Would There Ever Be a Possibility...?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

One note concerning the male/female voices. I think it's going to become soon obvious that there are far more female voice actors than there are female characters in LotR (not very surprising, as there are only two or maybe three who have more than a few lines). It would probably sound strange for a female to dub Gandalf (although if she were good, even that would be possible), but I think the Hobbits' voices and some Elves could be spoken by female voices with no problem. As well as the narrator, eventually.

[Nerwen]

Re: Skype– good for cheap long distance calls, but not for recording. You get weird delays and distortion.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Re: Skype– good for cheap long distance calls, but not for recording. You get weird delays and distortion.

I'm not sure if I understand this correctly, but apparently you get better quality by recording from the user's computer (?) - perhaps the Skype add-on doesn't record that way. Skype itself, in my experience, usually has good sound quality but tends to have delays/skipping on weekends. If it were possible to record from the computer of one of the users, it shouldn't sound different than the call itself, I suppose... right?

http://www.nch.com.au/phone/voip/recordingcompared.html

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Rikae

We seem to be short on everything, actually, except women. I wonder if actively recruiting people would be helpful, or counter-productive (bringing in people who weren't that committed to the project).

I know what you mean, yet perhaps we just need to look around more. I'm sure there are more people (men in specific) who would be committed and interested in this. I know one of my friends who is a big LotR fan who would love to participate, and he could do more than 1 voice, I believe. This is still a brand new idea...I'm sure we'll attract more eventually. I hope!

Originally Posted by Rikae

We can just get started, though - record one scene (Shadow of the Past again comes to mind) for which we already have enough actors and hope more come on board after seeing what is possible.

Not a bad idea, but I'd rather do a part of Book II and just wait until we get enough people. After all, everything that goes along with this (writing, music, sounds, etc.) is going to have to be taken care of before we start acting and recording. So all in all it's going to take some time as is.

Originally Posted by Rikae

How about music? Are there any composers lurking around who are interested in lending their skills to this project? *nudge, nudge*
I'm an ex-music major and play a few instruments badly, but I know there are far more qualified people in the 'downs...

I am not much of a composer, although I do play bass/guitar...I would think classical riffs are where it's at for this though, and I'm not too good at scales and such...I suppose we can see what the scene calls for?

Also, I was thinking this - if we go with the green light on a chapter/scene, should we take Tolkien's words, word for word, and not change any dialogue? I am for this, as we all as die hard's know the Book shouldn't be changed. It wouldn't be hard to not change it, if we only did a section at a time, if that is what we did.

One more question, for now - How are we going to incorporate the "Frodo said.", etc. into the dialogue? Do you know what I mean? For example Frodo speaks, and then in the book it says "Frodo said" to let the audience know who just spoke to avoid confusion. I suppose with actual voices it may not be hard to tell but to some it may.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by MatthewM

I am not much of a composer, although I do play bass/guitar...I would think classical riffs are where it's at for this though, and I'm not too good at scales and such...I suppose we can see what the scene calls for?

I think classical (or similar) is probably the way to go as well - and wouldn't it be fabulous if someone/a few someones could contribute original compositions to the project... if that's possible?

Also, I was thinking this - if we go with the green light on a chapter/scene, should we take Tolkien's words, word for word, and not change any dialogue? I am for this, as we all as die hard's know the Book shouldn't be changed. It wouldn't be hard to not change it, if we only did a section at a time, if that is what we did.

One more question, for now - How are we going to incorporate the "Frodo said.", etc. into the dialogue? Do you know what I mean? For example Frodo speaks, and then in the book it says "Frodo said" to let the audience know who just spoke to avoid confusion. I suppose with actual voices it may not be hard to tell but to some it may.

Certainly I would prefer to stay as close to the original as possible, changing only those things (like "Frodo said") which would be awkward or redundant in this format. I would much rather see each character given a recognisable enough voice, than to hear "Frodo said"'s all over the place. The only other instance I can think of where deviation from the text would be the most sensible route is where sounds are described, as it would be far more intuitive and make the best use of the medium if we provided the sound itself. Other than this, why not stick to the text?

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

We can just get started, though - record one scene (Shadow of the Past again comes to mind) for which we already have enough actors and hope more come on board after seeing what is possible.

I'm all for that (the starting point being out for debate). If we already start out being perfectionist, I fear we won't ever arrive somewhere. I don't see a problem with re-recording some scenes if we come to the conclusion that a change made elsewhere requires a change in recorded material.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Seeing that you're the oldest person to show interest in the project, are we to assume you volunteer?

I'll take everything that Gwath leaves for me.

Originally Posted by Rikae

How about music? Are there any composers lurking around who are interested in lending their skills to this project? *nudge, nudge*

Hmmm, but composing is one thing, recording another. I'm not sure I like the idea of computer-generated background music. [/wetblanket]
Do we really actually need so much background music? I mean, won't it distract from the dialogue too much?

Originally Posted by Nerwen

Re: Skype– good for cheap long distance calls, but not for recording. You get weird delays and distortion.

Hmm, that's what I was concerned about. We should just try it, and if it doesn't work, we'll have to figure out something else.

Originally Posted by Matthew

Also, I was thinking this - if we go with the green light on a chapter/scene, should we take Tolkien's words, word for word, and not change any dialogue? I am for this, as we all as die hard's know the Book shouldn't be changed. It wouldn't be hard to not change it, if we only did a section at a time, if that is what we did.

Originally Posted by Rikae

Certainly I would prefer to stay as close to the original as possible, changing only those things (like "Frodo said") which would be awkward or redundant in this format. I would much rather see each character given a recognisable enough voice, than to hear "Frodo said"'s all over the place. The only other instance I can think of where deviation from the text would be the most sensible route is where sounds are described, as it would be far more intuitive and make the best use of the medium if we provided the sound itself. Other than this, why not stick to the text?

I, too, think we should only change something when it's necessary. Where there is dialogue provided, I see no general reason to change a thing. But what about the narrative sections? I don't think it's a good idea to leave them as they are - we'd have the narrator talking half of the time! I think we should use the narrator sparingly, and instead try to work the narrative sections into dialogue. If we do this, however, the writing will become a serious and probably exhausting task.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Hmmm, but composing is one thing, recording another. I'm not sure I like the idea of computer-generated background music. [/wetblanket]
Do we really actually need so much background music? I mean, won't it distract from the dialogue too much?

I don't think it will detract if we use it wisely, but enhance. You're right - computer generated music sucks - but we could possibly get together a small band of musicians among us to lay down tracks on top of one another, which could work out nicely.

If we do this, however, the writing will become a serious and probably exhausting task.

You have my keyboard!
However, I favor primarily focusing on keeping the narrative scenes largely intact, or shortening them, rather than working them into the dialogue. The latter technique tends to sound cheesy if it's overused, at least to my ear...

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Rikae

However, I think primarily focusing on keeping the narrative scenes largely intact, or shortening them, rather than working them into the dialogue. The latter technique tends to sound cheesy if it's overused, at least to my ear...

I agree, I would like to keep most of the narration where it is and only cut it down when necessary.

About the background music, I meant mainly for in between scenes, not over dialogue, really...if we use it wisely (and sparingly), like Rikae said, it could be nice...for example, a transition into another scene could be cued up with some bg music for a couple of seconds, maybe with the narrator speaking over it.

The only words we would have to change, as mentioned, would be words that signify sounds, in which we have to try and produce that sound - saying it would be quite bad for this medium, and I'm sure all would agree on that!

[MatthewM]

Would it perhaps be easier to do a single chapter at first? I'm for recruiting and casting and all, like I said, but if numbers were an issue we could not get past there are some chapters we could do in which not every member of The Fellowship speaks (in Book II).

[TheGreatElvenWarrior]

We could start with the opening of FotR and work from there... We could figure out the kinks (We wanted to do a radio program, right?) and even if it doesn't get aired, then we could still have a good script, besides it would be fun!

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Rikae

However, I favor primarily focusing on keeping the narrative scenes largely intact, or shortening them, rather than working them into the dialogue. The latter technique tends to sound cheesy if it's overused, at least to my ear...

Originally Posted by Matthew

I agree, I would like to keep most of the narration where it is and only cut it down when necessary.

But wouldn't this move us farther away from a radio adaptation and closer towards an audio book?

[Thinlómien]

I read through this thread and decided I might be after all interested. I have some experience in acting, like it a lot and dare to sound silly. (But as a downside I can't stand hearing my recorded voice... am I in the wrong place?) And I do not know who on earth do you want to be played by a childish female voice with a Finnish accent. (If not anything else, I would like to take the challenge, and could certainly commit to, being a random Orc. )

Well, considering accents, I do not think anyone should change theirs a lot in order to do their role better, it's probably going to sound only silly.

I will notify Nogrod of this project - I think he might very well be interested and he'd be one of those people we'd need: a middle-aged male voice (but he has a Finnish accent too ) and a person interested in composing.

Hmmm... I think we should use different accents to make differences. Like, if you decide that Finnish accent sounds weird we Finns could play people that are different in some way or from a certain place so that their origin/difference is highlighted. But on the other hand, I think I sound like we had some very extraordinary and strong accents, which I don't think we have...

Originally Posted by Legate

One note concerning the male/female voices. I think it's going to become soon obvious that there are far more female voice actors than there are female characters in LotR (not very surprising, as there are only two or maybe three who have more than a few lines). It would probably sound strange for a female to dub Gandalf (although if she were good, even that would be possible), but I think the Hobbits' voices and some Elves could be spoken by female voices with no problem. As well as the narrator, eventually.

I agree with everything said here.

And I also agree with whoever it was who said that we need some sound samples when it's time for that...

[Rikae]

Lommy, good to see you on board! I hope Nogrod can be enticed to join the project as well.

As for Finnish accents, I'll have to hear one before I give an opinion. I can say that Mac's very slight German accent sounds pretty good on the Witch-King (note - I'm not saying I agree with the theory discussed elsewhere on the 'downs regarding the word "Nazgul".) I think he could also play a quite decent Aragorn with some practice (and a downplayed accent). I think subtle accents aren't really a problem and could even be an advantage, depending on the role. Actually, although I haven't heard it, I wonder whether Finnish accents might sound good for Elves...

A thought - what does everyone think about perhaps forming an LJ community for discussion of this project? It might be a somewhat easier format to deal with than an increasingly long BD thread, and would facilitate voice post "auditions". We could also exchange Skype information there in a semi-private setting...

Originally Posted by Mac the Witch King

But wouldn't this move us farther away from a radio adaptation and closer towards an audio book?

Maybe, but I personally wouldn't worry much about whether it falls fully into the genre, and worry more about the overall quality - about our ability to create a sense of Middle-Earth through sound. The fact that we'll have actors, sound effects and music already takes it out of the "audio-book" category, as does any deviation from or editing of the text... I'm worried that if we try to force descriptions into the dialogue, the result will seem clunky and artificial (people don't generally describe their surroundings to one another, after all). Still this sort of overall-vision question might be easier to agree on when it comes to specific writing issues, I suppose.

[Macalaure]

Originally Posted by Lommy

I read through this thread and decided I might be after all interested.

All help welcome.

Originally Posted by Lommy

Well, considering accents, I do not think anyone should change theirs a lot in order to do their role better, it's probably going to sound only silly.

I agree. Considering the international cast that we're likely to have, I think we will simply have to live with accents - just as long as they aren't too thick, but I doubt we will face many of those here on the Downs.

Originally Posted by Rikae

A thought - what does everyone think about perhaps forming an LJ community for discussion of this project?

It would be practical, yes, but wouldn't it also remove us from the Downs community and maybe discourage the much-needed participation of people?

Originally Posted by Rikae

I'm worried that if we try to force descriptions into the dialogue, the result will seem clunky and artificial (people don't generally describe their surroundings to one another, after all). Still this sort of overall-vision question might be easier to agree on when it comes to specific writing issues, I suppose.

That's true. The descriptions will probably have to be cut down significantly... I think we have to somehow make them "flow" into the atmosphere of the respective scene. This is where sound effects might be crucial.
However, just take a look at the first page of "A long-expected party", where the narrator tells us about the rumours around Bilbo Baggins. This feels to me like it should be made into dialogue and fitted into one of the following scenes instead of being narrated. You're right, many decisions will have to be made when the issue is at hand, but I think we also need a sort of overall vision so that in the end we have something that looks like a coherent whole. But probably this will just emerge naturally once we really started.

[Gwathagor]

Tolkien based Quenya in part on the Finnish language. I don't know what a Finnish accent sounds like, but I would laugh if we decided to cast the Finns as Elves.

[Aganzir]

Don't know what a Finnish accent sounds like? Here's our Prime Minister, who is a good example of a Finn speaking English. They seem to be so ashamed of him that they have named him the PM of Sweden.

I don't think any of us Finns here speak so badly, though.

[Thinlómien]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

Tolkien based Quenya in part on the Finnish language. I don't know what a Finnish accent sounds like, but I would laugh if we decided to cast the Finns as Elves.

Okay, maybe I just have to record my speech a little then. In short, Finnish accent sounds flat and silly. If any of you watches F1 you must have noticed how Häkkinen and Räikkönen speak... But I daresay I and Nogrod sound much less horrible.

And as to composing and Elvish voices, I, Agan and Greenie toyed with the idea that we could compose and perform the A Elbereth Gilthoniel -song, if others think that would be cool.

edit: xed with Agan - too funny

[Gwathagor]

That news channel has cool theme music.

Ok, interesting accent.

[Eönwë]

I've been away for the week, but there, I've returned.

Yes, I'll be willing to do this (If my microphone doesn't die on me).



PS. What would Tom Bombadil's voice sound like? Young or Old, Tired or lively, etc?

edit: I would probably say quite childish, but strong

[Azaelia of Willowbottom]

I'm just officially putting myself out there as an option for a voice. I'm a student actress, so I know a bit about using my voice and creating a character and so on. However, I sound extremely young, so if you need yet another young-sounding female voice (this time with a general, nondescript American accent--nothing noticeably identifiable to a single area).

I won't be able to send in a sample until I get home for the summer (a little over a month away). I hope that won't be too late.

[MatthewM]

This is awesome to see so many people now on board! I knew we would catch some fire here. Anybody that you think can and will help us out is welcome.

Thinlómien- all your ideas sound great, keep them coming. Does this Nogrod character know how to record? Because Mac, Rikae, and myself have not the slightest clue on the technical part of things.

I have some acting experience and I am banking on voicing Boromir. I will, of course, give a sample through whatever medium we choose to go with. I'm just waiting for nose to heal fully as I had my deviated septum corrected two weeks ago.

With the narration thing- it does seem like we can figure this out once the writing starts. I'm sure with dedication this will flow.

Accents- I see no big deal in differing accents as long as they aren't hard to decipher. Finnish accents are fine! I also could see a certain accent, such as Finnish, working well with the Elves. At least one of the strongholds- Rivendell or Lorien. I'm American, so I don't really know how to describe my voice in terms of a distinct heritage like Europeans can. You'll see in the near future.

Oh and...what is LJ?

[Gwathagor]

LJ = LiveJournal

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Gwathagor

LJ = LiveJournal

Thank you Sir Gwathagor

[Gwathagor]

Sir Gwathagor..... Heh heh. Yeah, that's right. I'm SIR Gwathagor.

[MatthewM]

Hey now, I was just being friendly, I take the Sir back! How about ... peasant?

Ok off topic, that was the last time.

[Gwathagor]

I liked it. "Sir Gwathagor" had a good ring to it.


Gwathagor has a fair amount of acting experience as well, but his voice sounds weird on tape. Good luck finding a part for him...of course, if he plays everyone, than nobody will notice that he sounds different. Maybe we should all record ourselves reading bits from the Book and post links to the recordings up here?


Anyway.

We have to figure out what format we'll use and how it'll work - whether Skype or something else. I think this should happen first, because the whole project depends on this, and on whether it's feasible.

Then we need to choose a passage to record - this might depend on what actors we have, or we might be able to recruit. Then we'll adapt it, write out a script.

And then choose the actors.

Then we actually have to make it happen. Hard part.

A lot of these things could happen simultaneously, but I thought it would be useful just to review our various objectives, to give us a general sense of order and direction.

-SIR

[Nogrod]

Aha! Don't forget me!

I hadn't noticed the whole thread. We had some similar thoughts two years ago with Farael but it never kind of materialised... So I'm definitively interested.

I try to read this through tomorrow and will thron in my five cents.

Great.

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by Thinlómien

If any of you watches F1 you must have noticed how Häkkinen and Räikkönen speak... But I daresay I and Nogrod sound much less horrible.

I take your Hakkinen and raise it with Nigel Mansell..... actually I am always impressed by the English skills of sportsmen and wonder how many of our lot would cope away from their native tongue... which is already seemingly a struggle for so many. .

But to save this being totally OT, due ot my lack of time and technical competence I will un-bag galadriel ( from the last time this was suggested) so you will miss out on my Cate Blanchett/ Charlotte Green impersonation... but bon chance

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Mithalwen

But to save this being totally OT, due ot my lack of time and technical competence I will un-bag galadriel ( from the last time this was suggested) so you will miss out on my Cate Blanchett/ Charlotte Green impersonation... but bon chance

Come on... imagine it... "The Lord of the Rings - The Ring Goes South" by the Barrow-Downs community- renowned Tolkien enthuisiasts!

Alright or something of that sort. Anyway if you reconsider, let us know.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by MatthewM

Does this Nogrod character know how to record? Because Mac, Rikae, and myself have not the slightest clue on the technical part of things.

I'm no professional but I do know a thing or a two as I do recordings here at my home with an audio software program - mainly music but we have experimented with other stuff as well (with Lommy and Greenie that is).

And I don't think skype is the answer to our problem.

Something I think we might try out first.

Let's decide on a short scene or a part of a scene - let's say one page or two - where we have several characters speaking and some narration and then deal the roles. Then everyone involved records her/his part with any audio device which creates a digital recording ie. one that can be sent via e-mail. You should not worry about the "silences" between what your character says, just record the lines your character has one after another. I will then combine the audio files in the mixer unit of my sofware, cut them and organise them to follow each other in the way they should be.

I can then do some limited number of tricks with the tracks (yes, I'm going to make every one person's lines into one track in the final composition) like use an equalisator to add more bass or treble to the voice, add echo or pan the tracks coming from left, right or center etc.

One thing we might also consider would be testing with different settings for voices. If you send me a clip of your voice reading a part of the text I could make a few different-sounding versions of it so that you could then decide yourself which sounds the best (even if my software has limited possibilities to handle voices they still are varied enough to produce quite different sounding voices). This might also be one way of dealing with the problem of there being comparatively more females participating in this than there are female roles in the book.

So that's the first idea that comes to my mind. What do you think?

[Rikae]

I fear that wouldn't work from an acting standpoint - none of us are professional actors, and even they don't attempt to read their lines in total isolation. There will be no sense of the tone of the other characters' readings at all.

[Macalaure]

From the acting standpoint it might be a problem, but it is very good to know that we are getting somewhere in the technical department. You recorded music, Nogrod? That's very good!

Here's a (perhaps silly) suggestion: Would it be possible to combine Nogrod's approach with Skype? The actors could connect via Skype and hear each other play, being able to interact, but each could record his own voice by himself and send it to Noggie, who pastes them together again. This sounds kind of complicated, but, under the assumption that Skype and the used recording program function together, it could maybe work.

[Rikae]

Originally Posted by Macalaure

Here's a (perhaps silly) suggestion: Would it be possible to combine Nogrod's approach with Skype? The actors could connect via Skype and hear each other play, being able to interact, but each could record his own voice by himself and send it to Noggie, who pastes them together again. This sounds kind of complicated, but, under the assumption that Skype and the used recording program function together, it could maybe work.

It seems worth a try to me. The one problem I can foresee is that the other actors' voices from Skype might bleed through onto the individual track, but that can probably be minimized by fiddling with various settings and using good quality headphones, and perhaps Nogrod can cover up any that remains? It sounds pretty close to what's done to create the voice tracks for cartoons or record music in a studio, actually, as far as I know. Perhaps we should start looking for appropriate recording software, and have a trial run? Free software would be ideal, since quite a few (the majority?) of us are starving students...

[Mithalwen]

Originally Posted by MatthewM

Anyway if you reconsider, let us know.

Well I was being noble since there are a glut of women who seem better qualified and who have the technology... *sighs*

[Oddwen]

A recording program I've found and used is Audacity - it works for Mac and Windows, and it's freeeeeee!

It requires a separate download if you want to export as mp3, but I guess .wav is the more common format anyway.

[Nogrod]

There are pro's and con's in both ways of doing it. If everyone records her/his stuff alone one can make as many re-recordings one wishes and then send me only the "perfect takes" but it surely is harder to act without feedback. Although that only applies to dialogue-intensive scenes. With scenes including lots of narration or lengthy monologues it's a different thing of course.

Though there should be a fun of it's own in reading out aloud with others! And that should be a factor to remember... more fun!

So I do think Mac's idea could be worth trying. Still everyone should produce her/his own recording of the joint session as I can then handle the "tracks" separately adding possible effects or manipulate the frequencies individually (adding more bottom to the male voices fex.) and to pan the speakers around the audiospace.

I'm not too worried about other voices coming through from others speaking as I can dim them down (cut them silent altogether) everytime the one whose track it is doesn't speak. Also there should be no "compatibility problem" between skype and my audio studio program either if you can just record your part of the session and send them to me in a normal audiofile format.

Originally Posted by Oddwen

It requires a separate download if you want to export as mp3, but I guess .wav is the more common format anyway.

It would be better if we can use unpacked audiofiles (for example .wav -files) and not pack or transform them into any mp3 or atrac -formats because they also reduce the quality of the recording - and because we need to combine different recordings then the better the quality of the originals are the more flexibility we have at the later stages. My colleague has a program with which one can cut those low- and hihg pitch hums and hisses and I could lend it from him to level the recordings as people will have different microphones and different backround noises anyway.

It is most obvious but let it be said still. When you do a recording try to minimise any background noise (one thing people easily forget is to shut out the air conditioning and stuff like that - we don't normally pay attention to that noise but when recorded it really will be heard). Also I'd suggest that you send me only the "raw material" even if you happened to have some software with which you could enhance the eq or add some echo. The end result is better when all the effects are applied and all mixing is done with one device. Also adding "effects" tends to increase all the humming and hissing which we wish to avoid.

But this looks interesting inded! I'm all in!

[MatthewM]

Originally Posted by Nogrod

Let's decide on a short scene or a part of a scene - let's say one page or two - where we have several characters speaking and some narration and then deal the roles. Then everyone involved records her/his part with any audio device which creates a digital recording ie. one that can be sent via e-mail. You should not worry about the "silences" between what your character says, just record the lines your character has one after another. I will then combine the audio files in the mixer unit of my sofware, cut them and organise them to follow each other in the way they should be.

So that's the first idea that comes to my mind. What do you think?

Nogrod- I really like this idea. I'm willing to do either a joint session or indiviual sessions. I do understand what the others are saying though, so I'm up for giving both methods a try.

Is an MP3 completely out of the question? Because I have a program, Music Maker 2004, and it records audio sounds but the only way to send them is if I convert them to MP3. I would like to send you a sample Nogrod, so you get an idea of my voice.

May I suggest a page to read from? I'm going to be recording myself as Boromir and I will be reading from page 289, during the chapter The Ring Goes South. Almost every member of the Company speaks here, as it is the debate on whether or not to go into Moria. Maybe this would be a good scene to practice on the program we choose?

Nogrod- what e-mail address shall I send this to?

[MatthewM]

Correction! I can send it as a wave, I believe.

[MatthewM]

Rikae and Mac, I have sent you an e-mail with samples. Incase you hadn't checked your mail before coming to the post.

[Nogrod]

Originally Posted by MatthewM

Nogrod- what e-mail address shall I send this to?

Do not use my email given in the user CP as it has really limited space and seems to be always full - and audiofiles are big.

You should use my gmail account instead. I will PM it to those who have actively discussed matters here lately starting now with Matthew, Rikae, Mac, Oddwen and Legate...