the forum. I can fully understand how wronged the former may feel, but belonging to the latter, I merely suffer a light blow to my ego due to realising that the person I fooled in WW L is in fact only half as old as advertised. So, personally, I have no trouble forgiving this. Like alatar said, there is indeed barely anything to forgive.

I just can't help wondering why you didn't come out way, way earlier and dug yourself deeper and deeper into this hole. Posting under a false identity on a forum is one thing... but getting into more personal contact with others this way, even if it's still just over the net... well...

I'm disappointed that I never really got around to read many posts by "Kent" and thus was never in the position to suspect anything. I'm happy that at least your birthday is correct. Having one of the most Taurus-like people I know suddenly turn into another sign would have disturbed by faith in astrology.

[Rikae]

It's interesting how we perceive another person's identity and what we base this on. Just the other day I chatted with Mac on Skype for the first time in months (while he sat on the other side of the room) and had the strangest feeling of meeting Skype-Mac who I hadn't seen for a while and even kind of missed - not because he's better than real Mac, but because he's the first Mac I got to know.
Now, when you mentioned deleting the Boro account in favor of the Kent one, my reaction was "What? No way! I'd miss having Boro around here!"

So at this point, it's out of your hands - Boro exists. (And as far as I'm concerned, he's still 40, since it makes me feel less old myself! Hmm, perhaps I'll start imagining everyone weighs 150% what I do, too... )

There are people whose ages I know on here who I always think of as older or younger based on personality, anyhow.

[Durelin]

It's the internet. Yes we get pretty cozy on the 'Downs here, some more than others, but the reality is there (and this coming from someone who met her *significant other* of almost 5 years on the interwebs, so don't think I'm ragging on it as silly or strange). Really it's not wise to share much true personal information in general, so pfft. And I understand parents being concerned about your internet activity. I also have done precisely what you did on other sites, and did use a second screenname on the 'Downs in order to play in an RPG loosely incognito.

Be who you want to be -- love having you around, RPing with you, playing WW with you, etc. regardless.

[Ulumuri]

Hello - I've been lurking here for over a year, but this was enough to bring me out into the open. You will never get rid of me now!

What I would like to know is how many of you have played werewolf under two or more different screen names - in the same game?

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Ulumuri

Hello - I've been lurking here for over a year, but this was enough to bring me out into the open. You will never get rid of me now!

What I would like to know is how many of you have played werewolf under two or more different screen names - in the same game?

Never... but oh, dear.... Ulumuri, I find myself looking at you hard and wondering who you are really... (Legate? Aganzir?)

No seriously, welcome to the Downs, Ulumuri.

*sigh* I fear that newbies are going to be scrutinised very heavily from now on...

(Come on, admit it, you're really Durelin, aren't you?)

[Boromir88]

I just can't help wondering why you didn't come out way, way earlier and dug yourself deeper and deeper into this hole. Posting under a false identity on a forum is one thing... but getting into more personal contact with others this way, even if it's still just over the net... well...~Mac

Stupidity? I don't know if I can tell you...I mean I first just wanted to look like I knew what the heck I was talking on LOTR about when seeing some posts from other members. Then it kind of developed with my desire to become a teacher, I thought if I appeared older than a high school student, then that desire to help and understand "students", would work better. At that time I was still in high school, I really had no idea what it was like to teach, because I pretty much only saw them in the class room environment...but I knew my dad. I knew his job, I knew from working with him how much he hated working for the fireworks business because of the "volunteer" work he had to force people to sign up for. So, that's how it came to be, I don't know what ever gave me the idea that it would be a good one.

[Aganzir]

Hahaha you look hilarious in that video. The only thing I'm sorry about is that the other guy didn't have to dress up as a Disney princess.

Originally Posted by Nerwen

(Legate? Aganzir?)

Bah I would never do that.

Anyway Boro, I have a suggestion- you could change your avatar. At least I have a tendency to imagine people look like their avvies, so it'd be easier to see you as a 20-something if you don't have a 50-something as your avatar.

[FeRaL sHaDoW]

Honestly you should not worry too much over this. I am sure almost everyone here has or is an alter ego for another account. You never know who you might just be talking to.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by FeRaL sHaDoW

Honestly you should not worry too much over this. I am sure almost everyone here has or is an alter ego for another account. You never know who you might just be talking to.

Okay... who are you, then?

[Folwren]

At first I thought this was quite humorous. And then I read some people's responses wherein the writer had apparently been stung. Then for a bit I thought it was even more humorous. But then it occurred to me, "Well, what would you feel like if someone like Elempi suddenly turned out to be your own age and not older, wiser, and more experienced?" Somewhat a disturbing thought.

However, as Dury said above, on the internet you have to be careful anyway and not give out too much personal info. I hope the close friends you have made over the 5 years don't feel too burned by this sudden change of age. (Your incorrect age was the main thing that surprised me.)

I think you should stick around. I enjoy your role-playing, when you're around to do it, and I would think it downright sad if you left the Downs after 5 years.

I have absolutely nothing to hold against you, and therefore have nothing to forgive or to excuse.

-- Foley

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Never... but oh, dear.... Ulumuri, I find myself looking at you hard and wondering who you are really... (Legate? Aganzir?)

No seriously, welcome to the Downs, Ulumuri.

*sigh* I fear that newbies are going to be scrutinised very heavily from now on...

(Come on, admit it, you're really Durelin, aren't you?)

Nerwen, I know you already well enough so that I can see through you. It is pretty clear who is Ulumuri. Okay, sorry if I ruined your fun...

Nah, but really - I think you are right about the newbies. I just hope the main wave of scrutinising newbies will drop again soon. Of course the place is a bit shaken now.

Anyway, just a small, not very important note - there was one more thing I actually thought of - I see that when playing in the last WW with Kent, killing him was truly about something different than it actually seemed... now I feel about it somewhat different than I did in the game. Relatedly... I think some things might actually sort of come to our mind in realisation only gradually - but of course, the shock itself was only initial, now the rest are just minor things like this.

[Boromir88]

Anyway Boro, I have a suggestion- you could change your avatar.~Agan

I can go back to my very 1st and original avatar, this I might have had before you joined. Like?

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Boromir88

I can go back to my very 1st and original avatar, this I might have had before you joined. Like?

Well you had it before I joined, but not before I started stalking, so I recognize it. I have nothing against it though, given that back then I was still under the impression that the 88 stood for your year of birth.

[Boromir88]

Hey if you think I need to get another one say it, it's cool. But that will be take a bit of time, and well I just love Wile E.

[Thinlómien]

Ooh cute old avvie.

[Nogrod]

Interesting indeed...

To state the obvious: those with whom you may have gotten a bit closer here in the 'Downs are the people you should talk about things BoroKent. We others who only know you as a resourceful, intelligent, civilised and friendly poster - and an excellent werewolf-player - you probably need not worry about.

My feelings can be read from many posts in this thread. Please stay around and continue posting as Boro, that is what we are used to and with whom we have enjoyd posting & playing so long. Someone said something like: it's easier to adjust oneself into thinking about a Boro "with a twist" than with the thought of Kent as someone "who-once-used-to-be-Boro". That's exactly my feelings now.

I quite liked this Kent-person though. I must admit. Although my experiences with him are limited to just two werewolf-games (he was just too good to be true?). After the dust settles we would probably settle with Kent as well even if it now feels odd.


But thinking about what could be a problem, how come you didn't decide to reveal your identity first to those who were nearer and dearer to you and only then go fully public? Or is that something only a 39-year old Boro would do? Anyway that is something you have to settle down with those people (and wasn't it just that pressure that forced you to come clean with the issue in the first place?).

I don't think you will have a problem with the rest of us, especially after your frank revealment, apologies & reasons given why you did it back then which only speak good about you. Well, if not only then mainly at least.

[Nogrod]

Haha! *The Avvie*

I haven't seen that for a long time...

[Boromir88]

(and wasn't it just that pressure that forced you to come clean with the issue in the first place?).~Nogrod

Yes, which is why with all due respect I really don't like being called brave. I would have gone through with the plan had I not been pegged, even after a while ago receiving a message from someone who said he was doing virtually what I had been doing for all these years. I felt terrible, but that still wasn't enough to admit to anyone what I was doing. It took being caught, but I wasn't going to just runaway or leave, as this was never about "haa look at all these people I am fooling!"

[Nogrod]

A few comments to add before going to sleep. (Hah, sounds like a WW-game -post...)

It's clear the problem is born when people load emotions into your person, which person is not what you let us believe it is. So when you said you had a tough time at work and it was insecure whether you had your work in the future (I don't remember the details now - which just shows I was not that fully tied into your person as Boro), I remember feeling bad about it and sympathising with you, really hoping for the best and thinking about it a few times feeling sad about your possible ill fate.

But with those you had made much more closer friends, it would be really bad. Just think how they would have actually felt sad and had worried about you - for no actual reason. Well, you surely have done that already and I guess you have already received a few PM's of that sort. And if you deserve any "punishment" let those PM's be that.

And I do hope you are able to settle things with those people as I still like you a lot and would love to see you keeping up posting here in the 'Downs.


But you really did well posing as a person a lot older you are (take it as a compliment if you wish). There were situations I was a bit insecure about the way your mind worked though - assuming as I was that you were about the same age as I am. Now I can see why it was so. Or at least think I might see it.


The question of trust and the internet being the "wild-wild-west" where you shouldn't trust anyone... That's a topic for a gazillion of pages. And even if I'm one of the first to remind people that anything you encounter in the web can be virtually (in both senses of the word) anything, then again I have met a handful of 'Downers in RL and they have all been more or less what they have appeared to be around here - basically just more charming and more lovable (even the "grumpy Rune" is the most hilarious person you could imagine to meet anywhere).

But the basic trust has been built over years of discussions around here. Now your case Boro, even if there wasn't anything malvolent behind it (which I do believe there wasn't), kind of readjusts the table a bit as you were able to keep up the appearance for so long.

Although I must say that's only a bit, to me at least. Those people you can call "predators" or something like that lurking around the internet looking for a pray rarely have the patience to wait for five years, and rarely hang around this kind of sites (I hope and pray that is correct)... So I wouldn't either suggest that you should not meet a fellow 'Downer the next time you have a chance to.

We should not give up good things from life just because of fear of something possibly being not safe (which doesn't mean one should be a fool of a Took).

Okay... Too much babbling already.

I hope we can discuss all that pains anyone, either publicly here or via PM's. And I also do hope we have Boro or Kent around in the future - but not both.

And when I finally manage to travel to the US one year or another I'm looking forwards to meeting you John(?). It may take years, a decade... whatever. But you are one of the persons I'd love to meet if I travel there.

[Morthoron]

If it makes you feel any better, I could care less.

[Ulumuri]

Originally Posted by Morthoron

If it makes you feel any better, I could care less.

Which, of course, means you care at least somewhat.

[Morthoron]

Originally Posted by Ulumuri

Which, of course, means you care at least somewhat.

You don't know me very well -- I really don't care. I am more irritated that there are 2 or 3 minutes of my life I can't get back because I scanned this thread.

D'oh! I replied again!

[Ulumuri]

In that case, "couldn't care less" might have been a better choice of words.

Sorry, but that phrase is a pet peeve of mine.

[Nerwen]

Originally Posted by Ulumuri

In that case, "couldn't care less" might have been a better choice of words.

Sorry, but that phrase is a pet peeve of mine.

Ooohhhh... this is indeed a thread of revelations!

All this time I've assumed that "could care less" was just a typo for "couldn't care less"! (Never having heard someone say it, you see.)

[Inziladun]

At the risk of attracting skwerl attention, I'll say the way people use that phrase incorrectly always irritates me as well. When they say 'I could care less', they're actually saying the opposite of what they intend.
Of course if I bring that to people's attention, their reaction is usually to tell me the same thing, but in a more colorful manner.

[Mithadan]

Ok. I've poked a bit of fun at this situation, together with my alter ego, Nonesuch (I promise to rep the first person to figure out the source of that nickname). I acknowledge that Boromir is experiencing a degree of angst and that some people may be annoyed with him, or at least a bit confused. I'm just not sure why and I'm beginning to find this whole thing a bit tedious.

The great thing about a bulletin board is that it is anonymous (more or less, anyway; we administrators have special powers - for example I know exactly who Ulumuri is). We can reveal as much or as little of our true selves as you may choose. Some remain entirely anonymous, others reveal their true selves to a select few privately and, sometimes, people are rather open about their identities.

This is the internet, people! I have exchanged my identity with a select few on this site, and assume, but do not know, that the names and locations I have been provided are real. I am not Mithadan. That is to say, the person tapping away on this keyboard, whether he is a 40ish lawyer in Miami, a 16 year old Orly fangirl in Hoboken, or whatever, is not Mithadan.

If I were 15 or 16 and determined to post on a Tolkien Board, I would certainly not disclose any real information about myself. This would be the case even if I were "close" with other posters and had created a PM, e-mail or Facebook relationship with other posters. We have had allegations made of potential stalking by parents of posters here. On each case, the alleged stalker and the alleged stalkee were in fact separated by a rather broad ocean. But we encourage everyone to be careful. A messageboard is anonymous only until you take the next step of communicating by PM, e-mail or other means. We can't control what happens then.

I don't blame Boromir for being careful. I don't blame anyone he (or she ) may have communicated with beyond this public forum to be a bit annoyed that he is not what or who he said he was. But again, I ask why?

It's good to be careful; we don't know who or what is posting here. So, I'm getting a bit bored of this thread. Boro, apologize privately to whoever you have to apologize to. Everyone, foregive Boro or not (I have). And let's get on with it...

By the way, Boro, you never communicated with me by PM or e-mail about whoever you said you were, but honestly, if asked on the basis of your posts, I would have pegged you as a late teen from day one. Everyone needs to understand that age has very little to do wth how well or much one can contribute here...

[Ulumuri]

Originally Posted by Mithadan

Ok. I've poked a bit of fun at this situation, together with my alter ego, Nonesuch (I promise to rep the first person to figure out the source of that nickname).

Either Huck Finn (or rather, the show put on by his con-artist acquaintances, "The Royal Nonesuch"), Randy Newman's label, or mince pie filling?

The great thing about a bulletin board is that it is anonymous (more or less, anyway; we administrators have special powers - for example I know exactly who Ulumuri is).

Although I'll grant that you may know my IP address, if your knowledge actually extends beyond that to the person behind the keyboard... supernatural powers...

[vacates confession thread, never to return, lest she contribute to Morthadran's boredom]