Tol-in-Gaurhoth LII: Star Crossed II: Together for Eternity

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Would you like to trade situation with me? I haven't seen anyone who looks suspicious... ("Particularly suspicious, would be a better phrasing, though.)

No.

While I agree that rule-talk can lead to talking much without revaling your own alignment, it's not a bad thing to know the rules. It's easier to get rid of someone when you know what you're looking for. It doesn't matter so much now, but on say Day4 it would be nice to know how big a percent of the fellow villagers are your enemies and how many are not.

But we won't get to know the rules, no matter how much we talked about them! We won't get to know what we are looking for - except that there are lovers. We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.
What was the actual point of your response?

Easily. By the way, I find it mightily amusing, that in this game everybody is calling each other "dear", "darling" or "love". Makes me paranoid.

Well since we're all looking for a partner or two, it should be normal.

edit: xed with Fea

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Agan

And Rikae and Mac, it's not that black-and-white. Who knows if one of you is an ordo and the other a gifted? Mac's response to Rikae looks a bit like, I don't know, wolfish (I am going to use this word despite there being no werewolves, period).

I can't put my finger on it really. Dunno. Mac just seems to be too quick to forget the gifted factor, like a wolf trying to think like an innocent but not wholly succeeding. Does naybody understand what I mean?

I understand, and I agree to an extent. Like, I can understand why you say that but I'm not sure if Mac really strikes me as suspicious.

Originally Posted by Agan

And no, it doesn't really matter whether I speculate about gifteds at the beginning of day 1 - especially as we don't even know for certain if there are any. If someone has something against it, lynch me, that's the only way to get me to shut up.

Quite a jumpy statement.


edit: xed with Agan

[Groin Redbeard]

Okay I have to be leaving soon so I'll give you my analysis so far.

Legate: Back to his usual self: giving good analysis and entering in the disscussion to help stimulate a chance of catching a real wolf.

Lommy: Silly.

Aganzir: Trying to sound like she's helping everyone by posting and showing that she's here. Her posts are somewhat helpful, but they're mostly full of petty arguments on the best way to capture a wolf (something along those lines).

Rikae: No clue yet, seems intent on getting Mac lynched.

That's it, I'll be back later.

EDIT: Xed 2Aganzir, 1Fea, 2Lommy

[Rikae]

Hmm...
just wanted to add, "jumpiness" is a very easy accusation to use against Mac, since he tends to respond that way regardless of his role. Not saying he's not suspicious, but since we almost certainly have baddies going after each other in this game...

Agan -
First, sure, let's lynch the quiet ones - I'm fine with that (but it's it Noggie's job to bring that up?)
Second - Sally's rhetorical questions aren't very helpful (I mean, seriously, who's going to suspect Legate for having a "nice little list"?), but seem to be something she uses fairly often, baddie or innocent.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since Fea, who makes me wonder if she's ever read a scholarly article on literary theory.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But we won't get to know the rules, no matter how much we talked about them! We won't get to know what we are looking for - except that there are lovers. We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.
What was the actual point of your response?

Well, we don't get to know the rules, but surely we are not in total darkness even now. We know there are lovers. We know there are no werewolves as such. It's almost safe to assume that we have some gifted. So there is stuff to discuss. (But we have done quite a lot of that already, yes, and I'm not implying we should do more of it.) And besides, you didn't ask "what does it matter if we talk about the roles" but "what does it matter whether we know them or not", and there's a big difference.


edit: xed with Groin and Rikae

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.

Bolding mine -
where did that come from? Kind of out of the blue...

EDIT: X'd with Lommy.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I should also just mention that every single player knows exactly what her or his role is and discussion of so-called hypothetical roles runs a very high chance of getting somebody to accidentally spill more than they intended about things they're not supposed to know about.

It goes along with the phantom's theory of lists: only ordinary villagers can create suspicion lists without motive. A bad guy creating a suspicion list must by definition use the list to cast suspicion intentionally. By the same principle, a bad guy creating hypothetical constructions of game roles can't possible hurt us while it can very easily give us information.

Ergo, anybody denying the validity of creating hypothetical lists either doesn't understand the significance of seeking motive, or doesn't want to have to construct posts which look more innocent than they are.

[Brinniel]

Okay, in an attempt to get the game straight...

We have an unknown amount of lovers, but after the Night phase we will have a somewhat idea of how many there are. Then again, how will we know if a player's been successfully protected by the ranger? Or what happens if two pairs of lovers choose the same kill...will only that player die or will one pair get to pick again? Also, if one pair of lovers kills the another pair, does the doomed pair still get to kill?

The rules here are rather vague, and it seems as usual I'm confused...

The idea that each pair gets a separate kill is a bit scary...the Nights could end up as quite a slaughter. Then again, the fact that the lovers go down together means that we only have to kill half of how many baddies there are out there...which I suppose evens things up a bit.

Btw, the Day might've started out quiet, but now it's so active I'm having trouble keeping up with everyone.

EDIT: X-ed with a gazillion posts...

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I should also just mention that every single player knows exactly what her or his role is and discussion of so-called hypothetical roles runs a very high chance of getting somebody to accidentally spill more than they intended about things they're not supposed to know about.

An excellent point - shame you had to mention it.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

If you want anybody to be able to follow what you're saying, you need a valid starting point. Attempting to create a solid start point (trying to figure out what roles exist) makes it a lot easier to follow when you start positing theories. I mean, how can you suspect people when you don't even know the crime?

There are lovers who kill, that much should be clear although Di hasn't dold anything, and in my opinion that's all we need to know. How does speculating about what roles there might or might not be help to make a valid starting point? Do you want to make a dozen different theories about what roles there are, and then a few theories about how different players would fit in those roles?

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

Quite a jumpy statement.

Why?

Originally Posted by Rikae

Bolding mine -
where did that come from? Kind of out of the blue...

It came from my head and the point is that there might be anything and we wouldn't get to know it so why speculate at all.

edit: xed since Fea

[Brinniel]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But we won't get to know the rules, no matter how much we talked about them! We won't get to know what we are looking for - except that there are lovers. We don't know if the lovers work in pairs or if there's a creature team, every one of them having a lover, and we won't get to know it.

Am I wrong to assume that this game is supposed to go something similar to Di's last game, and in that game weren't there multiple lovers working in pairs? Or perhaps we should completely throw that last game out the window and assume that anything is possible?

[Thinlómien]

Okay, Brinn, in an attempt to get this game straight I will answer your questions and tell what I think...

Then again, how will we know if a player's been successfully protected by the ranger?

In a vast majority of the ww games I've played in, the succesfull protection can be read in the narration.

Or what happens if two pairs of lovers choose the same kill...will only that player die or will one pair get to pick again?

It would make far more sense to me that only the one person would die. I mean, why would one pair get another chance then? And how would it be determined which one will get the new kill? The ones who submitted their kill later? What if tha players are not around to give a new name? Too complicated, I say.

Also, if one pair of lovers kills the another pair, does the doomed pair still get to kill?

I would assume that they would.


edit: xed with Rikae, Agan and Brinn

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

I'm fairly optimistic about toDay actually. Like a couple others have said, our chances of finding a baddie aren't too shabby. And two for the price of one always makes me happy.

But the worse it would be if we did not manage to lynch any. So, let's beware!

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

On the contrary, on the last game Legate was a wolf and his attitude now is different from his wolvish attitude. Before he would just pop in and give his analysis of people, in the hopes of creating confusion I'm assuming, and would only enter into disscussion with the players if he was accused. Now he is actually entering into the disscussion. But if I'm wrong...

One note, Groin. In the last game, I was a Wolf only on Day 3. Before that, I was completely innocent.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Why?
What does it really matter whether we know what roles there are or not? Well if we want to talk about something which doesn't reveal much about a person's alignment (except for a possible yet unlikely slip), okay. I suppose it's a way to get the discussion rolling, too, but... I don't like it. I do it occasionally anyway. Still, it's a way to talk much without really saying anything.

I don't think so. If there are any Gifteds, that would be a big bonus, and an important thing to know. Because otherwise, we may lynch "weird" people who are behaving unusually just because they are Gifted.

EDIT: Oh my, x-ed since somewhere on the previous page.

[Rikae]

Yellow light means -go very, very fast.

Methinks Aganzir, Macalaure, and Lommy are all baddies of some sort. I have a pesky 'lil paper to write on Machiavelli (who is a cobbler), ya know, so I'm going to have to skedaddle for a bit, gosh darnit, but if I keep talking like this, well, heck, somebody might make me vice president.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Rikae

An excellent point - shame you had to mention it.

Being truthful doesn't make the strategy any less effective.

If we let people be silent by agreeing that there's nothing worth discussing, we have nothing to go on. If we force discussion about a specific topic, we force what will essentially be a series of lies from people who know more than everybody else about what's going on. The more lies a person is forced to tell, the easier it is to pick out inconsistencies, as well as it being easier to glean knowledge we probably wouldn't otherwise have. Plus creative thought spawns creative thought.

Ergo, my suspicion is:

There are no werewolves, but there are presumably bad guys who exist as metaphorical werewolves as we know them. There are lovers for at least a portion of the bad guys. The bad guys may or may not (as Agan pointed out) work with both each other and their lovers: so there may be a tangled web of non-ordos with victory in mind, trying to kill everybody but themselves by manipulating others. Does that make sense? I think it does, but I'm not sure.

In that hypothetical situation, say there are like four wolves, all of whom can work together. And we know there's at least one lover, because this is a lovers game. So of those wolves, in this situation, one of them is working with the wolves to kill all of the ordos except for the lover. So in this case, as I see it, the lover-wolf would have to be careful not to reveal which ordo is the lover, because the wolves don't want them to win any more than they want the ordos to. My god this is complicated.

Okay so, so far if we go with Agan's theory that there's a creature team as well as individual sets of lovers, than the bad guys should be even more crippling to each other because they'd have to work together while trying not to. I wish I could be a fly on the wall for those PM sessions if that's a reality. Can you imagine?

Agan, just questioning: was there something you read that made you suspect there might be both a 'wolf' team as well as individual lovers? Was that something that happened in the last game?

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Why?

You take the defensive mode rather quickly. Why would anyone want to lynch you just because you speculate a little about gifteds in the beginning of Day1? Isn't that normal?

And your latest post too, it's so defensive. You are playing oddly.


edit: xed with Legate, Rikae and Fea

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

I should also just mention that every single player knows exactly what her or his role is and discussion of so-called hypothetical roles runs a very high chance of getting somebody to accidentally spill more than they intended about things they're not supposed to know about.

I really doubt that. I was a wolf once in a game where roles were kept secret - we knew there was another wolf team but the village didn't, so we had to pay extra attention so as not to slip anything (and we succeeded in that). I don't think our baddies would be any less careful.

Originally Posted by Brinniel

Am I wrong to assume that this game is supposed to go something similar to Di's last game, and in that game weren't there multiple lovers working in pairs? Or perhaps we should completely throw that last game out the window and assume that anything is possible?

She said some changes might be introduced but didn't tell anything more. It might or might not be like the last game. We can't know.

edit: xed since Legate

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Feanor of the Peredhil

Agan, just questioning: was there something you read that made you suspect there might be both a 'wolf' team as well as individual lovers? Was that something that happened in the last game?

No. It was something that occurred to me while I was writing the very post in which I mentioned it. And no, it's not a theory I would really believe in unless I am proven otherwise. I didn't play in the last game but apparently there were just separate lover pairs.

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

You take the defensive mode rather quickly. Why would anyone want to lynch you just because you speculate a little about gifteds in the beginning of Day1? Isn't that normal?

The point was not that someone would want to lynch me because of speculating about gifteds, the point was that today I am too talkative to be silenced but by death. I should probably have said "if someone has a problem with me talking and being annoying and demanding all the attention &c."

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

I don't think so. If there are any Gifteds, that would be a big bonus, and an important thing to know. Because otherwise, we may lynch "weird" people who are behaving unusually just because they are Gifted.

But we won't know if there are gifteds, and we can lynch gifteds without knowing they are gifted anyway. Like I could be a gifted and since I won't be around at deadline you could just lynch me (not that I'd be a gifted - I'm not).

Hah now I know what's the problem with me! My avvie! Lommy once said she can't take anything I say seriously while I have this avatar.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Aganzir actually looks more like innocent to me lately.

Rikae looks more like innocent to me now, too.

Fea seems to look also innocentish to me.

Anyway:

Originally Posted by Aganzir

I really doubt that. I was a wolf once in a game where roles were kept secret - we knew there was another wolf team but the village didn't, so we had to pay extra attention so as not to slip anything (and we succeeded in that). I don't think our baddies would be any less careful.

But about this, I am not so sure. I think such slips may actually happen.

EDIT: Great! At last I didn't crosspost with anybody.

[Lalaith]

Only skim-read so far - I'll read everything closely later tonight.
But I am presuming, for the sake of my sanity, that Di linked to her previous rules for a reason, in that they have some bearing on the current game.

But I don't wonder that this game feels weird. Even if the rules are the same as previously, we will, as Nogs has already shown, face carnage tonight. So there's a certain devil-may-care, eat-drink-and-be-merry-for-tomorrow-we-die feeling about the place.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

Fea seems to look also innocentish to me.

All I ever ask for in life...

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

But about this, I am not so sure. I think such slips may actually happen.

And I said it's possible but very unlikely. If you have to keep in your mind all the time that you know more than the rest, would it make you more careful? And mind you, the game I was speaking of had three newbie wolves and no one slipped anything.

edit: xed with Lal and Fea

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

But we won't know if there are gifteds, and we can lynch gifteds without knowing they are gifted anyway. Like I could be a gifted and since I won't be around at deadline you could just lynch me (not that I'd be a gifted - I'm not).

Wait, one thing. Somehow I did not notice this one before (I probably crossposted with it, later thinking it was the one I already read). What you say does not make sense (syntactically, semantically) with what you reply to. I said: it will be good to know what roles are around, f.ex. if we have Gifteds. Because for example, had I known for sure that there are NO Gifteds in this game now, I would not have any doubts if I found somebody behaving really, really weirdly, and I would lynch him rightaway. But if I knew there are Gifteds, I could start to ponder whether this weirdness is not a Giftedness instead of Wolfiness.
Not sure what you were supposed to say by the comment.

Originally Posted by Aganzir

And I said it's possible but very unlikely. If you have to keep in your mind all the time that you know more than the rest, would it make you more careful? And mind you, the game I was speaking of had three newbie wolves and no one slipped anything.

Now thinking of it again, thank you for saying it. Now it makes sense.

[Gollum the Great]

After what happened last game I find it difficult to trust either Legate or Lommy, but I won't let that bias me. Agan seems jumpy, Legate the guy with a massive brain he always is, and Mac and Rikae ready to go for Agan's throat. The others have made to few (if any) posts for me to make any decisions off of.
Tinkertetonk. Be back soon.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Legate of Amon Lanc

What you say does not make sense (syntactically, semantically) with what you reply to. I said: it will be good to know what roles are around, f.ex. if we have Gifteds. Because for example, had I known for sure that there are NO Gifteds in this game now, I would not have any doubts if I found somebody behaving really, really weirdly, and I would lynch him rightaway. But if I knew there are Gifteds, I could start to ponder whether this weirdness is not a Giftedness instead of Wolfiness.
Not sure what you were supposed to say by the comment.

Err in truth I'm not sure. My thinking process goes in Finnish and I'm positive that when I don't pay too much attention to what I write, at least half of my thoughts are lost in translation. And now that I read it, it doesn't make sense to me either.

I suppose the main point was that there's no way we could find out what gifteds there are, if there are any. Ahh and also I had myself as an example of someone who's behaving weirdly, and meant that if I was a gifted instead of just weird and you had a bandwagon against me towards the end of the day when I would be fast asleep, I wouldn't have a chance to come out before it would be too late.
Okay in truth I have no idea where I was getting at with that post.

edit: xed with Gollum

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Ah, but if you played a cautious wolf, someone might note that that is exactly the strategy that always worked for you before. At least, this way, you have the above excuse ready-made.

ooops.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Stirring the pot? I can see what you mean in Lommy's case, but vague suspicions aren't worth much, are they (until everyone starts echoing them, and, before you know it, you have a pointless, useless bandwagon on your hands which isn't even helpful after the fact for finding baddies...).

Of course vague suspicions aren't worth much, but that was all I had at the point, so why shouldn't I share it?

Talking about useless bandwaggons: I'd like to jump on Aganzir's against Sally.

Lommy is too nice and seems to try to not make any enemies (apart from Aganzir).

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

Agan seems jumpy

Your reasons please.

Oh and before long you will probably find out that my throat is very popular among these lonely people. Fetishists...

edit: garr xed with Mac

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Originally Posted by Gollum the Great

After what happened last game I find it difficult to trust either Legate or Lommy, but I won't let that bias me.

Yes, and are you aware that until the last day when I was rightfully lynched, I was a wrongfully suspected innocent?

EDIT: x-ed since Gollum

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Talking about useless bandwaggons: I'd like to jump on Aganzir's against Sally.

Hey darling it's not a bandwagon, it's random suspicion though the grounds could be called feeble since it's only this early in the game (but that was all I had at the point, so why shouldn't I share it?). If you go back and read like five games I've last been playing you can see similar suspicions regardless of what my role has been.

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

Is Lommie crazier than usual? Or is it just me?

Lommy is always crazy (well, at least in WW)

Originally Posted by satansaloser2005

The problem is that once night hits a big chunk of this village is going the way of the dodo, so we best hope to indeed get baddie(s) today so they can't kill off so many in the Night.

But won't there also be more chance of them killing each other (If it's like the last game). Well, it's all shrouded in mystery. But there's no use speculating on what roles there are today, because we have nothing to go on, and we might just make it harder for ourselves.

I'll be back after reading the thread

[A Little Green]

Originally Posted by Rikae

And, Aganzir, I agree on the gender thing - we should lynch all the females in alphabetical order.

Thanks a lot, darling.

Well, anyway - I'm finally here and I can say right away that I don't suspect anyone. Maybe I'll just make a list.
Groin - No read.
Lommy - Basic lommism, meaning that she feels innocentish but knowing her she could as well be a naughty evil thing who is laughing at us all.
Aganzir - She's indeed playing a bit oddly. Maybe she's a cobbler. She tends to be more smooth as a real baddie and certainly more smooth as a gifted. but then somehow she doesn't feel like an ordo.
Legate - That guy is plain silly. Which means that I should be worried - he plays very differently from what I remember, or at least gives different vibes. He seems somehow more joking and absurd and cheerful than he usually does in WW. As though he had nothing in the world to worry about.. Then another thing related to Legate - I don't know why, but I'm a bit uneasy with the seeming air of"Oooh Legate he's a good wise player let's listen to what he says!" around. Not that we shouldn't listen to him also, but if he's a baddie that attitude can be pretty dangerous.
Kitanna - No read.
Gollum - No read.
Nogrod - Has been surprisingly quiet, I wonder if this is again one of those games where he promises to talk less...
Brinniel - Nice and confused, as always. No idea of what her role could be.
Sally - No idea.
Shasta - Where is he?
Gwath - Where is he?
Rikae - A hard case. No idea as yet.
Mac - Seems innocentish?
McCaber - Where is he?
Fea - I haven't the foggiest idea, could be anything.
Eönwë - No read.
Lalaith - Where is she?
Eomer - Where is he?

This is all I can come up with this far. Nice jokes at the beginning, guys.
Ahem.

Maybe I'll just shut up when I have nothing more to say.


EDIT: x-ed since Gollum

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Aganzir

Hey darling it's not a bandwagon, it's random suspicion though the grounds could be called feeble since it's only this early in the game (but that was all I had at the point, so why shouldn't I share it?). If you go back and read like five games I've last been playing you can see similar suspicions regardless of what my role has been.

I said "useless bandwaggon" as a joke, what I just meant was: I agree with your point. I wonder... what I said was absolutely no attack against you, why did you defend yourself? You confused me there, honey.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by A Little Green

Then another thing related to Legate - I don't know why, but I'm a bit uneasy with the seeming air of"Oooh Legate he's a good wise player let's listen to what he says!" around. Not that we shouldn't listen to him also, but if he's a baddie that attitude can be pretty dangerous.

I definitely agree, but then on the other hand we all know those young men are crazy about him. I guess we just have to understand them...

Anyway there was especially this:

Originally Posted by Groin Redbeard

Legate: Back to his usual self: giving good analysis and entering in the disscussion to help stimulate a chance of catching a real wolf.

Aganzir: Trying to sound like she's helping everyone by posting and showing that she's here. Her posts are somewhat helpful, but they're mostly full of petty arguments on the best way to capture a wolf (something along those lines).

Sorry if I overestimate myself but I don't really see how Legate was at that point so much more helpful than I. Yes I admit I was joking more than he but still. It's the way you have formulated the post; Legate is helping and clever while I try to sound helpful (instead of actually trying to be helpful) and my arguments are petty (although I was joking, I wasn't doing it all the time).

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If Mac is aknowledging that Rikae is attacking him just as a joke, why does he bother to defend himself? Is he a bit jumpy maybe?

Aren't you being jumpy? Picking out anyone who might be the slightest bit suspicious, or just simply wants to defend themselves so early in the game (After all, despite what I said in my above post, it's better- or at least more sensible- if we kill the wolves now. Both ways its down to luck and vague suspicions, at least this early in the game).

I'm definitely going to x-post so I won't even bother writing who with.

edit: turns out it's only Aganzir.

[Aganzir]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

I said "useless bandwaggon" as a joke, what I just meant was: I agree with your point. I wonder... what I said was absolutely no attack against you, why did you defend yourself? You confused me there, honey.

I didn't get your joke, bunny, and thought it was a weak point since you had just said yourself that you posted something because it was all that you had.

edit: xed with Eönwë

[Eönwë]

Originally Posted by Rikae

Now, does Mac know that? Is he being jumpy? It's possible, I suppose.

First she disassociates herself from him by suspecting him, then she defends him. But would Di really make them a couple just to tease us?

x-ed with Agan again

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Agan

Hah now I know what's the problem with me! My avvie! Lommy once said she can't take anything I say seriously while I have this avatar.

I just really can't!

Originally Posted by Mac

Lommy is too nice and seems to try to not make any enemies (apart from Aganzir).

I'm not trying to make enemies with her! Do you want proof? For I was just thinking that she looks more and more innocent as the Day proceeds.

Originally Posted by Agan

Oh and before long you will probably find out that my throat is very popular among these lonely people. Fetishists...

Really too bad - I first read "Fenrisists" and thought "ha! caught you!"...

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Lommy is always crazy (well, at least in WW)

Why thank you.

Originally Posted by Greenie

Nogrod - Has been surprisingly quiet, I wonder if this is again one of those games where he promises to talk less...

Well, I wouldn't be worried - it's less than 9pm, he could still be at work and returning about this time and then be around here until the wee hours of the morning... Haha.

Originally Posted by Eönwë

Aren't you being jumpy? Picking out anyone who might be the slightest bit suspicious, or just simply wants to defend themselves so early in the game (After all, despite what I said in my above post, it's better- or at least more sensible- if we kill the wolves now. Both ways its down to luck and vague suspicions, at least this early in the game).

No, I'm merely trying to find suspiciousish behaviour. Too bad if there isn't very much of it at this phase yet.

Now that I've been thinking, I've got the feeling there's something odd about Rikae.

[Eönwë]

Is it me, or is it just us Europeans at this time of day (night- well, 7 here, but it's dark).

[Kitanna]

Originally Posted by Noggy

I looked back at the previous installment of this game. There were five deaths on the first gameNight: watcher, one pair of lovers and two ordos. So about 1/4th of the village was wiped out in a single Night.

Oh the carnage...at least a pair of lovers was killed, right? (insert hopeful smile)

Originally Posted by Legate

Kit is hardly saying anything, could be wishing to slip under the radar.

Curse that busy schedule of mine.

Originally Posted by Rikae

3) After the last game, I swore to do my utmost to get him lynched on day one.

About Mac.

Originally Posted by Groin

Sounds fair enough. I promised that I'd lynch her if I ever played with her again.

About Agan

Originally Posted by sally

I'm up for it too.

Agan again...
There seems to be a lot of vengeance out in this village. I feel left out because I don't have anyone to take revenge out on.

But in seriousness (even if for a moment) is the idea that Lommy and Legate had jumped out to a few people. I want to take a look into those who suggested it and Lommy and Legate themselves. I see nothing particularly odd about either so I'd like to see what makes them so suspicious to the few (sally and Mac I remember off the bat) who brought them up.

Also this from Rikae makes me wonder:

2) Di wouldn't make both Mac and I ordos. Ergo, he has a role, and, judging by point #1, that role is an evil one.
I realize this point doesn't do anyone any good until I'm dead, but that shouldn't take long when Mac is evil.

Very easily her attempt to see Mac lynched is a joke, but at the same time...

For the record, just because I add a joke to something, doesn't mean I'm entirely joking.
Now, does Mac know that? Is he being jumpy? It's possible, I suppose.

So her suspicions of Mac are half-serious. What worries me about this is it feels like a bluff. Something like "Well, I'm obviously innocent and you'll completely and utterly regret lynching me, so don't even try." At first glance the first quote from Rikae didn't seem all that bad, but as I reread it I started to worry. It looks like Rikae is trying a bit too hard to cement herself as an innocent.

Originally Posted by Agan

Mac's response to Rikae looks a bit like, I don't know, wolfish...Mac just seems to be too quick to forget the gifted factor, like a wolf trying to think like an innocent but not wholly succeeding. Does anybody understand what I mean?

I get what you're saying, but given how I feel about Rikae's "accusation", I don't know how suspicious Mac really is. Maybe Mac was jumpy, but innocents can get jumpy and defensive too.

I am still frantically trying to read through the posts, but I have to attend to a few other things first. I will probably vote in a little less than an hour and a half, hopefully I'll get a chance to look at those who pointed out Lommy and Legate.